Rifle Scopes Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

#105
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sirkarma</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Using the top of a ring won't work.....

2004-10-23_144858_L1010503.JPG


.....because, how do you know the top of the ring is level to the reciever of the rifle?

What if you tightened one side of the ring more than the other? What if you reciever is not level?

I guess we could what-if it to death....huh?

Doing any and or all of these methods is all we can do. </div></div>

Where can I get one of those? </div></div>

McMaster Carr
 
#106
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What you do is go to an Auto Parts store and get a set of Feeler Gauges with removable gauges.

The top of the base is flat the bottom of the scope is flat, put the gauges under the scope and then slide them out and continue to tighten. You can add and remove gauges to adjust the height required.

Forget plumb lines, walls, etc... the gauges are level and flat. </div></div>


Seriously, I tried this and for $6 it saved me so much time and money. Genius ! Thanks LL.
 
#108
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

I agree with Groper [[as an addition, Ive found that a scope rarely needs to be mounted level, usually the reticle is not level with the scope body, therefore you need to mount the scope so that it TRACKS plumb and level regardless of its physical orientation.

EXCEPT FOR THIS PART ..... So placing levels on the scope body is ususally a waste of time...]]

I did put a ring mounted level on my scope and spent quite a long time tweaking the scope and the level till it tracked true from 200 thru 1000 yards as I increased elevation. Using that level to double check before each shot has helped a lot. I don't have the high dollar scopes that some here use so maybe that works for them but taking the time to really check the tracking and making sure it's right really pays off when initially setting it up.

Topstrap
 
#109
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

I use a drill bit, the smooth part, between the turret housing part of the tube and the rail. You need a numbered set for the smaller increments in size, but it works quite well.
 
#110
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

Ditto on the feeler gauge method, works great, been doing it for years. Unfortunately, the last scope I did it didn't work on... a Leupold with a canted reticle.
 
#111
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRLars</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We use the Wheeler Engineering reticle level and it works pretty good.

OpticsTalk.com thread</div></div>

Yeah, if you're shooting a Remington. </div></div>Not true. If you have enougth clearence between the scope tube/body and the mount you could lay it on the flat top.
I have done it with a Serbu, Sako, my AR. Just my .02
 
#113
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRLars</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We use the Wheeler Engineering reticle level and it works pretty good.

OpticsTalk.com thread</div></div>

Yeah, if you're shooting a Remington. </div></div>Not true. If you have enougth clearence between the scope tube/body and the mount you could lay it on the flat top.
I have done it with a Serbu, Sako, my AR. Just my .02 </div></div>

Winchesters / Weatherby & others the rails are not easy to deal with, besides I don't trust the remingtons rails are actually good.

Personally I use the levels across the scope base & on the turret on top, will see how it pans out on a Zeiss I mounted last night, check with a string hanging 100yds out I guess today.

Alot good info here - the scope ring cap is not good as pictured obviously.
 
#114
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">after reading thru some of the replies in this thread, i thought id share my very simple method that seems to work a treat for me, and so much simpler than some of the methods previously listed...

1. I place a small spirit level across the picatinny rail of the rifle and get the rifle level on a bench rest or using the bipod or bags whatever and aiming at a tall vertical building/structure in the distance out the window/shed/door etc. Tall Buildings are great coz they provide a huge plumb line at distance.

2. then i mount the scope on the rifle with the rings just tight enough so that i can make adjustments and get it close where i want it by eye for starters.

3. Now get behind the rifle and simply line up the vertical line of the reticle with a vertical edge of the building whilst looking thru the scope, move the scope until the both of your references are flush and therefore aligned plumb.

4. tighten the scope rings and your done.
smile.gif
You can then check the tracking of the scope as a bonus while your here...

5. to check the tracking, simply wind up the elevation whilst the reticle is aimed at the edge of the building about half way up. After you dial 20-40MOA up or down, if the reticle is still aimed dead on the edge of the building (although much higher/lower now), and hasnt drifted off your plumb edge, then it must be tracking plumb yeah?

Too easy.


</div></div>

+1 on this one groper - it's how I do it.

I've tried the Feeler Gauges too , provided you have a scope and receiver that have level surfaces opposite each other...

But I still come back to this way....

