Night Vision Using a PVS14 and a Magnified Scope

[jakerz3]

So, I've ran a QD mount with my PVS14 behind my aimpoint with good luck. Typically wearing it on my helmet and attaching it to my rifle when I get to where I'm going. However, I just purchased a 1-4x scope (not here yet) and was wondering if it is possible to run the NV with a 1-4x scope? If so, how well does it work and how do you have it mounted? Pics of your setup would be greatly appreciated. Normally I would search for something like this, but it looks like Google hasn't indexed the new info for this site yet.

I guess I could always go with an IR laser if I had too.

It's tough for me to get out at night and test. Thanks for any help on this.

-Jake

 

[jwp6114]

from what i understand the pvs-14 has no colimating device therefore there would be an extreme POI shift if you used it infron of a day scope with no colimating device.

- also Jake

 

[jwp6114]

might look into a unit like this... http://blackoptex.net/zero-lens.html

 

[wirehand]

http://www.modarmory.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=30&products_id=894

No experiance with this.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I've had a chance to play with both and here is what I think:

The PVS14 works very well clipped behind the back of a good quality scope. There are some very nice adapters for solidly clipping it to the back of the scope. When focused right the picture is very clear and depending on your scope, you can use the magnification quite well. The 2 downsides are that it sticks way out the back of your scope so you either have to move the scope forward or have kind of an odd hold on your rifle. The second is that it takes a bit of work to get setup right as you need to fine tune the focus and then you are good to go.

The Black Optex mounting package works very well for putting your PVS14 in front of your scope and is quick to setup http://blackoptex.net/index.html
It does however limit the use of much magnification on the scope and costs a lot more.

If you don't need a lot of magnification, have a lower powered scope and want fast setup, the Black Optex one is the way to go.

Just to add, I noticed you are in OK, if you can get down to Dallas sometime in the evening, there is a dealer here that can demo them both for you and you can bring your own scope if you want to as well. If you are interested, PM me your information & I'll give it to them and ask them to call you.

 

[jakerz3]

I've had a chance to play with both and here is what I think:

The PVS14 works very well clipped behind the back of a good quality scope. There are some very nice adapters for solidly clipping it to the back of the scope. When focused right the picture is very clear and depending on your scope, you can use the magnification quite well. The 2 downsides are that it sticks way out the back of your scope so you either have to move the scope forward or have kind of an odd hold on your rifle. The second is that it takes a bit of work to get setup right as you need to fine tune the focus and then you are good to go.

The Black Optex mounting package works very well for putting your PVS14 in front of your scope and is quick to setup http://blackoptex.net/index.html
It does however limit the use of much magnification on the scope and costs a lot more.

If you don't need a lot of magnification, have a lower powered scope and want fast setup, the Black Optex one is the way to go.

Just to add, I noticed you are in OK, if you can get down to Dallas sometime in the evening, there is a dealer here that can demo them both for you and you can bring your own scope if you want to as well. If you are interested, PM me your information & I'll give it to them and ask them to call you.

I appreciate everyone's help on this. Looking at what the other options are, I feel it might just be best to stick with my my aimpoint for night use and save up for for one of those clip on units that ride in front of the scope for magnified optics. Thank you everyone for the great information.

 

[JB55]

If you are going to be sitting in a stand, the pvs-14 attached to your scope can work quite well, as long as your scope has an adjustable objective. Side focusing is easier than reaching down the scope to turn the objective, but both will work. You also need a scope with good light gathering capabilities and USUALLY, the bigger the objective, the better the light transmission. I use mine quite often and can go up to 10X - 12X before quality drops off.

TNVC used to sell one and although I've not used the Night Optics unit, I'd bet that it would work well. You do lose some image quality any time you look through more glass (lenses) but I'll continue using mine instead of buying a new clip-on. I've NEVER had a POI issue. That happens when you put the NV at the other end of the scope.

