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USMCSGT0331 newbies guide to building a M40
- Thread starter Chris831
- Start date
My apologies, I assumed the more comments I made the higher the chances of someone seeing it and being able to help me would go up. I won't make any more... Thank you for the feedback and reply.
I do have a question, I don't know if this has been discussed here or not... My newly acquired M40 is the first wooden stock rifle I have ever owned, I have cleaned the bolt, barrel etc. I have not cleaned the stock yet, I don't want to damage the wood. What do you all recommend on treating the wood with that won't damage it in the long run?
I personally wipe mine down with Boiled Linseed Oil every few years. I've always had good luck with it.
Thank you for the reply. I appreciate it. I will give that a try, I'm assuming a little of that goes along way.
It does. I pull all metal off the stock and then put a coat on it and let it sit for about 20 minutes. Then wipe off any excess.
It works great and I do this to every wood stocked rifle I own. Even extremely expensive stocks.
Just make sure all metal is removed or otherwise it sort of makes a mess on metal.
Do you know what action screws were originally on the M40? My SSA came with allen head screws, it appears the Chuck Mawhinney batch of rifles came with flathead screws. I recently had to do some stock work, what are the torque specs? I don't want to over/under torque, since the stock is wood I'm assuming 30-40?
I'm sure some of you guys have seen this and I apologize of it has already been posted. I found this video on YouTube and it has some really good M40 footage from Viet Nam. Check it out, no sound but some great footage.
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Looks great, and I'm very happy to hear that this thread has been helpful! Did you ever consider doing the left rail cut to your receiver? I always ask people what they think about this cut, and whether or not they'll do it for their M40 build. It's one of those very small details that only an M40 super nerd would actually know, so it's not a necessary cut unless you're building the most detailed M40 clone possible.
Thanks USMCSGT0331. After reading your earlier post about doing the relief cut, as a minimum, I decided that I'd just do this cut. Might consider the others on the next build.
Thanks for the feedback! This specific cut has always been an area of discussion in M40 clone building. The left rail cut can be pretty tricky to do, and it's quite understandable that a lot of people don't want to risk cutting it wrong or potentially ruining their receiver if anything happens. It's VERY common for M40 cloners to just disregard this cut entirely, and it's usually due to the risks involved or the extra gunsmithing fee (and sometimes it's because the clone builder isn't even aware the left rail cut exists on original USMC M40's). I know people who do their own gunsmithing, and they flat out refuse to attempt this cut on their receivers due to the risk involved. It's too back that Raven isn't building rifles anymore, he mastered the left rail cut and could probably do it blindfolded!
We strive to build extremely accurate clones, but sometimes the extra risk and/or cost might be a little too much to handle. In my opinion (whatever little that's worth), omitting the left rail cut is one of those decisions that I think is perfectly acceptable for general M40 clone building. If you want to make the most historically accurate M40 clone possible, then you'll want to do this cut. For most clone builds, the left rail cut isn't a necessity and it's something that a very knowledgeable person would have to really look at to see if the cut is there or not, so it's not something that will blatantly stand out.
If you guys have ever seen clone threads on other forums, people can get pretty bitchy about what's clone correct and for them there's only one way to do things. I think @capthook's post is a good topic for discussion, because our community recognizes the fact that there's leniency in the different levels of clone building and that you can still build an absolutely amazing M40 clone while mitigating cost and risks.
Appreciate you. This is the first machining that I've done on a Remington 700 (and it was on a 6 digit receiver). I am fortunate to have an Uncle that has a lathe and milling machine. I was initially scared to do this cut but he was there supervising and it turned out Ok. I used the measurements that Raven provided in another post and used this photo as a reference.
I really didn't want to risk the other cuts...All in all, I'm really happy with the way it's turning out. Hopefully it'll shoot...
I can't thank Raven, Toki and you enough. Thanks again.
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Just passing this on. I have no stake here.
For anyone looking to go with the Badger M40 repro base and rings, SWFA has a quantity listed, BIN on the auction Bay site. I looked on their website and didn’t see them there. I called SWFA to confirm that they are actually selling on the bay, since it is a new vendor with only 6 feedback. The woman on the phone said they just started selling there.
I’m not sure if these are dead stock or BO is making them again. In any case, if you’ve been looking for a set, here they are.
Greg
P.S. They’re about $175 shipped, depending on your state tax scenario.
For anyone looking to go with the Badger M40 repro base and rings, SWFA has a quantity listed, BIN on the auction Bay site. I looked on their website and didn’t see them there. I called SWFA to confirm that they are actually selling on the bay, since it is a new vendor with only 6 feedback. The woman on the phone said they just started selling there.
