Sidearms & Scatterguns US Border Patrol Selects New Handgun

#53
Skookum said:
@JA Thacker

The info I just got from the arsenal at Harper's Ferry is that it is a 4 lb trigger.
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I had no clue what the trigger weight was. Was just commenting on why anyone would want a 12lbs trigger.

4lbs seems light for a factory Glock trigger. My G34gen5 came at 4.5lbs and my duty G23gen4 is 5.5lbs. I haven't heard of anything lighter from factory than the G34s.
 
#55
JA Thacker said:
I had no clue what the trigger weight was. Was just commenting on why anyone would want a 12lbs trigger.

4lbs seems light for a factory Glock trigger. My G34gen5 came at 4.5lbs and my duty G23gen4 is 5.5lbs. I haven't heard of anything lighter from factory than the G34s.
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I'm pretty sure 4lbs wasn't an exact number. It is probably somewhere between 4 and 5 pounds.
 
#61
It’s about 40k weapons just to start. All of Cbp is included, not just the ~20k BP Agents.

So, that’s $16mil just to get everyone a single weapon. They’ll likely have enough extra for a second issue of weapon if needed when it’s time for a new one.

That’s $32mil

Then there is the g26 that will likely be for plain clothes stuff. I’m betting they buy 10-20k of those.

So that’s 36-40mil just in weapons.

Add in parts and the unknown factor if we will be given parts to interchange ourselves between the 19 and 47 versions to suite our needs.

Number gets big real quick.
 
#62
I never liked the Beretta but it shot well. Carrying it around felt like stuffing a turkey leg in your pocket. But it did shoot well.

I don’t like the P2000 at all. It doesn’t fit my hand & the LEM trigger sucks. The P2000 has been very dependable & accurate. My lost points are my own fault. That being said, good shooter will still shoot it well.

I got about 17,000 rounds out of my first P2000 before it died. I’ve probably got around 7K on the newer gun. I’ve had the SK & USP in addition to the P2000 & actually prefer it to the others.

I can’t wait to transition to the Glocks. I’m not a fanboy, but I do like them. I think that qual scores will jump 15-20 points in average shooters. Your better shooters will always be your better shooters & little will change in that regard.
 
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#63
Most important aspect of a duty weapon, for me anyway, is reliability.

The p2000 was/is very durable and reliable.

Glock I’m sure will be as reliable or better. It may not be my favorite weapon, but I’ll definitely wear on everyday and never worry about its dependability.
 
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#64
I like the Glock ergos. They’re also very reliable w/ a far better trigger than an LEM. I have no doubt this will be a huge change for the better as far as qual scores go.

I wonder if anyone has hard anything in regards to a new COF?

Maybe now I can get a 252 or better the first time, LOL.
 
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#65
Dthomas3523 said:
Most important aspect of a duty weapon, for me anyway, is reliability.

The p2000 was/is very durable and reliable.

Glock I’m sure will be as reliable or better. It may not be my favorite weapon, but I’ll definitely wear on everyday and never worry about its dependability.
Click to expand...

They should have stayed with hk and adopted the vp9 and SK. Hk durrability and accuracy but shoots likes a comp gun. Faster reloads and way better trigger than the lem abortion.
 
#66
With the Beretta I was a solid 350 shooter. After the transition I rarely shoot 340.

I average about 325 right now. Out to 15 yards I can damn near clean it, but drop all my points at 25 yds.
 
#67
Yea the 92 series is vasty underrated. It's a very easy to shoot platform and one of the better da/sa pistols out there. Even as a striker guy I can shoot them well and always scored expert in the army with them. That long sight radius and soft recoil make it a pleasure to shoot. Dod fucked up by not just adopting the m9a3 instead of that curry piece of sig shit
 
#68
Primus said:
Yea the 92 series is vasty underrated. It's a very easy to shoot platform and one of the better da/sa pistols out there. Even as a striker guy I can shoot them well and always scored expert in the army with them. That long sight radius and soft recoil make it a pleasure to shoot. Dod fucked up by not just adopting the m9a3 instead of that curry piece of sig shit
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The Border Patrol model was the 96D Brigadier in 40 S&W. It was a real Cadillac. It wouldn't be the gun I would have chosen for the duty in mind, but it served well enough.
 