All it needs is to clamp the rifle level in a vice (I use my CTK Precision cradle) and a good view out of the window to a suitable building.
 
#115
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

I do not know if someone else suggest this. What I do is put my rifle on my benchrest rest with the B-Square level attached to the Picatinney rail. then the scope is loose in its rings so I can turn the scope. I am lucky because my neighbors house is 100 yards away and the corner of it is plumb with a long carpenters level. While the B-Square level is level I turn the scope so the vertical lines up with the edge of the house. When the rings are tightened I turn the elevation turret up and down to make sure that the vertical cross hair goes up and down exactly on the edge of the house.

I do not know of a better way to do this. If someone knows a more accurate way please post it.

"Aim small miss small",

40gt

PS: OOPS, groper beat me to it..
 
#117
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

use a vice so the gun dont move then take a level and find the center line of the but plate or Recoil pad and make sure the center line is straight up and down. your gun should be level. place your scope in the rings adjust to your eye Relief then at about 50 yds hang a string with a weight tied to it the vertical cross hair should align. mount the top parts of the rings and your good to go sight in.
 
#118
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

My basis of attachment is as follows:

<span style="font-weight: bold">GIVEN:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">1;</span> the tapped receiver holes are in axial alignment with
the bore of the rifle.
<span style="font-weight: bold">2;</span> the mountng holes in the scope base are correctly located
and geometrically toleranced to the scope base itself.
3; the top surfaces of the lower scope rings are parallel to their respective bottom surfaces. (There are ways to verify this, but generally require the use of a dial indicator and holding fixture)

The barreled action, with the scope base and lower scope rings properly attached, is mountned in a padded vise, secured and boresighted to a piece of 1/8" nylon string that I've placed outside my shop about 30 yards away (it can be viewed through the window in the door).

I place a precision level (1 grad. = 0.0005" per linear foot)centered on the front lower ring. Observing the indication of the level, I'll bring the ring base into level by adjusting one side of the vise. I remove the level

The scope has been adjusted for eye relief previously and a pencil mark made on the barrel.

I place the scope in the lower rings, attach the top rings, snug the rings, adjust the vertical stadia parallel to the suspended string and then secure.
 
#121
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

for as a good of shooting as you can get? I wouldn't bother with feeler gauges since even it's the reticle you'll be using. I'd just take a yard stick that is true on all sides(i.e. use a bubble level to find out) then spray paint it black or yellow or blue or whatever color suits your fancy. Take it to the 100 yard line and mount that sucker up perfectly flat (again using the bubble level). I'd then get a bubble level indicator for the picatinny and take the rifle to the range and set the rifle so the level on the rifle is true and center then simply adjust the scope so the reticle is completely inline with the yard stick. Tighten screws, adjust as necessary and be done with it.

Just my opinion.

Then again I am thinking about a Larue OBR in an OBR mount with nightforce f1
wink.gif
 
#123
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beenjammin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What you do is go to an Auto Parts store and get a set of Feeler Gauges with removable gauges.

The top of the base is flat the bottom of the scope is flat, put the gauges under the scope and then slide them out and continue to tighten. You can add and remove gauges to adjust the height required.

Forget plumb lines, walls, etc... the gauges are level and flat. </div></div>


Seriously, I tried this and for $6 it saved me so much time and money. Genius ! Thanks LL. </div></div>

How can you be sure the underside of the scope is perfectly flat?
 
#124
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

Some of you fellers are putting a lot of faith in a carpenter/framer/sider who makes 7 bucks an hour. Houses, buildings and siding are rarely if ever plumb or level period and even if built perfectly as such usually settle out of plumb and level. I will admit before the feeler guage eureka I used them knowing better but always checked tracking to verify. Feeler gauges are the way to go.
 
#127
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STRICK9</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I will admit before the feeler guage eureka I used them knowing better but always checked tracking to verify. Feeler gauges are the way to go. </div></div>

Yep, I always used the bubble levels because it's the best system I knew about.

Checking my "level" scope yesterday with feeler gauges showed me that it wasn't level.
 
