Tripod Shooting: Groups or just Hits?

[CarlsonCustoms]

For all you guys shooting off tripods, are you shooting for groups or just to get hits?

I took my Tikka T1X out today with my newly received PIG tripod with pig saddle on it. I first shot off bipod and bags on a table and kept the groups small (1MOA at 50 yards).

I then stood up and slipped the rifle in the pig saddle.. nothing else changed but I never felt like the gun was really stable, it still was rocking on one point and the groups doubled.

Am I being unrealistic with my expectations?

 

[47guy]

hits

 

[Steel head]

hits

It’s to aid shooting in some situations, shooting groups is not one of those situations.

 

[hlee]

I don’t think that many guys are dragging out tripods to bang steel at 50 yards, but I could be wrong. If it were me at that range, I would be shooting groups. Wind is essentially a non issue, so groups on paper are going to tell me a lot more about how I shoot from a tripod than “any hit” on a steel target.

 

[CarlsonCustoms]

Thanks, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy. I'm ok shooting from the tripod as long as it's just for hits. But I thought I was a novice shooter if it were expected that I could shoot groups from it.

 

[47guy]

I don’t think that many guys are dragging out tripods to bang steel at 50 yards, but I could be wrong. If it were me at that range, I would be shooting groups. Wind is essentially a non issue, so groups on paper are going to tell me a lot more about how I shoot from a tripod than “any hit” on a steel target.

very true but even at 50yds groups from a tripod might be a little discouraging for someone new to shooting off one....especially if in a standing position without much support.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Just like everything else, if you want to get better at it, shoot it on paper and try to shoot as small as you can.

A lot depends on how good of a tripod setup you have. Just like you wouldn’t expect to shoot .2 groups with a .75 rifle. On the flip side, if your rifle is capable of .2, you won’t gain much if you always shoot at a 2moa target.

And as with all practice, you start out doing the best you can, and then work down to smaller targets. Practice shooting groups at 100 (or 50 with .22, or 25, or wherever) and work on bringing them down as small as possible.

Here is a group shot locked into a tripod followed by just a bag on top of a table on the tripod (centerfire @ 100):

 

[hafejd30]

I have the same tripod and use it for hunting. So for me “hits” only. Theoretically the gun should shoot the same accuracy wise but for MY use a 1 round hit is worth more than a 1/2 MOA 5 shot group. Again hunting only

 

[never_summer]

Don’t get discouraged setting up your first time on a tripod. Watch some videos and do a bunch of dry fire exercises, or practice if you can conveniently lob .22 where you live.
The first time I shot off a tripod trying to shoot groups at 100 yards made me question if I could realistically do any good at range with how my wobble zone felt haha.

 

[CarlsonCustoms]

Yeah that's it exactly, the wobble zone was out of control on it. I'm used to loading a bipod, squeezing a rear bag and being able to hold it there while my breathing and trigger finger work it out to break the shot.

Moving to the tripod in a vise it was more like "wobble wobble pull the trigger while it's hopefully centered"

If it was for hunting or steel plate hits I would have been fine but trying to get tiny groups was way harder than what I'm used to.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Yeah that's it exactly, the wobble zone was out of control on it. I'm used to loading a bipod, squeezing a rear bag and being able to hold it there while my breathing and trigger finger work it out to break the shot.

Moving to the tripod in a vise it was more like "wobble wobble pull the trigger while it's hopefully centered"

If it was for hunting or steel plate hits I would have been fine but trying to get tiny groups was way harder than what I'm used to.

Just have to practice. The fundamentals are the same no matter what position.

If you have a wobble zone, use natural point of aim and make sure the center of the wobble zone is where you intend to hit.

Generally speaking, where ever the center of your wobble (this is your natural point of aim), is where the bullet is going to go. Or within reason.

The goal isn’t to eliminate wobble completely, but to shrink it to an acceptable size and let NPA take care of the rest.

 

[canezach]

I've shot off my tripod for a long time. At one point I had the Hog Saddle before switching to a leveling base. If you have a sling, attach it to the front of your rifle and either twist the tail around a tripod leg, like a candy cane, or attach the tail to your belt with a carabiner. If you candy cane, just wrap your hand around the wrapped section and by twisting just a little, you'll pull the rifle tight which will reduce your wobble. If you attach the tail to your belt, you'll have to adjust the tail length a little, but by shifting your hips rearward, you'll be pulling the sling and essentially doing the same as the candy cane. It takes some practice and I found i preferred the candy cane over hooking the sling to my belt, but YMMV

 

[McMillan]

Using a pig tripod you will probably need to learn to use a sling to steady it. Tbey aren't a very stable tripod. That's why people shell out for high end carbon tripods. As for shooting groups. I consider it nesicary for practice no matter what you are doing. Unless you use a very small plate. If your just banging a large plate and using all of it you have no room for error in wind calls. Shooting groups on paper tells you everything you are doing wrong and then it is easier to improve

 

[strikeeagle1]

I really don't like the Hog Saddle Mod8 much but when I do use it, as mentioned above, a sling is useful to stabilize. I find it important to use a QD mount at 6 o'clock position to prevent the tension effort from displacing the muzzle to the right / left. I use a large carabiner attached to center which acts like a smooth pulley for the sling passing to the shooter, which is attached with a carabiner to a riggers belt. Then, as mentioned, very little rearward hip tension will steady up the sight picture pretty well. Sometimes when gathering DOPE there is so much gear it looks like a weather station.

