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Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
Assuming you are speaking of mounting the scope with the reticle cant free -
you want to level the rifle and while mainting the rifle's position, level the scope. This should result in a levelled reticle. Verify using a plumb line at 50-100 yards....
Assuming you are speaking of mounting the scope with the reticle cant free -
you want to level the rifle and while mainting the rifle's position, level the scope. This should result in a levelled reticle. Verify using a plumb line at 50-100 yards....
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
What you do is go to an Auto Parts store and get a set of Feeler Gauges with removable gauges.
The top of the base is flat the bottom of the scope is flat, put the gauges under the scope and then slide them out and continue to tighten. You can add and remove gauges to adjust the height required.
Forget plumb lines, walls, etc... the gauges are level and flat.
What you do is go to an Auto Parts store and get a set of Feeler Gauges with removable gauges.
The top of the base is flat the bottom of the scope is flat, put the gauges under the scope and then slide them out and continue to tighten. You can add and remove gauges to adjust the height required.
Forget plumb lines, walls, etc... the gauges are level and flat.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
LOL my scopes are all 20 MOA off level
I have a bubble level I put on the badger base to get the rifle level. Then mount scope and use level on the elevation turret.
If the reticle is off and tilted to the side, the erector system is still tracking with the level of the scope... if it was off a lot and was like an X it would still move up vertically not over to the 2:00 position if you raised the turret.
If you use clicks it's no big deal it's if you use hold over that will screw you with a canted reticle. If the reticle is an X and you held over you would move the POI to the left as well as up.
but if you used you clicks up the required amount and held dead on you would hit center target (if all else is ok)
I went into great detail on this in a post earlier.
Some people shoot a rifle canted by design... Just make sure the scope is mounted with the reticle horizontal to match the cant, and you bubble level is also canted to match (to insure consistent cant)
Short answer I use a bubble level to make the rifle and scope match. My reticles just happen to be correct.
LOL my scopes are all 20 MOA off level
I have a bubble level I put on the badger base to get the rifle level. Then mount scope and use level on the elevation turret.
If the reticle is off and tilted to the side, the erector system is still tracking with the level of the scope... if it was off a lot and was like an X it would still move up vertically not over to the 2:00 position if you raised the turret.
If you use clicks it's no big deal it's if you use hold over that will screw you with a canted reticle. If the reticle is an X and you held over you would move the POI to the left as well as up.
but if you used you clicks up the required amount and held dead on you would hit center target (if all else is ok)
I went into great detail on this in a post earlier.
Some people shoot a rifle canted by design... Just make sure the scope is mounted with the reticle horizontal to match the cant, and you bubble level is also canted to match (to insure consistent cant)
Short answer I use a bubble level to make the rifle and scope match. My reticles just happen to be correct.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
LL; interesting trick with the feelers. It assumes the external flats are actually in alignment with the reticle wires. I'm gonna try it.
Greg
LL; interesting trick with the feelers. It assumes the external flats are actually in alignment with the reticle wires. I'm gonna try it.
Greg
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
LowLight.
Nice technique, using a feeler gage to align the scope housing with the base. I always suspected my scope was not quite plumb. The feeler gage technique revealed .005 difference between the left and right side. It was a simple matter to make the scope housing paralell with the base. I have Badger base and rings with a Leupold MK IV so I was reasonably confident the base was aligned with the rifle and the scope's reticle aligned with the scope housing.
The Sedway Reticle Leveler just doesn't have the fidelity to get it perfect. It seems to be in the same class as a bore sight, gets one in the game, but fine tuning is still required.
Thanks for the info. I've been lurking for a while and I joined to respond to your post.
Hello to everyone,
Dave
LowLight.
Nice technique, using a feeler gage to align the scope housing with the base. I always suspected my scope was not quite plumb. The feeler gage technique revealed .005 difference between the left and right side. It was a simple matter to make the scope housing paralell with the base. I have Badger base and rings with a Leupold MK IV so I was reasonably confident the base was aligned with the rifle and the scope's reticle aligned with the scope housing.
The Sedway Reticle Leveler just doesn't have the fidelity to get it perfect. It seems to be in the same class as a bore sight, gets one in the game, but fine tuning is still required.
Thanks for the info. I've been lurking for a while and I joined to respond to your post.
