Ultimatum Deuce 22LR

[Dthomas3523]

The duece was one of the more impressive things I saw at SHOT.

Very smooth and nice action.

If vudoo wasn’t so easily plug and play with ammo, I’d buy a duece. But I’m not interested in ammo/lot testing.

 

[littlepod]

I've been running a <= 60 degree throw for some time with my Tikka T3X and Tikka T1X. The Deuce is something I'm really leaning towards. I've never actually shot much with a 90 degree throw. @Dthomas3523 you have shot many, many rifles, is there any noticeable/realizable difference? I was about to order a V22, but now that I have my Tikka in an ACC running smoothly, I don't want to feel like I'm missing something / wanting something more. The Deuce is a gamble as I still haven't seen any shots from it, and I don't know what Ultimatum's customer service is like. I know Vudoo will take care of you.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I've been running a <= 60 degree throw for some time with my Tikka T3X and Tikka T1X. The Deuce is something I'm really leaning towards. I've never actually shot much with a 90 degree throw. @Dthomas3523 you have shot many, many rifles, is there any noticeable/realizable difference? I was about to order a V22, but now that I have my Tikka in an ACC running smoothly, I don't want to feel like I'm missing something / wanting something more. The Deuce is a gamble as I still haven't seen any shots from it, and I don't know what Ultimatum's customer service is like. I know Vudoo will take care of you.

I don’t see a huge difference unless you have your optic mounted low enough that you crush/hit your hand with a 90 deg.

I prefer a 60 *if* given the option. But I don’t notice any performance or speed difference. At least a difference worth quantifying.

I’d start with a Vudoo since you know exactly what to expect and then pick up other actions to experiment as time goes on.

Thats what I do. I have a vudoo for Rimfire and AI for centerfire that are my rock/constants. I then pick up other stuff. If I don’t like it or it needs some tweaking, I have those to fall back on no matter what.

 

[68hoyt]

Anything new on the deuce ?

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Anything new on the deuce ?

Yeah, what he said. I've come close several times getting a preorder in. I'm trying to find out the details with the IBI barrel before I commit.

 

[littlepod]

Yeah, what he said. I've come close several times getting a preorder in. I'm trying to find out the details with the IBI barrel before I commit.

It'll be Calfee IV from what Ryan said.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

It'll be Calfee IV from what Ryan said.

Yeah, I suspect it will be just like my 457 IBI barrel with maybe a different profile.

 

[68hoyt]

they are taking preorders , but thats for barreled actions , 20" and they look to have a barrel with the swell on the muzzle end to encourage a tight muzzle , so no threaded muzzle , wondering when the bare actions will be available ?

 

[68hoyt]

yeah , go tho the website , 50% down preorder , for barreled actions , I'm just wondering if anyone with inside connections had gotten an action to put their own barrel on , i like the deuce action

 

[goosed]

What on earth caused them to decide a pre-fit barrel w/ barrel nut and a non-threaded muzzle was the right way to go?

 

[littlepod]

I emailed them and they had no problem selling me an action. And I could buy the barrel nut and wrench separately as well $69 each.

 

[littlepod]

Are you going to try to tune it to ammo?

I ended up getting a Vudoo for now. I'll wait for others to report on the Deuce before I get one. I had planned to send just the action to a specialized smith who would've cut the barrel tenon / chamber etc and hand fit it all for me but I got impatient and wanted something now so Vudoo it is. By the time I get the action blank and all the work done I had figured it would have been May. Then I was hoping that Vudoo would have made their new announcement for the next gen repeater...

 

[srt-4_uk]

What on earth caused them to decide a pre-fit barrel w/ barrel nut and a non-threaded muzzle was the right way to go?

Assuming barrel nut so you can set your own head space depending on what ammo you wanted to use.
Non threaded barrel because.....ok you got me there.

 

[Dthomas3523]

What on earth caused them to decide a pre-fit barrel w/ barrel nut and a non-threaded muzzle was the right way to go?

Basically, this is what happens when a non Rimfire based company makes a Rimfire action.

The designed an awesome action, but at this point, they don’t know the ins and outs of the intricacies of .22 barrels. They will readily admit this, which is admirable of them. I expect they will become more knowledgeable with time as they seem like a good company.

So, what they have done is leave it end user adjustable the best as possible. The non threads goes with the barrel they have chosen based on their research thus far. They are attempting to give people the best chance for the most accurate barrel possible based upon the parameters. So, threaded muzzle goes by the wayside for this at the moment.

If I were buying one, I’d buy the action only and find a well know/proven quantity Rimfire gunsmith to install a barrel.

