I have two rifles I would like your opinions on since I am looking to sell them in the near future as I am moving and selling my collection down. I have what appears a Model 70 Winchester in 30-06 that is in the 45,46X serial range with a Winchester barrel marked 30-06 55 under the barrel hidden by the stock. It has a 8x Unertl USMC scope and is in a Winchester Marksman stock with a leather sling. The rifle appears to be orginal according to Chandler in his book " Death From Afar" as far as correct serial number range. It is also marked U.S. Property on the left side of the receiver in electric Pencil. The other rifle is a Remington 700 Serial # 287,72X with a green annodized Redfield scope in 7.62mm and all the markings are correct according to Chandler except it falls outside his serial number range. The rifle is also a shade of parkerized green and stamped U.S. Property and appears to be orginal. I purchased both rifles from a widow of a USMC gunsmith a few years ago while in North Carolina. She said her husband had these rifles for many years and I was fortunate enough to find both. There is no other documentation with them. I have no idea what they are worth but it should be quite a bit since they are so rare. I am asking you- the experts for your opinion. I am trying to enclosing photos of them and can only up load one I will try to answer questions if you have any? No I am not looking to trade for them as I am selling quite a few other weapons also. I also have other snipers such as a Mint L-42A1 Set and a Mint #4MK1T Rig also plus an unfired/ un issued 91/30 Russian that's all matching. Thanks and God Bless!
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USMC Mod 70 and M-40 Sniper Finds
- Thread starter Eaglewingman
- Start date
I will try to take some of both the #4MK1T and the L-42A1 as both look new and are all matching with wooden crates.
Need to figure out how to get photos reduced in Jpeg size as my photos are too large for this site to accept to publish here? I have many nice photos of both the USMC Win 70 and the M-40 snipers I want to share. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Each of the two: M70 and M700 should bring $10K. It took me years to piece my collection; you did good.
Not just one (1) but two (2) phenomenal resources...
What a phenomenal set of resources you have. Since your initial posting, I've really been looking forward to seeing more of your photos, especially your M40. If you need any assistance with your digital photos, drop me a PM and I'll help in any way I can, to get them from your files and into the Sniper Hide forums. I look forward to hearing back, from you. BT
What a phenomenal set of resources you have. Since your initial posting, I've really been looking forward to seeing more of your photos, especially your M40. If you need any assistance with your digital photos, drop me a PM and I'll help in any way I can, to get them from your files and into the Sniper Hide forums. I look forward to hearing back, from you. BT
If there are no issues with either, they are likely to fall in the $10-15K range each. Jack the dog sold the best M70 with USMC Unertl, case and sale documents from the 1950s for $15K. To me that was the best deal I have ever know on a US M-70 so that must be top dollar for the best available. Both scopes are $5K scopes on average. Sounds like great rifles. Wish I had a pile of money. The Brit snipers are super rifles too. Good luck.
Valuation(s)...
If memory serves me correctly, one of the last complete-original/certified M40's sold at auction, by the CMP went for ~$34,000.00 A used/original M40 stock goes, today, for ~$1,500.00 and you won't be the only person looking for one. There is intensive interest in these original vintage rifles today.
If memory serves me correctly, one of the last complete-original/certified M40's sold at auction, by the CMP went for ~$34,000.00 A used/original M40 stock goes, today, for ~$1,500.00 and you won't be the only person looking for one. There is intensive interest in these original vintage rifles today.
Actually, that auction was a while back and more like $36000. CMP can get crazy money. Part of it is unquestionable legitimacy. No doubt a legit M40 can bring huge money but I was offered one for $12,500 and another for quite a bit less than the $18,000 price tag on another. The second was an awards rifles, with complete paperwork, case, plaque on the stock in the same name as the paperwork, wrappings, never fired since it was presented at the match. Missed getting it by 17 hrs. It was a much better rifle than the CMP record setter which is not a good indicator of the FMV IMO. Got another example later for less than the other two complete with green scope in beautiful condition. If someone can get $36K for one, more power to them.
Vintage snipers is my main collecting interest and has been for 20 years. It is pricey so buying is slowing down in retirement. I have examples of all the rifles the OP lists. The L42A1 is sure a pretty rifle. Nice one at SOS complete with the stuff for $5750, which I think was a bargain.
MR, There is so little information available, on market valuations, it seems. Thanks for putting out this information where others, like myself, can view it in the context of a reliable source. You've acquired, through diligence, a rather nice collection and there are a bunch of guys on the Vintage Bolt Action/M40 Build thread that would really like to see some photos of your original M40's. Actually, you're exactly one of those people that I've been looking for. For those of us building clones, there are some details that can only come from originals. Photographs, details, especially measurements and original specifications are all welcomed. Subject, of course, to your review and considerations. Thanks, BT
I currently only have the one M-40. The guy that got the awards rifle had 5 at the SOS and his table mate had another. Every rifle had an original brown case. I was quite frankly overwhelmed looking at so many in one place. He proceeded to show me variations in scope rings, scope markings, barrel markings, etc.. It was more than I could process. I used these two guys and a couple other sources to OK the one I got. According to them the screws for the rings and an added butt pad are my rifle's warts. I could use one of those $1500 original stocks.