Hello to everyone,
Dave
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
Cast off and cant (the clockwise or counterclockwise) rotation the gun with the horizon is common to all shooters. Trap shooters really go crazy. Even if you get the scope perfectly perpendicular, unless you have an adjustable pad, you will cant it again on sighting. There are many levels out there now, and instead of re-writing-check out www.riflescopes.com website as there is an article(s) in depth on this very topic.
Cast off and cant (the clockwise or counterclockwise) rotation the gun with the horizon is common to all shooters. Trap shooters really go crazy. Even if you get the scope perfectly perpendicular, unless you have an adjustable pad, you will cant it again on sighting. There are many levels out there now, and instead of re-writing-check out www.riflescopes.com website as there is an article(s) in depth on this very topic.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Greg Langelius *:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> LL; interesting trick with the feelers. It assumes the external flats are actually in alignment with the reticle wires. I'm gonna try it.
Greg </span></div></div>Yeah, my thoughts zactly,,,,,,assumes the reticles are not canted.
Don't get me wrong, it takes me at least an hour or so to mount a scope.
Anything I can do to cut that, and make sure their dead nuts..is fine by me. :beer:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Greg Langelius *:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> LL; interesting trick with the feelers. It assumes the external flats are actually in alignment with the reticle wires. I'm gonna try it.
Greg </span></div></div>Yeah, my thoughts zactly,,,,,,assumes the reticles are not canted.
Don't get me wrong, it takes me at least an hour or so to mount a scope.
Anything I can do to cut that, and make sure their dead nuts..is fine by me. :beer:
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Lowlight:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> What you do is go to an Auto Parts store and get a set of Feeler Gauges with removable gauges.
The top of the base is flat the bottom of the scope is flat, put the gauges under the scope and then slide them out and continue to tighten. You can add and remove gauges to adjust the height required.
Forget plumb lines, walls, etc... the gauges are level and flat. </span></div></div>Frank, mind telling us WHAT set is this thick?
Got a make/part #??.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Lowlight:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> What you do is go to an Auto Parts store and get a set of Feeler Gauges with removable gauges.
The top of the base is flat the bottom of the scope is flat, put the gauges under the scope and then slide them out and continue to tighten. You can add and remove gauges to adjust the height required.
Forget plumb lines, walls, etc... the gauges are level and flat. </span></div></div>Frank, mind telling us WHAT set is this thick?
Got a make/part #??.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
Shoes, we went into an Auto Zone bought two sets of gauges, cost us $24.
They are 1/2" each. as well you can take them apart to interchange the stuff.
Terry, it's why I get paid the big dollars. :firedevil:
Shoes, we went into an Auto Zone bought two sets of gauges, cost us $24.
They are 1/2" each. as well you can take them apart to interchange the stuff.
Terry, it's why I get paid the big dollars. :firedevil:
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Lowlight:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> Shoes, we went into an Auto Zone bought two sets of gauges, cost us $24.
They are 1/2" each. as well you can take them apart to interchange the stuff.
Terry, it's why I get paid the big dollars. :firedevil: </span></div></div>Thanks, yeah, I know...that's why you can buy 2 SET's.
$24.00..........WOW.
I assume you do not have to concern yourself w/ canted reticles.
Of course you KNOW this set up, goes against ALL pre-concieved wisdom of mounting scopes....
Have you checked your Vertical tracking at 100 ater doing this set up?.
Up n Down......
Assume so....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Lowlight:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> Shoes, we went into an Auto Zone bought two sets of gauges, cost us $24.
They are 1/2" each. as well you can take them apart to interchange the stuff.
Terry, it's why I get paid the big dollars. :firedevil: </span></div></div>Thanks, yeah, I know...that's why you can buy 2 SET's.
$24.00..........WOW.
I assume you do not have to concern yourself w/ canted reticles.
Of course you KNOW this set up, goes against ALL pre-concieved wisdom of mounting scopes....
Have you checked your Vertical tracking at 100 ater doing this set up?.
Up n Down......
Assume so....
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
Shoes, that is $24 for 2, they are about $11.50 each.
Canted reticles what is that? :beer:
I think we have mounted approximately 2 dozen scopes this way, checked another 2 dozen for level as well. We can do it inside the Team House without having to "line" anything up.
Shoes, that is $24 for 2, they are about $11.50 each.
