Rifle Scopes Upsetting Experience with SWFA SERVICE (so far)?

[commandernavi]

I will state outright that I don't think this post is in the right place since it has more to do with SWFA's service than the scope I ordered (since I have yet to get it). If this is so, moderators, please remove it and let me know so I don't make the same mistake again.

Now, another thing. I am not sure if I should feel upset about this experience at all. I may just be spoiled by other online services and have excepted too much, but after hearing so many great things about SWFA as a company and not only their products, I was very eager to try it myself only to be disappointed. If I am in the wrong, please tell me since I can only see this in my perspective as it stands.

After months of research I finally decided to buy a SS off of SWFA. I placed my order easily enough and was eagerly awaiting it to come in. This was over two weeks ago. After about a week and a half I became concerned since I had expected the scope to arrive a long time ago since I live in Texas. After calling them and speaking to their CS, I found out my scope was on back order and that it was on a shipment from Japan. I asked when it was expected to arrive here and they couldn't even guesstimate it within a week. I was intending to use this scope on my primary gun for a hunting trip I have coming up, but it won't get here on time for that now for sure. I was upset about that and mentioned my hunting trip to the representative (hoping he could maybe do something to find out about the date it was at least shipped and the type of delivery they were using to make my own guess) and didn't say anything else. He wouldn't say so I said thank you and hung up discouraged.

Fast forward to the present. I called them this week to check on the order again to see if they learned anything knew and was told my order had been canceled. It was probably a misunderstanding, but it still upset me. At least they reinstated my order pretty quickly, so that was good, but I still don't know when I will get my optic (I still want it and don't plan to cancel but I am bummed ).

Besides this, SWFA's return policy (with restocking fee) seems VERY short and quite harsh. Adding that to the fact that they don't list when you will get your item/list in-stock vs. back-order before ordering (I may have missed it and am totally in the wrong here), why do people rave about them so much? I would only give them 2-3 stars at this point unless you guys can help me out here and explain why I am not being fair to them.

Long story short:

Bought optic from SWFA. Wasn't aware it was on back-order. Two weeks later still don't have it. Still have no idea when it's coming. Had problems with getting order canceled accidentally. Restocking and returns seem difficult with SWFA. Am I in the wrong for being upset? Why do people like SWFA's service so much?

Sorry for the long-winded post. I wanted to describe the situation as best I could and be as open-minded as possible since I don't want to be turned off from SWFA so early on.

Thank you.

UPDATE 6-26-13: Since my last post here I have actually gotten everything resolved and I have completely changed my mind about SWFA since when I posted this. I am sorry if this post caused them any problems as they did not deserve them, but I hope they still implement live inventory.

It would seem that almost all of my problems stemmed from my ignorance of the way SWFA's site operates and a complete misunderstanding I had after talking to the representative. I contacted them again this Monday about the issues I have been having and explained the whole situation in great detail to them. The CS rep was very nice, very patient, and very understanding this time and explained what happened. I managed to resolve my situation very much to my liking and received an alternate optic in the same SS lineup within TWO days. I am very happy with how it ended up despite the wait.

Since I posted this, I have learned a lot about dealing with SWFA and would like to share my advice to those new to shopping with them like I was:
1. Expect to call them in advance about what is in stock. I personally think their system should be updated to have live inventory, but it's okay.
2. Try to call instead of emailing them and make sure to check on your order status in the end - my order got canceled the first time I called because I wasn't clear and they deal with a lot of cancellations due to back orders.
3. Don't order online and expect to get your products fast if you didn't check the back-order status first

Thank you all for your input and thank you SWFA for dealing with me down my bumpy road.

I think if the scope works as well as it looks, I will be ordering more from SWFA in the future, just more intelligently next time.

 

[Big Dog Steel]

I hate to burst your bubble, but you are about to be put out to dry. I think I hear the lynch mob coming now. SWFA has some very dedicated followers/customers for a good reason. Your experience sounds like it was more your fault than theirs, your decision to hang up on them quite rudely prompted them to cancel the order. Personally, if I was them I would have probably cancelled your order for good.

 

[commandernavi]

I didn't act rudely at all though. I was only upset and said I was upset that it wouldn't get here on time. I never raised my voice or was sarcastic or rude at all. Just sad. I didn't promptly hang up either. I finished talking, he asked whether there was anything else he could do and I said not now and after saying "thank you" (in a respectful tone) I hung up. I promise!

If I do get lynched, I think the purpose of my post was misunderstood. I really want to understand whether I was wrong and really hope these followers can convince me to give them a second chance rather than further turn me and my friends off from ordering from them. I posted this because I feel that judging them for this one experience like this isn't fair without more input. I put a lot of time into writing this post and WANT feedback to hopefully give them a second chance. It would be a great disservice to everyone if just ends up getting mad at me and saying nothing constructive. Every business (no matter how good) always has hiccups and I want this to be an exception rather than a rule or at least be told I honestly excepted to much and wasn't right to do so. :/

 

[vaeevictiss]

Expecting any gun related items quickly in this current funk will only lead to a lot of hurt feelings. Companies are out of a lot of stuff... Just place the order and forget about it.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[RADcustom]

They are popular for offering a quality optic at an affordable price. Would you rather they told you "two weeks" for an indefinite amount of time?

As mentioned, order it and forget about it or settle for something in stock.

 

[42769vette]

Im not a SWFA fan, but I really dont see what more they could have done. You ordered a Backordered scope without reading the whole add. You ordered this scope knowing you had a hunting trip planned so I would have thought checking to make sure it was in stock would have been a priority. 2 weeks is not very long to wait at all in this game, and I highly doubt SWFA knows when their product will pass customs.

Ive had issues with SWFA in the past, and wont order from them again, but I think this one's on you bud.

