TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCA4570</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chrisdx3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any pictures? I would like to see what I missed out on
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To guy's that were there, what was your most priceless moment?
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It would have to be a whole day of walking onto targets from spotter corrections on Saturday, then Sunday taking all I learned and hitting 9/12 targets on the short course and cleaning the final stage on it with first round hits. That did it for me as a shooter who hadn't been past 200 yards previously. I'm still wearing that grin.
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

[/quote]
To guy's that were there, what was your most priceless moment?
[/quote]

My best moments weren't the first shot hits, but missing, seeing the impact, and making my own adjustments to hit the target were the best.
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thePerforator</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCA4570</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chrisdx3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any pictures? I would like to see what I missed out on
frown.gif
</div></div>

To guy's that were there, what was your most priceless moment?
</div></div>

It would have to be a whole day of walking onto targets from spotter corrections on Saturday, then Sunday taking all I learned and hitting 9/12 targets on the short course and cleaning the final stage on it with first round hits. That did it for me as a shooter who hadn't been past 200 yards previously. I'm still wearing that grin. </div></div>

branden,

you did really well and i was impressed with how much you were absorbing and figuring things out. this is what it is all about. hope to see you out there again.

doug
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

I think we may have some new shooters.

The progression the new shooters made was great. I was impressed with each shooter. When we made it to position 4,we were giving a test. This was school,all day long. The last stage was self-evualation. I was impressed with the teamwork shown. Targets were hit. Targets were missed. Either way it went, I could tell all were learning. Each one.

The new shooters should have been able to see where their ablilties and equipment were strong or lacking. The thing to do now use what you learned with what you have and practice.


Doug,Glen,Wayde- I want to say thanks for providing us with food for Saturday night and Sunday morning.


Tom- You know I usually thank you before I leave. I didn't yesterday. I wanted to do it here,in public.

Thanks for asking me to help. It was a pleasure. Teaching new shooters is more fun to me than teaching guys how to replace my job. I hope it was what you were looking for.



van(Karl)
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

Thanks again to Tom and crew. I noticed a huge improvement in my shooting yesterday from my last visit a few weeks ago. Had I not made a few bonehead mistakes dialing in dope, a likely improvement in score as well.

I'm looking forward to coming back for the short course in a few weeks.
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

Thanks to all the new shooters who showed up to learn what it takes to call yourself a long range precision marksmen.
Thanks to all our staff who helped out. Doug/dgunn, Karl/van, Wayde/breeze, Jim/Hannabal Chris/tellus Glen/tc45 all others who helped spot and call corrections. Thanks for the food Saturday night, too bad we couldn't stay out there longer but mother nature and the gods of thunder/lighting had plans too.
What an awesome weekend. I enjoyed this one the most I think.
So many shooters grinning ear to ear with good things to say.
Our scheduled events worked out perfect with time. Everyone who wanted to got to shoot a 1000 yard target..for the first time.
More grins.
This is what I enjoy most as I've said many times. I love to teach folks how to shoot. I'm working on one more newbe shoot date. July schedule will be posted this week.

Thanks again,
Tom Sarver
TVP
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

My newbie day was Janury 09.
Ran 5 over the chrony and recieved a drop chart.
Went to the top of the hill.
Lo and behold the first target was 550!
I was still shooting my first 100 rounds, and had shot a target that far, the october before.
I hit it on my first shot and thought, hey this is easy!
Learned I didn't have enough scope to get to 950.
I didn't get discouraged.
I wanted to learn.
For somebody to tell me two years ago that I would be considered a teacher of long range shooting, I would say they were crazy!

Hard to describe in words how much fun this weekend was!

Thanks Tom

Glen
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

I noticed many different things this weekend.
Nobody completed station one in the time frame.
We didn't expect you to.
Most were on target two or three.
Last team was already engaging target four.
Station two we kept you to eight min for score.
At the same time we also let you finish station.
(just for you, no score.)
Several teams finished in time.
I believe at the third station three teams got the five min bonus points!
At station four, Karl taught you how to work together.

Everything you learned saturday you put into place Sunday!
Just standing back and watching you guys work together taught me a lot.

Sorry Francis, but I know you understand!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrllCZw8jiM

TC
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

I really got a kick out of seeing the change in shooters.

There were some pretty grim, graven faces coming down from Position 1 after folks saw where the Intimidator takes its name. Those faces began lighting up throughout the weekend as they worked onto the targets & the frequency of ringing steel increased. There were grins at the benches Saturday evening. More on Sunday's short course. Branden's face smiled in half when he cleaned the last Position. He's also trying to figure out who he can use that husband/wife joke on.

