Uncapped windage

#2
That’s one of my favorite things about my 4-16X42 ATACR F1

My Burris XTRII rarely moves if ever. My Sightrons in the past you had to pay attention to

I hope the next Athlon Cronus BTR has locking windage. That’s the only thing the Ares ETR has over the Cronus in my opinion
 
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#14
WeiserBucks said:
If a person is holding wind why is anyone giving a shit about "pull and turn"? Why is anyone constantly fucking with the windage knob?
Click to expand...

Some people adjust windage. I rarely do. But when it comes to 1,000 yard fclass I do adjust initial windage, then hold past the initial adjustment

If you have the option to pull the knob out and adjust vs unscrewing a cap and adjusting then do whatever you prefer

I don’t care if you remove a cap, pull a knob or just reach up and turn. If it works for you and your needs then there’s no reason to change
 
#15
Makes sense for different disciplines, I was hoping that I wasn't literally missing something. I haven't had the windage cap on one of my scopes off in years, probably 600 rounds of general retardation and 3 states worth of wrecking critters.
 
#16
My fclass rifle and my 260 are the only two I adjust the windage on. Target only guns

The hunting rifles 308 and 300 are hold off rifles

But to each their own. It comes down to “if you decide to adjust” “which do you prefer”
 
#17
WeiserBucks said:
If a person is holding wind why is anyone giving a shit about "pull and turn"? Why is anyone constantly fucking with the windage knob?
Click to expand...
why?
because as the hoards of zombies clear barriers on their way to eat your kids, you can forget about holds and focus completely on the targets as you send hundreds of rounds downrange at each stage.
 
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#20
Interesting discussion. Locking turrets versus capped. Potential for lost item or not. Dialing windage or always hold.

We believe in listening to our customer base, and providing products to meet the requests. Not every single request can be met however. But to get a better feel for this discussion, would a hunting/tactical type crossover optic with capped windage be preferred over our current locking system? Please explain why you feel one way or the other. Your input here may help guide the direction of future optic features, so I'm genuinely curious. Thanks.
 
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#21
WeiserBucks said:
Zombie, stage and you've lost me . . .
Click to expand...
what i meant is that if i need to hammer targets repeatedly with the same holds at 1000, 700, 400 and in, i would dial.
if i had to hit each once or twice and move on quickly to the next, i would hold.
for me, it is much simpler make quick adjustments for gusts, ie. hold right edge, left edge, if i am using the center dot, vs less or more hold.
maybe that is just me.
 
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#22
Why not locking turret and capped? Wouldn't that satisfy everyone? Toss the cap if you don't want it, have a cap if you want
gebhardt02 said:
Interesting discussion. Locking turrets versus capped. Potential for lost item or not. Dialing windage or always hold.

We believe in listening to our customer base, and providing products to meet the requests. Not every single request can be met however. But to get a better feel for this discussion, would a hunting/tactical type crossover optic with capped windage be preferred over our current locking system? Please explain why you feel one way or the other. Your input here may help guide the direction of future optic features, so I'm genuinely curious. Thanks.
Click to expand...

it.

For what we're paying in quality optics it seems like a small accommodation. But, I'm not a quality optics manufacturer.
 
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#23
gebhardt02 said:
Interesting discussion. Locking turrets versus capped. Potential for lost item or not. Dialing windage or always hold.

We believe in listening to our customer base, and providing products to meet the requests. Not every single request can be met however. But to get a better feel for this discussion, would a hunting/tactical type crossover optic with capped windage be preferred over our current locking system? Please explain why you feel one way or the other. Your input here may help guide the direction of future optic features, so I'm genuinely curious. Thanks.
Click to expand...

On a hunting rig I would prefer capped. Mainly because chasing elk results in things getting banged around. Nice to have some protection. For long shots one normally has time to set up and takeoff the cap.
Just my preference.