Triangles are incorporated into structural engineering, e.g. bridge trusses, as they are very strong and cannot collapse like regular polygon structures might. When setting up your shooting posture behind the tripod try to imagine and impart as many support triangles to increase stability. The sling is an added triangle.

 

[mark5pt56]

Just have a PRS tripod and u shaped saddle, no clamp. The current max range around here is 628, paper or steel which is 5" 8, 10 or 12"
I occasionally will set it up next to the bench and shoot the steel, just for fun and maintain skills. It is funny when the bench rest shooter see you making 80-90 % hits on the 5" at 628. Only MOA as most here could do but these guys (BR) have $1ooo rest, etc to do it from the bench.

 

[smokey24_24]

I really don't like the Hog Saddle Mod8 much but when I do use it, as mentioned above, a sling is useful to stabilize. I find it important to use a QD mount at 6 o'clock position to prevent the tension effort from displacing the muzzle to the right / left. I use a large carabiner attached to center which acts like a smooth pulley for the sling passing to the shooter, which is attached with a carabiner to a riggers belt. Then, as mentioned, very little rearward hip tension will steady up the sight picture pretty well. Sometimes when gathering DOPE there is so much gear it looks like a weather station.

Triangles are incorporated into structural engineering, e.g. bridge trusses, as they are very strong and cannot collapse like regular polygon structures might. When setting up your shooting posture behind the tripod try to imagine and impart as many support triangles to increase stability. The sling is an added triangle.

View attachment 7345381View attachment 7345386

View attachment 7345401

View attachment 7345409

Thanks for the pics, and nice setup you have.

 

[Quarter Horse]

I've used a tripod quite a bit for shooting rockchucks. The set-up is a dove stool to sit on and a Manfrotto aluminum tripod with a pistol grip head and pig-saddle. Sitting on the dove stool you need minimal height on the tripod which makes for a pretty steady set-up. I use no connection to the tripod. The forearm is in the pig saddle at about the balance point and I reach across my chest, grab a bunch of shirt above my armpit on the strong side and rest the butt on my fist. Now, I put my elbows on my thighs and I have a stable platform.

The question is obviously how stable? The answer is my varmint guns are about half MOA off a wobbly round patio table using bi-pod and rear bag. With the tripod and stool they are about one MOA.

First pic is one of the .223s set up. Third pic is a TRG42 to show the set-up will hold a heavier rifle. Second pic is results from a stand and about an hours work. Sorry about the quality of the first pic. The weak spot in all this is the pistol grip ball head. I should have chosen a lever lock ball head.

 

[strikeeagle1]

^^^^Wow. The rockchucks must hate your setup!

 

[Islas82]

Thanks, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy. I'm ok shooting from the tripod as long as it's just for hits. But I thought I was a novice shooter if it were expected that I could shoot groups from it.

I feel like you can try to get some groups just to see what kind of accuracy you can expect from your system while shooting off a tripod. I been able to hit a 5” plate at 400yrds with mine but probably wouldn’t attempt to shoot at anything past 600 “accurately”

 

[Maxduty]

Slightly different setup, but I use a tripod to hunt as well. I've used a sitting position and used the sling on the tripod to stabilize the whole setup. Not the most stable position, but I expect to have only one shot. So it's definitely about getting hits.

 

[Quarter Horse]

After posting I reread your first post. I hadn't realized you were shooting a T1X and there happened to be one sitting about twenty feet from me. I put the tripod set-up together and went out and shot two 6X5s. One off the tripod and dove stool and the other off the patio table with a folding camp chair.

The tripod average was .798" with a smallest group of .437". The table 6X5 average was .486" with a smallest grp. of .301". Conditions were 60 degrees, wind gusting to about 12mph and swirling with the barometer around 29.5. I was shooting between rain showers so it was quick and dirty. 50yds.

The results are pretty close to the two to one ratio I got with CFs at 100.

 

[Bertoli888]

In using a tripod, do you use the two legs in the back or in the front when you are shooting with a tripod? Thank you.