#129
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

Feeler gauges ensure the bottom of the scope is parallel to the rails. Usually the rails are truly parallel to the receiver plane, especially in higher-grade rifles (properly/precisely drilled) and rails (properly/precisely made) - but it isn't always the case. Usually the surfaces of the scope (top of the elevation turret and bottom of the turret "housing") are parallel to each other and to the horizontal reticle line, especially in higher-grade scopes - but it isn't always the case.

So mounting the scope using feeler gauges is the quickest and simplest process that ensures horizontal surfaces of your scope are parallel to the rails. Hopefully it also means that the reticle horizontal line is parallel to the receiver horizontal horizontal line, and that the crosshair vertical tracking is perpendicular to the receiver horizontal line. This method relieves you from the need to level the rifle and level the scope: when the reticle is vertical - the rifle is vertical (with the above assumptions).

SInce I know that not everything is made perfectly - I tend to verify my setup with bubble levels (receiver and top of the turret) and plumb bob. And I check that the crosshair really tracks the plumb bob line when the rifle is level - helps dealing with canted reticles. Ideally it all matches - feeler gauges, bubble levels, plumb bob.

You'll need plumb bob if you install scope-mounted bubble level anyway.
 
#131
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

Ya know, scopes (reticle and the erector) just have to be parallel and perpendicular to the receiver, <span style="text-decoration: underline">and</span> the receiver has to be parallel to the earth - or your long range shots would go sideways. But as I already explained - having scope bottom parallel to the rail top doesn't necessarily mean that the scope is "parallel and perpendicular" to the receiver. How close is "close enough"? Your rifle - you decide. To each his own fun and his own definition of precision.
 
#132
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

I tend to want mine more aligned to the bore than the receiver group. Or, more specifically, the tube of the scope and bore of the barrel should be in a state of coaxial alignment. But, then again, all other things being equal . . .
 
#133
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

Bore itself is round, <span style="text-decoration: line-through">so you can't "align to the bore"</span>. <span style="font-style: italic">I take it back - there is a device that (to a limited extent) allows to bring centerlines of the scope and the barrel in alignment perpendicular to the ground. I tried to post a link to it at MidwayUSA, but couldn't find it. Still, all that device does is ensuring that the scope objective is above the barrel when the bubble level says this whole thing is perpendicular to the ground, nothing more. You still need other tools to mount the scope properly.</span>

Bore itself is rigidly (hopefully
smile.gif
) mounted into the receiver group, that more likely than not has some rectangular components that can be used to either affix a bubble level to or stick feeler gauges on.

And more likely than not (in my experience at least, dealing with fairly expensive guns and scopes) the coaxial alignment is far from perfect, which is why when zeroing (not mounting!) we tend to adjust both scope elevation <span style="text-decoration: underline">and</span> windage. <span style="font-style: italic">More so: the scope cannot be coaxial with the barrel vertically because POA and POI have to converge somewhere, and it does not happen if the lines are parallel; and the imperfections of the receiver/drilling/rail/barrel/etc usually prevent the scope from being perfectly coaxial with the barrel laterally as well. These deviations are corrected optically - by adjusting zero.</span>
 
#134
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

Agreed, Mouse. I should have used the term parallel with respect to cylindrical alignment.

In the best of all worlds, if one were to extend an axis through both center points of the circles which describe the bores of both the scope tube and bore of the rifle, they would be coaxially aligned. Parallel with respect to the X, Y and A axes.

Were I to do a drawing, I'd deem the axis of the bore the primary datum and have all other dimensions toleranced to that.
 
#135
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

Most useful piece of gun-gear I have ever purchased is a Bushnell #74-3333 Boresighting Collimator.

Comes with 3 adjustable arbors. Mine, being 22yo, ranges from .22 to .458 bore diameter. likely the newer ones go .17 to .50 cal.

The tool has a grid of 10 squares and each square measures 4". There is total range of 80 x 80 inches of grid with a bold center crosshair.

This tool enables concise and quick scope mount work, allows you to record where your zero registers on the grid and switch scopes between rifles or vary your zero for different loads. Also enables box-test and other diagnosis when you suspect the scope is in need of repair. Great for also determining if you turrets and reticle are truly set in center of scope for movement. Also enables you to shim your rear base and determine the exact MOA-gain you get from so much cant.