HTH
 
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#24
gebhardt02 said:
Interesting discussion. Locking turrets versus capped. Potential for lost item or not. Dialing windage or always hold.

We believe in listening to our customer base, and providing products to meet the requests. Not every single request can be met however. But to get a better feel for this discussion, would a hunting/tactical type crossover optic with capped windage be preferred over our current locking system? Please explain why you feel one way or the other. Your input here may help guide the direction of future optic features, so I'm genuinely curious. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't prefer locking over capped or vice versa but a cap seems easier/less costly to replace in case of damage. Having both would give the people that nitpick a choice and wouldn't seem to be that much more costly to produce but I wouldn't know.

Still don't understand why anyone would dial wind once zeroed if they have a .2 mil reticle.... It's slower in every situation and not anymore accurate.
 
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#25
gebhardt02 said:
Interesting discussion. Locking turrets versus capped. Potential for lost item or not. Dialing windage or always hold.

We believe in listening to our customer base, and providing products to meet the requests. Not every single request can be met however. But to get a better feel for this discussion, would a hunting/tactical type crossover optic with capped windage be preferred over our current locking system? Please explain why you feel one way or the other. Your input here may help guide the direction of future optic features, so I'm genuinely curious. Thanks.
Click to expand...
I just purchased two of your scopes, nothing wrong with the locking mech on the scopes. Solid set-up. My view, leave what you have.
Pete
 
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#26
jzerfoss said:
I honestly don't prefer locking over capped or vice versa but a cap seems easier/less costly to replace in case of damage. Having both would give the people that nitpick a choice and wouldn't seem to be that much more costly to produce but I wouldn't know.

Still don't understand why anyone would dial wind once zeroed if they have a .2 mil reticle.... It's slower in every situation and not anymore accurate.
Click to expand...
Shot a match that had a positional (seated with sling) out to 550m in a strong steady wind, opted to dial wind so didn't need to hold off the target.

There are times when it's handy to dial wind so un-capped can be useful.
 
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#27
beetroot said:
Shot a match that had a positional (seated with sling) out to 550m in a strong steady wind, opted to dial wind so didn't need to hold off the target.

There are times when it's handy to dial wind so un-capped can be useful.
Click to expand...
Why in this situation would holding wind be worse? If you have a known correction a hold is just as accurate as dialing if your reticle has the holds. Plus you can make changes on the fly if there's a wind change rather than moving/breaking position to dial the change. I've seen more than a couple times shooters coming off a stage kicking themselves in the ass because they zeroed a stage because they left the wind dialed from the last stage.

Bad eye sight is one of the only good reasons I've heard. I don't want to go too far off the subject so to each their own I guess....
 
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#28
lets say you are on overwatch, or waiting for a target of opportunity.
you have a steady wind with a 10 mph cross wind with occasional gusts and the target area is 800 yards away.
your wind correction is 2.2 mils. most of the time;
for me, it is easier and more natural to dial for constant wind and hold for gusts instead of holding for wind and adjusting from there.
making fast shot corrections is also more natural and quicker if i am not already holding for wind
additionally, i prefer the floating dot when the target is so far away and/or small.
i will take my cap off and dial.
 
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#29
jzerfoss said:
Why in this situation would holding wind be worse? If you have a known correction a hold is just as accurate as dialing if your reticle has the holds. Plus you can make changes on the fly if there's a wind change rather than moving/breaking position to dial the change. I've seen more than a couple times shooters coming off a stage kicking themselves in the ass because they zeroed a stage because they left the wind dialed from the last stage.

Bad eye sight is one of the only good reasons I've heard. I don't want to go too far off the subject so to each their own I guess....
Click to expand...

The wind was steady so changes were unlikely. With an unstable sitting position the last thing I wanted was to be searching for the right hold on top of everything else. Had magnification dialed way back which also didn't help.

Point is it gives you options, some people may never use it but others will.
My mate dials for wind all the time, no idea why he doesn't just hold but it works for him.
 