 

[commandernavi]

It's mostly that I didn't realize it was on back order until after I called them. I may have missed it but I don't think it said anywhere whether it was which was the main problem. I may have ordered another one had I known. Can someone please tell me where they list the status so I don't make the same mistake again? Thanks.

 

[EventHorizon]

There isn't really a point in your post but I will say that it's rather poor inventory management to not have an updated website with what is or isn 't in stock. It's not alien technology anymore. As for canceling the order and also for putting the order on back order without notification at least via email is also poor ops.

If your order was time critical and there was no indication of 'in stock' or tracking number within a couple of days then you really should have followed up with a call to make up for the lack of comms from the dealer. Poor service is one thing, but not learning from and adapting to it if you're still committed to doing business with the vendor is just asking for trouble and no-ones fault other than yours.

 

[SomeOtherGuy]

I think it's been well recognized even among fans of SWFA that the lack of live inventory on their website is a serious deficiency. Of course they aren't the only online seller with a reputation for inventory tracking issues - Botach and Opticsplanet immediately come to mind, although both of them seem to have greatly improved their inventory systems in the last year or two.

Other than that, I think at least some of this is on you. I don't get people who try to buy a new scope a week or two before a big hunt. And if I am ever one of them, I will be ordering from a company known for really fast and reliable shipping, whether it's hide vendor Liberty Optics, or mall of gun stuff MidwayUSA.

 

[Falsecrack]

OP, you seem like a real nice fellow. I can understand your frustration, I really can. But I think you should chalk this one up to "shit happens". Plus, it really does no good to put forth too much mental effort into something beyond your control. Good luck in your scope finding endeavors.

 

[commandernavi]

Yeah. I completely agree that I am at fault for the last minute order. I guess I just expected it to be like MidWay USA, Buds, etc. which is where I have gotten most of my other gear very fast. I didn't realize they didn't state what was on back order up front.

I am still going through with the order because I really want to try the optic and it is no longer time sensitive. I just hope it gets here soon so I can enjoy it as much as I can over the summer.

Thanks for the honesty and thanks for not completely lynching me (at least yet ). I really appreciate it guys and will probably order from them again in the future better understanding these limitations.

 

[RobertB]

Yes, I have ordered from SWFA twice now and was not at all pleased with how the buisness was done. I called and ordered something that was in stock to call a month later to find out that they don;t know when it will be there. Thats fine and I waited another month. Second order was about the same. Ohh, and I did the 5-20 and 1-6 FB deal and it took a long time but I waited, not really counting it.

But all in all, I was pleased with their products but not the service, but it wasn;t so bad that I wouldn't do biz with em again. It wasn't as bad as Palmetta latley. 3 shipments later and my very simple order of ammo still is short.

 

[G60]

Expecting any gun related items quickly in this current funk will only lead to a lot of hurt feelings. Companies are out of a lot of stuff... Just place the order and forget about it.

It's 2013, how many websites don't have real-time inventory yet? SWFA does not list in stock/out of stock status (or at least did not when I ordered my scope at the beginning of April.)

I ordered a scope from SWFA a couple months ago, and happened to find out that they don't have real-time inventory and that the scope I was looking for would probably be on back order after stumbling across the information while doing some rather extensive research online. I ordered the scope anyways, because there was nothing else on the market that came close to what I was looking for at the price SWFA offers the scope at, and I was not in a hurry.

Where my experience differs from the OP's, is that the next day I received an e-mail stating that the item I had ordered was backordered with no ETA. I replied that I was in no hurry, and to please keep me on the backorder list. A few weeks later I received another email stating that the item was still on backorder, which reassured that they hadn't forgotten my order, and the "way things are" in the industry right now, I was prepared for a bit of a wait. The scope ended up shipping a month after I ordered it, and I'm happy with the product, and SWFA's customer service and communication in my instance.

I can understand completely the OP's frustration, as it seems SWFA dropped the ball as far as communication went, unless an e-mail from SWFA customer service got sent to the OP's spam folder. (it happens.)

Experiences differ, and if there's one suggestion I can make to SWFA, is that they get some sort of real-time inventory system going on with their website. I've ordered from some really small "one man show" businesses that have them in place, so SWFA can do it, too.

 

[sandwarrior]

I'll stand by SWFA. They have been spot on for customer service for me in the past.

 

[cb_tikka]

It's 2013, how many websites don't have real-time inventory yet? SWFA does not list in stock/out of stock status (or at least did not when I ordered my scope at the beginning of April.)

I ordered a scope from SWFA a couple months ago, and happened to find out that they don't have real-time inventory and that the scope I was looking for would probably be on back order after stumbling across the information while doing some rather extensive research online. I ordered the scope anyways, because there was nothing else on the market that came close to what I was looking for at the price SWFA offers the scope at, and I was not in a hurry.

Where my experience differs from the OP's, is that the next day I received an e-mail stating that the item I had ordered was backordered with no ETA. I replied that I was in no hurry, and to please keep me on the backorder list. A few weeks later I received another email stating that the item was still on backorder, which reassured that they hadn't forgotten my order, and the "way things are" in the industry right now, I was prepared for a bit of a wait. The scope ended up shipping a month after I ordered it, and I'm happy with the product, and SWFA's customer service and communication in my instance.

I can understand completely the OP's frustration, as it seems SWFA dropped the ball as far as communication went, unless an e-mail from SWFA customer service got sent to the OP's spam folder. (it happens.)

Experiences differ, and if there's one suggestion I can make to SWFA, is that they get some sort of real-time inventory system going on with their website. I've ordered from some really small "one man show" businesses that have them in place, so SWFA can do it, too.

+1. I would buy more from them if they had real-time inventory. I've had several orders that were great. My last two orders resulted in an email a day later saying they were back-ordered. Haven't bought anything since.

 

[GUNNER10]

not really sure what the issue is, you ordered an out of stock item from a vendor you never dealt with before for a time critical item without confirming if they had real time inventories.

