Disclaimer: Yes I have read a bunch about them on here before asking. But was wondering if anybdody had any more recent experience with the kit. Debating breaking in my new LTR with it since I got of the preloaded ones (20)
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Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
have a NEED for this product......it is a tool to make something happen to the barrel......
i'm just sayin.......
have a NEED for this product......it is a tool to make something happen to the barrel......
i'm just sayin.......
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have a NEED for this product......it is a tool to make something happen to the barrel......
i'm just sayin....... </div></div>
I don't get exactly what you are sayin, haha
Bit tired maybe
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have a NEED for this product......it is a tool to make something happen to the barrel......
i'm just sayin....... </div></div>
I don't get exactly what you are sayin, haha
Bit tired maybe
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
I have used it on 3 different rifles, and all 3 times my rifles suffered the same 3 side effects,
easier to clean
higher velocity (chrono tested!)
tighter groups
I have used it on 3 different rifles, and all 3 times my rifles suffered the same 3 side effects,
easier to clean
higher velocity (chrono tested!)
tighter groups
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TexanAviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have a NEED for this product......it is a tool to make something happen to the barrel......
i'm just sayin....... </div></div>
I don't get exactly what you are sayin, haha
Bit tired maybe</div></div>
what TURK said.......see above post
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TexanAviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have a NEED for this product......it is a tool to make something happen to the barrel......
i'm just sayin....... </div></div>
I don't get exactly what you are sayin, haha
Bit tired maybe</div></div>
what TURK said.......see above post
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
I think BR is saying, don't go trying to fix something until you test the damn thing to see if its broke. There is a good chance that it will shoot just fine. Most of the time the only thing wrong with a rifle is the lose nut behind it. Should you choose to drink the break-in kool-aid, do it with what you will be shooting and go from there. My opinion.
Mike
I think BR is saying, don't go trying to fix something until you test the damn thing to see if its broke. There is a good chance that it will shoot just fine. Most of the time the only thing wrong with a rifle is the lose nut behind it. Should you choose to drink the break-in kool-aid, do it with what you will be shooting and go from there. My opinion.
Mike
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
I've tried it on a couple factory barrels. I'd never use it on a custom tube. Also I typically only use half the kit. 1 shot course and clean, 2 shots course and clean, 2 shots course and clean then repeat for the fine. I also only use it once, I won't use it after the first time as "maintenance".
My experience has been this, accuracy did not get worse, but in all honesty if it improved the best groups it was only by a small amount. I do think in at least one case it made the rifle significantly more accurate with a wider range of ammo. Ammo that shot poorly before using the kit shot better after the kit. However, the groups of the most accurate ammo before using the kit stayed virtually identical. Mostly I noticed that the rifle was easier to clean, fouled less, and a slight bit of velocity was gained.
Since I've seen little or any accuracy gain using the kit, I only use it for rifles that seem to foul really quickly/badly. That and honestly with the amount of tool marks and such in factory tubes I doubt you could damage one with the kit. So for the $40 for the kit it's not much $ to stick into a rifle, esp. if you use only half the kit.
That said I've yet to hear of anyone using the kit and getting worse accuracy so I'm sure it accelerates the barrel wear a bit but on something like a .308 with a lot of barrel life anyway I don't think it's a big deal.
I've tried it on a couple factory barrels. I'd never use it on a custom tube. Also I typically only use half the kit. 1 shot course and clean, 2 shots course and clean, 2 shots course and clean then repeat for the fine. I also only use it once, I won't use it after the first time as "maintenance".
My experience has been this, accuracy did not get worse, but in all honesty if it improved the best groups it was only by a small amount. I do think in at least one case it made the rifle significantly more accurate with a wider range of ammo. Ammo that shot poorly before using the kit shot better after the kit. However, the groups of the most accurate ammo before using the kit stayed virtually identical. Mostly I noticed that the rifle was easier to clean, fouled less, and a slight bit of velocity was gained.
