Upgrade ?'s: Dillon presses and drill press trimmers?
- Thread starter Strykervet
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That is the best idea. I had a strong mount on one of my 650's, how anyone can think mounting a casting on two "Z'ed" 11ga sheet metal brackets is stronger that mounting a casting directly to the bench is beyond me.
A 650 will do everything you need, as far as Swagging that mil brass the $80 ebay kits work great most of the time. I have experience with 3 650s with them installed, other than really stubborn 308 they work like a dream. IF you have some hard 308 brass and are using the ebay 650 swag tool you will find that your primer will seat part way and then stop, stuck dead. Its rare but it happens and it sucks. On 223 they are a dream, you will retire your Dillon lever swagger even with the rubber band mod it doesn't hold a candle to sizing / decapping / swaging and trimming all at once and its completely hands off thanks to the case feeder.
I too passed on the "Strong Mount". I had some left-over steel from a project. A few feet of steel angle and some flat plate. I welded the angles to the plate (1/4" both) in a "Z", drilled holes, and then bolted them to the bench. The bench weighs about 500# and with my "Stronger than Strong" mount I get so little "flex" that the top of the case feeder doesn't move back and forth at all, even when loading (including the sizing) of my most stubborn cases. Of course one has to have some steel and a MIG welder for this kind of project otherwise a strong mount might be better than having to cut a piece of the bench out for ram clearance.
A couple guys on here recommended the strong mount... Said it strengthened up the entire system? I agree, I can't see some 11ga. metal elevating the press and somehow making it stronger, but whatever. I haven't seen either.
I do agree and plan on getting the roller handle, the auto case feeder, maybe the powder checks. I think I can make do using a makeshift bullet tray and my presses will all be tightly bolted to a very heavy duty (read: serious overkill) bench.
I will have one hell of a reloading bench. I'm building a workbench in the shop that'll likely be 3' deep (or 4' depending on whether or not it's accessible from the other side or if I install cabinets in the back) and 8' long. So basically full sheet of plywood, 2 .75" sheets laminated together on a heavy duty frame with "joists" 12-16" apart under the plywood. A middle shelf under the bench top will be built the same using cross members only with one sheet of .75" plywood. 2x8's, 4x4's and a few threaded bars for tensioning it all together. It'll be a monster, but it'll also have a vice mounted on the opposite corner with a 2x3' or so sheet of 3/8" steel under it, along with some other bench mounted tools. The loading side will be kept spark free and with no metal surfaces. I need a big bench open in the middle for working on things too, so this should be a one size fits all bench. I also have a well made loading bench built similarly but much smaller, only 3x4 or so but very stable. It'll be moved out there with that new bench and accessible from all sides. It has a single stage press on it and I plan on keeping all my case prep stuff out there.
Regarding swaging and case prep, is not the RCBS prep station sufficient to do all but trimming on the brass, and quickly? Is there a faster way to perform these operations on the press when I run them through the trimmer? I plan on using the Dillon case trimmer. Or is the RCBS sufficient? It also gives me a moment to look at each piece of brass before it would go in the case feeder.
I do agree and plan on getting the roller handle, the auto case feeder, maybe the powder checks. I think I can make do using a makeshift bullet tray and my presses will all be tightly bolted to a very heavy duty (read: serious overkill) bench.
I will have one hell of a reloading bench. I'm building a workbench in the shop that'll likely be 3' deep (or 4' depending on whether or not it's accessible from the other side or if I install cabinets in the back) and 8' long. So basically full sheet of plywood, 2 .75" sheets laminated together on a heavy duty frame with "joists" 12-16" apart under the plywood. A middle shelf under the bench top will be built the same using cross members only with one sheet of .75" plywood. 2x8's, 4x4's and a few threaded bars for tensioning it all together. It'll be a monster, but it'll also have a vice mounted on the opposite corner with a 2x3' or so sheet of 3/8" steel under it, along with some other bench mounted tools. The loading side will be kept spark free and with no metal surfaces. I need a big bench open in the middle for working on things too, so this should be a one size fits all bench. I also have a well made loading bench built similarly but much smaller, only 3x4 or so but very stable. It'll be moved out there with that new bench and accessible from all sides. It has a single stage press on it and I plan on keeping all my case prep stuff out there.