Canted reticles what is that? :beer:
I think we have mounted approximately 2 dozen scopes this way, checked another 2 dozen for level as well. We can do it inside the Team House without having to "line" anything up.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
"This method is actually in the Nightforce manual I believe, you know that book that comes with scopes you need to read in order to operate them at maximum effeciency. "
LL, Never had a scope that had instructions on HOW to mount....esp w/ feeler gages.
Of course when you buy BSA's, wadda ya spect?.
"This method is actually in the Nightforce manual I believe, you know that book that comes with scopes you need to read in order to operate them at maximum effeciency. "
LL, Never had a scope that had instructions on HOW to mount....esp w/ feeler gages.
Of course when you buy BSA's, wadda ya spect?.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
Lowlight. that is genious. I normally use a bubble level on the base usually the level on a Segway reticle leveler and then a second level on the elevation turret. The feeler gauge should be a bit more accurate though. Unless you got stuck with a canted reticle somehow.
Lowlight. that is genious. I normally use a bubble level on the base usually the level on a Segway reticle leveler and then a second level on the elevation turret. The feeler gauge should be a bit more accurate though. Unless you got stuck with a canted reticle somehow.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
Yo Sinclair sell all sizes of Scope Shims ...
check it out:
http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=H505&type=store
http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=H860&type=store
Yo Sinclair sell all sizes of Scope Shims ...
check it out:
http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=H505&type=store
http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=H860&type=store
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
i cant see anywhere in the manual about this technique...can anyone be more specific about how to use the guages?
I use these: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=6097&s=
Then use a bubble level on the turret and then tighten...real fast.
i cant see anywhere in the manual about this technique...can anyone be more specific about how to use the guages?
I use these: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=6097&s=
Then use a bubble level on the turret and then tighten...real fast.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
We use the Wheeler Engineering reticle level and it works pretty good.
OpticsTalk.com thread
We use the Wheeler Engineering reticle level and it works pretty good.
OpticsTalk.com thread
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
well...I went out to Pepboys and bought the gauges....anyway...they dont line up at all with my original mounting...(I hit 1000yards at Quantico with no windage and holdover at all once before..of course with no wind)
I usually use the EXD from Brownells that makes sure you are mounting according to the bore not a base...
Since it didnt line up, I took everything off and bubbled the base...ITs a Badger clipslotted steel Base on my GAP M40A3
Sure enough the bubble on the level moved from being centered to off to one side a little as you move back...Unless there is a milling issue, the base must have warped during install or torqueing....It was the same with my other ROCK rifle with standard Badger base...
Gauge idea is nice but not necessarily perfect if there are any imperfections with the scope base.
well...I went out to Pepboys and bought the gauges....anyway...they dont line up at all with my original mounting...(I hit 1000yards at Quantico with no windage and holdover at all once before..of course with no wind)
I usually use the EXD from Brownells that makes sure you are mounting according to the bore not a base...
Since it didnt line up, I took everything off and bubbled the base...ITs a Badger clipslotted steel Base on my GAP M40A3
Sure enough the bubble on the level moved from being centered to off to one side a little as you move back...Unless there is a milling issue, the base must have warped during install or torqueing....It was the same with my other ROCK rifle with standard Badger base...
Gauge idea is nice but not necessarily perfect if there are any imperfections with the scope base.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
1) USO bubble level on the base
2) $4.97 Stanley level from wal-mart
3) set up target frame at 100 yds and shim so it is perfectly level
4) level up rifle via the base level
5) turn scope until crosshairs are coincident with horizontal top of your target frame
6) tighten ring caps down
7) re-check for level and adjust scope if tighening caps made it go out of level
This of course assumes your reticle is not canted. Then your are SOL anyway.
CST, my scope bases have no imperfections that would effect level measurements with shims as desribed. Not sure what base you are using.
1) USO bubble level on the base
2) $4.97 Stanley level from wal-mart
3) set up target frame at 100 yds and shim so it is perfectly level
4) level up rifle via the base level
5) turn scope until crosshairs are coincident with horizontal top of your target frame
6) tighten ring caps down
7) re-check for level and adjust scope if tighening caps made it go out of level
This of course assumes your reticle is not canted. Then your are SOL anyway.
CST, my scope bases have no imperfections that would effect level measurements with shims as desribed. Not sure what base you are using.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
Hi everyone,
Anyone have an idea of how to check if you have the Leupold Quick release rings and base?