Since I've seen little or any accuracy gain using the kit, I only use it for rifles that seem to foul really quickly/badly. That and honestly with the amount of tool marks and such in factory tubes I doubt you could damage one with the kit. So for the $40 for the kit it's not much $ to stick into a rifle, esp. if you use only half the kit.
That said I've yet to hear of anyone using the kit and getting worse accuracy so I'm sure it accelerates the barrel wear a bit but on something like a .308 with a lot of barrel life anyway I don't think it's a big deal.
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
The first thing you should think about it what your really doing to the bore of your rifle when you do that. Critical things in your barrel are you overall size, taper and strength and sharpness of your lands. If you think messing with that stuff will help by all means go ahead. Just shoot the thing first to see if you have a problem.
The first thing you should think about it what your really doing to the bore of your rifle when you do that. Critical things in your barrel are you overall size, taper and strength and sharpness of your lands. If you think messing with that stuff will help by all means go ahead. Just shoot the thing first to see if you have a problem.
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
bro...
Please take this in the manner in which it is intended...
You are sounding like a solution in search of a problem...
Get your rig set up (rifle, scope mounted, etc..etc..)
Grab some FGMM, TAP, etc ammo and get to the range. SHOOT IT!
Don't worry about some stupid break in procedures.. SHOOT IT!
Let your rig tell you what it needs... quit trying to force something that's not necessarily needed.
Listen to your rifle...it will tell you what it wants/needs.
Happy Shooting!
-Wil
bro...
Please take this in the manner in which it is intended...
You are sounding like a solution in search of a problem...
Get your rig set up (rifle, scope mounted, etc..etc..)
Grab some FGMM, TAP, etc ammo and get to the range. SHOOT IT!
Don't worry about some stupid break in procedures.. SHOOT IT!
Let your rig tell you what it needs... quit trying to force something that's not necessarily needed.
Listen to your rifle...it will tell you what it wants/needs.
Happy Shooting!
-Wil
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
I used it on my 700p Ultra mag and the only thing I noticed was it made it much easier to clean. Thats the main reason I used it. Rifle would shoot groups under a 1" at 200yd before and after. I agree... Go shoot the thing and see what it needs before you try and fix somethin that might be broke in the first place...
I used it on my 700p Ultra mag and the only thing I noticed was it made it much easier to clean. Thats the main reason I used it. Rifle would shoot groups under a 1" at 200yd before and after. I agree... Go shoot the thing and see what it needs before you try and fix somethin that might be broke in the first place...
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
I think this is kind of a funny subject. The bullets claim to remove no more than .002 of material. The machine and tooling marks in barrels are far mor substantial than .002, if you can see it with your naked eyes.
This is basicly shooting 300-500 rounds down your barrel, and you get the same result.
"Throat wear is the biggest cause of suffering accuracy" -per the add I read, and then they suggest you shoot the sand paper bullets down the throat...I dont get it.
Your better off with the JB Bore paste, tight patch, and 4-5 hours, if its that much of a concern.
I think this is kind of a funny subject. The bullets claim to remove no more than .002 of material. The machine and tooling marks in barrels are far mor substantial than .002, if you can see it with your naked eyes.
This is basicly shooting 300-500 rounds down your barrel, and you get the same result.
"Throat wear is the biggest cause of suffering accuracy" -per the add I read, and then they suggest you shoot the sand paper bullets down the throat...I dont get it.
Your better off with the JB Bore paste, tight patch, and 4-5 hours, if its that much of a concern.
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
Use it. I have yet to hear someone that said it hurt. It is 40 bucks (a stupid small amount compared to what all goes into a good stick) and it GREATLY reduces cleaning effort and time! It is worth it for the cleaning advantage alone. I will not build a new rifle without using this system on a new factory barrel.
I personally think the results on accuracy speak for themselves.
Remmy 700 .308, 24" HB in an AICS, and thats it (really). 100 yards, 5 round group from a bi-pod, prone...
and I consider the hole on the lower right a flyer (some people disreguard flyers for measuring groups, it is included, cause... why not?) So, 0.457 minus the bullet diam. (0.30) is a pretty effective argument that the Tubbs stuff is OK.