All the guys (Wayde, Doug, Glen, et. al.) with the food & beverages, thanks a bunch. Those beans Wayde, may have to get the recipe. Dgunn, thanks for the burgers & comedic abuse.

M. Richardson, someone (Bohem?) picked up your hammer. Sure they'll be in touch.

Great to meet all the new shooters, come on back, I had a great time meeting everyone, spotting & helping. Tom, thanks for yet another great weekend.
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

Hmmm...my most priceless moment??? I would say watching Beth shoot my .260 and hitting the 12"x12" steel plate at 600 and 1000 yards...on the first shot! What a smile that was. Rick..you may just get that TigerShark after all!

Tom
TVP
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thePerforator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doug's perfectly timed comment about banging on Sarver's window Saturday night was another one I won't be soon forgetting. </div></div>

that was some funny shit! capt moron was starting to steer the ship at that point.
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Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010


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Jim saying HI
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To everyone of the new shooters it was great to see how you enjoyed the day at TVP. I had a great time helping introduce you to something I love. Some of your faces said it all. To the ones who shot with us Sunday, it was a blast watching improve from the day before.
Hope to see you again
Wayde

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And Thanks to Tom and the other elves
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

Tullius, I shot a PM over to captrich, I have the hammer.

This was an awesome weekend, as soon as I can get back I plan on being there. Hopefully I'll make a double/double weekend in July if my visiting family doesn't get in the way...

I couldn't have been happier about staying over and shooting sunday as well, thanks don't begin to convey the gratitude. Tom's come up with an extremely generous day of shooting and training, I drove 7.5 hours to make it, it would have been worth douoble that.

Glen, Karl, Wayde, Chris, Doug, Jim. Thank you for offering your time and teaching with Tom, all the help and patience on Saturday.

I will never forget watching Karl and Jim shoot stage 1 on sunday morning in 58 sec...
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

I wonder,out of the 23 shooters present on Saturday-

What was your longest shot before Saturday?

What was your longest first or second round hit on Saturday?

Those that did have chronograph and had a drop sheet made,did the numbers work out? If not,how much of a difference was there?

If you gained only one thing last Saturday. What would that be?
Would you have any others?

What were your thoughts when we were at position four? Did you like the idea of making your shots and making corrections on your own or as a team?

Did you see any strong points or weak points with your equipment?What would you change?


I had these questions at the end of the day on Saturday. I didn't have the chance to ask everyone. Thats why I'm asking here.


Thanks-
van(Karl)
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder,out of the 23 shooters present on Saturday-

What was your longest shot before Saturday?</div></div>

722 yards confirmed kill on a g'hog.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What was your longest first or second round hit on Saturday?</div></div>

position #3, #3 target = 1,040 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those that did have chronograph and had a drop sheet made,did the numbers work out? If not,how much of a difference was there?</div></div>

Karl, I already had a drop chart before we made one....I had you make one because I was curious as to what program you were using. The only difference is that I used a 1.82" sight height versus the 2" you entered.

MOA varied by less than 1/2MOA out to 1200 yards.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you gained only one thing last Saturday. What would that be?
Would you have any others?</div></div>

TRUST my windage turrett on my scope! Prior to Saturday....at long range I would always "hold off". NOT anymore.....those g'hogs don't have a chance now!!
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What were your thoughts when we were at position four? Did you like the idea of making your shots and making corrections on your own or as a team?</div></div>

..typically on the g'hog fields....I need to "call" my misses..so it was nothing different from what I was used to....although having a teammate was nice on those occasions when I did not see my miss...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you see any strong points or weak points with your equipment?What would you change?</div></div>


..yeah....any chance I can find some weight loss pills for my #20 "carry gun"......
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seriously....I am in the process of changing the stock...should be done in a couple of weeks...


other then that....nothing really.....what I am really happy about is that fact that my 1,000 yard group was shot with virgin brass that was just being fire-formed....

thanks Karl......MM says Hi....
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: van</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder,out of the 23 shooters present on Saturday-

What was your longest shot before Saturday?</div></div>
650yd on a 6" plate, first round out of the case

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What was your longest first or second round hit on Saturday?</div></div>

1040yd, 2nd round on Stage 3, Target 4
703 yd, 1st round on Stage 4, Target 3

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Those that did have chronograph and had a drop sheet made,did the numbers work out? If not,how much of a difference was there?</div></div>

The rifle I shot Saturday I didn't have good dope for, but the rifle on Sunday my dope matched perfectly, I verified before the match.

