Rifle Scopes UPDATE w/ pics - Scope not able to dial to 1000yds

[TimResin]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

You need to get them up to 2800 range then they really go. Have you tried to go up on the powder? maybe up to 46 or even maybe try RE15?

 

[Swan]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Good point ReaperDriver. I think you need to get them up to around 2900fps or so before results improve. Not sure that is possible (safely) for you.

Have you tried the Berger 168 VLD's at all? Cost a lil more but they shoot great, although I never tried them out to 1K.

 

[ReaperDriver]

UPDATE w/ pics - Scope not able to dial to 1000yds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need to get them up to 2800 range then they really go. Have you tried to go up on the powder? maybe up to 46 or even maybe try RE15? </div></div>

I've shot 155s with 47.8 of Varget in Lapua Brass and it gave me 2730. I also tried RE15 with 47.6 with both the 155smk (2155)Palma and 155 Scenars and again accuracy was just average and velocities were in the mid to high 2700's. 46.7 RE15 gave me 2750fps with the 155smk and 2795 with the scenars.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

20" with a 175 is a solid performer with a little more barrel, but I do know several very good shooters her have no issue hitting 1k with a 20" stick. It's a fine balance between too much and not enough with powder, heavier bullets and distance in a shorter barrel.
Me, I am working on getting a little more velocity in a 17" barrel with 147's for my R1A1. I really need to get my garage sorted out and all my reloading bench and work bench and, man I got a lot to do so I can unpack it all...

 

[Rafael]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are not full of shit.....you are a knowledgeble guy, but.....

The "Salvage" statement is blasphemous.

The use drilled and button-rifled barrels. </div></div>

You are correct of course-I had myself a brain fart there. Sat in a NRA instructor class all day with a good, but not too engaging instructor. My brain was toast! </div></div>

I normally hate the classroom. Had to sit through 3 days of Virginia Dept. of Criminal Justice classes recently for my requirements to sell/install electronic security gear. I got lucky and got a very knowledgeable and engaging instructor. Best of all, he was up for challenges from we idiots. Rare instructor. I don't think I have ever enjoyed a class so much as this one.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

You would be able to see with the nekkid eye if you had one low one medium........

 

[badbot]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's some more close up pics:

</div></div>

if you look close you can see the trapazoid on the flat between the pic ears and the port cutout it is 20 moa as you have mesured.
I think the 11 up 9 down points to your reciver being off of spec.
when you mic'ed your base what was the difference front to back between the mounting holes? .020 or so? if you go buy some shim stock from the local hardware store that is about half the difference .i.e .010 and shim the back of the base and see where you are at 13up 7 down or 14/6 then you will know about where a 30 will put you. just a test to see if your going to want/need a 40moa. I think remmy owes you about 19 moa. but good luck with your mounting.

 

[ReaperDriver]

UPDATE w/ pics - Scope not able to dial to 1000yds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">20" with a 175 is a solid performer with a little more barrel, but I do know several very good shooters her have no issue hitting 1k with a 20" stick. It's a fine balance between too much and not enough with powder, heavier bullets and distance in a shorter barrel.
Me, I am working on getting a little more velocity in a 17" barrel with 147's for my R1A1. I really need to get my garage sorted out and all my reloading bench and work bench and, man I got a lot to do so I can unpack it all... </div></div>

Its not an issue with getting to 1k or getting hits on steel with the 20" using the heavier bullets. My loads are doing really well out of the gun at range and I'm easily under MOA at 1K with the short barrel. It was simply the fact that I was unable to dial in the last .5 to 1 mil of elevation to get on target is my problem. I'm surprised that I've been able to get pretty consistant hits at that range using hold over with the mil hash marks of the Falcon scope. I would just like to be able to dial in my total elevation and not have to guess at it.

 

[ReaperDriver]

UPDATE w/ pics - Scope not able to dial to 1000yds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Did you try to install the base with just the two front screws to see if there was a gap under the rear? If so, your base is bowing and the rings won't be doing good things to the scope either.

I still have that sand in my 308 from the 2day match, just didn't recognize the color....... </div></div>

Not yet, But that's on my "to do" list this weekend. I've been crushed doing some planning for some Haiti relief contingencies the last couple of days and by the time I get home - I've had no desire to touch the gun. </div></div>

OK, so I installed the base like you suggested with the two front screws only and it sits flat across both from and rear receiver parts. So it not torqued.

I also mic'd the rings and they are definitely the same height.

 

[Swan]

Re: UPDATE w/ pics - Scope not able to dial to 1000yds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">20" with a 175 is a solid performer with a little more barrel, but I do know several very good shooters her have no issue hitting 1k with a 20" stick. It's a fine balance between too much and not enough with powder, heavier bullets and distance in a shorter barrel.
Me, I am working on getting a little more velocity in a 17" barrel with 147's for my R1A1. I really need to get my garage sorted out and all my reloading bench and work bench and, man I got a lot to do so I can unpack it all... </div></div>

Its not an issue with getting to 1k or getting hits on steel with the 20" using the heavier bullets. My loads are doing really well out of the gun at range and I'm easily under MOA at 1K with the short barrel. It was simply the fact that I was unable to dial in the last .5 to 1 mil of elevation to get on target is my problem. I'm surprised that I've been able to get pretty consistant hits at that range using hold over with the mil hash marks of the Falcon scope. I would just like to be able to dial in my total elevation and not have to guess at it.</div></div>

I feel ur pain. Or, at least I used to. Do what I did. Buy a longer barrel and never look back.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

If the rear of the base isn't off the reciever with the front screws tightened, then the rear of the receiver isn't out of whack (it may be an RCH, and bedding is never a bad thing-but I haven't bothered yet).

