Turbulent boundary layer

[JB.IC]

Has there been any more emerging information on this in context to the Tubb Nose Ring?

Has anyone been shooting bullets with the nose ring?
What are your experiences with it?
How did it help the transonic transition?

Any results showing that it makes bullet to bullet BC more consistent? Low BC SDs

Also when’s the dang tool going to be released lol

 

[Geno C.]

Why would you want to lower your bc?

 

[Dogtown]

I think he's talking about lowering BC variance from bullet to bullet, not the overall BC value.

I have no experience with the Tubb nose ring modification, but fluid dynamics was my profession for a time. The concept of making an adjustment to a surface in order to affect the boundary layer of a fluid isn't new; ask anyone in aerospace. But I'm not so sure this would make much of a noticeable difference for a small high velocity bullet.

 

[acudaowner]

man I need some pop corn with the last one

 

[steve podleski]

I think he's talking about lowering BC variance from bullet to bullet, not the overall BC value.

I have no experience with the Tubb nose ring modification, but fluid dynamics was my profession for a time. The concept of making an adjustment to a surface in order to affect the boundary layer of a fluid isn't new; ask anyone in aerospace. But I'm not so sure this would make much of a noticeable difference for a small high velocity bullet.

Bullets are in the tricky part of the Reynolds Number spectrum where transition from laminar to turbulent can occur.

https://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/calc_reynolds.cfm#calc

 

[Geno C.]

I think he's talking about lowering BC variance from bullet to bullet, not the overall BC value.

I have no experience with the Tubb nose ring modification, but fluid dynamics was my profession for a time. The concept of making an adjustment to a surface in order to affect the boundary layer of a fluid isn't new; ask anyone in aerospace. But I'm not so sure this would make much of a noticeable difference for a small high velocity bullet.

I know what he is asking. I’m stating the ring causes a decrease in bc. Why would someone want that when a copper solid can already be made at a very consistent bc?

 

[jzerfoss]

I know what he is asking. I’m stating the ring causes a decrease in bc. Why would someone want that when a copper solid can already be made at a very consistent bc?

Supposedly also helps during transonic transition too. Idk if it's true or not

 

[Geno C.]

If you spin them fast enough, they’ll transition just fine without the loss of bc though. I guess I just see it doing just as much harm as good.

 

[badassgunworks]

The nose ring will help certain bullet designs transition better. The nose ring does 100% reduce the ballistic coefficient the bullet that is the whole idea behind it. It reduces the BC so that the front and the back of the bullet shock waves through transition are closer to each other thus causing the bullet to be more stable through transition however this is only useful on a bullet that is not designed properly to transition to the best of its ability the nose ring in my personal opinion is a waste of time. Choose the bullet that transitions better and has a higher BC and you're better off not to mention that a higher BC bullet transmission will be at a much further distance thus eliminating the need to even be concerned about transition and a match setting.

 

[badassgunworks]

It makes a huge

I think he's talking about lowering BC variance from bullet to bullet, not the overall BC value.

I have no experience with the Tubb nose ring modification, but fluid dynamics was my profession for a time. The concept of making an adjustment to a surface in order to affect the boundary layer of a fluid isn't new; ask anyone in aerospace. But I'm not so sure this would make much of a noticeable difference for a small high velocity bullet.

It makes a huge difference when a bullet does not transition well due its boat tail design . Bc variance is more of a inconsistant difference in bullet quality the nose ring wont make a bullet more consistant its a patch for a design problem

 

[308pirate]

Is there wind tunnel testing available to review?

 

[rtB]

Bc is a number. It has nothing to do, nothing, with how well it translates through supersonic to subsonic. Nothing.

 

[Geno C.]

Bc is a number. It has nothing to do, nothing, with how well it translates through supersonic to subsonic. Nothing.

But it does have to do with where it transitions

 

[Steel head]

The nose ring will help certain bullet designs transition better. The nose ring does 100% reduce the ballistic coefficient the bullet that is the whole idea behind it. It reduces the BC so that the front and the back of the bullet shock waves through transition are closer to each other thus causing the bullet to be more stable through transition however this is only useful on a bullet that is not designed properly to transition to the best of its ability the nose ring in my personal opinion is a waste of time. Choose the bullet that transitions better and has a higher BC and you're better off not to mention that a higher BC bullet transmission will be at a much further distance thus eliminating the need to even be concerned about transition and a match setting.

Interesting!

 

[THEIS]

Is there wind tunnel testing available to review?

Hi,

Now why you have to go about asking for validation, verification, proof, independent lab results, etc etc (Whatever you want to call it, lol)??
That is not how this industry works as a whole....
I bet you something as simple as CFD have not even been done......Come to think of it; I think I will do some to compare a few different mono manufacturers with and without nose ring.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[rtB]

BC tells nothing about where and how well a bullet will transit transonic. Try it. Shoot 2 bullets with the same bc. They'll match exactly, or not. Or not.

 

[Geno C.]

BC tells nothing about where and how well a bullet will transit transonic. Try it. Shoot 2 bullets with the same bc. They'll match exactly, or not. Or not.

Higher bc bullet go going farther before it transitions all other things being equal. I have tried it

 

[badassgunworks]

BC tells nothing about where and how well a bullet will transit transonic. Try it. Shoot 2 bullets with the same bc. They'll match exactly, or not. Or not.