This is why I won’t be moving away from my vudoo for a duece. I really like the action and it feels awesome. But for basically the same price, I know I can order sk standard plus or center-x and go win a match the next day.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

I think Ultimatum is in a bad spot right now. After speaking with IBI, trying to find out what I can about the barrel the Deuce will have, I have found out that Ultimatum hasn't even placed an order for any barrels because they haven't decided on what barrel contour or chamber to use. Whoever pre ordered, I feel sorry for you, I can't see them getting your barreled action delivered by the end of March as their website states. I'm glad I did my due diligence before placing my pre order.

 

[goosed]

Basically, this is what happens when a non Rimfire based company makes a Rimfire action.

The designed an awesome action, but at this point, they don’t know the ins and outs of the intricacies of .22 barrels. They will readily admit this, which is admirable of them. I expect they will become more knowledgeable with time as they seem like a good company.

So, what they have done is leave it end user adjustable the best as possible. The non threads goes with the barrel they have chosen based on their research thus far. They are attempting to give people the best chance for the most accurate barrel possible based upon the parameters. So, threaded muzzle goes by the wayside for this at the moment.

If I were buying one, I’d buy the action only and find a well know/proven quantity Rimfire gunsmith to install a barrel.

This is why I won’t be moving away from my vudoo for a duece. I really like the action and it feels awesome. But for basically the same price, I know I can order sk standard plus or center-x and go win a match the next day.

It's admirable that they admit they don't know what they're doing... I guess... but I still don't understand why companies can't just go out and ask their intended target market what they want. Not like it's hard to find an nrl22 or prs22 match or even a forum that at least addresses those matches. We're certainly not shy about what we would like to see.

Even without asking it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out barreled action buyers are typically the guys that like having trigger and stock options, but want the simplicity of just bolting a few parts together and being able to hit the range without over thinking it.

Hopefully, the nut is at least a small enough diameter to not limit stock options and others will love it. I still want to handle the Deuce action as I might still pick up just the action, but the barreled action is now of zero interest to me.

 

[Dthomas3523]

It's admirable that they admit they don't know what they're doing... I guess... but I still don't understand why companies can't just go out and ask their intended target market what they want. Not like it's hard to find an nrl22 or prs22 match or even a forum that at least addresses those matches. We're certainly not shy about what we would like to see.

Even without asking it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out barreled action buyers are typically the guys that like having trigger and stock options, but want the simplicity of just bolting a few parts together and being able to hit the range without over thinking it.

Hopefully, the nut is at least a small enough diameter to not limit stock options and others will love it. I still want to handle the Deuce action as I might still pick up just the action, but the barreled action is now of zero interest to me.

The nut was pretty small when I saw it.

I agree though, the action would be what I bought. And then find someone who specializes in .22 to barrel it.

 

[littlepod]

The nut was pretty small when I saw it.

I agree though, the action would be what I bought. And then find someone who specializes in .22 to barrel it.

I worked with them a bit on this before I ultimately ended up deciding on the Vudoo. They were pretty open to sharing out some of their engineer specs/tenon measurements that my smith was asking for. I had thought somewhere they were going to basically use the Savage profile, but I wasn't sure. I didn't continue down that line as I just decided on the Vudoo.

I'd e-mail them if you have any questions, Derek was pretty helpful.

 

[Wrencoforge]

From the guys who threw IBI barrels on their tikka’s it would seem that they make a very accurate barrel..
question is will Ultimatum have the control over the end product barrel the way vudoo does? The man knows his shit, and has an eye for detail to make it happen.
Vudoo is using a number of contours from a number of manufacturers, and I haven’t heard of a single one not shooting.
Not gonna knock them yet, as only time will tell, but for now I’m saving my pennies for a vudoo..

 

[Dthomas3523]

From the guys who threw IBI barrels on their tikka’s it would seem that they make a very accurate barrel..
question is will Ultimatum have the control over the end product barrel the way vudoo does? The man knows his shit, and has an eye for detail to make it happen.
Vudoo is using a number of contours from a number of manufacturers, and I haven’t heard of a single one not shooting.
Not gonna knock them yet, as only time will tell, but for now I’m saving my pennies for a vudoo..

They won’t. They are making a point of making it end user adjustable.

 

[Wrencoforge]

That’s gonna be a big difference..
Who does the Gunsmithing seems to make a really big difference in rimfire. As do things like the chamber, headspace, etc...
I would never buy just a Vudoo action, because having them chamber and barrel it is a big part of the guns accuracy..
Doesn’t mean that these newer actions can’t shoot just as well, but there will be a lot more variables to get it to shoot..
Love the 3 lug action though..

 

[Wrencoforge]

sorry, double posted

 

[Mike_in_FL]

I'm rather clumsy and need to know about the durability. So has anybody dropped a Deuce?


