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#71
Primus said:
They should have stayed with hk and adopted the vp9 and SK. Hk durrability and accuracy but shoots likes a comp gun. Faster reloads and way better trigger than the lem abortion.
Click to expand...

Vp9 is a huge pile of shit for a duty weapon. I’ve owned them and they are not typical HK quality.

Not even on the same planet at a p2000, p30, or usp as far as durability. Feels like a toy compared to them. And starts failing with the slightest amount of dirt.

That’s coming from an HK snob who thinks the P30L is the best duty/combat sidearm in the planet.
 
#72
Pass the crack.

It went through and passed the same testing every other HK pistol goes through before it gets released. There is a reason their handguns don't require revisions or gens. They work 100% the first time.

HK DA/SA and LEM triggers are strait dog shit. I have owned them all over the years and outside of the USP Tac and MK23 for novelty, the VP9 is the best gun they make.

I have over 15K through two separate vp9's running them in courses run by many of the top names in training. Never once has any of the instructors who are not shy about their opinions, had a bad thing to say about the VP9. There are exactly 3 duty handguns that are worth owning and that is Glock, HK and Wather. The VP9 is the only HK pistol with an actual trigger that is not shit.

I shoot it more accurately, with better ergos and faster split times than any pistol out there. Paddle mag releases are superior to button mag releases in every way.

And as far as the USP series guns go, the only one that really shines is the 45 variant. Every other non 45 variant sees orders of magnitudes more issues from HK USA. The gun was designed around the 45, and it IS the most durable handgun ever made. Federal has/had one that they used to proof test and after 300K rounds they sent it back to HK to make sure it still safe to shoot. They changed out some springs, sent it back and dared them to wear it out. They still haven't and that was 10 years ago.

NO pistol on the planet is as durable as the USP45. You can cherry pick and skew any tests you want to get the results you want.

To claim the VP9 is a pile of shit just shows your ignorance of HK and firearms in general.
 
#73
Primus said:
Pass the crack.

It went through and passed the same testing every other HK pistol goes through before it gets released. There is a reason their handguns don't require revisions or gens. They work 100% the first time.

HK DA/SA and LEM triggers are strait dog shit. I have owned them all over the years and outside of the USP Tac and MK23 for novelty, the VP9 is the best gun they make.

I have over 15K through two separate vp9's running them in courses run by many of the top names in training. Never once has any of the instructors who are not shy about their opinions, had a bad thing to say about the VP9. There are exactly 3 duty handguns that are worth owning and that is Glock, HK and Wather. The VP9 is the only HK pistol with an actual trigger that is not shit.

I shoot it more accurately, with better ergos and faster split times than any pistol out there. Paddle mag releases are superior to button mag releases in every way.

And as far as the USP series guns go, the only one that really shines is the 45 variant. Every other non 45 variant sees orders of magnitudes more issues from HK USA. The gun was designed around the 45, and it IS the most durable handgun ever made. Federal has/had one that they used to proof test and after 300K rounds they sent it back to HK to make sure it still safe to shoot. They changed out some springs, sent it back and dared them to wear it out. They still haven't and that was 10 years ago.

NO pistol on the planet is as durable as the USP45. You can cherry pick and skew any tests you want to get the results you want.

To claim the VP9 is a pile of shit just shows your ignorance of HK and firearms in general.
Click to expand...

There’s the normal primus piece of shit post I’m used to.

Welcome back. Thought someone had hacked your account.
 
#74
Primus said:
Pass the crack.

It went through and passed the same testing every other HK pistol goes through before it gets released. There is a reason their handguns don't require revisions or gens. They work 100% the first time.

HK DA/SA and LEM triggers are strait dog shit. I have owned them all over the years and outside of the USP Tac and MK23 for novelty, the VP9 is the best gun they make.

I have over 15K through two separate vp9's running them in courses run by many of the top names in training. Never once has any of the instructors who are not shy about their opinions, had a bad thing to say about the VP9. There are exactly 3 duty handguns that are worth owning and that is Glock, HK and Wather. The VP9 is the only HK pistol with an actual trigger that is not shit.