Regards
Myles
Hi everyone,
Anyone have an idea of how to check if you have the Leupold Quick release rings and base?
Regards
Myles
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
I just use the level that is inside my scope, and a level on the receiver. Works great.
I just use the level that is inside my scope, and a level on the receiver. Works great.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Kinsman:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> I just use the level that is inside my scope, and a level on the receiver. Works great. </span></div></div>bragger!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Kinsman:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> I just use the level that is inside my scope, and a level on the receiver. Works great. </span></div></div>bragger!
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
What scope (other than SA) has the level inside?
What scope (other than SA) has the level inside?
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
I was at the lake one day, when I realised I had the biggest level in the world right in front of me. Leveled the gun in a vise and lined up the horizontal line with the water. Worked great! (if you are ever in a pinch without all your equipment)
I was at the lake one day, when I realised I had the biggest level in the world right in front of me. Leveled the gun in a vise and lined up the horizontal line with the water. Worked great! (if you are ever in a pinch without all your equipment)
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was at the lake one day, when I realised I had the biggest level in the world right in front of me </div></div>Yea, thats great but the world is not flat
Thats actualy a great idea
Kirk R
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was at the lake one day, when I realised I had the biggest level in the world right in front of me </div></div>Yea, thats great but the world is not flat
Thats actualy a great idea
Kirk R
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
Using the top of a ring won't work.....
.....because, how do you know the top of the ring is level to the reciever of the rifle?
What if you tightened one side of the ring more than the other? What if you reciever is not level?
I guess we could what-if it to death....huh?
Doing any and or all of these methods is all we can do.
Using the top of a ring won't work.....
.....because, how do you know the top of the ring is level to the reciever of the rifle?
What if you tightened one side of the ring more than the other? What if you reciever is not level?
I guess we could what-if it to death....huh?
Doing any and or all of these methods is all we can do.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
WOW
Some amazingly anal answers. Some quite ingenious. Since goin to vertically split rings I gonna say its a whole lot easier to avoid the overtightenin pull to one side or the other while tightenin the rings on the scope. I can use the scribe line in the scope as a aimin point between the split.
Yeah, as precise as my reloadin techiques... :bandit:
WOW
Some amazingly anal answers. Some quite ingenious. Since goin to vertically split rings I gonna say its a whole lot easier to avoid the overtightenin pull to one side or the other while tightenin the rings on the scope. I can use the scribe line in the scope as a aimin point between the split.
Yeah, as precise as my reloadin techiques... :bandit:
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
Put level on scope base for side to side level of rifle. Put level on elevation turret top to level errector. That way errector moves straight up and down with bore. Thats it.
Put level on scope base for side to side level of rifle. Put level on elevation turret top to level errector. That way errector moves straight up and down with bore. Thats it.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Greg Langelius *:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> LL; interesting trick with the feelers. It assumes the external flats are actually in alignment with the reticle wires. I'm gonna try it.
Greg </span></div></div>+1 On the assumption that the flat is aligned with the reticle... Worked with my SS10x42m, but, not with my Leupolds... 8.5-25x50mm is canted. 4.5-14x50 is close enough, but, still off a hair... I think I will continue with the base level and plumb bob method...
BTW Shoes.. That 4.5-14x I got from you is near perfect.. I centered the wheels and mounted the scope and it was at zero.. I did not have to touch it..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Greg Langelius *:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> LL; interesting trick with the feelers. It assumes the external flats are actually in alignment with the reticle wires. I'm gonna try it.
Greg </span></div></div>+1 On the assumption that the flat is aligned with the reticle... Worked with my SS10x42m, but, not with my Leupolds... 8.5-25x50mm is canted. 4.5-14x50 is close enough, but, still off a hair... I think I will continue with the base level and plumb bob method...
BTW Shoes.. That 4.5-14x I got from you is near perfect.. I centered the wheels and mounted the scope and it was at zero.. I did not have to touch it..
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Tactical:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> Put level on scope base for side to side level of rifle. Put level on elevation turret top to level errector. That way errector moves straight up and down with bore. Thats it. </span></div></div>Mike, are we assuming the Erector is also straight?
Me thinks maybe so.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Tactical:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> Put level on scope base for side to side level of rifle. Put level on elevation turret top to level errector. That way errector moves straight up and down with bore. Thats it. </span></div></div>Mike, are we assuming the Erector is also straight?