Use it. I have yet to hear someone that said it hurt. It is 40 bucks (a stupid small amount compared to what all goes into a good stick) and it GREATLY reduces cleaning effort and time! It is worth it for the cleaning advantage alone. I will not build a new rifle without using this system on a new factory barrel.
I personally think the results on accuracy speak for themselves.
Remmy 700 .308, 24" HB in an AICS, and thats it (really). 100 yards, 5 round group from a bi-pod, prone...
and I consider the hole on the lower right a flyer (some people disreguard flyers for measuring groups, it is included, cause... why not?) So, 0.457 minus the bullet diam. (0.30) is a pretty effective argument that the Tubbs stuff is OK.
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thumper49802</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just shoot the rifle forget that lapping ammo. </div></div>
Thats a pretty strong comment, may I ask how many times you have used Tubbs FF with bad results?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thumper49802</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just shoot the rifle forget that lapping ammo. </div></div>
Thats a pretty strong comment, may I ask how many times you have used Tubbs FF with bad results?
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
On a un-lapped factory barrel i see no problem with it. If it doesnt shoot very well do it. On a custom or lapped button no way.
By the way i have seen stress relief half the size of groups also. It would be tough for me to put any kind of abrasive bullet in anything i shoot.
On a un-lapped factory barrel i see no problem with it. If it doesnt shoot very well do it. On a custom or lapped button no way.
By the way i have seen stress relief half the size of groups also. It would be tough for me to put any kind of abrasive bullet in anything i shoot.
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
Don't bother until you know if the rifle shoots right from the box or not. Why mess with something that's not needed.
You use any abrasives in a custom tube and you can pretty much kiss any warranty good-bye.
Don't bother until you know if the rifle shoots right from the box or not. Why mess with something that's not needed.
You use any abrasives in a custom tube and you can pretty much kiss any warranty good-bye.
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
You may or may not have a rifle that would shoot better; at the cost of barrel life! If it'll shoot better w/ the final finish, chances are it would do that for you anyway down the road.
You may or may not have a rifle that would shoot better; at the cost of barrel life! If it'll shoot better w/ the final finish, chances are it would do that for you anyway down the road.
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thumper49802</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just shoot the rifle forget that lapping ammo. </div></div>
Thats a pretty strong comment, may I ask how many times you have used Tubbs FF with bad results? </div></div>
Never needed to. Just listened to more experienced people, who have seen the positive and negative from it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thumper49802</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just shoot the rifle forget that lapping ammo. </div></div>
Thats a pretty strong comment, may I ask how many times you have used Tubbs FF with bad results? </div></div>
Never needed to. Just listened to more experienced people, who have seen the positive and negative from it.
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
I only got the 20 round box... Spoke with a gunsmith and he said it would likely only act as if I had fired 150(ish) rounds down the barrel which his not a big deal to me. So far I have read and seen nothing but positive as far as facts go.
I only got the 20 round box... Spoke with a gunsmith and he said it would likely only act as if I had fired 150(ish) rounds down the barrel which his not a big deal to me. So far I have read and seen nothing but positive as far as facts go.
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
I went to Lee Mosher's house the other day and found the barrel in my 10 FP to be filled with tool marks and tons of copper after only 12 rounds post intense cleaning. His opinion was to use the Tubb bullets and see what happens. This rifle shoots poorly. I will probably toss the barrel anyway, but it will be a valid experiment.
I went to Lee Mosher's house the other day and found the barrel in my 10 FP to be filled with tool marks and tons of copper after only 12 rounds post intense cleaning. His opinion was to use the Tubb bullets and see what happens. This rifle shoots poorly. I will probably toss the barrel anyway, but it will be a valid experiment.
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
I do plan on doing more before pitching it, but I've already got a Broughton that will work out for the rifle...but that is for another thread.
I do plan on doing more before pitching it, but I've already got a Broughton that will work out for the rifle...but that is for another thread.