SWFA not having real time status is odd, but ive never had an issue getting anything from them within a few days since i allways call and confirm they have the item in stock. i have never not had a tracking number by the end of the first day

 

[ORD]

not really sure what the issue is, you ordered an out of stock item from a vendor you never dealt with before for a time critical item without confirming if they had real time inventories.

SWFA not having real time status is odd, but ive never had an issue getting anything from them within a few days since i allways call and confirm they have the item in stock. i have never not had a tracking number by the end of the first day

+1 on the above. I have ordered thousands and thousands of dollars worth of optics (and other stuff) from SWFA over the last dozen or so years and never had an issue with poor service. Is it annoying to have to call and/or e-mail first to confirm availability of inventory on a particular product instead of them having real-time inventory? Yes. Is it honestly that big a deal to take a few minutes to call/e-mail in that regard? HELL NO!!

If the OP had truly done "months of research" before ordering his scope (aside from research on the optic itself), he'd have surely realized that one of SWFA's only recurrent "issues" is that lack of real-time inventory on their site, he'd have contacted them before ordering, and this whole mess would have been avoided. Don't blame a good company for your error. This whole situation sounds more like a "customer FAIL" than a "customer service FAIL" to me.

 

[jjrgr21]

the only time i order from swfa is to get the SS line. you can't argue the quality vs price when it comes to the SS line.

 

[KYS]

I didn't act rudely at all though. I was only upset and said I was upset that it wouldn't get here on time. I never raised my voice or was sarcastic or rude at all. Just sad. I didn't promptly hang up either. I finished talking, he asked whether there was anything else he could do and I said not now and after saying "thank you" (in a respectful tone) I hung up. I promise!

If I do get lynched, I think the purpose of my post was misunderstood. I really want to understand whether I was wrong and really hope these followers can convince me to give them a second chance rather than further turn me and my friends off from ordering from them. I posted this because I feel that judging them for this one experience like this isn't fair without more input. I put a lot of time into writing this post and WANT feedback to hopefully give them a second chance. It would be a great disservice to everyone if just ends up getting mad at me and saying nothing constructive. Every business (no matter how good) always has hiccups and I want this to be an exception rather than a rule or at least be told I honestly excepted to much and wasn't right to do so. :/

Well what is "on time" to you since they gave you no time at all?

I think you jumped the gun on the internet order and should have called first to verify if your item was in stock. But on the other hand I think these online retailers should change their sites to operate off live inventory.
If said item is out of stock, it tells you on the website before you order it and get stuck on a backorder list.

 

[pinzmann]

Whenever I order something like a scope, I always call to verify stock. That said, I have ordered a few items from SWFA before and sorry to say they just don't compare to companies like Europtics, Sports Optics or even Midway.

 

[AK264]

SWFA is a unique company that has a business model that benefits shooters . Brand name usually means nothing nowadays, a CEO will be hired by a corporation that has no understanding of the product and looking to maximize profits make changes that detract from the product. SWFA has a active relationship with the manufacturers who make their products, they are balancing the quality/price equation with knowledge that certain parameters must not be compromised. The manufacturers know that SWFA has expectations that corners only be cut where agreed and that SWFA is very familar with the manufacturing process. SWFA innovates ,takes risk, uses and believes in their products. This is refreshing business model and one I enthusiaticly support. I sure they are making good profit as they well should with this business model. I think SWFA is proud of their products and value the trust their customers place in them. Their website and customer service is not as good or pleasant as other companies that are just vending products, but looking at the big picture it is a minor flaw. All shooters have a bit of honey badger in them and SWFA is no exception. If you are looking for anything other than a SS other vendors usually have better pricing and service. The non real time inventory is a problem that is really behind the times. On the other hand I usually follow tracking numbers so I would have been on the phone after two days and no tracking numbers. SWFA has always e-mailed me both on the order and when shipped.

 

[ChiefBull]

Well Commander, this is a Chief talking to you, Okay? I wouldn't let a bunch of 'civilians' get your seabag twisted into a knot:
--We're both military and when we say something or ask something we expect an answer or a proper reply; it really doesn't work that way out here
--you and I both know that there "A" answers and "B" answers; "A" answers are Yes Sir, No Sir, I don't know Sir, or NavShips Inst. umptee scratch says Sir...
In the 'real world' that is the way the big kids and the adults do business.
--a "B" answer is either a shrug or a Bullshit story; either way all "B" answers are borderline dishonesty, such terms as 'short lead time' are simply no good, go to disguise a "B" answer and amount to "B" answers. I don't care how many 'Snipers' are on the net or who are 'true believers'; yeah they're all 'Snipers' just ask'em they'll tellya.
When money is tendered and taken the assumption is that the vendor recipient of the money can fulfill and is capable of fulfilling their end of the transaction; it is an obligation of the the vendor recipient to state upfront any previously existing conditions that may color the transaction. Barring this, that colors a perception of borderline dishonesty on the part of the seller. It is the same as selling you a 1200lb 'D' type boiler but telling you, the C/O of she ship, that all the burner barrel orifice plates come extra. As far as I can see at this point SWFA amounts to nothing more than a very sophisticated P/O Box and a website. I've ordered several scopes from them in the past and have "not" been disappointed; they have been timely. I have been stung on the purchase of a SS 16X42 as I was "not" informed that a TechMan. is not supplied with the Scope because one does not exist, not even a warranty slip came with the scope, this after I ordered a second one before calling them and asking for the Tech.Man. for the first order. These are previous existing conditions that would have definitely colored the purchase I don't care what the rest of the crowd of '1000 yard single kill shot Snipers' on the "Error net" say. I have researched this scope heavily and by all accounts it is a good scope; well we're going to see.

Anchor'sAweigh/SemperFi
ChiefBull

 

[intrepidtek]

Real time inventory is the ticket.