I’m not sure if these are dead stock or BO is making them again. In any case, if you’ve been looking for a set, here they are.
Greg
P.S. They’re about $175 shipped, depending on your state tax scenario.
Found the link. I've got nothing going on with this or pushing it or anything like that. I'm just curious.
I'm going to message them for more/better pic's. Rings don't look welded and there is no pic of the bottom side of the base so.....?
I'm going to message them for more/better pic's. Rings don't look welded and there is no pic of the bottom side of the base so.....?
Badger Ordnance Replica M40 Redfield Style Base & Rings | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Badger Ordnance Replica M40 Redfield Style Base & Rings at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
They have no add’l pics. Said everything is boxed up and sealed in packages and can’t open them. They said the rings are not welded at all. No bottom pic’s of how the mount looks as I did specifically ask for that. So basically standard Redfield rings and base is what I get out of it.
Correct Frank.
And will only fit “Letter Prefix” serial number actions.
It would be more correct if you are building an M40
Not at all correct for an M40a1, but it would look better
And will only fit “Letter Prefix” serial number actions.
It would be more correct if you are building an M40
Not at all correct for an M40a1, but it would look better
I bought this on eBay a while back from a private seller. Sounds like this is what they have. The ad does reference the BO
Part #.
I can’t see any markings. I would say it’s black, maybe parkerized or whatever. The corners are square. The overall finish is smooth with no visible grain or machining marks. I guess you could replace the Allen screws with slotted if that matters, but it doesn’t have the blued appearance of the Redfields. My layman’s opinion is that it’s very well made and finished. It could serve a clone builder’s purpose, depending on his intent and what donor receiver is used.
Greg
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Im glad I found this thread. Very well written and a wealth of information and knowledge here for newbies wanting to build a clone M40.
Thanks for sharing this information.
Thanks for sharing this information.
I recently purchased an m40 from the CMP. It seems to have started this life in an unknown service probably the Air Force and then later transferred to the army. The army base is transferred to was the JFK training facility for the special forces. From there I understand once I got the freedom of information act back, it started out with the MP company and then ended up with two other organizations at fort Bragg I would like to find out some more information from anyone who was stationed there. I'm also including some pictures of the rifle, and two pictures of inside the chamber I do believe that is McMillan barrels if someone can get a better shot let me know or someone knows about McMillan barrels.
Special thanks to Ryan for the information and the call back Great info.
Special thanks to Ryan for the information and the call back Great info.
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It was great talking to you, I really appreciate the wonderful conversation! The McMillan marked barrel is something completely new to M40 collecting and cloning, that has never seen by any of us historians/collectors/cloners before! I just checked my CMP M40's and unfortunately none of mine have an awesome McMillan marked barrel. Barrel companies stamp the barrel's information on the end of the barrel because the ends are supposed to be cut off.
When making a barrel blank, there's usually some runout at each end, so a short piece of both ends are typically discarded so that the heart of the blank can be used for the finished barrel. Since the McMillan stamp can still be seen, that means the gunsmith who built the rifle didn't remove anything from the rear part of the barrel blank. This probably isn't a big deal, even if there was some runout because the chamber reamer cuts out the bore at the rear portion of the barrel. @Frank Green will have to tell us more about this stuff, since he's our resident barrel expert! Thanks in advance, Frank!
It's extremely rare nowadays to find a new piece of information about anything in the M40 series of sniper rifles, so you have done something that very few of us have ever done! You just provided us with unique information that none of us have ever seen before, so thank you very much for posting the information and photo evidence! Your find is pretty significant, and it opens up a whole new area of studying/collecting/building M40's. Congratulations again on the epic CMP M40 rifle, you scored one that's extremely unique and amazing!!!
Hey Ryan! Yes that is a great find/grab that he got.
It would be interesting for him to measure the finish length of the barrel and put a caliper on the breech diameter and muzzle diameter to see what it comes out at and post the info.
So just everyone is tracking and at least with us... the runout isn't I'd to o.d. When we make a customer a barrel blank we typically leave an extra 1" on the blank length and it's on the muzzle end so it can be cut off and muzzle crowned and brought to the finish length. If there is any bell mouthing to the bore of the barrel it will be on the ends (I think this is what Ryan is referring to as runout). If there is any bell mouthing it will typically be in about a 1/2" or so of the ends. This is from the tooling going in and out of the barrel when the barrel is going thru the manufacturing process.
On a centerfire barrel blank you don't need to cut anything off. The centerfire chambers are so long that if there is any runout/bell mouthing the chambering process will remove it and you will get into clean rifling. So on the breech end all you have to do is take a clean up cut to get the stamping off.