Take x bullet calculate bc. Then put a nose ring on it the bc will drop. Simple facts now that bullet has l lower bc at the same velocity it will go sub sonic earlier .

 

[THEIS]

BC tells nothing about where and how well a bullet will transit transonic. Try it. Shoot 2 bullets with the same bc. They'll match exactly, or not. Or not.

Hi,

So are you saying that a 300gr 338 with .7BC and 300gr 338 with .9BC with exact same MV from the EXACT same rifle will transition at the same distance?

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[badassgunworks]

Hi,

So are you saying that a 300gr 338 with .7BC and 300gr 338 with .9BC with exact same MV from the EXACT same rifle will transition at the same distance?

Sincerely,
Theis

Lol he belives the posted data on bullet bc remains even after nose ring is installed and that is not true

 

[badassgunworks]

BC tells nothing about where and how well a bullet will transit transonic. Try it. Shoot 2 bullets with the same bc. They'll match exactly, or not. Or not.

Correct bc has nothing to do with how well a bullet transitions design does. But it will dictate at what distance it goes threw transition. The nose ring is a patch for a problem. Helps one issue but causes another

 

[Dogtown]

Mmm...CFD...heaven is a tiny dT and voxel resolution.

 

[rtB]

I would just ask, if you shot 2 different bullets, with the same BC, at the same MV, would they hit the same hold? And how would those two bullets transition to transotic? Any caliber, doesn't matter.

 

[JB.IC]

Here’s a post from Facebook related to the Nose Ring. I’m not sure how it’ll add to the conversation other than showing it does reduce the BC as David has already said it would.

The 505 WFL advertised BC is G1 1.200

David Tubb had a 3 shot group at 1000 yds yesterday with TUBBGUN™ in 41XC that had a SD3 of 3 and vertical spread of .2 inches. His 41XC brass is on its 5th firing. 128 grains H1000 with TUBBDUSTmixed in powder shooting a Warner 505 grain flatline with 1:8 twist 33inch Schneider barrel
Oehler 88 shows a muzzle velocity of 2804 fps but that’s more than 12 feet away from end of barrel. Magneto speed velocity is 2825 fps.

David says he has been consistently been getting 10 shot groups with SDs less than 5. There has been no annealing.

 

[308pirate]

Hi,

Now why you have to go about asking for validation, verification, proof, independent lab results, etc etc (Whatever you want to call it, lol)??
That is not how this industry works as a whole....
I bet you something as simple as CFD have not even been done......Come to think of it; I think I will do some to compare a few different mono manufacturers with and without nose ring.

Sincerely,
Theis

LOL when it comes matter within my professional lane, I rarely ask a question I don't already know the answer to.......Same as you I imagine.

So, no, not surprised at all that there's shit for evidence that this "ring" works.

 

[308pirate]

It reduces the BC so that the front and the back of the bullet shock waves through transition are closer to each other thus causing the bullet to be more stable through transition however this is only useful on a bullet that is not designed properly to transition to the best of its ability the nose ring in my personal opinion is a waste of time. Choose the bullet that transitions better and has a higher BC and you're better off not to mention that a higher BC bullet transmission will be at a much further distance thus eliminating the need to even be concerned about transition and a match setting.

Pardon me if I don't take your word for it.

Got any verifiable evidence of that behavior? CFD analysis? Or even better wind tunnel data?

Asking for a friend......

 

[badassgunworks]

Pardon me if I don't take your word for it.

Got any verifiable evidence of that behavior? CFD analysis? Or even better wind tunnel data?

Asking for a friend......

Ask your friend to ask the question.

 

[308pirate]

Ask your friend to ask the question.

Yep, just like I thought. More firearms industry snake oil bullshit

 

[badassgunworks]

I would just ask, if you shot 2 different bullets, with the same BC, at the same MV, would they hit the same hold? And how would those two bullets transition to transotic? Any caliber, doesn't matter.

If you put a nose ring on any bullet it will reduce the bc thus have a different drop rate but may transition better if the design needs it but could make transition worse of the boattail is optomized . Now if you compair for example 2 different manufactors bullets of the same caliber and grain weight does not mean their bc will ne the same compair a cutting edge 338 to a badlands 338 of the same grain weight the badlands will transition much further down range due to a much higher bc . And will have a much closer bc from shot to shot due to tighter tolerance

 

[badassgunworks]

Yep, just like I thought. More firearms industry snake oil bullshit

Proof is in design . By testing shooting and proof of results on targes at all ranges and radar conformations over and threw transonic . Results are prooven threw test . Changes in designs are proven by results

 

[308pirate]

Proof is in design . By testing shooting and proof of results on targes at all ranges and radar conformations over and threw transonic . Results are prooven threw test . Changes in designs are proven by results

If you say so..........

 

[steve podleski]

Hi,

Now why you have to go about asking for validation, verification, proof, independent lab results, etc etc (Whatever you want to call it, lol)??
That is not how this industry works as a whole....
I bet you something as simple as CFD have not even been done......Come to think of it; I think I will do some to compare a few different mono manufacturers with and without nose ring.

Sincerely,
Theis

2d or 3d? How do you model transition from laminar to turbulent...trip wire?

 

[steve podleski]

Not sure what CFD will prove except that drag will increase with a turbulent boundary layer. What CFD may possibly do is predict the transition point to turbulence but that depends on bullet velocity.