I used the chrono data from Saturday and compared the Ballistic! results to the Sierra Infinity results. They were pretty close, within ~ 1/2 minute generally. My copy of Ballistic! is running the JBM Engine, it seems to work very well, this verified that for me.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If you gained only one thing last Saturday. What would that be?
Would you have any others?</div></div>

Dial your initial wind/elevation corrections and hold the rest. Good dope is going to be pretty close, use that expensive reticle how it was designed and make the follow up shot quicker. Taking the time to dial little corrections can lead to mistakes dialing under pressure (spin the knob the wrong way) and the wind can change in a heartbeat there. If saw your miss, check the correction before even loading the next round, load and fire.

I also got a much better appreciation for shooting elevation changes and trying to read wind with mirage and the land. There's a big difference shooting a flat, groomed range with consistent wind calls and shooting at TVP in the wind.

Double check equipment well ahead of time, there's no "do-overs" under time. This is something I know from past ass-bites by Murphy but I thought I could get away with it this time... nope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What were your thoughts when we were at position four? Did you like the idea of making your shots and making corrections on your own or as a team?</div></div>

I think this was an excellent final application for shooters, especially those that stayed to shoot the short course the following day.

I usually shoot alone so I have to do the job myself and it's frustrating if I don't see my miss, it is pretty nice to have a spotter there shooting the same reticle that gives good calls.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Did you see any strong points or weak points with your equipment?What would you change?</div></div>

Putting a new rifle through it's paces should be done well before traveling to shoot an unfamiliar location with little support equipment. Both rifles that Francis and I shot Saturday were very new, Sunday was a whole different ballgame with reliability for my rifle because I'd had the time to sort it out and really do good load testing and DOPE check before bringing it to match conditions.

Karl- Thank you for the help over the weekend, it was a pleasure meeting you and I've made some notes on the weekend to review before I get there to shoot again, I aim to improve my scores on the next visit.
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

Thank-you Dave!
I'll see what I have that is different than what Wayde already posted.

As you see from the group pic, this shoot was for you guy's!
If you are thinking of more questions just ask.

Seeing three teams get the bonus on station three, their first time through taught me a lot!
Each target required dope and position change.

Presure? Yeah, a bunch!
Possible? Yep, you proved it.
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: van</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder,out of the 23 shooters present on Saturday-

What was your longest shot before Saturday?

What was your longest first or second round hit on Saturday?

Those that did have chronograph and had a drop sheet made,did the numbers work out? If not,how much of a difference was there?

If you gained only one thing last Saturday. What would that be?
Would you have any others?

What were your thoughts when we were at position four? Did you like the idea of making your shots and making corrections on your own or as a team?

Did you see any strong points or weak points with your equipment?What would you change?


I had these questions at the end of the day on Saturday. I didn't have the chance to ask everyone. Thats why I'm asking here.


Thanks-
van(Karl)

</div></div>
I had chrony data and drop sheet made prior to Saturday, and the best I could tell, I may be a 1/2 minute low at 1000. I was never given any corrections that were over 1 minute for the drop the whole day, so I know my drop is dang close.

I was the first shooter at each position and my partner and I weren't really prepared for the pressure that came with that, even if it was mostly self inflicted pressure. I told Mickie that we screwed up when we sighed the sheet first. I could not be happier with my equipment really. I had the idea that the 6BR I was shooting would probably be better suited for 600 yard shots, but I was really impressing with how it performed at longer distances. It seemed to be right there kicking up dirt on the target all the time. I checked my 100 yd zero today to see how well the Vortex tracked after all the adjusting on Saturday and it was dead on vertically and a click or two off horizontally. I would like to try one of the sandbags that strap around your off hand. I liked calling the corrections at the last station, but again, partner and I were the guinea pigs and it rattled us a bit. We did communicate well and we realized after the round that his turrents were a full revolution off at the start of the position. We picked up a few tips so this wouldn't happen again though.

I would say the biggest thing I gained was confidence. Mainly confidence in my equipment. The gun was new and my first build, and I had been putting a lot of pressure on myself the past month to get my loads the way I thought they should perform. 7 trips to the range and 250 rounds of load development and I couldn't be happier with the results. However, I'm already thinking of building a dedidcated rifle for the long course and using the 6BR for the short. I think I see a 6.5x47 Lapua in my future.