Sorry, I had to do it!

 

[bigwatchpilot]

Good lord you would have thought that the .22lr was invented last week and requires wizardry and a special potion of unicorn tears and eyes of a newt for the 'right' gunsmith to assemble. If you don't have the guy with the right name chamber the barrel...good luck? I call absolute B.S. and to think you need a barrel nut for a .22 to shoot accurate, well they are one of the few that think this. Nice to be unique and innovative, but so is Nicki Minaj.

 

[goosed]

For the guys worried about having barrels spun up, @LongRifles Inc. was/is an authorized Anschutz service center. If memory is correct I believe they were one of if not the first Anschutz service center in the USA.

They just might know a thing or two about rimfire barrels... Just saying.

 

[LRI]

For the guys worried about having barrels spun up, @LongRifles Inc. was/is an authorized Anschutz service center. If memory is correct I believe they were one of if not the first Anschutz service center in the USA.

They just might know a thing or two about rimfire barrels... Just saying.

Not the first, not by a long shot, but I did work for one once.

 

[LRI]

Good lord you would have thought that the .22lr was invented last week and requires wizardry and a special potion of unicorn tears and eyes of a newt for the 'right' gunsmith to assemble. If you don't have the guy with the right name chamber the barrel...good luck? I call absolute B.S. and to think you need a barrel nut for a .22 to shoot accurate, well they are one of the few that think this. Nice to be unique and innovative, but so is Nicki Minaj.

I will tell you this after exactly 23 years worth of fitting rimfire barrels: Its an easy job and an even easier job to screw up. Extractor angles matter. What really, really matters is ensuring the extractor cut's tangent point on the arc is well in front of the breech face so that you don't end up with a "gum wrapper" for wall thickness right at the base of the case rim. Ignoring this or being unaware of it is a guaranteed pathway to ensuring cases bulge and fail to extract properly.

Knowing what ammo the owner wants to run and being able to set up the throat's depth to bite the driving bands properly helps a bunch too.

Not hard, but tuition can get expensive in a hurry if you are not up to speed on it.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Good lord you would have thought that the .22lr was invented last week and requires wizardry and a special potion of unicorn tears and eyes of a newt for the 'right' gunsmith to assemble. If you don't have the guy with the right name chamber the barrel...good luck? I call absolute B.S. and to think you need a barrel nut for a .22 to shoot accurate, well they are one of the few that think this. Nice to be unique and innovative, but so is Nicki Minaj.

I think @RAVAGE88 would disagree.

I’ve seen more than a handful of Rimfire rifles screwed up by very competent centerfire gunsmiths.

 

[RAVAGE88]

I think @RAVAGE88 would disagree.

I’ve seen more than a handful of Rimfire rifles screwed up by very competent centerfire gunsmiths.

Everything Chad said above is absolutely correct. The "machining" isn't difficult at all but we stopped selling V-22 actions because all but two screwed up the extractor cuts. The screwed up barrel jobs then came to Vudoo to fix and it's not something we can do at no cost. Proper headspacing and chambering has also been a challenge for a multitude of "experienced" gunsmiths.

MB

 

[Trevor]

Apologies for bumping this thread

The Deuce action interests me 3 lug, short throw and 6"o'clock firing pin.

Is there any updates.
has anyone gotten the barrelled action and can post a review /comment

Cheers
Trevor

 

[AggieJack]

I looked at their facebook page yesterday and didn't see any photos of customer's finished builds or groups or podium photos so I'm guessing none or very few are in the wild.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Copied from an email I received from Derek Lee.

Derek Lee (Ultimatum Precision) Sep 29, 2020, 14:04 PDT Hi Timothy, The most current ETA from our production team for the Deuce is mid November. We will be going with the Calfee IV chamber Derek Lee Sales & Marketing Ultimatum Precision (778) 786-3582

 

[Adam B]

yeah it is mid november and there is nothing going on

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Thanks for the reminder, I just replied to Derek to get an update.

 

[Trevor]

I also reached out to the Ultimatum here is their response i am hoping Frank get one of the first runs so he can do a review.

Cheers

Hi Trevor,

Deuce is in production as we speak, we expect to have them complete and start shipping by the end of December/ early January at the latest!

Left hand version will be available in 2021, but no specific ETA as of yet.

Kind regards

Derek Lee
Sales & Marketing
Ultimatum Precision
(778) 786-3582

 

[Adam B]

This is a let down that they keep pushing back their release date. I am not holding my breath, I am going to guess 2nd quarter fo 2021.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Since my order in June/July, I keep getting told "next month" when I email them. When it comes to shipping times, they never reach out, don't update their website, and don't post updates on their social media. The fact I put down a deposit is what really kills me. If there are going to be delays, either keep me updated or don't take my money.