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#30
Serious question to get back on topic:

Can anyone give an example of why either a locking turret or a cap is functionally a better option?

I’ve used/use my rifles in most every scenario and environment. I cannot think of a single situation in which one option is more functional than the other.

I get that people have preferences. But I’m asking from purely a functional standpoint. Give an example why capped is better or example why locking is better.

It’s already been mentioned, locking doesn’t have an extra item to take off/put back/not drop/lose. What else?
 
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#31
Dthomas3523 said:
Serious question to get back on topic:

Can anyone give an example of why either a locking turret or a cap is functionally a better option?

I’ve used/use my rifles in most every scenario and environment. I cannot think of a single situation in which one option is more functional than the other.

I get that people have preferences. But I’m asking from purely a functional standpoint. Give an example why capped is better or example why locking is better.

It’s already been mentioned, locking doesn’t have an extra item to take off/put back/not drop/lose. What else?
Click to expand...

Capped could be an advantage in that if you never take the cap off then you know the windage is always zeroed, not a big deal but could be a piece of mind.

Some locking turrets can to some degree lock themselves when you try to dial, not an issue with decent turrets but could happen inadvertently.

I think the case could be made for capped or locking depending on the individual user.
Personally I don't mind either way but if I did go the capped route I would never touch them in the field other than to zero it. I did have capped turrets at one match I did and had to take great care not to loose them.
 
#32
Dthomas3523 said:
Can anyone give an example of why either a locking turret or a cap is functionally a better option?
Click to expand...

Called windage gives a little piece of mind on a hard use rifle. Seems it adds a little protection and reduces snagging.





Good points about dialing windage in over watch or positional.

The ZCO knobs are pretty low profile as it is looking at them again
 
#33
I would say an advantage on a hunting rifle to capped windage is you know your not going to accidentally spin the windage turret. Resulting in a missed shot when your adrenaline is going or simply forgetting to check it

Locking for target guns would be an advantage because you can simply look at the exposed dial to verify it’s on zero. Don’t have to worry about screwing the cap on and forgetting to zero the windage out if you chose to hold over on the next shot

There are different disciplines of shooting. For the prs type shooting I could see hold off being preferred. But for fclass where the target distance is the same for 22 consecutive shots it makes more sense to dial your windage vs holding off in my opinion

I think it all comes down to personal preferences and what the scope will be used for. My ATACR for hunting is capped and I prefer it for that as I always hold off while hunting. A locking windage knob would accomplish the same but with the cap the windage isn’t getting turned in any circumstance and the cap never gets removed to adjust it anyways.

That ATACR also has a zero hold on the vertical knob as well. You push a button to spin the turret away from its initial zero. A feature I like. I always dial for vertical adjustment so in the case of that turret I prefer the locking to the cap

I would say this is no different then those who prefer smaller/low profile turrets vs large/more pronounced turrets. Both accomplish the same thing. The use of the scope would give me a preference one way or the next
 
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#34
For my needs I haven’t seen a better turret design for a hunting setup than this 4-16 ATACR. Low profile/locking elevation turret and capped windage. Again for MY uses
0157D83B-F896-4871-9D7B-E72DE1CB73A2.jpeg
 
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#36
I prefer capped,

The best real world scenario that I've encountered with a locking vs capped windage dial is that a couple times
I've had the locking turrent disengage and spin randomly... This happened twice to me as I was hauling the rifle in a mobile gun rack on an ATV, must have somehow bumped the disengage button...... this would not happen with a capped turrent.

As for dialing vs holding, the real world case for dialing also extends to extremely high winds.... if I've got to hold 2-3 MIL wind I'll dial in a the major correction so I'm impacting closer to the center of the reticle, much easier to see impacts and adjust as needed...... anyone ever shot in Oklahoma will know what I mean!
 
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#37
Why not have a turret do both. My leupold vx3i has a capped windage turret and a thread protector so that you can leave the cap off. If the turret was locking also then wouldn't both schools be happy?