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ToddM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've tried it on a couple factory barrels. I'd never use it on a custom tube. Also I typically only use half the kit. 1 shot course and clean, 2 shots course and clean, 2 shots course and clean then repeat for the fine. I also only use it once, I won't use it after the first time as "maintenance".
My experience has been this, accuracy did not get worse, but in all honesty if it improved the best groups it was only by a small amount. I do think in at least one case it made the rifle significantly more accurate with a wider range of ammo. Ammo that shot poorly before using the kit shot better after the kit. However, the groups of the most accurate ammo before using the kit stayed virtually identical. Mostly I noticed that the rifle was easier to clean, fouled less, and a slight bit of velocity was gained.
Since I've seen little or any accuracy gain using the kit, I only use it for rifles that seem to foul really quickly/badly. That and honestly with the amount of tool marks and such in factory tubes I doubt you could damage one with the kit. So for the $40 for the kit it's not much $ to stick into a rifle, esp. if you use only half the kit.
That said I've yet to hear of anyone using the kit and getting worse accuracy so I'm sure it accelerates the barrel wear a bit but on something like a .308 with a lot of barrel life anyway I don't think it's a big deal. </div></div>
Good post Todd. I like it when people can speak from experience....so many internet experts out there these days. I used it on one rifle with a very poor barrel just to see if it would help. The accuracy got a little better and so did the fouling but I would not recommend it unless you have nothing to lose. I would not use it to break in a barrel and I would not use it until I knew the barrel was the reason for the problem and not some other component.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ToddM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've tried it on a couple factory barrels. I'd never use it on a custom tube. Also I typically only use half the kit. 1 shot course and clean, 2 shots course and clean, 2 shots course and clean then repeat for the fine. I also only use it once, I won't use it after the first time as "maintenance".
My experience has been this, accuracy did not get worse, but in all honesty if it improved the best groups it was only by a small amount. I do think in at least one case it made the rifle significantly more accurate with a wider range of ammo. Ammo that shot poorly before using the kit shot better after the kit. However, the groups of the most accurate ammo before using the kit stayed virtually identical. Mostly I noticed that the rifle was easier to clean, fouled less, and a slight bit of velocity was gained.
Since I've seen little or any accuracy gain using the kit, I only use it for rifles that seem to foul really quickly/badly. That and honestly with the amount of tool marks and such in factory tubes I doubt you could damage one with the kit. So for the $40 for the kit it's not much $ to stick into a rifle, esp. if you use only half the kit.
That said I've yet to hear of anyone using the kit and getting worse accuracy so I'm sure it accelerates the barrel wear a bit but on something like a .308 with a lot of barrel life anyway I don't think it's a big deal. </div></div>
Good post Todd. I like it when people can speak from experience....so many internet experts out there these days. I used it on one rifle with a very poor barrel just to see if it would help. The accuracy got a little better and so did the fouling but I would not recommend it unless you have nothing to lose. I would not use it to break in a barrel and I would not use it until I knew the barrel was the reason for the problem and not some other component.
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HasgunWilltravel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
"Throat wear is the biggest cause of suffering accuracy" -per the add I read, and then they suggest you shoot the sand paper bullets down the throat...I dont get it.
</div></div>
Pushing the throat with fire lapping (smoother and easier to clean, less potential for bullet jacket damage, longer potential accuracy between cleanings) and pushing the throat with powder erosion (rougher and harder to clean, more potential bullet jacket damage, shorter potential between cleanings)are two different things, with two different results.
Not making a case for or against, just observing the discussion.
David Tubb claims longer barrel life by doing throat maintenence (TMS) by smoothing the throat erosion.
http://www.superiorshootingsystems.com/RELOADING-TMS.html
Edited to update frequency claim. Original comment from memory of Glenn Zediker's book "The Competetive AR15" (the first one) and his writing about TMS. Zediker is David Tubb's publisher of "Highpower Rifle" and "The Rifle Shooter".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HasgunWilltravel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
"Throat wear is the biggest cause of suffering accuracy" -per the add I read, and then they suggest you shoot the sand paper bullets down the throat...I dont get it.