 

[jwp6114]

It hurt bad spending Pvs-22 dollars, but man it works great

 

[JB55]

No doubt the PVS-22 will work much better, it's just a lot more money.

 

[jwp6114]

It hurt something fierce, but glad I bought it.

 

[SkyPup]

I use my PVS-14 behind my Redfield 3-9X-50mm on my TC and behind my Leopold 1-4X-32mm Pig Plex scope and it works just fine.

Tree is 175 yards:

 

[Augustus]

W-54 , I don't think you will be happy with a PVS 14 in front of a day scope. Unless there have been changes made on the newer models you will be shooting all over the place.

 

[Direct_Fire]

What kind of rifle are you using? I have used an extra PVS14 in front of my Acog TA01 on my M4 with no issue several times while using another 14 on my helmet. It does help to use some sort of IR light to help it out(ie: Surefire IR/LED head on a M600). If you are running a bolt gun that does not allow for forward mounting you can contact Larue and you can try out their STOMP setup. It will allow you to mount your 14s upside down in front of your scope.

http://www.laruetactical.com/stomp-sniper-total-optical-mounting-package-lt-stomp


Good Luck,
Dave

 

[JB55]

I think that STOMP is meant for clip-ons. Never used one before as the ad states LEO and MIL only.

 

[Augustus]

It don't matter what kind of rifle is used. PVS 14 in front of a day scope equals inaccuracy. Parallax will eat you up, if you don't believe me go shoot at a 1 Moa circle at 100 yds, move your eye up, down, side to side to the extreme edges of you're FOV between shots. Measure your group then come back here and report the results.

 

[Augustus]

All, it is common knowledge putting a PVS 14 in front of your optics is a no-no. There may be newer PVS 14 units that will work in front of optics but I have not seen them nor have I seen any manufacturers recommend that they be used in this manner. Dm, I see you are deployed, please don't bet your life on the set-up you described unless you have tested it for accuracy. Mine has several Moa of parallax when used the way you described. It will probably be ok for close engagements but unless you have something different than I have seen, precise placement is out of the question. If you haven't done so please check it out.

 

[Augustus]

I just checked my PVS 14 in front of my COMP M2. It has 16 Moa of parallax. Check yours out boys, you do not want to carry a set up like this into a firefight.

 

[Augustus]

Played with the PVS 14 in front of a couple of more scopes. The parallax can be minimized by using the focus adjustments on the NV. Since the Comp M2 has no magnification it is not as noticeable when the unit is I little out of focus. Being just a little out of focus can change the POI quite a bit. In front of a 4x scope the parallax is not all that bad as long as you have a clear FOV. If it gets a little fuzzy the reticle crawls all over the place. Long story short I guess you could use it in front of a 4x day scope but you need to become intimately familiar with it and understand it's limitations. I didn't play with it at different distances but I suspect if you get it parallax free at 100 yds then go to 400 yds without re-focusing there may be a problem. Anyway check it out. You don't need to fire rds to see what's going on.

 

[marshalltx]

When you say 'in front' do you mean that the NVD is closer to the muzzle or closer to your eye...I have my NV compatible EOTECH and NVD w/ 3x setup like the pic below- not sure if my POI is shifting with this setup from my daytime zero.

http://s6.beta.photobucket.com/user/Heineken420/media/DSCN3234.jpg.html

thanks
marshall

 

[Augustus]

You have the EOTECH in front of the NVD. This is how a PVS14 is intended to be used, you should not see any POI shift. Since your EOTECH is mounted on the free float tube there is a possibility of a wandering POI due to the inherent instability of the tube. It looks like your tube is set up with tension screws, if everything is screwed down tight it will probably work ok for close work. I would not be comfortable with that set-up for a long range precision rig.