Me thinks maybe so.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
OK reticle could be turned 33 degrees and wwould not matter on erector tracking if erector was going straight up and down. Thats what determines if the scope adjusts up and down correctly.
Lets say you have acircle dot reticle you have no refrence maks on reticle to align.
Now if we are talking horus or hold over reticles you need to align reticle not erector and if erector and reticle are not in alignment you are FFFF'DDDDDDD!
OK reticle could be turned 33 degrees and wwould not matter on erector tracking if erector was going straight up and down. Thats what determines if the scope adjusts up and down correctly.
Lets say you have acircle dot reticle you have no refrence maks on reticle to align.
Now if we are talking horus or hold over reticles you need to align reticle not erector and if erector and reticle are not in alignment you are FFFF'DDDDDDD!
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
"Thats what determines if the scope adjusts up and down correctly."
I understand, and the likelihood of an erector being NOT straight on a quality scope is unlikely....agreed.
With the other scenarios, you are limited to base, and erector period.......gotcha.
"Thats what determines if the scope adjusts up and down correctly."
I understand, and the likelihood of an erector being NOT straight on a quality scope is unlikely....agreed.
With the other scenarios, you are limited to base, and erector period.......gotcha.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by TAZ:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> How does it work? </span></div></div>Looks like it would work great... at least with any scope that you can focus that short..
It would have to work, since it uses a bore dowel to get it centered in the bore and uses gravity to locate center/level...
Exactly what your long range bullet would be subjected to...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by TAZ:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> How does it work? </span></div></div>Looks like it would work great... at least with any scope that you can focus that short..
It would have to work, since it uses a bore dowel to get it centered in the bore and uses gravity to locate center/level...
Exactly what your long range bullet would be subjected to...
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
This has to be the easiest way to do it. I use one everyday here in the shop, take two minutes.
www.mitutoyo.com/catalog/pdf/S-03.pdf
John III
This has to be the easiest way to do it. I use one everyday here in the shop, take two minutes.
www.mitutoyo.com/catalog/pdf/S-03.pdf
John III
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
You do not want to level your scope to the water level if the reticle is off. Making the assumption the reticle is in line with your erector will cause havoc. You can be many inches off when dialing up.
The Erector is what HAS to be mounted in plumb.
Vertical cross hair to a plumb line (string with weight). Then dial all the way up and all the way down .. If the cross tracks to the plumb line you are fine. If the reticle is off it will not track straight up and down. Your POI will move off of plumb and get worse as you dial farther away from where you are sighted in.
You are MUCH better off mounting the scope to the erector being in plumb and having your cross hairs "off".
I'm sure a math wiz can tell you how far off target your POI is from center if the cross hairs are off 2-3 deg. If you are sighted in at 100 yards then dial up to 800 I bet it's more inches than you think.
I doubt you can easily see if your scope is 1 SMOA off in cant. If it's off 1 SMOA and you are sighted in at 100. Then you crank up to 1K you will be off 10" to the side.
Dial you scope down to a turn off bottom, Put in a rest and snug down when the vertical cross hair is parallel to a plumb line (string with weight) .. Now dial all the way up and see if the cross tracks off the line to one side. If the cross is dead on at the bottom and then starts to track off to the side the farther up you crank the elevation then you know your erector and cross hair is not in sync.
This is where a hold over system is so good. The Horus system once zeroed and you know you dope and the reticle is adjusted to the horizon none of this matters because you are not dialing up or down just using hold over/off. Erector system be damned.
If you use clicks than the erector HAS to be plumb.
Best thing is to mount scope so the scope is horizontal and matches the rifle. If it's canted due to the reticle being off, mount it "off". This way your still on target when you dial in your elevation. When you dial in windage THAT will be screwed up, but if you hold off it will be OK.
Bottom line... have a scope that has a reticle that is not canted. and mount it plumb then everything should work right
You do not want to level your scope to the water level if the reticle is off. Making the assumption the reticle is in line with your erector will cause havoc. You can be many inches off when dialing up.
The Erector is what HAS to be mounted in plumb.
Vertical cross hair to a plumb line (string with weight). Then dial all the way up and all the way down .. If the cross tracks to the plumb line you are fine. If the reticle is off it will not track straight up and down. Your POI will move off of plumb and get worse as you dial farther away from where you are sighted in.