 

[lawman29]

I ordered EGW base and rings on 5/24 online (I called first to confirm they were in stock as I was aware that they don't have real time inventory), they shipped yesterday and will arrive by Friday. I have dealt with numerous vendors during the last year and have no problems they include, liberty optics, powder valley, third generation, graf & sons, champions choice, midway, buffalo arms, bear basin optics, big supply shop, triad tactical, hells canyon armory, cabela's, southern precision, bartlein barrels, manners stocks, my compliments to all. I did have an issue with Brownell's, I'd ordered a rem 700 short action follower, it arrived and was a mag follower (the packaging was correct, just wrong item...), sent it back, it was lost, had the tracking number, had the lady at the UPS store in Cody call brownell's and I promptly received a credit for the item and shipping. In these tumultuous times I have nothing to say but thanks to the companies I've dealt with so far!

 

[ChiefBull]

'Tumultuous times' has exactly nothing to do with it. If you are "back ordered" say so at the time of purchase; this is a very simple principle. Don't make me come and dig you out; if you advertise something as so, then it is so. I should not have to go and do due diligence before a purchase is made. You make cash flow decisions based on the history of a purchase. It does not do well for the purchaser to have to be told almost ten days after a purchase, after he has had to call a vendor, that your account has been credited, we will charge you when it comes in, and "...we don't know when [it] is going to get here..." What kind of civilian good time rock and roll mellow yellow crap is that?

 

[G60]

Don't blame a good company for your error. This whole situation sounds more like a "customer FAIL" than a "customer service FAIL" to me.

Really? Not notifying the customer that his item was back ordered until he called 2 weeks after his order was placed to inquire as to the status is the customer's fault?

Talk about being a fanboy...

 

[BCP]

I had a somewhat similar experience with them although I didn't get all in a big huff about it and I still buy stuff from them.

Bought a super sniper 10x scope off ebay, they said it was in stock, whoops backordered for a month. Eventually got my scope as advertised although it didn't have both butler creek flip ups. I don't remember emailing or calling them about that but I did get a huge box of 50+ front objective butler creek flip ups randomly in the mail a couple months' after that, I took the one I needed out of the box and sent the rest of them back to SWFA.

Bottom line was that although they did kind of screw up they eventually came through. I still order from them but I make sure to call first to confirm in stock status and ask for USPS priority ship with tracking.

Shit happens, put on your big boy pants it's not the end of the world.

edit: yes I think they should have live inventory (or at least a general message about items on backorder) but it is their business, their choice. They seem to be doing well enough without it.

 

[fireEMT5]

Glad to hear you are sticking with your order. I'm sure SWFA is aware of the inventory online ordering issues........ They'll either eventually fix it or they won't. At the end of the day, their SS line of scopes are a solid value, as you will see when your scope arrives. I'll agree with the few here, if there is something other than SS scopes I'm after, I tend to look elsewhere first to avoid out of stock/backorder issues. As far as their C.S. goes, they've always treated me well and taken care of any issues in a mostly timely fashion.

 

[JB02]

This whole situation sounds more like a "customer FAIL" than a "customer service FAIL" to me.

I don't buy this. What separates great companies from mediocre companies is a customer centric focus. I don't care how good a value their products are, I won't buy from a vendor with lame customer service. This sport is too damn expensive to deal with headaches like what the OP went through. I personally will not buy products from SWFA because their inventory system is sub-par; I'm not going to waste my time calling some customer sales rep because they are too lame to upgrade their inventory tracking system. Lots of companies have come through this hurdle because they recognize the value of having a customer centric focus, and the OP should not be shamed into apologizing for his ignorance.
[MENTION=77742]commandernavi[/MENTION], good on you for posting this. A true power of an internet forum is letting others know when you've been burned by a bad customer service experience (SWFA and tacticalrifles.net come to mind here) or received absolutely first class service (Robert Gradous' work comes to mind on that point).

 

[MZ5]

Well Commander, this is a Chief talking to you, Okay? I wouldn't let a bunch of 'civilians' get your seabag twisted into a knot:
--We're both military and when we say something or ask something we expect an answer or a proper reply; it really doesn't work that way out here
--you and I both know that there "A" answers and "B" answers; "A" answers are Yes Sir, No Sir, I don't know Sir, or NavShips Inst. umptee scratch says Sir...
In the 'real world' that is the way the big kids and the adults do business.
--a "B" answer is either a shrug or a Bullshit story; either way all "B" answers are borderline dishonesty, such terms as 'short lead time' are simply no good, go to disguise a "B" answer and amount to "B" answers. I don't care how many 'Snipers' are on the net or who are 'true believers'; yeah they're all 'Snipers' just ask'em they'll tellya.
When money is tendered and taken the assumption is that the vendor recipient of the money can fulfill and is capable of fulfilling their end of the transaction; it is an obligation of the the vendor recipient to state upfront any previously existing conditions that may color the transaction. Barring this, that colors a perception of borderline dishonesty on the part of the seller. It is the same as selling you a 1200lb 'D' type boiler but telling you, the C/O of she ship, that all the burner barrel orifice plates come extra. As far as I can see at this point SWFA amounts to nothing more than a very sophisticated P/O Box and a website. I've ordered several scopes from them in the past and have "not" been disappointed; they have been timely. I have been stung on the purchase of a SS 16X42 as I was "not" informed that a TechMan. is not supplied with the Scope because one does not exist, not even a warranty slip came with the scope, this after I ordered a second one before calling them and asking for the Tech.Man. for the first order. These are previous existing conditions that would have definitely colored the purchase I don't care what the rest of the crowd of '1000 yard single kill shot Snipers' on the "Error net" say. I have researched this scope heavily and by all accounts it is a good scope; well we're going to see.

Anchor'sAweigh/SemperFi
ChiefBull

Regrettably, this is exactly right. OP, you got hosed because the vendor tried to 'help you assume' they actually had something for sale that they didn't. That they make no effort to tell you unless you call to follow up on the order, AND that they have no clue when or whether they'll ever get any are both MAJOR problems.

