Rifle Scopes Two new rifles need two new scopes

[opherman47]

^^^ that and animals in woods that aren’t reflective street signs LOK

I’m done here, buy whatever you feel will make you happy. It’s no skin off of my ass if you spend thousands of dollars to go hunting and miss your chance at an animal because you can’t find your 3x FFP reticle.

I guess I'll have to find out... I do appreciate you taking the time to weigh in.. I just don't fancy having to be at full zoom for the reticle to line up maybe I'll change my mind after I get some more experience.

 

[fdkay]

I guess I'll have to find out... I do appreciate you taking the time to weigh in.. I just don't fancy having to be at full zoom for the reticle to line up maybe I'll change my mind after I get some more experience.

I'm just wondering, in a hunting situation, why are you worried about that? You're not using the reticle for ranging.
You're not likely using it for hold offs, you can pick a point on the animal.
You're not using it for corrections on a missed shot, as the animal is moving and very likely high tailing it out of the area.
The scope I recommended has the information for different subtensions in your field of view in the scope.
On a high magnification scope, I certainly see the benefits of ffp, but on a medium power scope that tops out at 15x, there isn't much in the way of benefits.

 

[carbonbased]

I mean, because of the wide, wide end (with nuclear-bright center illumination) and decent 10x at the top end, a Vortex Razor Gen III 1-10 might work.

Not sure how well that’d work near dusk. I haven’t used mine for hunting. Just an off the cuff idea.

Maybe more cash than you want to spend.

What are you hunting?

 

[opherman47]

I'm just wondering, in a hunting situation, why are you worried about that? You're not using the reticle for ranging.
You're not likely using it for hold offs, you can pick a point on the animal.
You're not using it for corrections on a missed shot, as the animal is moving and very likely high tailing it out of the area.
The scope I recommended has the information for different subtensions in your field of view in the scope.
On a high magnification scope, I certainly see the benefits of ffp, but on a medium power scope that tops out at 15x, there isn't much in the way of benefits.

I think about 500 yards is as far as I would kill an animal at. I don't want to have to do math if I'm not at Max zoom, holdovers for wind and occasionally elevation seem reasonable. The trijicon looked really good, If I'm not liking these scopes I will dump them and look at maybe something like that as far as a reticle. When I talked to the people at vortex on the customer service chat they recommended the LHT.. a lot of these Scopes just have Christmas trees right now.

Most people I talk to recommended first focal plane although there were some that really recommended second focal plane. When I talk to the guys at eurooptic they also recommended the LHT 4.5-22.

Which I think out to a 700 meters of 15 power scope should be okay. I'm not sure because right now I only have a 5x25 se And those 4x32 nx8s. If I have one of those many thousand dollar hunt of a lifetime type deals I think I might spring for a khales or something. I just don't know what I just don't know right now.

My plan is to get a block of a few days of private instruction down at rifle only, as soon as I can get my consulting schedule freed up. At that point who knows maybe I need to sell everything...

Maybe I should order a trijicon and compare. I think that reticle would be more than adequate but it does feel nice to also have something that can hold over if you want.

It really sucks to be stupid on this stuff and want to get set up in such a landscape of differing opinions and the normal crazy internet stuff.

 

[opherman47]

I mean, because of the wide, wide end (with nuclear-bright center illumination) and decent 10x at the top end, a Vortex Razor Gen III 1-10 might work.

Not sure how well that’d work near dusk. I haven’t used mine for hunting. Just an off the cuff idea.

Maybe more cash than you want to spend.

What are you hunting?

I looked at that and people were saying if you're going to want a little bit more magnification than that.

 

[fdkay]

Keep in mind, both the Army and Marine Corps ran 10x optics for a very long time. For medium size game and up, 10x is sufficient. 15 or 16 x is good as well. What you need to be careful of, is too much magnification. You'll want to zoom in and you lose your field of view.
If you have the money, the nightforce 2.5-20 would be a good choice.

 

[opherman47]

Keep in mind, both the Army and Marine Corps ran 10x optics for a very long time. For medium size game and up, 10x is sufficient. 15 or 16 x is good as well. What you need to be careful of, is too much magnification. You'll want to zoom in and you lose your field of view.
If you have the money, the nightforce 2.5-20 would be a good choice.

Exactly, but since I have the 2 of the 4-32 in the nx8. I think for these other rifles I'm gonna try the 2 of the new strike eagles in 3-18... One thing that I was bummed to learn is that night force doesn't warranty their electronics past 3 years. Sounds good as well... But comparing the strike eagle to the NX8 today in the snow, it compared very favorably... No I don't have the experience to comment on chromatic aberration and all this other stuff that gets thrown about here. But from the perspective of being able to reach out and touch someone at the ranges for those chamberings. It seemed good. I was pretty certain I was going to end up with the LHT 4.5 to 22. But I think the 18 is gonna be adequate.

I am really starting to question The idea of an overly expensive rifle mounted scope.