Superbly useful tool, if only to verify your scope mounting job and save you lots of time. Also great kit to carry to verify zero without shooting or to make an adjustment in the field.

Redfield and Tasco also made similar boresighters that included about 12ea caliber specific arbor spuds rather than the adjustable arbor on the Bushnell. Highly regarded tools, but I've not used them.
 
#137
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

Tag. Just got my first precision rifle and optic. Excited to try the methods described here... have some feeler gauges already.

Thanks for the information all
 
#138
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lQgXPA4A2J0"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lQgXPA4A2J0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

Try this.
 
#147
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

I'm a little late to the party, but used to do a method that I haven't seen posted yet...

Mount a tight fitting action mandrel in a mill vise. (Horizontally and level so that the barreled action can be slid over)
Edge finder to find absolute center of action mandrel.
Ring Lapping bar in the mounted scope rings.
Edge finder to find absolute center of the lapping bar.
rotate action on mandrel until both bar axis indicate true vertical
once the mandrel and lapping bar are perfectly vertical, use a screw through one of the main action screw holes to secure the action rotation about the axis of the mandrel for the rest of the process.
Plumb Line at a minimum focus distance to center crosshairs.
tighten rings while checking vertical crosshairs against plumb line.

*** Mill needs to be dead nuts level or your error will be equal to the mill level error***

It's a pain and I know everyone doesn't have a mill handy, but I guarantee the vertical crosshair is absolutely pointed as directly through the bore as possible.

While you have this setup you can also run an indicator down the bars to check axial alignment between the two bars.

This method doesn't care if your base holes are perfectly centered or not. Overkill? Probably. Peace of mind knowing it's perfect? Yeah.
 
#148
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spuhr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is my little solution for doing it.
2,34 in to the movie.

Movie showing it!

Håkan </div></div>

+1 to Håkan. No screwing around, one shot deal.
One screw messed up a little bit before I got it to required torque. Maybe it was my mistake which I corrected by applying a little bit more down force. On positive note, the torque screws he gives are very precise in terms of maximum torque. You will destroy the screw but never give the ring excessive tension
 
#149
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

Dumbasses... Easiest way and cheapest is to get a metal ruler, you know one of the 1" x 12" jobs that cost about a dollar. Slide it between the scope and the base you'll notice that its at an angle. Rest the bottom of the ruler on the scope base making sure it is absolutely flat against it...no light coming under it. Now rotate it up still maintaining pressure against the base until it touches the bottom of the scope...which on most model of scopes is perfectly flat also. Now look where the ruler touches the scope and If its not level you'll see light coming. From one side or the other...adjust the scope accordingly till there's no light coming from between the scope and the ruler and the base and the ruler. It's now perfectly in line with the base and the action. Takes about a minute.
 
#150
Re: Tricks to mount optic perfectly horizontal?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daryl licht</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dumbasses... Easiest way and cheapest is to get a metal ruler, you know one of the 1" x 12" jobs that cost about a dollar. Slide it between the scope and the base you'll notice that its at an angle. Rest the bottom of the ruler on the scope base making sure it is absolutely flat against it...no light coming under it. Now rotate it up still maintaining pressure against the base until it touches the bottom of the scope...which on most model of scopes is perfectly flat also. Now look where the ruler touches the scope and If its not level you'll see light coming. From one side or the other...adjust the scope accordingly till there's no light coming from between the scope and the ruler and the base and the ruler. It's now perfectly in line with the base and the action. Takes about a minute.
</div></div>

... Not quite sure how that would in any way would ensure your reticle is level when mounting. For this to work, the area under the turret housing, the base, the flimsy outer edge of the ruler (of $1) and how the reticle is bedded would have to be exactly perpendicular to each other. Assuming all of the variables from each surface are perfect, you are still attempting to level something (the reticle) that extends across more than 15 ft at 500 yards by only measuring around 1" of material. It still does not account for the reticles relation to gravity. You would still need a level somewhere in this method so your elevation post is straight in line with how your bullet drops.

I don't see how this is cheaper, more efficient or accurate than using a plumb line, looking through the scope where you can level across a much larger area, or any of the other methods that level using the scope body.

I get the idea, (I'm sure there are instances where it works just fine) but I don't think it simplifies the process or is superior than using any other tool or method.
 
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