 

[Dthomas3523]

In using a tripod, do you use the two legs in the back or in the front when you are shooting with a tripod? Thank you.

Situationally dependent.

If you’re loading into rifle, single leg up front.

If you’re reverse loading or free recoiling, single leg in the back.

Then there’s all the other things like terrain and other things that may dictate leg position.

 

[MCHOG]

If you’re loading into rifle, single leg up front.

If you’re reverse loading or free recoiling, single leg in the back.

Interesting! I've been of the mind that you always want the single leg up front so that when the rifle recoils, it can do so straight back on two legs and settle into the same spot, as opposed to coming back on one leg and probably turning one way or the other. I'm not doubting you, just trying to understand the reasoning behind recoiling against one leg when reverse loading or free recoiling.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Interesting! I've been of the mind that you always want the single leg up front so that when the rifle recoils, it can do so straight back on two legs and settle into the same spot, as opposed to coming back on one leg and probably turning one way or the other. I'm not doubting you, just trying to understand the reasoning behind recoiling against one leg when reverse loading or free recoiling.

The single leg in the back will take some of the recoil and let you keep target in the FOV easier.

Two legs in the back will allow the recoil to come straight back better, but will also be harder to keep target in FOV.

Give and take. If you’re only getting one shot, no need for the single foot as it’s hit or miss and you want as perfect a shot as possible.

With tripods like RRS being so stable, I almost always load into the rifle, so I prefer the single leg up front. RRS is stable enough to hold .5moa this way.

 

[McMillan]

Interesting! I've been of the mind that you always want the single leg up front so that when the rifle recoils, it can do so straight back on two legs and settle into the same spot, as opposed to coming back on one leg and probably turning one way or the other. I'm not doubting you, just trying to understand the reasoning behind recoiling against one leg when reverse loading or free recoiling.

I am totally doubting him. Having the single leg at the rear and light loading is terrible for follow up shots. It bounces on one leg and doesn't return on target. Probably fine if your not shooting on the clock

 

[Dthomas3523]

I am totally doubting him. Having the single leg at the rear and light loading is terrible for follow up shots. It bounces on one leg and doesn't return on target. Probably fine if your not shooting on the clock

Just spent the last two months shooting about 1200 rnds off a tripod.

Doubt all you want. Learn to use your equipment better.

 

[Dthomas3523]

If it’s bouncing on the single leg, you need to increase the angle. Shorter height in the front and longer in the back.

Bouncing on single leg in back is because you have tripod setup incorrectly.

 

[McMillan]

Just spent the last two months shooting about 1200 rnds off a tripod.

Doubt all you want. Learn to use your equipment better.

Ok I will refrase that. I don't dought it I completely disagree with it. It may work for a 22. Using a centre fire it just bounces on 1 leg and you have to adjust your point of aim for every shot. Wasting time

 

[Dthomas3523]

Ok I will refrase that. I don't dought it I completely disagree with it. It may work for a 22. Using a centre fire it just bounces on 1 leg and you have to adjust your point of aim for every shot. Wasting time

You have the tripod setup incorrectly for the task.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Not to mention, you have downward pressure on the rifle just like you would on a bag. Light load/free recoil works the same way off a bag as it does a tripod. You’re not standing beside the rifle not controlling it.

 

[Dthomas3523]

90 second par time. Light load. 100yd practice for speed. Actual time was around 70s. Single leg in rear:

 

[McMillan]

90 second par time. Light load. 100yd practice for speed. Actual time was around 70s. Single leg in rear:

View attachment 7346898

Is this with a 22lr

 

[never_summer]

I’m gonna agree with @Dthomas3523
Tried the two legs in the front and loading the tripod initially, i couldn’t keep a sight picture on recoil to save my life. Went to the single leg in the front loading the tripod and putting weight on one leg for stability, my sight picture doesn’t move much. I also put my sights under the target, lock down my ballhead and load it up into the target.

 

[dgheriani]

I default to one leg forward but in certain terrain like a reverse slope of some kind, 2 legs forward and one leg back works really well. Often times you can get a rear bag on that back leg as well to support the rear of the stock. Tripod use in the field is dictated by the terrain.

 

[McMillan]

I’m gonna agree with @Dthomas3523
Tried the two legs in the front and loading the tripod initially, i couldn’t keep a sight picture on recoil to save my life. Went to the single leg in the front loading the tripod and putting weight on one leg for stability, my sight picture doesn’t move much. I also put my sights under the target, lock down my ballhead and load it up into the target.

That would be disagreeing with him. He is advocating 2 legs in the front one in the back.

 

[Dthomas3523]

That would be disagreeing with him. He is advocating 2 legs in the front one in the back.

Not when loading into the rifle.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Is this with a 22lr

Lol........6.5x47

Just because you can’t do it, doesn’t mean it’s not possible.