At least how it is seeming to me at this time although I'm still learning and very new, is that getting at least for hunting, highest quality binoculars and spotters as you can get, And then an adequate and reliable rifle mounted scope.

Do you think that is bad thinking?

 

[Aftermath]

I just don't fancy having to be at full zoom for the reticle to line up maybe I'll change my mind after I get some more experience.

That's just it.

If by saying "the reticle to line up" you mean that the stadia lines are representing actual mils or MOA, then you are most likely correct. I'm not sure why that would be important at all if you have taken the time to gather DOPE, unless you plan to use a LRF and dial for every single shot. I have found that hunting conditions often do not allow me much time to range, dial, aim etc....

Using a SFP scope, your stadia lines at some particular zoom (depending on ballistics) will coincide with yardages. For example, I have a Zeiss Conquest HD5 2-10x42. I'm shooting a Sierra 7mm 175 gr bullet at 2554 fps. The Zeiss tool tells me the optimal zoom is 7 power. Go check it out. Sight in at 100 yards but be 2.3" high. The next stadia line down will be nuts on at 297 yards (just call it 300, eh?), the third line down will be nuts on at 393 yards (400?), then 497, 598. I can leave that scope on 7x, range the target and hold very effectively.

If I range the target at 1174 yards, I can dial down to 2x and hold on one of the stadia lines.

There is more. But...there ya go.

I have and use FFP scopes but not on my hunting rifles, mainly for the reasons already explained.

 

[opherman47]

That's just it.

If by saying "the reticle to line up" you mean that the stadia lines are representing actual mils or MOA, then you are most likely correct. I'm not sure why that would be important at all if you have taken the time to gather DOPE, unless you plan to use a LRF and dial for every single shot. I have found that hunting conditions often do not allow me much time to range, dial, aim etc....

Using a SFP scope, your stadia lines at some particular zoom (depending on ballistics) will coincide with yardages. For example, I have a Zeiss Conquest HD5 2-10x42. I'm shooting a Sierra 7mm 175 gr bullet at 2554 fps. The Zeiss tool tells me the optimal zoom is 7 power. Go check it out. Sight in at 100 yards but be 2.3" high. The next stadia line down will be nuts on at 297 yards (just call it 300, eh?), the third line down will be nuts on at 393 yards (400?), then 497, 598. I can leave that scope on 7x, range the target and hold very effectively.

If I range the target at 1174 yards, I can dial down to 2x and hold on one of the stadia lines.

There is more. But...there ya go.

I have and use FFP scopes but not on my hunting rifles, mainly for the reasons already explained.

So this is where my inexperience shows. If it's within a certain range it should be point and shoot. But once it goes long I do intend on LRF and kestrel... Or even possibly the tremor reticles on the NX-8's that I have.

 

[Aftermath]

Yeah....
I challenge you to use a reticle to range with. Go range a bunch of stuff, like say stop signs. That should be simple. Uniform size, sharp edges. Range a bunch of them and then check with your LRF.

 

[opherman47]

Yeah....
I challenge you to use a reticle to range with. Go range a bunch of stuff, like say stop signs. That should be simple. Uniform size, sharp edges. Range a bunch of them and then check with your LRF.

I was talking about the holdover for wind... The wind dots. Not ranging with the reticle

 

[fdkay]

Exactly, but since I have the 2 of the 4-32 in the nx8. I think for these other rifles I'm gonna try the 2 of the new strike eagles in 3-18... One thing that I was bummed to learn is that night force doesn't warranty their electronics past 3 years. Sounds good as well... But comparing the strike eagle to the NX8 today in the snow, it compared very favorably... No I don't have the experience to comment on chromatic aberration and all this other stuff that gets thrown about here. But from the perspective of being able to reach out and touch someone at the ranges for those chamberings. It seemed good. I was pretty certain I was going to end up with the LHT 4.5 to 22. But I think the 18 is gonna be adequate.

I am really starting to question The idea of an overly expensive rifle mounted scope.

At least how it is seeming to me at this time although I'm still learning and very new, is that getting at least for hunting, highest quality binoculars and spotters as you can get, And then an adequate and reliable rifle mounted scope.

Do you think that is bad thinking?

I get the whole cost thing.
I also think your plan on getting traiing is a good one.
Everything has a price, if you don't spend enough, then that price might be a failure in the field at the worst possible time.
I like Vortex products, I like the company, they are a bunch of stand up folks there.
However, I am not a huge fan of their Chinese made optics. They tend to fail. Will Vortex reapair/replace? Yes, absolutely. Doesn't do you a whole lot of good when you're out on the stand.
IMHO, Athlon does a much better job with their Chinese scopes than does Vortex.
Vortex does a better job with their Japanese scopes than does Athlon.
Have you considered the Tract Toric 2.5-15 hunting scope. It is a well made Japan sourced scope. It is a couple of hundred more than the strike eagle, but less than 1000 dollars.
They have a FFP, illuminated model with a reticle designed for hunting, it is a simple holdover Mil reticle that is just a bit heavier than many of the fine reticles that are hard to pick up. At low power, you use it ilke a duplex reticle.
@koshkin has experience with the Tract huning scope.