 

[Trevor]

Since my order in June/July, I keep getting told "next month" when I email them. When it comes to shipping times, they never reach out, don't update their website, and don't post updates on their social media. The fact I put down a deposit is what really kills me. If there are going to be delays, either keep me updated or don't take my money.

Wish i had better news and i don't have a reasonable answer for the delays; maybe Covid BUT more transparency would go along way.

I am a lefty, given the above I will wait until mid 2021 and check back before dropping pre-order dollars.

Trevor

 

[srt-4_uk]

Covid slowed down supply chains, not emails. Delays are understandable. Silent delays are not.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

It is a let down for sure. I agree, the least they could do is keep their website updated.

 

[littlepod]

I understand Covid slowing down supply chains... but I mean this isn't like they're making 5 a month, they haven't had 1 out there in production yet.

I think it's mainly around "getting things right" which is great. Better than shipping a bunch of defective units that they need to recall.

But from them promising me just an action (don't even care about the barrel) back in March, then it went June, then August, now December... I am guessing getting their thing to reliably feed and shoot at the quality that meets their bar is just a hard engineering task.

Same with Curtis promoting their 22LR conversion over a year ago, and nothing. They have shipped thousands of other actions, so it's not a Covid thing, they released the Valor. They still don't have a reliably working 22 yet.

 

[Gleedus]

I understand Covid slowing down supply chains... but I mean this isn't like they're making 5 a month, they haven't had 1 out there in production yet.

I think it's mainly around "getting things right" which is great. Better than shipping a bunch of defective units that they need to recall.

But from them promising me just an action (don't even care about the barrel) back in March, then it went June, then August, now December... I am guessing getting their thing to reliably feed and shoot at the quality that meets their bar is just a hard engineering task.

Same with Curtis promoting their 22LR conversion over a year ago, and nothing. They have shipped thousands of other actions, so it's not a Covid thing, they released the Valor. They still don't have a reliably working 22 yet.

Agreed I have one on preorder after a few discussions with them and their engineer on a couple of concerns. If you have followed the few pictures that have been released not everything is finished.... they also have designed their own magazine from what I was told they could get it to feed either round nose or flatnose well but needed different mag settings. Which is understandable. When the deadline came out there was some issues I expect they are very concerned that it doesn't happen this time.
I wish they would keep things more updated but that is mostly to satisfy my inpatients it is far more important that they take the time to have it work right!

 

[littlepod]

Agreed I have one on preorder after a few discussions with them and their engineer on a couple of concerns. If you have followed the few pictures that have been released not everything is finished.... they also have designed their own magazine from what I was told they could get it to feed either round nose or flatnose well but needed different mag settings. Which is understandable. When the deadline came out there was some issues I expect they are very concerned that it doesn't happen this time.
I wish they would keep things more updated but that is mostly to satisfy my inpatients it is far more important that they take the time to have it work right!

I don't mind taking a chance on them, but how is their CS with them being based out of Canada?

 

[Gleedus]

I don't mind taking a chance on them, but how is their CS with them being based out of Canada?

I am in canada so it will be easier if there is a issue no doubt then for you. I have not heard bad of the CS but they do lose emails occasionally and you wont get a reply and will have to try again.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

So far Derek Lee has been very responsive to my emails.

 

[Gleedus]

So far Derek Lee has been very responsive to my emails.

Yes he generally is. Being a small business owner I am very understanding of challenges of maintaining good CS and communication with customers.

 

[Csafisher]

Any updates on the shipping time?

 

[Gleedus]

Website say feb....

 

[Kisssofdeath]

I've given it thought and if I don't get mine in hand by the end of February, I'll more than likely cancel my order. According to Derek, they should have started shipping this month. As soon as I seen the new delivery date on their website I emailed him and asked about it, he hasn't replied and that email was sent on 12/29. That's only three days ago and considering the timing of the email, to be fair I'll wait until the end of next week for a response.

 

[Gleedus]

I've given it thought and if I don't get mine in hand by the end of February, I'll more than likely cancel my order. According to Derek, they should have started shipping this month. As soon as I seen the new delivery date on their website I emailed him and asked about it, he hasn't replied and that email was sent on 12/29. That's only three days ago and considering the timing of the email, to be fair I'll wait until the end of next week for a response.

That is why I said what I did earlier.... It is frustrating. On a plus side I did receive the mags and from the little I have messed with them I'm hopefull they will be good. I do like the closed design to help keep dirt out. They also loaded quite easy but I wasnt using lapua (greasy) ammo.
They will not work in a RimX I sent one with a buddy to try in his bergara initial test were good.