In point of fact, I called them the other day to ask whether they had a specific make, model, and reticle of scope in stock (since I had the same experience you've just had on a scope order last year), only to be told that they're a "full-line" dealer for that brand, so they usually had stock of most of their items, but that it would be impossible for them to know what scope I was referring to unless I gave them an swfa stock number. That response alone changed my mind. I politely asked about 1 other thing, then bid the fellow good day. I then called a vendor who doesn't try to give me that kind of double-talking garbage, to check on a nearly-unbelievable sale listed on their website.

Well, guess what? The other vendor was out of stock on the scope I wanted, TOLD ME SO UP FRONT, _AND_ gave me an estimated arrival date (that info was all on the site, but the clerk offered the info without being asked). Not only that, the item was on sale for a couple hundred dollars less at the vendor I know I like, AND they let me back-order it at the sale price regardless when it was supposed to arrive.

Fast-forward a week, and the item has shipped and will arrive here almost exactly 1 month BEFORE the estimated arrival date.

If the SWFA scope is the thing you want, and you're willing to wait indefinitely for it, then stick with your order. In my experience with their products and their competitors', they're not selling anything magic for significantly less than all the competition. That would not make them very profitable, and your experience thus far should have made it completely clear to you what they're there to do.

 

[docdredd]

Man just be patient. My 10X42 Mrad has been on order since 4/13/13, and per wendy they are hoping to have some more in the end of this month or early next month.

 

[sandwarrior]

I'm not getting why the OP FAILED to realize his order was BACKORDERED? If they say they don't have it, and are being told it is backordered (meaning usually the wholesale company that supplies the retail doesn't have it and is waiting for a manufacturer to produce it....when they get time) it is on backorder. They don't have it.

I will tell you this. Shooters who whine about things like this deserve no breaks. It is your own damn fault. Too many times I've had to put up with 'customers' who can't make up their mind when and if they are going to do something. Then when they can't have it on a whim, it's WHY NOT? I'm paying for it! Either time or resources don't exist anymore due to them dragging their feet.

The best example is some jughead walks into a store these days and asks how come the 'losers' who run this company can't get any .22LR. WAIT! it's not stupid customer's fault he never keeps any in stock for himself? Now, there's a pinch on and not enough of everything is being made because the average stupid customer (OP) didn't foresee any needs to aquire what he should normally be using.

It's this plain and simple. The reason for the mass shortages going on is because idiot panic buyers are grabbing everything they can and the industry that makes it, isn't geared up to go into overdrive to make it for them. If the shooters who use this stuff bought ahead, and the ones that use it recreationally, bought ahead, then industry capacity would be meeting the needs of a consistent buyer pool. And they aren't going to gear up because as soon as the panic is over the consumers who wanted it all, are going to quit buying. Just like the last election. Nobody ever takes supporting this industry and it's lead times seriously. They think, "This is the 21st Century, we should have everything we want, right now."

Instead, we get lazy ass whiners on here complaining that an internet retail company can't give him a straight answer about when the wholesale company is going to know when a manufacturer is going to get HIS product online for him.

I have no sympathy for the OP because his first move is to bash a company that would be helping him out if they could. Instead, he wants them to get the bad reputation for not having hundreds of the item he wants in storage somewhere. How much is that costing someone besides the OP?

 

[sobrbiker883]

SWFA has taken care if me on multiple times for almost 10 years. Some of the best customer service I've ever experienced.

Just me, but if I had a hunt coming up in that short of a time I'd damn sure be on the phone or in person about the purchase.

 

[redhooker]

I'm not getting why the OP FAILED to realize his order was BACKORDERED? If they say they don't have it, and are being told it is backordered (meaning usually the wholesale company that supplies the retail doesn't have it and is waiting for a manufacturer to produce it....when they get time) it is on backorder. They don't have it.

I will tell you this. Shooters who whine about things like this deserve no breaks. It is your own damn fault. Too many times I've had to put up with 'customers' who can't make up their mind when and if they are going to do something. Then when they can't have it on a whim, it's WHY NOT? I'm paying for it! Either time or resources don't exist anymore due to them dragging their feet.

The best example is some jughead walks into a store these days and asks how come the 'losers' who run this company can't get any .22LR. WAIT! it's not stupid customer's fault he never keeps any in stock for himself? Now, there's a pinch on and not enough of everything is being made because the average stupid customer (OP) didn't foresee any needs to aquire what he should normally be using.

It's this plain and simple. The reason for the mass shortages going on is because idiot panic buyers are grabbing everything they can and the industry that makes it, isn't geared up to go into overdrive to make it for them. If the shooters who use this stuff bought ahead, and the ones that use it recreationally, bought ahead, then industry capacity would be meeting the needs of a consistent buyer pool. And they aren't going to gear up because as soon as the panic is over the consumers who wanted it all, are going to quit buying. Just like the last election. Nobody ever takes supporting this industry and it's lead times seriously. They think, "This is the 21st Century, we should have everything we want, right now."

Instead, we get lazy ass whiners on here complaining that an internet retail company can't give him a straight answer about when the wholesale company is going to know when a manufacturer is going to get HIS product online for him.

I have no sympathy for the OP because his first move is to bash a company that would be helping him out if they could. Instead, he wants them to get the bad reputation for not having hundreds of the item he wants in storage somewhere. How much is that costing someone besides the OP?

I don't understand why this poster FAILED to realize that the OP had no idea his order was not in stock because the SWFA website bears no resemblance to their actual inventory.