TORIC UHD 30mm 2.5-15X44 FFP Illuminated MRAD/MRAD Hunting Rifle Scope

tractoptics.com

 

[opherman47]

I just ordered two strike eagles 3-18 FFP.

Thing I like about vortex is I can always get somebody on the phone or on chat and the ethics of how they handled the Liberty optic debacle and all that stuff is great.

That toric looks really awesome I like the idea of the thicker reticle. If these don't work out for me I will probably pick up one of those.

Thank you all for your input.

I really spent half my night awake reviewing my decisions between first and second focal plane.

After I get some good training my views on these things may change.

 

[sparky702]

I just ordered two strike eagles 3-18 FFP.

Thing I like about vortex is I can always get somebody on the phone or on chat and the ethics of how they handled the Liberty optic debacle and all that stuff is great.

That toric looks really awesome I like the idea of the thicker reticle. If these don't work out for me I will probably pick up one of those.

Thank you all for your input.

I really spent half my night awake reviewing my decisions between first and second focal plane.

After I get some good training my views on these things may change.

Well I do have a strike eagle 3x18x44 . It is mounted on my 20 inch 5.56 rifle that I shoot in prs gas gun matches . we only shoot out to 750 yds so that is the only input I can give . The glass is ok I have better and I have had worse I do think they are a bit over priced all the control's function well and the parallax adjust from 10 yds to infinity the windage turret is capped as it should be and the elevation turret is big and easy to get a hold of. the reticle is visible on 3x and the illumination will definatly work in the early morning and evening . I know nothing about the environment you are going to hunt in but I think you will be fine if hunting meadows or fields , in heavy timber it will work but a bit over kill in that environment . Good luck and have fun on your hunt's .

 

[Cr1775]

Well I do have a strike eagle 3x18x44 . It is mounted on my 20 inch 5.56 rifle that I shoot in prs gas gun matches . we only shoot out to 750 yds so that is the only input I can give . The glass is ok I have better and I have had worse I do think they are a bit over priced all the control's function well and the parallax adjust from 10 yds to infinity the windage turret is capped as it should be and the elevation turret is big and easy to get a hold of. the reticle is visible on 3x and the illumination will definatly work in the early morning and evening . I know nothing about the environment you are going to hunt in but I think you will be fine if hunting meadows or fields , in heavy timber it will work but a bit over kill in that environment . Good luck and have fun on your hunt's .

Overpriced? No, your paying for them to replace it a couple of times.

 

[sparky702]

Overpriced? No, your paying for them to replace it a couple of times.

I never had a problem with vortex . Find somebody else to argue with .

 

[Cr1775]

I never had a problem with vortex . Find somebody else to argue with .

I am not arguing anything just explaining that you aren't just paying for the scope but also for the warranty also. I think alot of people forget that when they say they think its overpriced. I also never had a problem with Vortex.

 

[opherman47]

Well I do have a strike eagle 3x18x44 . It is mounted on my 20 inch 5.56 rifle that I shoot in prs gas gun matches . we only shoot out to 750 yds so that is the only input I can give . The glass is ok I have better and I have had worse I do think they are a bit over priced all the control's function well and the parallax adjust from 10 yds to infinity the windage turret is capped as it should be and the elevation turret is big and easy to get a hold of. the reticle is visible on 3x and the illumination will definatly work in the early morning and evening . I know nothing about the environment you are going to hunt in but I think you will be fine if hunting meadows or fields , in heavy timber it will work but a bit over kill in that environment . Good luck and have fun on your hunt's .

Yeah I think that's exactly right I doubt I would ever make a shot over 5 or 600, If I'm hunting tight timber I've got different tools for that.

Everyone says you're paying for the warranty, well of course but if vortex wants to increase their profits they're going to want to make it to where almost nothing comes back.

For me I've got the best spotting scope and binos that vortex makes. If I can ever get the chance to look through a Swarovski I might consider upgrading.

But it seems to me at least in my current state of ignorance that putting the most money into what you will glass animals with makes more sense. After you find the animals and you work up to where you're going to make your shot you just need something that can allow you to make a functional shot.

Seeing the difference in quality between the nx8 and the strike eagle, pretty impressed with what you get from the vortex definitely functional. And I'm in the military so the price I paid seemed fantastic.


So again everyone says you pay for the warranty but if vortex seldom has to do warranty services as a percentage of their scopes then they come out ahead. And since I doubt we will ever get the failure rate per 1,000 scopes from any of the major manufacturers it's just conjecture at this point.

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

 

[Glassaholic]

How are first focal plane scopes for seeing the reticle at lower magnification in the 3-18 illum range

The best reticle I’ve seen in this range is the March 3-24 with FML-TR1H, the H part adds the low magnification quadrant similar to LPVO’s. Bushnell had a great idea with their G2H reticle. Super bright reticle is hard to come by at 3x or lower in MPVO’s. Would like to see a manufacturer crack that code.