I shoot it more accurately, with better ergos and faster split times than any pistol out there. Paddle mag releases are superior to button mag releases in every way.

And as far as the USP series guns go, the only one that really shines is the 45 variant. Every other non 45 variant sees orders of magnitudes more issues from HK USA. The gun was designed around the 45, and it IS the most durable handgun ever made. Federal has/had one that they used to proof test and after 300K rounds they sent it back to HK to make sure it still safe to shoot. They changed out some springs, sent it back and dared them to wear it out. They still haven't and that was 10 years ago.

NO pistol on the planet is as durable as the USP45. You can cherry pick and skew any tests you want to get the results you want.

To claim the VP9 is a pile of shit just shows your ignorance of HK and firearms in general.
Click to expand...
I guess being in a sector that has over 1500 shooters firing 100's of thousands of rounds a year through the HK P2000, HK P2000SK, HK USP 40 and HK UMP 40, for the last 14 years since the transition in 2005 doesn't count for much as far as HK knowledge.

I guess the feed back from the other sectors and ports of entry amounting to over 30,000 additional shooters doesn't count for HK knowledge either.

20,000 BP agents alone firing a minimum of 400 rounds per year equals 8,000,000 rounds per year. Since 2005, that is a minimum of 112,000,000 rounds fired through HK weapons. I guess that doesn't count either.
 
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#77
I’ll be the first to say that I don’t “prefer” to shoot a P2000. No argument in that it’s uncomfortable. However, I have no problem trusting my life to its ability to work as designed. It’s accurate too. I’ve shot it at 100 yards lots of times & scored good hits. To say that it’s garbage is ignorant, possibly even stupid.

I made a joke about possibly passing a qual the first time w/ a 252 but that was in jest. I’m not a super shooter by any means but I qual’ed last week w/ 100+ points over that 252. All points dropped we’re because of my errors.

I have zero experience w/ the VP9 so I can’t comment. I will say that I liked the DA/SA trigger on the P30L model.
 
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#78
Skookum said:
At night....in the brush.....in the river bottom....one handed....from a hands and knees crawling position....in a tunnel.....with a gun full of twigs and sand from crawling down rabbit holes.
Click to expand...

I’ve put the dust, dirt, brush, and humidity into vp9. Two of them. Obviously a sample size of two.

Also done it to P30L, usp and daily on duty with p2000.

Give you one guess which two went down.
 
#79
I’ve also ran the P2000 along the NB as well. That pistol has seen temps as low as -37* F & it’s also seen 120+ degrees along the Rio.

As I said, its not my favorite pistol but the P2000 is incredibly reliable. It’s accurate too. What more are you asking from it?
 
#80
The Beretta was built with way too tight tolerances in the slide fit, but it was extremely easy to field clean. A simple flick of a lever and a couple of passes with an old toothbrush (which many of us kept in our tricky bags) and it was up and running again.

The HK has just enough clearance that the sand would lock it solidly together at times. But the majority of the time it worked just fine with minimal maintenance. The USP was quite a bit more reliable than the P2000 but they were rare after the transition. You had to know someone to get one, or be BORSTAR or BORTAC.
 
#81
Skookum said:
The Beretta was built with way too tight tolerances in the slide fit, but it was extremely easy to field clean. A simple flick of a lever and a couple of passes with an old toothbrush (which many of us kept in our tricky bags) and it was up and running again.

The HK has just enough clearance that the sand would lock it solidly together at times. But the majority of the time it worked just fine with minimal maintenance. The USP was quite a bit more reliable than the P2000 but they were rare after the transition. You had to know someone to get one, or be BORSTAR or BORTAC.
Click to expand...

I guess I’m the exception as I belong to neither & have a USP & P2000. Believe it or not, of the two I prefer the P2000.
 
#84
Skookum said:
The parts are already gone. If you break your gun right now, even something simple, you will get a different one of the relatively few left in inventory.
Click to expand...

Let me know when the inventory is gone.

Mine will probably finally stop working within a few days of notification. Coincidentally of course.
 
#90
WATERWALKER said:
There’s going to be a lot of 360s w/ the 9MM. Scores are going to climb a bunch. We have a very solid pistol program overall. Maybe we’ll even go back to the 50 w/ a new qual course, LOL.
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I think we are supposed to go to the "Buddha" qual. That is the new unified CBP qual. It is called the "Buddha" qual due to the unusual shape of the scoring rings.