You can even set it up so you can sit down with some of your weight on the rear leg.

 

[McMillan]

Lol........6.5x47

Just because you can’t do it, doesn’t mean it’s not possible.

You can even set it up so you can sit down with some of your weight on the rear leg.

In that case you either have some serious issue with your technique or your setup. Are you by chance using an old style centre column tripod lile one of the cookies of the manfroto 055 tripods. If you have legitimately fired 1200 rounds off a tripod this year and you are shooting 1.2 moa at 100 you either have a really bad tripod and you are doing the best you can with your equipment or you have some serious issues in your technique

 

[clcustom1911]

Hits.

Aim small, miss small.

 

[Austinjunks]

Being confident off a tripod take time. Look for videos and tips on the forum and practice. Every now and then shoot for groups on paper to note your progress. Good luck.

 

[Dthomas3523]

In that case you either have some serious issue with your technique or your setup. Are you by chance using an old style centre column tripod lile one of the cookies of the manfroto 055 tripods. If you have legitimately fired 1200 rounds off a tripod this year and you are shooting 1.2 moa at 100 you either have a really bad tripod and you are doing the best you can with your equipment or you have some serious issues in your technique

Look idiot, thats 10 shots in 70s. Hence the wording speed drill. You’ve stepped on your dick and trying to talk your way out of it.

It must be a .22. You can’t do it fast. Oh you did it.....you must have a shitty setup or bad technique.

Boohoohoohoo.......he showed me he did it and now I have to come up with 100 reasons he’s wrong.

 

[Mk32784]

I run a RRS 34L with a Anvil-30, direct mounted to my MPA or MDT chassis I can group standing 1MOA or better at 100 yards.

For standing I prefer two legs back one forward, I find this helps the most with recoil and lets me stay on target. I shoot with the head around pec level and lean into the gun slightly. There's is definitely a wobble zone but I find it's usually around .5-.7 MOA. In my experince I am pretty happy with this and it works out well for field matches/tripod stages, I am usually missing because of a bad wind call or rushing a bad trigger pull over stability problems.

I do find find the RRS setup with a direct mount a fair more stable then the pig saddle setups I have tried, usually just over MOA with those. But I don't have a lot of practice with it, it's almost cheating with how solid the arca clamp can be.

 

[Bertoli888]

@Dthomas3523 "If you’re loading into rifle, single leg up front." Can you explain how this work? Do I "push" rifle forward? Also seen where they put backpack on hook below to put weight down to keep from hopping? Others put hand on scope and don't know if they are putting pressure down? What are the principles to control the rifle and hit targets? Thank you.

 

[Dthomas3523]

@Dthomas3523 "If you’re loading into rifle, single leg up front." Can you explain how this work? Do I "push" rifle forward? Also seen where they put backpack on hook below to put weight down to keep from hopping? Others put hand on scope and don't know if they are putting pressure down? What are the principles to control the rifle and hit targets? Thank you.

Just a slight load like you would off a barricade. Nothing crazy. You can feel the difference if you have two legs forward and it won’t feel as stable. Put the single leg forward and you’ll notice a big difference.

Typically if someone has a hand on the optic, they are pressing down. Keep in mind though, if you’re not free recoiling/semi free recoil, you don’t want downward pressure as you want the rifle to track back.

 

[McMillan]

Look idiot, thats 10 shots in 70s. Hence the wording speed drill. You’ve stepped on your dick and trying to talk your way out of it.

It must be a .22. You can’t do it fast. Oh you did it.....you must have a shitty setup or bad technique.

Boohoohoohoo.......he showed me he did it and now I have to come up with 100 reasons he’s wrong.

Sorry to offend you. I asked if it was a 22 because often a lot of 22s aren't very accurate at 100.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Sorry to offend you. I asked if it was a 22 because often a lot of 22s aren't very accurate at 100.

Not offended at all. Just calling out bullshit as it’s spewed. Full time job around here. As well as seeing past the poor attempts at veiled insults.

 

[chrome]

Great thread and info. Anyone have any videos from matches or someone practicing these techniques mentioned above?

 

[brianf]

@McMillan, @Dthomas3523

im shit off a tripod because i dont shoot it that often

ive seen groups from DT with a pretty thorough explanation

id love to see mclillan pics with the same, maybe even a video

i might learn something and retain it for more than 5 min lol

saying around here "if there arent pics it didnt happen"

 

[morganlamprecht]

shoot groups to gauge your hit probability

hit is a hit, when its for score/game...but if youre shooting a 2x sized group at x distance under no pressure, your just hoping to get lucky shooting at an x sized target any other time

i wouldnt be comparing results closely from a rrs or similar type carbon tripod direct attached against a pig tripod and saddle...arent even in the same ball park and require much different approaches