Get a 30moa base, some decent rings (there was a screaming deal on a set of low TPS's for $30 yesterday) and you'll be good to go.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Ok, I have a crazy theory. Don't laugh at me... If the scope is on a sloped base (20moa) and the scope is mounted pretty far forward - would that allow me LESS up than if the scope mounted further back?

Before you laugh, think about the physics and geometry. If the center of the scope forward on the base i.e. Lower on the slope... Wouldn't it have more height above the bore as you slide it aft up the slope? The whole point of the 20 moa base is to get more elevation. If ithe scope center is way forward on the base, maybe it's only acting like a 5 or 10 moa base instead of a 20.

I wonder If this is my problem?

 

[Rafael]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Nope, would not make enough difference to matter, unless you move the scope a few hundred yards.

 

[sudnrush]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

what rafael said

 

[Rafael]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sudnrush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what rafael said </div></div>
You were right before you edited.
I thought you explained it very well.......no change of angle at all.
Just a change in height over bore, as you said.

 

[TimResin]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Like I said before its a problem that most falcon scopes have. I have the exact same problem. I used up 12mil to zero my 4-14 on a 20moa base. Common sense would make me think that coming from the factory since it has 22mil built in that it should zero around 11mil on a 0moa base and zero at about 7mil on a 20moa but no it doesn't. I called the place I bought it from and he says all the falcons have less up elevation than down. Its a sub 500 scope the glass quality is good and it has a good warrenty so really what more can you expect.

 

[Pete E]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Are the Falcons one or two part tubes? If they are two part tubes, could these be slightly out of alignment?

 

[TimResin]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

The 4.5-18 are two piece. The early 5-25 were 2 piece two but they changed them to one piece.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

if your bases were mixed, one was a low and a medium lets say, i would think you could tell right off the bat by placing them side by side. they come in 1/4" increments. id ask EGW or whoever you bought the base from for an exchange with a 30moa base. as far as the marks on the ring bottoms, when they are that wide, they are bound to stray over onto the next raised section. if they were skinny rings, you wouldnt have that problem. plenty of people run the XTRs on an EGW base. i just had mine off, but they are already back on the rifle. ill pull them off and look for marks later.

 

[Trevor]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

I had the same problem with my Remington 700 built in the 90’s had a badger 20moa base and when I switched to my Nightforce with 40min of travel I was short 12 minutes, couldn't figure out for the life of me what was wrong. Did all the same things you’ve discussed including the mad math to figure out the rail height and even called Nightforce. Turned out REMINGTON had F@@ked me on the receiver and the front of the receiver was higher then the rear 12 min taller which is only 12/60 of a degree and when you place the base on the rifle it fits snug why wouldn’t it’s a 20moa rail but I only had a useable 8 left over because of the receiver. Found this out at 1000 when I was dialed all the way up figuring that I had more then enough elevation only to find out I needed to aim over the top of the target.

Interim fix was to take two pieces of pop can and cut to size and slip them under the rear of the base I will have to check but I think I got back 14 min. long term fix is to either buy a new scope (out costs too much) or buy another rail. I called Richard Near and he built me a rail with enough elevation to get back the 12 min I lost because of the receiver.

 

[kluxman45]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

he said he did.probely the scope itself

 

[jtv3062]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

I would bed the base as Switchblade suggest. My rifle was shooting 12" low at 50 yards with the scope maxed out. Bedding the base fixed the problem.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, first, it is 'slope' and not 'cant' as applied to the base. Cant is side to side, as you all know(small peeve like 'clip' and 'magazine')

Now, get rid of the base and rings and get a set of Seekins, Badger, USO, TPS, whatever, but get the SYSTEM, ie, both base and rings from the same manufacturer. BArring that, any of the aforementioned rings work on the aforementioned spec bases.
Apply the base with a little bedding compound to set it on the receiver. Grease the screw holes well so the stuff doesn't get into them. You will want to scratch the receiver and base a little with a green pad. This beds your base and helps in recoil absorbtion.
Now set the BOTTOM HALF of the ring and apply the proper torque to set them.
Work the erectors of your scope 20 times each all the way up, and all the way down to work in the erectors. Now 'center' both the elevation and windage erector knobs.Place the scope in the bottom half of the rings after you bag or set the rifle in a stand or rest. Insure it is square and plumb to the ground, table, whatever, this is important.
Now looking through the scope, hold each of the rings and turn the scope right and left, back and forth, rolling 180*. As you do this, you will see the center of the reticle scribing an arc. Move your knobs as you roll until the reticle stays centered as you roll. You are now mechanically zeroed. Using a spark plug gapping tool, place the shims between the erector housing and rail to insure you have the scope nice and square in teh rings. Apply the top half of the rings, insure you are correctly square and plumb with your reticle, scope, rail, and rifle. Tighten the top half of the rings to 15"#.
Now you can bore sight your scope to 100M. Simply bag and set the rifle, find a target at exactly 100M, remove the bolt, bag teh rifle so it naturally rests boresighted as you look through the bore at your target. Gently working the windage and elevation, make the adjustment on the scope to zero on the same point. You are now ready to shoot it into the 100M zero at this point. If everything is solid, parts are correctly mounted, you will have plenty of travel in your scope for 1k.

Now for your ammo...
175SMK, 45gr Varget, Win Case, 2700fps
This is what OEM Remington 308 barrels like for some reason. 2700fps will get you to 1k within your rigs ability using a 20MOA sloped base.
It is important that you use 1913 Picatinny spec equipment as it is the most accurately built. Weaver is a bit on the sloppy side, and made for weaver. They do not interchange. Comingling will give you issues. </div></div>