 

[jakerz3]

When you say 'in front' do you mean that the NVD is closer to the muzzle or closer to your eye...I have my NV compatible EOTECH and NVD w/ 3x setup like the pic below- not sure if my POI is shifting with this setup from my daytime zero.

http://s6.beta.photobucket.com/user/Heineken420/media/DSCN3234.jpg.html

thanks
marshall

I'm running a PVS-14 behind my aimpoint right now and am having great results. However, the aimpoint is on the receiver and mounted forward with plenty of room for the NV. I plan on installing a 1-4x scope instead of an aimpoint and there wont be any room on the receiver to mount my NV like I do now. I'm now considering a clip-on or something cheaper like an IR laser and just run that.

Thanks again for everyone's experience. It's been helpful reading the other options that are out there.

 

[TxHammer]

http://www.hightechredneckincorporated.com/High_Tech_Red_Neck_Day_Night_Scope_Adapter_s/37.htm

 

[TxHammer]

http://youtu.be/mh36YZHujl0

 

[CowboyBart]

I use my PVS-14 behind my Redfield 3-9X-50mm on my TC and behind my Leopold 1-4X-32mm Pig Plex scope and it works just fine.

Tree is 175 yards:

SkyPup:
I want to do a set up like yours on a Contender Carbine 300 Whisper.
How is the eye relief effected ??
Can you take the NVD off and use the rifle in the day time?? (w/o moving the day light scope)
I will be using an Accu Point 3-9x40 scope.
Any info on the mount would be helpful also.

 

[The Rat]

Seconded. Interested in a good day scope adapter like that as well.

 

[SkyPup]

There is not a whole lot of extended eye relief on the PVS-14, this is a .223 shooting 70-77grain through a 1:7" twist, so recoil is not a problem.

You can instantly remove or install the PVS-14 in about ten seconds, also not a problem.

If you have an IR Illuminator, you can use it all the up to full power anytime. It makes for a super light rifle and no shift in POI either.

I leave the scope mounted in its normal day position, it would be more comfortable at night with the PVS-14 to move the scope up, but for me it is not a problem to make the shot.

Super clear view, works like a charm.

TNVC makes an adapter for this:

http://nvec.tnvc.com/shop/universal-adapter-for-pvs-14/

The one I am using is the Night Optics unit:

http://www.opticsplanet.com/night-o...lYAEg&ef_id=UTUuTAAAASgmFxwl:20130304232916:s

 

[charger23]

might look into a unit like this... http://blackoptex.net/zero-lens.html

I've tried to contact these guys several times with no return calls, no response to online messaging, no one answers the phone... Owner on here?

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

Mount it behind the scope on a ar platform. It works great! You will be amazed at the accuracy and use of magnification you vand get to with it.

I have shot with mine on a 5x25x56 s&b and I have actually got to 700yrds on a clear night 1/2 moon. 16x16" plate painted white. This proves accuracy and visibility of the combo. Only problem is I did it on my heavy .308 bolt gun ( No recoil ) luckily because its awkward as hell because it sticks way off the back....

Which is why I say use it on a ar platform!

 

[lhchief84]

My brother just acquired the Gen 3 pinnacle pvs-14 yesterday with the intent to mount it to a variety of different small caliber rifles with scopes. He not only got the "throw lever" mount that attaches to the picatinny rail, but purchased the jackrabbit mount from high tech rednecks. This weekend we are going to put the pvs14/scope mount to the test to see what it is all about.

Ill get back to you guys next week with the verdict, and hopefully some nice pics of dogs and hogs down! Cheers....it is almost friday!

 

[Loggers Inn]

My brother just acquired the Gen 3 pinnacle pvs-14 yesterday with the intent to mount it to a variety of different small caliber rifles with scopes. He not only got the "throw lever" mount that attaches to the picatinny rail, but purchased the jackrabbit mount from high tech rednecks. This weekend we are going to put the pvs14/scope mount to the test to see what it is all about.

Ill get back to you guys next week with the verdict, and hopefully some nice pics of dogs and hogs down! Cheers....it is almost friday!