Then maybe make a spacer that goes under the turret and keeps it from locking so the guy who wants to have an exposed non locking turret will be happy too. These scopes already weigh 2lbs, what's another gram of plastic.
 
#38
Excuse my French, but f*€# that capped $h!t, keep that crap for the poor's. It's just an excuse to cheapin a tier 1 optic. If I decide to dial, there is no thinking ...cap on?/cap off? Or opposite, I decided to take cap off because of high winds or distance, and then I decide to move... Did my turret stay zeroed?... especially night hunting.

I'm buying a tier 1 optic because it allows me to handle more situations better, yet is still durable enough to take the punishment tossed at it. To me, a locking windage on a tactical tier 1 does this. It allows you to get the best of both worlds, maintain zero/index, yet still maintain convenience/time efficiency under stress. Yes, I get the argument that we're holding the majority of time for the instances in discussion. But again, I want the best of both worlds if/when I can have it.

The only realm that I could think of, as a capped design being advantageous, is with possible weight specifications. I'm not an engineer, so maybe this would be a question for @gebhardt02. Weight savings... capped vs. locking turret design? It would be the only possiblity that I'd consider going with capped, but assuming this would be negligible between the two.
 
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#41
My vote is for a capped windage- but probably just personal preference. The reasons for this (and this is based off my scopes so it may not hold true for scopes I don't have experience with) - even with a cover they are still sleeker than my locking turrets. They must have figured that you need some more real-estate to be able to grip and pull them out so they made them bigger. Also, on the style that you do not pull out to release but rather push a button- I've had them release and move from being carried and thrown around. I've also had the same thing happen with the elevation turret- but then you just run it down to zero.

Does anybody have a zero stop on a windage turret? So you could set it and then have 1 full turn each way.
 
#42
i want minimal points of failure for critical systems.
i get that some people have lots of rifles and scopes so it isn't a big deal if one of them is not working properly.
zero lock for elevation has enough benefit to justify that.
windage lock? i don't need an extra feature just to account for my possible lack of attention.
cap is a simple enough solution to me, but i don't care if other folks like something else.
 
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#45
I won’t buy a scope with a capped windage

when shooting in winds higher than 10mph,
it won’t be uncommon for me to touch my windage more than my elevation
 
#46
mmlook said:
I won’t buy a scope with a capped windage

when shooting in winds higher than 10mph,
it won’t be uncommon for me to touch my windage more than my elevation
Click to expand...

Do you dial wind and hold elevation? Everywhere I shoot the wind seems to be variable but the distance is not moving so if I were to dial one and hold one I would dial elevation. If you're dialing both then sure, don't run caps.
 
#47
Memberberries said:
Do you dial wind and hold elevation? Everywhere I shoot the wind seems to be variable but the distance is not moving so if I were to dial one and hold one I would dial elevation. If you're dialing both then sure, don't run caps.
Click to expand...

dial both

it’s a little harder to bracket the target, plus hold, plus calculate how much you are off center.

if i can hold center, i know exactly how large the target is, and exactly how much to adjust by for the next shot
 
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#48
mmlook said:
dial both

it’s a little harder to bracket the target, plus hold, plus calculate how much you are off center.

if i can hold center, i know exactly how large the target is, and exactly how much to adjust by for the next shot
Click to expand...

Should be holding center no matter what anyway. Even if you’re holding say 1.5mil of wind, your 1.5mil mark is treated just like the center of your reticle. Shouldn’t be any different to use as a ruler, bracket, etc.
 
#49
Dthomas3523 said:
Should be holding center no matter what anyway. Even if you’re holding say 1.5mil of wind, your 1.5mil mark is treated just like the center of your reticle. Shouldn’t be any different to use as a ruler, bracket, etc.
Click to expand...

i agree, it’s just more work and more room for error if you hold

especially if the hold is not a number that falls on a hash mark

holding is also more reticle dependent.
 
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