Regarding swaging and case prep, is not the RCBS prep station sufficient to do all but trimming on the brass, and quickly? Is there a faster way to perform these operations on the press when I run them through the trimmer? I plan on using the Dillon case trimmer. Or is the RCBS sufficient? It also gives me a moment to look at each piece of brass before it would go in the case feeder.
This fellow made an elevated mout that is worthy of the name "strong mount".
my DIY strong mount - THR
my DIY strong mount - THR
My bench is 2' wide. I did not want to have stuff out of reach. About 7 feet long (to fit space I had)
Top is 2 pieces of 3/4" birch ply (had from another project) laminated with glue and screws. I did the top surface in matte white laminate. Easy to see small parts and spills.
Legs are 2x4 (6 of them) that are doubled to 4x4. Top rim is 2x4. Cross pieces at ends and middle only. Lower frame of 2x4. Bottom shelf and back (from top to lower frame) is 1/2" ply.
It has been more than sturdy for everything I have thrown at it.
Top is 2 pieces of 3/4" birch ply (had from another project) laminated with glue and screws. I did the top surface in matte white laminate. Easy to see small parts and spills.
Legs are 2x4 (6 of them) that are doubled to 4x4. Top rim is 2x4. Cross pieces at ends and middle only. Lower frame of 2x4. Bottom shelf and back (from top to lower frame) is 1/2" ply.
It has been more than sturdy for everything I have thrown at it.
Absolutely getting the case feeder --can't see using these without one. In fact, I plan to start my setup to look like the one advertised (shown) in their catalog with the extras. Now on the case feeder, do I need ONE case feeder and four different plates, or do I need four whole case feeders to do all sizes of brass minus magnum? I'm guessing plates, but the catalog isn't clear.
On the trimmer: I'm so confused. I plan on a 650 anyway as I think it'll suit me better right now, so how would not using their recommended trimmer and using one they don't recommend be advisable? Can I not convert my brass to BLK and trim other calibers with the recommended one?
You just need the plates, the colored inserts at the bottom which are sort of caliber specific, and possibly the plunger's(there are a few different sizes).
As far as the trimmer goes, you can run either. The 1500 is more versatile than the 1200. The 1200 WILL convert brass to 300BLK in a single pass, but life will be 20-25k rounds before its dead(i.e. comes apart internally). The 1500 does not have this problem(last I heard there was a prototype motor that had converted north of 500k rounds single pass). You CAN trim .223 and .308 with the 1500, but its overkill. Dillon has, IMO, a lot of weird info out on their trimmers that sometimes contradicts. I have experience with both, both will do the job the same, the 1500 is WAY beefier, but otherwise the same trimmer, threads on the same dies, has the same carbide cutter insert, same shank length, etc... The difference is 100%(IMO) above the base plate. I have a prototype 1500 for testing, but I dont think they changed much if anything with the production version.
I believe Dillon is recommending the 1200 be used with the 2 step conversion dies that GSI makes and the 1500 to be used with their single pass die. That doesnt mean the 1500 CANT be used on any other die or tool head or press, just that that is how they recommend it be paired. I wouldnt be surprised if Dillon stopped making the 1200 all together eventually depending on 1500 sales numbers.
I had the same problem when we moved, wound up making the bench 18" wide and L shape. Narrowed the bench instead of mounting the press's on flimsy brackets.
Bolted a rubber stop to the leg by the door so it didn't get banged up.
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I like this, if I had welding gear I might make one. I'd like a mill and a bunch of other stuff too... I'd also make a bench like that steel one above, that looks nice for loading. I can see how making a narrow bench may be beneficial to me. If I make it from wood 8' long and 3'-4' deep (4' with cabinets in the back) I'd barely have room to mount a vice on one end, have a bench to work on AND have my loading gear too.
I'm thinking of making a 4x8 bench and putting it in the middle, accessible from all sides and with the presses on the end. I also have another smaller but very sturdy bench I can put near it (the one I'm currently using with the single stage). It's this or make a narrow bench against the wall for loading, and a work bench in the middle (which I could cover with a sheet of steel whereas the loading table can't have that). I just haven't decided yet.