I attempted to order from the SWFA website twice, both times I found out upon calling days later that the items were not even in country yet. While I was not pissed, I just cancelled and moved on, I understand how easily one could think they have a legit order placed and not know the item is months out. This topic has come up here several times in the past, so it would be safe to assume many other customers that don't post here have had similar frustrations. I am sure SWFA is a fine company, but their website is the "employee" that makes up the public, worldwide face of the company. They should upgrade it to live inventory there is truly no excuse not to in this day. It's the equivalent of hiring Rain Man to be your lead salesman.

 

[BoilerUP]

As has been beaten to death:

A real-time inventory system on the website would solve a LOT of CS-related issues.

 

[E. Bryant]

I'm not getting why the OP FAILED to realize his order was BACKORDERED? If they say they don't have it, and are being told it is backordered (meaning usually the wholesale company that supplies the retail doesn't have it and is waiting for a manufacturer to produce it....when they get time) it is on backorder. They don't have it.

That's fine, and backorders are certainly to be expected from any firearms vendor in this day and age. But the problem is that SWFA doesn't show any indication of availability on their website, and they don't send you any order status or backorder notification after the order has been placed. You just sit there, and wait, and eventually find out when you get around to contacting them about your order status.

I like the people at SWFA with which I've dealt, and I like their products and selection. But I will use them only as a last resort until such a time that they manage to inform customers of inventory situations.

 

[-Nick-]

That's fine, and backorders are certainly to be expected from any firearms vendor in this day and age. But the problem is that SWFA doesn't show any indication of availability on their website, and they don't send you any order status or backorder notification after the order has been placed. You just sit there, and wait, and eventually find out when you get around to contacting them about your order status.

I like the people at SWFA with which I've dealt, and I like their products and selection. But I will use them only as a last resort until such a time that they manage to inform customers of inventory situations.

For once I'm going to agree with Bryant. It's 2013 and it's not like live inventory systems are new. SWFA does enough business that they have no excuse for not staying current in the sales industry in order to service the customer properly. Their after-action service may be great, but it doesn't matter if their initial contact goes poorly to begin with.

Also to everyone one of the old crabs on here who whine JUST as much about calling a vendor first, you'd do well to pull your head out of your ass and remember that some people are new to this and don't know to call ahead and don't know necessarily that there are dealers out there like SWFA without live inventory. The OP was extremely courteous in what he wrote but here comes the rat pack to put him down for not blaming himself at every turn for SWFA's FAILURE to inform buyers like almost every other major company does these days of live inventory. At least have an auto-email system in place for back-ordered items. The OP has every right to be slightly frustrated.

To the OP, meet the Hide Vendor Fan Club. Unfortunately there's a pack of people here who believe that their past experience negates and invalidates everyone elses current experiences with a Vendor no matter what the circumstance. They'll condemn and blame you for the actions of a Hide Vendor they love, but then for the very same reason they'll condemn non-vendors like Botach for the EXACT SAME THING. For the record: Botach does suck hairy monkey sack.

 

[lennyo3034]

Anyone consider the OP didn't know that SWFA didn't have a real time inventory? Not everybody knows how different companies work, especially ones new to this site. My first experience with SWFA was almost exactly the same when I was new to the game, and I was very dissappointed with SWFA. I continue to buy from them, but only SS line of scopes, other items I will be from other sites until they get a real time inventory.

 

[thefitter]

... but their website is the "employee" that makes up the public, worldwide face of the company[/B]. They should upgrade it to live inventory there is truly no excuse not to in this day. It's the equivalent of hiring Rain Man to be your lead salesman.

+1

Too many companys in the shooting industry still in the dark ages with their websites.

 

[slowr1der]

I really like my SWFA SS scopes and have had several of them. I simply don't think you can get a better scope for the money at this time. However, that's the only thing I like about SWFA. Anyone that posts their negative experiences with them on this site usually get bashed by their fanboys, but I'm seeing more and more complaints about them so I know I'm not the only one. I've had a problem with them on every single order I've placed including waiting 11 months on the 1-6 scope that I was told I should receive in a couple of months when I ordered it. If I'm not ordering a SWFA SS scope, I don't even consider ordering from them as there are much better companies out there to get optics from imo. I actually prefer to buy my SWFA SS scopes used as I can usually have them in my hands a lot quicker. I've never had to use their customer service for a broken SWFA SS scope so I can't comment on how that would be, although I will admit it really does worry me. I know they have you send the scopes to Bushnell for repair which also worries me as I'm not a big fan of Bushnells customer service either, however, the scopes are soo good it's often hard to justify buying something else.

 

[commandernavi]

Thank you everyone for the input! Even to those that called me out completely I really do value and respect your opinion.

As some of you figured out, I am new at long range and never had back orders done this way before so was unfamiliar with the process. Sorry for making a big deal out of it and not being aware prior! I really didn't want to anger, offend, or defame SWFA - just share an experience and figure out how I should feel about it.

Also. As some of you mentioned, SWFA is a Hide Vendor. Does that translate to any deals or discounts? If so. How?

Thank you!

 

[ChiefBull]

Let's get something straight here "Gunn'y sandwarrior"or whatever moniker you go by and that goes for the rest of "the Gunn'ys" here, Okay! If you ever were a military professional, as you pass your moniker to the rest of us "panic buyers" you would not put up with this for one instant. True professionals do not; and, it is not whining to say so. If you something is so then it is so and any one in the crew who hears it can take it to the bank, no excuses no rationale for not. Had a talk with the SWFA folks yesterday, straight up. They know I want that scope; the listeners and all of the 'Snipers'; here on the singleshot kill 1000 yard 'Error Net' know I want that scope; that is not the issue. HellzBellz even their C/R offered me a substitute Redfield 3-9 USMC commemorative. One problem here, that's not the way you spell SuperSniper. So, they know I'll wait. The problem is the less than forthright manner in which they do business, and the crapola some supposed Gunn'y? put out about hunting lead time is exactly that, crap. You could go to Midway, O/P, [the big Green Box Cabela's] and know ahead of time before you placed you order and that Gunn'y is exactly the big kids, and the adults in USMC do business so don't come the hardcorps crap with this Chief. This is straight up civilian crap. I don't for an instant give two dumps or damn about their interface with the shooting universe.