You are MUCH better off mounting the scope to the erector being in plumb and having your cross hairs "off".
I'm sure a math wiz can tell you how far off target your POI is from center if the cross hairs are off 2-3 deg. If you are sighted in at 100 yards then dial up to 800 I bet it's more inches than you think.
I doubt you can easily see if your scope is 1 SMOA off in cant. If it's off 1 SMOA and you are sighted in at 100. Then you crank up to 1K you will be off 10" to the side.
Dial you scope down to a turn off bottom, Put in a rest and snug down when the vertical cross hair is parallel to a plumb line (string with weight) .. Now dial all the way up and see if the cross tracks off the line to one side. If the cross is dead on at the bottom and then starts to track off to the side the farther up you crank the elevation then you know your erector and cross hair is not in sync.
This is where a hold over system is so good. The Horus system once zeroed and you know you dope and the reticle is adjusted to the horizon none of this matters because you are not dialing up or down just using hold over/off. Erector system be damned.
If you use clicks than the erector HAS to be plumb.
Best thing is to mount scope so the scope is horizontal and matches the rifle. If it's canted due to the reticle being off, mount it "off". This way your still on target when you dial in your elevation. When you dial in windage THAT will be screwed up, but if you hold off it will be OK.
Bottom line... have a scope that has a reticle that is not canted. and mount it plumb then everything should work right
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is where a hold over system is so good. The Horus system once zeroed and you know you dope and the reticle is adjusted to the horizon none of this matters because you are not dialing up or down just using hold over/off. Erector system be damned.</div></div><span style="font-weight: bold">Bingo!</span> That's another reason I love my Horus reticle!
You also don't have to worry about the accuracy of your elevation clicks, because you aren't using them. The mil marks on the Horus reticle in my U.S.O. are dead on the money - I checked.
The same would be true of the G.A.P.-U.S.O. reticle used for holdovers/holdunders.
John's advice is excellent, though, for those who have to dial. Get the erector vertical, and hold for wind.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is where a hold over system is so good. The Horus system once zeroed and you know you dope and the reticle is adjusted to the horizon none of this matters because you are not dialing up or down just using hold over/off. Erector system be damned.</div></div><span style="font-weight: bold">Bingo!</span> That's another reason I love my Horus reticle!
You also don't have to worry about the accuracy of your elevation clicks, because you aren't using them. The mil marks on the Horus reticle in my U.S.O. are dead on the money - I checked.
The same would be true of the G.A.P.-U.S.O. reticle used for holdovers/holdunders.
John's advice is excellent, though, for those who have to dial. Get the erector vertical, and hold for wind.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
I used the US Optics bubble level with picatinny rail mount to level my rifle, then locked it in position with my pod-lock.
Then I vertically centered the reticle using a plumb line at 100 yards.
I used the US Optics bubble level with picatinny rail mount to level my rifle, then locked it in position with my pod-lock.
Then I vertically centered the reticle using a plumb line at 100 yards.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
Well, as John said, that ensures that your reticle is vertical, but not necessarily the erector system.
Well, as John said, that ensures that your reticle is vertical, but not necessarily the erector system.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Lowlight:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> What you do is go to an Auto Parts store and get a set of Feeler Gauges with removable gauges.
The top of the base is flat the bottom of the scope is flat, put the gauges under the scope and then slide them out and continue to tighten. You can add and remove gauges to adjust the height required.
Forget plumb lines, walls, etc... the gauges are level and flat. </span></div></div>Alrealdy have lots of feeler gauges. Tried it last weekend. Fast,efficient and appears to be accurate. Good call.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Lowlight:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> What you do is go to an Auto Parts store and get a set of Feeler Gauges with removable gauges.
The top of the base is flat the bottom of the scope is flat, put the gauges under the scope and then slide them out and continue to tighten. You can add and remove gauges to adjust the height required.
Forget plumb lines, walls, etc... the gauges are level and flat. </span></div></div>Alrealdy have lots of feeler gauges. Tried it last weekend. Fast,efficient and appears to be accurate. Good call.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
I guess my method is pretty lame to all the ones listed here, since no one mentioned it?
I always leveled a target with a cross hair image and got into my shooting position and then lined my scope cross hairs up on it.