When Tom and the guys say you will learn more in a day at TVP than you thought possible, they are spot on.
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

I heard you guys comenting about that, but you didn't let it Phase you!
You worked together with a situation that you were given.
You had no chance to learn the stations from others, and were the only two get first shot hits at station one, target one!

You guy's proved there is no such thing as a wind dummy!
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

Newbes-

So far so good on the comments,thanks.

I see those that have answered have thought this out.


MDM-
I will make this comment about being first. Don't worry about it. I know all eyes are on you and what your results are. The application everybody was in,it was a learning environment. Now if were a competition that may be a different situation. I don't think much of one though. It seemed to me you and your partner handled yourselves well. When I am first I do not worry about it. I treat it like any other time.


van
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

Average distance for all 16 targets, my numbers, is 687.
Take out the two long and two short, it becomes 586.
Don't think anyone would use the same dope for target one at station one and two, even though they are they same yardage.

Just curious.
What was the most wind you had cranked in Saturday?

Glen
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCA4570</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Average distance for all 16 targets, my numbers, is 687.
Take out the two long and two short, it becomes 586.
Don't think anyone would use the same dope for target one at station one and two, even though they are they same yardage.

Just curious.
What was the most wind you had cranked in Saturday?

Glen


</div></div>
I had first shot hits on both Postition 1 and 2 target #1. I had the same value for drop (11.5 min). I used 3 min of windage for P 1 Target #1, and I really can't remember the wind for P 2 Target #1, I'm thinking the wind was more in our face then and I didn't use any, but I'm not 100% certain. The most wind I used all day was 10 min on the 1165 target - didn't hit it, but was close.
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

We are talking about the same targets, being shot from different ranges too.
S3T3, I have as 585.
10MOA up.
3 first round hits and one zero.
t4 the same @ 1000.

One shot one kill was
2.75
5.0
10.0
36.0
for station three.
Wind crank was just kinda automatic.
No time to figure out or write, just do.
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

If it wasn't for us pushing you Saturday, how many think you could have done as good as you did Sunday?
Many had never shot over 300 yards before Sat.
550 and under was easy for you Sunday!

6.5 WSSM
1104 fifth round hit with a 308.
Chuckie doesn't know what's going on.
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

I meant S3T4, not T3 in my post above. My mistake.

The distance is not anywhere near the factor that the wind is. I can put hard numbers for MV and BC into the calculator adn get very close on the drop. If I don't estimate the wind right I'm not going to get anywhere near the target.
 
Re: TVP "newbe" Range Day June 12th 2010

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: van</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder,out of the 23 shooters present on Saturday-

What was your longest shot before Saturday?

What was your longest first or second round hit on Saturday?

Those that did have chronograph and had a drop sheet made,did the numbers work out? If not,how much of a difference was there?

If you gained only one thing last Saturday. What would that be?
Would you have any others?

What were your thoughts when we were at position four? Did you like the idea of making your shots and making corrections on your own or as a team?

Did you see any strong points or weak points with your equipment?What would you change?


I had these questions at the end of the day on Saturday. I didn't have the chance to ask everyone. Thats why I'm asking here.


Thanks-
van(Karl)

</div></div>

Longest shot, 600yrds with diff equipment (AR. irons. match conditions, flat range) The equipment I shot had no confirmed zeros past 100 till I got to TVP, First Newbe mistake!

Longest Hit, Was 2 rnds hit S4T3 730 (Yeah it took me that long)

I came with a JBM generated drop chart, my zeros from 100/600 were right on, from there on out they begain grow by as much as 1.5 MOA. ( Confirmed this Sun AM)

Learned Sat. I need to Practice/Practice/Practice with my equipment. I will make no changes in what I have. I know it will shoot better than I can! Since returning to IN I have acquired a place to shoot out to 1000yrds. Picking up some AR 400 this week. Just can't replicate the range hear flat flat flat!!

I also learned to trust my wind calls, as I dialed in to much wind most of the time, due to what I was hearing on the range and not to what I was seeing.

Position 4 was by far the most fun I had all day, Spotting for your partner made you pay attention to what was going on and by then I felt more comfortable with the whole process of finding targets, engaging, making corrections and moving the the next target. Until then I was not following thru and even looking for my own impact. I was just waiting for corrections.

Thanks again to the whole crew for a great experience. I know I will do better when I come back.