Anchor'sAweigh/SemperFi--carry on have a fine Navy day
ChiefBull

 

[Night Eagle]

my biggest issue with this thread is i REALLY frown on people who trash venders or business on the internt like this without going through as many steps as they can to avoid it. this is a permenant record that will last forever, long after swfa exists as a business. i think the op could have taken his complaint to upper managment first, and then to pres of the company, prior to trashing (ok so this was polite trashing). basically what the op has done has created a whole mess of negative advertising for swfa, which i dont think is truelly waranted in this case.

night eagle

 

[commandernavi]

I can see what you mean Night Eagle. I honestly didn't intend for that to have happened and honestly never excepted to have this post get big at all (just wanted a few replies telling me I am being an idiot or that SWFA messed up - I got both ), but I don't think it is trashing anybody. Both sides of the argument are present and anybody reading the posts here can decide for themselves what they want to make of it. If nothing else goes amiss I will probably buy from SWFA again knowing the process. It is a good discussion to have and might make (though doubtful) changes to the current system to better suit the customers and make SWFA's reputation even better than it is now.

I really am sorry if this post causes lost revenue for SWFA, but it seems there are others out there who feel SWFA should do more about their inventory policies. :/

 

[smschulz]

Some companies have great customer service an communication ...Brownells, Liberty Optics, MidwayUSA and others.
Some do not, now you know who does not......
Live and learn.

 

[sandwarrior]

It's not that I'm a SWFA fanboi. It's the fact that the customer can't pick up a phone and talk to someone and get their order straight.

Now, if I ordered from SWFA and they said they had it when they didn't, I'd be pissed too. I'm under the understanding that that is how many of you guys feel about the OP's situation. If he ordered online, without talking to a rep and the company went ahead and processed his order....as though they had it, and didn't, He has a legitimate complaint. Even still, if you are new to the game, as I was once too, you pick up the phone and get a real-time status. If they lie and say it's in the mail/shipping..etc. and it's not, you have every right to be pissed.

Which brings me to my rant from last night. Every 'gun' place I have been to in the last eight weeks has someone come in, ask for .22/.223/.308/9mm/.40/.45 IOW, the stuff most everybody shoots. Why don't you have this/that? Lack of preparation by a shooter is not a reason to go off on the merchant world. Yes, they are out to make a buck, but most know gouging is going to hurt them in the long run. The manufacturing end of things is hard pressed to say the least about being able to make what we all, all of a sudden, have to buy.

Now, maybe what I didn't give due recognition was the fact the shooter (OP) maybe called SWFA? and maybe got the answer he didn't want to hear and that was the item he wanted was backordered? Or, did I misunderstand the situation and he was told by SWFA that his item was due in any time? It was my understanding he was informed of the backorder when he called in.

My point here is that a lot of the shooting industry is hard pressed to keep up with demands. The lead times they give were before we had 4 million new shooters come on board this year alone. So, it's a little hard to guestimate when a product will come to to be shipped to the end customer. A shooter getting mad at the people who support his hobby isn't doing anyone any good.

What I don't agree with, and the OP has a legitimate complaint here, is when a company tells the customer "they have it", when they don't. Which brings us to 'real time' inventories. I've been fooled by those before. Fortunately, I was not charged for the item by the company I went to purchase it from until such time as it shipped. A phone call verified the order will not happen as we hoped. I then cancelled and began to look elsewhere.
If SWFA doesn't have 'real time' inventory, so be it. There are ways to get the info you need to continue or cut loose. If they tell you they have it and don't, it's a lie and lying to customers bites them in the end. But, don't blame SWFA unless they lied to you. Getting anything not on the shelf in front of you in today's gun buying world isn't easy.

 

[steve123]

For once I'm going to agree with Bryant. It's 2013 and it's not like live inventory systems are new. SWFA does enough business that they have no excuse for not staying current in the sales industry in order to service the customer properly. Their after-action service may be great, but it doesn't matter if their initial contact goes poorly to begin with.

Also to everyone one of the old crabs on here who whine JUST as much about calling a vendor first, you'd do well to pull your head out of your ass and remember that some people are new to this and don't know to call ahead and don't know necessarily that there are dealers out there like SWFA without live inventory. The OP was extremely courteous in what he wrote but here comes the rat pack to put him down for not blaming himself at every turn for SWFA's FAILURE to inform buyers like almost every other major company does these days of live inventory. At least have an auto-email system in place for back-ordered items. The OP has every right to be slightly frustrated.

To the OP, meet the Hide Vendor Fan Club. Unfortunately there's a pack of people here who believe that their past experience negates and invalidates everyone elses current experiences with a Vendor no matter what the circumstance. They'll condemn and blame you for the actions of a Hide Vendor they love, but then for the very same reason they'll condemn non-vendors like Botach for the EXACT SAME THING. For the record: Botach does suck hairy monkey sack.

Well put Nick!

To the Op

That being said if I'm in need of something soon I make darn sure what I want is in stock and can be purchased immediately and shipped within a day or 2.


Granted, I have had more good experiences than bad with SWFA but they have definitely pissed me off a few times. The worst was when their product return dept ,(new scope DOA) had both employees gone, A with a family emergency and B had quit, no plan C available. I wasn't able to get the CC credited for a month, thus without a scope, very frustrating. Okay, things happen and I forgive the offence.

The SWFA brand scopes are a great value, for me that alone is SWFA's saving grace and why I will likely purchase from them again. There are however other venders here on the Hide I would rather purchase from. Scott at Liberty is one of them, he sets the bar as far as I'm concerned.