Still... you do have one (1) original M40. I think we can get past a few warts. We'll see you when you get there. It's not exactly like leaping across the Grand Canyon.
Tell us about the SOS a/k/a SHOW OF SHOWS- Which are the best ones and are you allowed to photo-document any of the rifles? If, as you state, there were numerous variations in scope rings, scope markings and barrel markings, etc., then we are still working with a woefully insufficient and very limited amount of information on these rifles. Barely adequate, might be a better description.
Even small contributions are appreciated.
Perhaps, we'll even hear from the member that started this thread.
Tell us about the SOS a/k/a SHOW OF SHOWS- Which are the best ones and are you allowed to photo-document any of the rifles? If, as you state, there were numerous variations in scope rings, scope markings and barrel markings, etc., then we are still working with a woefully insufficient and very limited amount of information on these rifles. Barely adequate, might be a better description.
Even small contributions are appreciated.
Perhaps, we'll even hear from the member that started this thread.
The NGD/SOS is in Louisville KY, usually late Feb. or early March. It is huge. The NGD show happens 5 time per year. There is a show in early Oct.. The general rule, like most shows, is no photos. It certainly does happen but getting a bunch would probably get you thrown out. The guys with all the M40s, I have known them for years and it has taken quite a bit of time to get them to open up and show so much to me. I have never seen them post them. I know one is on CMP.
I feel very lucky to have an example, even if the original stock has been altered a bit. I am really sad I missed the awards rifle. I was selling some real treasures at 70% or less of their value. Simpson bought 2 biggies Sunday before 9AM giving me the funds but the rifle went to deep pockets about 3PM Saturday.
It had an USMC refinished stock(pretty glossy), added butt plaque with name, event and date, pretty glossy black Accurange not numbered to the rifle. Late rifles were not matched in the same manner as some earlier rifles. As I recall the mount base was also not numbered. It was a treasure but it was not as manufactured, I am sure.
I feel very lucky to have an example, even if the original stock has been altered a bit. I am really sad I missed the awards rifle. I was selling some real treasures at 70% or less of their value. Simpson bought 2 biggies Sunday before 9AM giving me the funds but the rifle went to deep pockets about 3PM Saturday.
It had an USMC refinished stock(pretty glossy), added butt plaque with name, event and date, pretty glossy black Accurange not numbered to the rifle. Late rifles were not matched in the same manner as some earlier rifles. As I recall the mount base was also not numbered. It was a treasure but it was not as manufactured, I am sure.
Op, with regards to your rifles, some provenance will obviously increase their value immensely. I believe Winchester charges a fee approx. $100 and they will send you a letter with regards, when it was manufactured, who it was originally shipped to, etc. The price of a USMC Unertls is staggering alone, theres two listed on Ebay at 5800 and 8300 but whether they sell is another thing. With regards to your USMC M40, the CMP rifle that sold for $36000 was actually a USAF Remington M700 sniper and not a Corp M40. Several of the presentation rifles given out of by the Corp to National match winners and pictured in Senichs books were also apparently, originally USAF contract rifles. If you were able to check the DOD registry and see which branch of the military got the rifle originally, obviously that would be huge and if it was USMC while that would just the icing. You mentioned you purchased the rifles from the widow of a retired USMC armorer, I think it would easy enough to find out, if the gentleman actually was a former RTE and would also lend credence to the rifles.
If you check and find out they want them back, then what? I'd find the widow and find some documentation. If you know the mans name, do some research. Without pictures and with months gone by since the original post, I kind of think someone is trolling.
The model 70 without proper docs. is just that, a mod 70 target. I wish you good luck, you will find nothing from Winchester archives BUT you can get Van Ordens SN and find out if they went thru his company. Get your s&it right and I will pay big bucks for the Winchester. very best WinchesterPoor, maybe cattle buyer here on the hide.
Hmmm, my M70's serial number is pretty close to the OP's M70's serial number, maybe I can claim mine to be a USMC rifle as well?
Hmmm, my M70's serial number is pretty close to the OP's M70's serial number, maybe I can claim mine to be a USMC rifle as well?
What is a machinegunner doing with a rifle?
Anyone that wanted a great M70 with documents, original scope, case, etc. messed up big time when they missed Jack the Dogs recent auction. That was the best example I have ever seen for sale and $15K was a steal. I think $20K would be closer to value. I am amazed it went so cheap.
Mine is a CMP rifle so no worries on mine. It is also properly marked US Property.