So the 1500 trimmer... I can do everything on it, eh? And it lasts longer, despite the warranty? Perhaps Dillon's approach is simply to sell off the remainder 1200's?
Okay, you've all convinced me to go with the 1500, a case feeder and a roller handle. I think I can makeshift a bullet tray (I don't see the necessity in this part, if I'm missing something please enlighten me) and if I go with a hard mount I'll have one made similar to the one above. But if my bench is tall enough, I shouldn't need one I'd think (and I like tall benches anyway). I'd like the powder checks, particularly the one that monitors for problem loads.
But my question again: does the case feeder require 4 different $30 plates to feed small and large rifle and pistol brass, OR do I need four different complete case feeders (the entire $220 part) for each size of brass I want to feed? Sorry if that's a stupid question but the answer isn't clear in the literature. I'd suspect it uses only the plates, but I just don't know.
As has been said, just the plates.
The conversion kits some with all the parts for the lower part of the case feeder (end of feed tube, drop in plastic bushing and screw in metal bushing). Also the feed ramp for station 1, the shell plate and locator buttons and powder funnel.
This site is GREAT - Dillon Press Caliber Conversion Finder
You tell it what machine you have, then what conversion kits you own and what you want, and it shows you what parts to get. Like .45 ACP to .308/.30-06 on a 650 only requires 3 parts. Two for the case feed and a powder funnel. .223 to .300 Blackout only requires the powder funnel.
So with this, you can only buy a few parts instead of the whole kit. But watch the prices, as more than 3 - 4 parts can cost as much as the kit.
If you can access your bench from all sides, 4' wide is probably ok. If you cant access from all 4 sides dont go any deeper than 2' IMO. My benches are all pushed up against walls and they are 2' deep which is plenty. This allows you to use a 48" wide sheet of plywood(MDF in my case) and get it ripped down the middle. I use 4x4 legs and 2x4 for everything else. My benches dont move. I wont speak to the 650 as I have no real experience outside of playing with a buddies for a bit, but I built my benches so the top is at my belt height and they work out great. I dont remember where I read that, but its worked for me and 4 or 5 of my buddies I have helped build benches for.
If you need to move the press up slightly you can get different height "strong mounts" from Inline Fabrication in the "micro" 4" and "junior" 6" as well as the regular which is 9" I think it is. I have never messed with the Dillon Strong Mount, but I use an Inline Fabrication Micro 4" mount on my Forster Co-Ax and its GREAT. Its pretty beefy and I could probably pick up the 150lb+ reloading bench via the mount. Even though they look like "cheap 11g z bend steel" that thing aint going nowhere and it has no flex.
If you need to move the press up slightly you can get different height "strong mounts" from Inline Fabrication in the "micro" 4" and "junior" 6" as well as the regular which is 9" I think it is. I have never messed with the Dillon Strong Mount, but I use an Inline Fabrication Micro 4" mount on my Forster Co-Ax and its GREAT. Its pretty beefy and I could probably pick up the 150lb+ reloading bench via the mount. Even though they look like "cheap 11g z bend steel" that thing aint going nowhere and it has no flex.
The 1050's primer pocket swaging operation is integral to the machine, when you say, "The will not warranty damage to 650 press parts if you use a 3rd party swager on it", what are you talking about? How would someone install a "swager" 3rd or even 4th party on a 650? I own one of both, I have no idea what you are talking about. I never even heard of an after market ("3rd party swager") that could be installed on a 650. Does this require drilling, or machining the base and adding parts under station one? How would you mount the machine after this modification has been made? If you have photos of the modification, or addition, please post, I just can't see how they would be added.
GS Customs makes a swager for the 650. I dont know how it works, never had a need to look at it. I have read of issues with it.
Thanks for the heads up! For my money this is a complete waste of time, it does in fact swage the primer pocket, but it is a complete modification of the press. It no long seats a primer or loads ammo. You must convert it back in order to load (and oh-by the way you have just zeroed out your life time warranty). The 1050 comes with the swage build in, at no extra cost, and like all things Dillon, works right the first time, every time. But thanks for the heads up.
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