On a rimfire barrel that we make... because the chamber is about only a .5" long... we will add +1" to the breech end for the gunsmith to cut off before threading and chamber work is done so this guarantees you get into clean rifling.
I have seen gunsmiths installing our barrels not take anything off the breech end and you see remnants of stampings still on there.
Any questions let me know.
Later, Frank
Nice score!
If you could when you get a chance... take a tape measure and measure the finish length of the barrel.... and....
take a caliper and measure the breech diameter and the muzzle diameter for us.
It would be interesting to see what the dimensions come in at as the barrels seem to vary quite a bit and it would be again a good reference for us all.
I measured a Atkinson barrel Ryan sent me and I've got an original take off M40A1 barrel from the Lands in my possession that I've measured and posted the info on this forum.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Thanks for the pic’s and measurements!
So everyone can see… even though there was a drawing/contour spec with tolerances… the barrels dimensions that I’m seeing are really all over the place.
His barrels breech diameter is 1.2” but the other two originals measured under that.
Same for the muzzle diameter. His barrel measures .757”. The drawing calls out .875” +.050”/-.030”. His is really under those dimensions/tolerances.
So just because you buy a M40a1 rifle and someone says the barrel isn’t original because of the contour doesn’t match the print…doesn’t mean that the barrel isn’t an original M40a1 barrel. Seems it comes down to who the manufacture of the barrels where at a given time and what the USMC accepted and or how it was fit up to the gun.
I even witnessed a 28” or 29” blank being fit up to a rifle and how the 2112 was doing the work did effect what the muzzle diameter was going to be in how much / where he cut it off as well when doing the muzzle crown work.
We’ve also made / quoted barrels and where given dimensions over the phone or email and never given a print. Makes you wonder if someone on the other end was changing what they wanted vs what a drawing shown.
Another thing to take into consideration is that @[email protected]'s CMP Army M40 isn't an actual M40A1. The M40A1's are a very specific USMC rifle that was built by 2112 armorers at the RTE/PWS shop. The CMP Army M40's with the McMillan smear stocks aren't M40A1's. They weren't USMC rifles, they weren't built by 2112 armorers, and they have different specifications when compared to actual USMC M40A1's (as can be seen in the barrel measurement photos in the previous posts). The CMP Army M40's can be compared to USMC M40A1's, but please keep in mind that they are completely different rifles. Just because it has a CMP HTG stock doesn't mean that they are the same type of rifle. So, that will easily explain the differences between the barrels on these Army M40's and the USMC M40A1's.
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The original USMC M40 barrels are made in the Remington varmint special profile. Remington had exact specifications for these M40 barrels, and they were the only manufacturer/builder for the original USMC M40's. So the 1966 Vietnam War era USMC M40 barrel contour weren't "more consistent," all of these barrels were literally the exact same (except for some markings).
If Gunny was here, and at the range, he would sign that "BFD"
Great work!
I used to shoot those old Remington 700 BDL Varmint Specials, In various calibers, back in the late sixties til the eighties.
Those factory Remington hammer forged barrels were quite accurate, for me.
Shot a very tiny group at the rifle club, with a .222 Rem Varmint, but not in competition, like a world record, but it didn't count.
Beat the Navy sniper team with one in competition, 3-9X scope, before I quit club competition, ...forever, and went to LR varmint shooting.
Those hammer forged Rem factory varmint barrels were pretty good. One could easily hit the head/ chest vital zone from 800 to 1000 yds, with one. These were walnut stocks just like the 40X.
I later used the HS Precision stocks, and have data on round count and accuracy, from old notes.
Factory 308 Rem 700 26" police sniper special...7000 rds on barrel, 100 yd check for accuracy 3 shot groups, .364", .187", .105" & .303" for an average of .239"
1000yds 3 into 3.75".
6900 rds at 1000 yds 3 into 2.422"
5000rds 3 into 1.708" and 5 into 6.140".
Killed a quail 1st shot at 1002 yds that flew in behind the target, as I was letting the barrel cool after a 25 shot string. All factory except a Jewel trigger, and an up graded Leupold 3-10X Mark 4 M3 USMC 3/4 Mil Dot with 20 MOA Badger Ordance steel bases and rings....with good eyesight back in the day this was good for 1400yds.
Put it all together, USMC sniper manual, Precision Shooting Magazine, the Varmint Hunters Club, and came up with my own system, for LR shooting with these old Rem 700 Varmint rifles.
Back in the day 3 shot group, cold bore first shot, no scope power higher than 10X,
rifle Remington 700 Varmint 308 Win, that was the killing combo.