The desire to incorporate Customs and BP FITP meant that Customs had to pass our qual. Well, very few of them could so of course the difficulty had to be lessened.
 
#91
Skookum said:
I guess being in a sector that has over 1500 shooters firing 100's of thousands of rounds a year through the HK P2000, HK P2000SK, HK USP 40 and HK UMP 40, for the last 14 years since the transition in 2005 doesn't count for much as far as HK knowledge.

I guess the feed back from the other sectors and ports of entry amounting to over 30,000 additional shooters doesn't count for HK knowledge either.

20,000 BP agents alone firing a minimum of 400 rounds per year equals 8,000,000 rounds per year. Since 2005, that is a minimum of 112,000,000 rounds fired through HK weapons. I guess that doesn't count either.
Click to expand...
The truth is no, they dont know what's good for them. And even if they did don't pretend like these were a consensus of requirements built into a rfp. And not sure what you are refuting or how it effects what I posted. If you think federal firearms procurement have anything to do with the end user, come on over here and sit down.
 
#92
Skookum said:
Me too. I have an SK that I carry for myself. I'll probably keep it. It is accurate and works just fine. But I would like to have an easier gun to shoot 360 with.
Click to expand...

I spent 6-8mo really working on my fundamentals with the LEM. I was a 320 or so shooter. Now my “low” score is around 345.

But I haven’t been able to pull off a 360. Last two I was perfect going into the 25yd. Ended up in the 350’s. ??
 
#93
And ya know what's funny. A little over 10 years ago I was waiting for my class date for arteiesta and got offered a different fed position and took that instead. Wonder how different my carear would have been if I waited for my class date instead. I was hired to the NB as well but told I needed to do 24 months of the SB first.
 
#94
Primus said:
And not sure what you are refuting or how it effects what I posted.
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This:
Primus said:
To claim the VP9 is a pile of shit just shows your ignorance of HK and firearms in general.
Click to expand...
Northern Border Interns did 9 months on the southern border, not 24 months.

It is a good thing you weren't hired to the northern border. NBI's are not well thought of among many who have spent their time in the sand.

Given your apparent attitude, I suspect you would be roundly hated at any station you went to. BP agents are some of the most arrogant fucks in the entire FED LEO world, but we are expected to earn it first.
 
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#96
Soulezoo said:
On Glocks, for disassembly-- removing slide from lower receiver-- one must pull the trigger to ensure the striker is not loaded (cocked if you will for better understanding) before bumping the slide back that smidge and pulling the slide lock bar down to remove the slide.

I agree that this is a flaw and I am the dumbass with the ND with this procedure.
(Although in having weapon pointed in safe direction, I shot my wife's ex's car! Kinda enjoyed that actually)
Click to expand...

The flaw is yours and yours alone.
 
#98
Skookum said:
This:

Northern Border Interns did 9 months on the southern border, not 24 months.

It is a good thing you weren't hired to the northern border. NBI's are not well thought of among many who have spent their time in the sand.

Given your apparent attitude, I suspect you would be roundly hated at any station you went to. BP agents are some of the most arrogant fucks in the entire FED LEO world, but we are expected to earn it first.
Click to expand...
At the time I was told 24 months, which was the main reason I ended up passing in the offer. Even with LEAP I make more now and don't have to roll around with shit again and scum all day. I did my interview with some agents out of Harrisburg airport and they are the ones who A. Recommended me for the hire and .B told me about the time on the SB. Not like you need to learn Spanish to guard the snow Mexicans anyway.
 
#99
Skookum said:
This:

Northern Border Interns did 9 months on the southern border, not 24 months.

It is a good thing you weren't hired to the northern border. NBI's are not well thought of among many who have spent their time in the sand.

Given your apparent attitude, I suspect you would be roundly hated at any station you went to. BP agents are some of the most arrogant fucks in the entire FED LEO world, but we are expected to earn it first.
Click to expand...

LMAO. Thinking of him pulling a drag at 40 MPH, telling everyone how to catch IAs w/ never having app’d anything.
 
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