 

[scudzuki]

These days if a company has a website with e-commerce, it is commonplace to believe that ordering online is the same as calling in an order, and for the most part, that is true.
I've dealt with dozens of online vendors with weapons-related purchases without ever talking to a live person, and almost universally, my order is processed and shipped in a timely fashion.
Customer service issues are also handled electronically, and I've great results there, as well.

Some Hide vendors offer discounts for Hide members, but not every Hide member is aware of this fact, or that in order to get the discount, it has to be ordered over the phone.

In my opinion, if a company chooses to not have live inventory integrated into their e-commerce site, then they need to at least follow up an order placed online for a product that is out of stock with some notification (an email manually prepared and sent, if need be) to the buyer. Anything less is poor CS, plain and simple. On several occasions I've bought products from other online vendors rather than SWFA; for one, their prices are easily beaten, and if I have to call and check stock and inquire about a discount when I can in 1/10th the time order from a vendor that has it in stock for a lower price, well, it's a no-brainer which way I'm gonna (and have) go.

I have to agree about Scott at Liberty Optics. He sold me an optic at an unbeatable price and still took the time to B.S. with me about guns and politics despite the thin margin he made on that scope, then followed up after the scope arrived to make sure I was happy with my new purchase. Outstanding service.

Joe

 

[ChiefBull]

Well all said and done. What can be said is that there is a 'problem' with inventory control. What cannot be said is that there is any problem with 'physical' product at all. What must be understood that the product has only one aspect of value, to the end user. Timeliness of inventory control and delivery affect over all perceived value to the end user without affecting its 'real' value as an individual stand alone product. 'Worth' along with value are highly subjective notions. I will address the SS line as I have experienced it. The SS16X delivered by UPS was first inspected and the X/Y turrets were opened and inspected for fit, finish and machining. The turrets were then reassembled and dialed through one revolution each and returned to their set 'zeroes' as I received them. In each and every instance turret the drums did not fail to land directly on the stadia marks incised on the turret barrels; turrets were removed with a 2mm allen wrench which fit snugly and cleanly. The objective end bell of the lens barrel was inspected for integrity of threading; 'fine' threading can be poorly done and it will show on a poorly made piece of equipment with 'cross threading' conditions and eventual stripping of the threads. The front element fit cleanly into the endbell barrel. A pinpoint halogen light [as used in Lan.Flt. firebox boiler steamtube inspections] was used to optically inspect the barrel interior through 360degs. of arc and the barrel was purged clean of any manufacturing process particulate with a clean tight fit of scope internals. The machining of the brass "X" axis barrel turret drive showed itself to be clean and crisp with no burring. The 'rear focus ring' while being initially foreign was snug with no over travel; a 100 'measured' yards was dialed and the focus ring landed on the correct stadia mark.
The scope was mounted directly to an M40 on Weaver 30mm"Low" rings and torque spec'd. to 25"lbs. A 20 round box of M118L/R clone ammunition [LCM'89 brass, 175Berger BT Long Range--AA2460-42grns.] was test fired. Target for test record was a 'Standard 25 Yard American Pistol Target' with a 1-1/2 minute "X" ring sanctioned by the 'National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice Approved Target' I do not necessarily not believe in 'box tests'; this is my version of a box test. Some small indeterminate number of rounds two, three or five etc., are not sufficient to say anything realistic about the ammunition, the potential for accuracy of the load, the Rifle, the Scope, or the Rifleman. I walked a twenty round string around the inside of the "X" ring dialing it as I fired the rifle in a 30 second pace, generally similar to M/R and L/R match firing conditions. If there is anything wrong with the variables you will know it. In the Navy this is called 'Destructive testing', i.e. take a main engine drive turbine at 'Standard Bell' slam it into 'All Back Full' and holt it there for two hours. I something is wrong with the plant you'll know it soon. The aggregate score for the 20 round test fire string was a 'clean': 200/w17. The detailed narrative here goes to product which is a part of the"...SWFA experience..." also; it is very good and in my judgment exceeds everything that has been said about it.
The reality here 'commandrnavi' and 'LCdr...' is that SWFA is the sole dealer of their product SWFA SS; it is exceptional in my view; and, they are as the saying goes "...the only game in town...". If they weren't, the contributors here might be elsewhere. Is this a "cheap scope"? No!! Is this an "expensive scope"? No!! Is this an "Inexpensive Scope that is Very Good?" Yes!! An expensive tool can also be a "cheap tool" at first because you have to replace it soon and I wouldn't replace it with a Leupold or S/B if they were offered free either.
What SWFA has to correct is its inventory management; that is a "real time" threat to their future profitability; they don't have to correct the physical component of the product. I have talked and "E'd" Wendi and Ridge and it is they who offered the compromise of a 12X and that with two day UPS, comparable to Midway USA. That is more than good. WQendi has assured me she will 'keep in touch' for the SS10X42MMQ, arrival/availability to complete the M1A build. This is a very good scope, perhaps the best I not one of the best available on the market at "Any Price Point", inventory management problems or not. Take this to the 'Wardroom' and think about it Cdr. I'm a USN Chief Petty Officer, not a 'Sniper' whatever that is or a SoCom 'commando'[not implying anything here so don't wear the shoe]; I'm a pretty fair Rifleman and a "Chief" and I say it like it is. So, if your goal is a very good Riflescope, smile and deal with them SWFA] we know we've had to do worse.

Anchor'sAweigh/SemperFi
ChiefBull

 

[fdkay]

It's not that I'm a SWFA fanboi. It's the fact that the customer can't pick up a phone and talk to someone and get their order straight.

When you send someone a text message or email, do you then call them to make sure they received it AND read it?
If a company can't properly process orders placed online, then they shouldn't offer the service.
I have placed plenty of orders with Midway, Graf and Sons, Midsouth, Wal-mart etc... and NEVER had to call them to make sure they had the item in question, or if they had any other issues with my order.

If a vendor takes an order, it is the VENDORS responsibility, not the customers.