Funny, today it's all changed, speciality cartridges, high power scopes, fast twist precision barrels, more precise high BC match bullets, and tons of electronic gagets.
But when ya "own" an area, especially inside 1000yds none of that's needed... As an enemy, you'd be dead before you could read the information on your Kestrel...old school.
Those factory Remington hammer forged barrels were quite accurate, for me.
Shot a very tiny group at the rifle club, with a .222 Rem Varmint, but not in competition, like a world record, but it didn't count.
Beat the Navy sniper team with one in competition, 3-9X scope, before I quit club competition, ...forever, and went to LR varmint shooting.
Those hammer forged Rem factory varmint barrels were pretty good. One could easily hit the head/ chest vital zone from 800 to 1000 yds, with one. These were walnut stocks just like the 40X.
I later used the HS Precision stocks, and have data on round count and accuracy, from old notes.
Factory 308 Rem 700 26" police sniper special...7000 rds on barrel, 100 yd check for accuracy 3 shot groups, .364", .187", .105" & .303" for an average of .239"
1000yds 3 into 3.75".
6900 rds at 1000 yds 3 into 2.422"
5000rds 3 into 1.708" and 5 into 6.140".
Killed a quail 1st shot at 1002 yds that flew in behind the target, as I was letting the barrel cool after a 25 shot string. All factory except a Jewel trigger, and an up graded Leupold 3-10X Mark 4 M3 USMC 3/4 Mil Dot with 20 MOA Badger Ordance steel bases and rings....with good eyesight back in the day this was good for 1400yds.
Put it all together, USMC sniper manual, Precision Shooting Magazine, the Varmint Hunters Club, and came up with my own system, for LR shooting with these old Rem 700 Varmint rifles.
Back in the day 3 shot group, cold bore first shot, no scope power higher than 10X,
rifle Remington 700 Varmint 308 Win, that was the killing combo.
Funny, today it's all changed, speciality cartridges, high power scopes, fast twist precision barrels, more precise high BC match bullets, and tons of electronic gagets.
But when ya "own" an area, especially inside 1000yds none of that's needed... As an enemy, you'd be dead before you could read the information on your Kestrel...old school.
I to have shot a couple of older Remington Varmint Rifles,,, very accurate rifles…. I put some fur in the truck with those…. All good times!!!
️Just an update...Haven't had a chance to shoot it...
Still has the PTG bottom metal and a Timney Trigger...Other than that, I'm close to done...
Still has the PTG bottom metal and a Timney Trigger...Other than that, I'm close to done...
@capthook
Looks great! There’s just something about that M40 look. A clone either has it or it doesn’t. Yours definitely has it.
They were built for a purpose and just happened to be pleasing to the eye. The M40’s layout may fit the Divine Ratio. A mathematical formula that shows up in nature, art, and design. Like a ‘32 Ford, the scale, balance and proportions are just right.
Anyway, great build. I’m jumpstarted to get moving on one of mine.
Greg
Looks great! There’s just something about that M40 look. A clone either has it or it doesn’t. Yours definitely has it.
They were built for a purpose and just happened to be pleasing to the eye. The M40’s layout may fit the Divine Ratio. A mathematical formula that shows up in nature, art, and design. Like a ‘32 Ford, the scale, balance and proportions are just right.
Anyway, great build. I’m jumpstarted to get moving on one of mine.
Greg
Question about the aluminum buttplates. I picked up a wooden PSS stock for my build, and I’m trying to finding an aluminum buttplate for it. They all seem to be a little too short (around 5”), but my stock measures 5 5/32”.
Am i SOL with this stock? Width wise it’s no issue.
Am i SOL with this stock? Width wise it’s no issue.
I converted a PSS stock a few years ago, I just had to do some sanding on the butt so the buttplate would fit and of course recontoured the tip of the forearm.
DW
@JTM20, deltawhiskey beat me to it. I have a beever156 M40 stock. My old time gunsmith told me to attach the buttplate in the best position, then work the stock down to it. I suspect this is how Remington did it, as evidenced by bare aluminum on all those original buttplates. This also helps keep the mating crisp and prevents any rounding of the wood as you sand. We just need to be careful not to sand off anymore aluminum while we work.
I recall reading that for the original M40’s, Remington did this, then took off the buttplates for anodizing so they were fully blackened. (I probably read it in a USMCSGT0331 post somewhere.)
As they say, “This is a way, not the only way.”
Greg
I recall reading that for the original M40’s, Remington did this, then took off the buttplates for anodizing so they were fully blackened. (I probably read it in a USMCSGT0331 post somewhere.)
As they say, “This is a way, not the only way.”
Greg
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