</div></div>
Pushing the throat with fire lapping (smoother and easier to clean, less potential for bullet jacket damage, longer potential accuracy between cleanings) and pushing the throat with powder erosion (rougher and harder to clean, more potential bullet jacket damage, shorter potential between cleanings)are two different things, with two different results.
Not making a case for or against, just observing the discussion.
David Tubb claims longer barrel life by doing throat maintenence (TMS) by smoothing the throat erosion.
http://www.superiorshootingsystems.com/RELOADING-TMS.html
Edited to update frequency claim. Original comment from memory of Glenn Zediker's book "The Competetive AR15" (the first one) and his writing about TMS. Zediker is David Tubb's publisher of "Highpower Rifle" and "The Rifle Shooter".
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
A regiment of 2-3 TMS bullets down the barrel (depending on the caliber) every 200 to 500 rds is akin to a program of scheduled maintenance.
200 rds = 7mm Rem mag
500 rds = 308 Win
If you are contemplating using either Final Finish (FF) or Throat Maintenance System (TMS) -- www.Cabelas -- and look at the feedback.
DTubb
A regiment of 2-3 TMS bullets down the barrel (depending on the caliber) every 200 to 500 rds is akin to a program of scheduled maintenance.
200 rds = 7mm Rem mag
500 rds = 308 Win
If you are contemplating using either Final Finish (FF) or Throat Maintenance System (TMS) -- www.Cabelas -- and look at the feedback.
DTubb
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
That first comment is a doozy.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/reviews.jsp?productid=214206
That first comment is a doozy.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/reviews.jsp?productid=214206
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
Cant win them all..........
Kind of like the individual who shot an entire kit through his ar 10 and cut his groups in half.
So what does he do-- shoots another complete kit - same analogy if a little is good more is better.
DTubb
Cant win them all..........
Kind of like the individual who shot an entire kit through his ar 10 and cut his groups in half.
So what does he do-- shoots another complete kit - same analogy if a little is good more is better.
DTubb
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
Wow David Tubb himself! Thanks for taking the time to contribute to the thread. I've used 3 FF kits and all 3 times the results were what was advertised. I have yet to come across a Tubb product that didn't meet my expectations. And I'm not just saying that, I really mean it.
USMCj
Wow David Tubb himself! Thanks for taking the time to contribute to the thread. I've used 3 FF kits and all 3 times the results were what was advertised. I have yet to come across a Tubb product that didn't meet my expectations. And I'm not just saying that, I really mean it.
USMCj
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
I've used it on 9 different rifles.
So far I have noticed that
1. They barrels are easier to clean
2. The accuracy ranges from the same to better. Better in at least half that is noticeable.
*The accuracy that didn't improve is in rifles in which I haven't optimized the handloads yet.
*I have shot initial baseline 5 round groups out of all rifles prior to the Tubbs bullets to determine whether accuracy changed. Although statistically the change in accuracy would require something like 27 groups to see a change in group size of a tenth of an inch it seems like they got better.
I've used it on 9 different rifles.
So far I have noticed that
1. They barrels are easier to clean
2. The accuracy ranges from the same to better. Better in at least half that is noticeable.
*The accuracy that didn't improve is in rifles in which I haven't optimized the handloads yet.
*I have shot initial baseline 5 round groups out of all rifles prior to the Tubbs bullets to determine whether accuracy changed. Although statistically the change in accuracy would require something like 27 groups to see a change in group size of a tenth of an inch it seems like they got better.
Re: Tubbs Final Finish (recent users?)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B. Melick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I highly recommend both the FF and the TMS kits </div></div>
Are you serious? This thread is three years old.... Not very good forum etiquette bumping old threads.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B. Melick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I highly recommend both the FF and the TMS kits </div></div>
Are you serious? This thread is three years old.... Not very good forum etiquette bumping old threads.
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