I know that makes the barrel "timing" off by what ever my natural cant is, but seems to work.
I've not shot any of these past 200 yards though (newb to LR) so this is a no-no for accuracy?
QUESTION:
Is it more important for the scope to be level with the "shooter's cant" than to me "timed" to 0 on the barrel and canted when aimed, right?
I guess my method is pretty lame to all the ones listed here, since no one mentioned it?
I always leveled a target with a cross hair image and got into my shooting position and then lined my scope cross hairs up on it.
I know that makes the barrel "timing" off by what ever my natural cant is, but seems to work.
I've not shot any of these past 200 yards though (newb to LR) so this is a no-no for accuracy?
QUESTION:
Is it more important for the scope to be level with the "shooter's cant" than to me "timed" to 0 on the barrel and canted when aimed, right?
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
Hmmmm... no answers. Does that mean it's too stupid to answer or am I the thread killer?
Is there something inheritantly wrong with the level the target method and the cant I mentioned?
Hmmmm... no answers. Does that mean it's too stupid to answer or am I the thread killer?
Is there something inheritantly wrong with the level the target method and the cant I mentioned?
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
I don't require absolute "dead nuts" precision with my stuff being perfectly levelled ... but I can get it VERY close with the method and "tools" I use ... of course, I have to make at least one assumption for my method to work ...
I have the little set of two bubble levels where one is a a simple level with a flat base on it, and the other has a large flat square on one side ... The first level I mentioned sits on the top of your elevation turret, while the other rides on the rails your bolt rides on. The "assumption" is that the rails and the bore are aligned level to each other ... if that's true, then the level that rides them will show you when your rifle is level in the vise. after that, you simply get the first level I mentioned "square" (via eye'ing it) to the perpendicular axis of the bore while sitting atop the elevation turret and "set" the scope in the bottom half of the rings and tighten it down.
Now, this will get you pretty darn close, if not perfect ... and with respect to this method, it's all about the erector being aligned to the bore, not the reticle. Since I don't use the reticle for holdover or wind, I couldn't care less (technically) if my reticle is canted, because I'm always using the intersection of my reticle as my aim point. Further, I (or you) can still use your reticle to range targets, regardless of it's squareness to the bore.
I do wish there was a better way to align all this stuff w/out an elaborate set-up ... but like I said, this method has worked well for me many times, and I have had no problems with it.
I don't require absolute "dead nuts" precision with my stuff being perfectly levelled ... but I can get it VERY close with the method and "tools" I use ... of course, I have to make at least one assumption for my method to work ...
I have the little set of two bubble levels where one is a a simple level with a flat base on it, and the other has a large flat square on one side ... The first level I mentioned sits on the top of your elevation turret, while the other rides on the rails your bolt rides on. The "assumption" is that the rails and the bore are aligned level to each other ... if that's true, then the level that rides them will show you when your rifle is level in the vise. after that, you simply get the first level I mentioned "square" (via eye'ing it) to the perpendicular axis of the bore while sitting atop the elevation turret and "set" the scope in the bottom half of the rings and tighten it down.
Now, this will get you pretty darn close, if not perfect ... and with respect to this method, it's all about the erector being aligned to the bore, not the reticle. Since I don't use the reticle for holdover or wind, I couldn't care less (technically) if my reticle is canted, because I'm always using the intersection of my reticle as my aim point. Further, I (or you) can still use your reticle to range targets, regardless of it's squareness to the bore.
I do wish there was a better way to align all this stuff w/out an elaborate set-up ... but like I said, this method has worked well for me many times, and I have had no problems with it.
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
The best method I found is have GAP mount the scope when you have the rifle built. :firedevil:
Pat
Oh yea if you remove the scope have George build you a new rifle :jesterlol:
The best method I found is have GAP mount the scope when you have the rifle built. :firedevil:
Pat
Oh yea if you remove the scope have George build you a new rifle :jesterlol:
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?
The way I get things level is to uses a good boresight laser. After getting the scope mounted I find the futhest distance I can see red dot and run the elevation turret up and down, if it does not track I make adjustments.
Any thoughts?
Jeff
The way I get things level is to uses a good boresight laser. After getting the scope mounted I find the futhest distance I can see red dot and run the elevation turret up and down, if it does not track I make adjustments.
Any thoughts?
Jeff
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