I bought a jack rabbit quick attach for my son to use dawg hunting. ITT pvs14 mounted behind a vortex viper 2.5-10x40 and it's a pretty good set up really. And what I like about it is it's simple. When we get on stand we usually focus it in and leave it alone. I can see my coon hound at my shop which is about 400 yrds from my house with the torch on and wouldnt b afraid to shoot. But it's flat terrain and I know it's my hound too. Getting to the point I can see a good distance with this set up and a good IR devise. Bout a week ago slipped into a honey hole had 5 dawgs come haulin ass in on pup distress shot 1 with ease at 250 I could see him with great detail

 

[Loggers Inn]

Forgot to mention I'm scanning with a ps 32 flir and I leave the Pvs14 mounted on the AR

 

[Desmodus]

Have you used a PVS 14 mounted behind a day scope and compared to PVS22 (the latter of course mounted in front). I'm curious if there are significant advantages to the PVS22 besides the ability to use it on calibers > .223 and the ability to mount it w/o moving the day scope forward.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Have you used a PVS 14 mounted behind a day scope and compared to PVS22 (the latter of course mounted in front). I'm curious if there are significant advantages to the PVS22 besides the ability to use it on calibers > .223 and the ability to mount it w/o moving the day scope forward.

Hanging a 14 behind the day scope does not compare well with a high quality clip-on out in front. Much better clarity at the 6x and above arena plus no cheek weld or eye relief issues at times which does happen with the 14 out back of the day scope. Far field and near field focusing of the day scope reticle is also tough at 6x and above with the 14 behind.

Vic

 

[harlikwin]

Have you used a PVS 14 mounted behind a day scope and compared to PVS22 (the latter of course mounted in front). I'm curious if there are significant advantages to the PVS22 besides the ability to use it on calibers > .223 and the ability to mount it w/o moving the day scope forward.

Clip ons are way better for the reasons Vic stated. You also tend to loose alot of light going through the scope when using the rear mounts versus the clip on.

Basically the rear mount option is a "Cheap" kludge for those guys that have PVS-14's and can't afford a proper clip-on. It works, its just far from ideal.

 

[nightwolf0215]

I have seen through a PVS-14 behind an Eotech, but this is nice. I will have to find one to try out

 

[Loggers Inn]

That's some pretty harsh words knockin people that can't afford a high $ clip on. I'm quite sure there are a lot of individuals on this thread that can afford one, they just choose to use their accessories in all possible ways. "The PVS-14 is the standard-issue night vision optic serving US forces on the front lines of the Global War on Terror. Its phenomenal versatility makes it the premier choice for Law Enforcement Professionals as well.* PVS-14’s can be mounted on helmets for hands-free use, behind weapon optics, or simply as a handheld device.". Hell I see guys and their equipment*tallying over $10,000-$15,000 to shoot $25 coyote doesn't mean they can't afford 1 or they cheap asses. Using it behind an optic my not be the best but it sure works fine for my 12 yr old son while he scans with his FLIR. And I'm sure a PVS 22 is better, it should be for a $6,500 price difference. If you need to shoot with in 350 yards it does quite well I think

 

[Desmodus]

Vic,

Not a surprising answer. Has TNVC or someone else done a comparison to see at what distance the two are somewhat comparable and where that comparability falls off?

It would be most interesting if there were some actual shooting data comparing the two approaches and defining the limitations of the PVS14 behind a day scope.

Pat

 

[Loggers Inn]

I'm not doubting that a clip on is better. I'm sure it is by all means, any high tech hunting devise in the range of $10,000 has to be a good devise. I'm just saying using it to hunt with and shoot with, out to about 350 yards with a good scope is a pretty good set up if u already have a pvs14. Now saying there are people on this thread including myself with tens of thousands of dollars in night vision equipment and just because we don't have a clip-on and prefer to use a devise in a certain way we are a bunch of cheap asses! I use it this way because #1, it's any easy set up when I take my son and his friend hunting. #2, I thought a hide member was asking about a pvs14 behind a magnified scope not a comparison on a clip-on vs. a pvs14, hell we all know which is better!