Rifle Scopes USO or Premier

#5
Re: USO or Premier

I suugest from all the questions you have been asking lately to get a good scope, like maybe a used NSX, load up some ammo and start shooting more. Go to a school like Rifles Only and have Jacob Lindy Frank teach you how to use the scope, and sort out your equipment, F-class is also a way to learn wind reading skills, wind holds, come ups at known distances, spending 3k on scope is not required, learning how to use the scope is.
 
#6
Re: USO or Premier

I think you are going to start a shit storm but, USO'S are not on the same playing field as the others. From there quality to there outstanding customer servive. USO's are the Bentley's of the scope world. Now only if Bentley started building tanks we would have a closer compairson.

Now all must remember this is my opinion.

 
#7
Re: USO or Premier

I've never used the illumination feature in any of my scopes. What about PR's illumination is better?

PR looks to be a killer scope, I handled one for a few minutes, but not had enough time behind it to say any feature on it's better or worse (except for the ST knobs on PR, they suck).

I was leaning heavily toward trying a PR out this go around, but stuck with USO. In my case, it was options/reticle that kept me with USO. I can't say which glass is "clearer", but I can see what I need to out to 1k with my USO's, so I don't feel the need to chase the best glass.

I still want to try a PR out one day, there's a lot I like about their scopes, but it's hard to deviate from something that's working for me now.
 
#8
Re: USO or Premier

On the illumination topics

The PR illumination has to be pulled out and dialed on through the whole power range to get to full illumination. The knob only rotates one way.

The USO illum can be "pre-set", then put on 1/2 a "click" and turn the illum off. That way you only have to click it to turn it back on at whatever setting you desire. You can also start at 11 or 1 as far as brightness goes, the knob rotates either way.

Cheers,

Doc
 
#9
Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The PR illumination has to be pulled out and dialed on through the whole power range to get to full illumination. The knob only rotates one way.</div></div>

Doc,

for certain customers it is vital to make sure that the illumination stays OFF unless a concious decision is made to use it, that's why it is pushed in when not in use.
The Premier has off settings between the 11 brightness settings that allow the illumination to be switched off temporarily with the ability to immediately return to to the pre-chosen brightness setting. Starting from the lowest setting and dialing up when you switch on the illumination prevents the user from accidentally activating a too high brigntess setting that may temporarily impair his vision under marginal light conditions.
Forward light signature is another reason to prevent accidental activation of the illumination and use the lowest possible illumination setting.

Of course none of this really matters for casual use at the range.
 
#10
Re: USO or Premier

USO. Hand made with pride in the good ol' US of A. That alone is worth a lot to me. Customer service is second to none and they are built like tanks. EREK Knob with 1/2 MOA clicks is the best thing since sliced bread if you ask me. Get it made exactly how you want it. Do S&B and Premier have better glass? Maybe, but I can't tell the difference. Like JRose said above, Seeing what I'm shooting at is no trouble through any of the USO's I have/had.
 
#11
Re: USO or Premier

Hello David,

Yes you are correct and I agree with that train of though also regarding a concious decision to engage the illumination as we both know it can be seen from the "front" as well as affect night vision.

I was unaware that Premier had gone to intermittant settings on the illum knob. The scopes you showed me at Ft. Bragg did not have that option IIRC, I believe we discussed it there. Have the knobs changed?

Cheers,

Doc
 
#12
Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've never used the illumination feature in any of my scopes. </div></div>

I hear you say that everytime illuminated reticles are asked about. I think for your applications it is obviously not a consideration.

I've had a couple occasions that have made me realize its foolish to not get an illuminated reticle if you are already spending the $2K+ for a custom or top of the line scope.

Better to have and not need than need and not have......

-not trying to be contrary Jason, I hope you don;t take any offense.
 
#14
Re: USO or Premier

I was recently at the Findlay Cup (aka the Jim the plumber match)in Wenatchee WA and they had a night fire stage. I do not have an illuminated recticle and even though I could just barely make out the target I could see enough to get my recticle on there. If you dont have night viz on your rifle and your planning on seriously employing your rifle I would deinatly go with the illuminated recticle
 
#16
Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Erud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">USO. Hand made with pride in the good ol' US of A. That alone is worth a lot to me. ..... </div></div>

Are Premier's not made in the US?
 
#17
Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Erud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">USO. Hand made with pride in the good ol' US of A. That alone is worth a lot to me. </div></div>

Are you sure USO does not subcontract parts outside the USA?

Premier are also partly made and assembled in the USA.

 
#19
Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Erud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">USO. Hand made with pride in the good ol' US of A. That alone is worth a lot to me. </div></div>

Are you sure USO does not subcontract parts outside the USA?

</div></div>

No they do not.
 
#20
Re: USO or Premier

Are the USO lenses ground and coated locally? If so, by whom? If by USO, I can see why they do it themselves to control the quality, and maybe at the expense of the completed product cycle time at times due to the grinding and coating process. How about the raw glass?

Not challenging the made in good 'ole US of A, but more of a curiosity.

I have a MST-100 and definitely inmpressed with the optics.
 
#22
Re: USO or Premier

+1 what M.45 said. We've seen it with our own eyes. Only things they sub out are anodizing, certain scope coatings, and Horus reticles. Don't know about Horus reticles but the anodizing and coatings are still done in the US, if not in California.

USO has capability to ground glass in house, shown also in the USO visit thread posted like a month ago. Don't know if they coat the glass themselves but if they don't, it is not financially logical to send them overseas somewhere to do it, unless the batch is huge. Chances are the glass coating Co. is either in Cali or in another state. I don't ask John about specifics like that regarding his business.

USO made in USA.

Will have to verify the toughness of rheostat after I go through some rounds. So far the illumination is plenty bright and works just fine.
 
#25
Re: USO or Premier

For the record:

USO does everything that is possible in house. The obvious exceptions being the creation of raw materials and the fabrication of things that are an industry unto themselves. Much the same as any other company that builds things. You order the materials you need to complete what it is you build.

For instance all the scope bodies and parts are mfg'd in house on CNC machines from large sections of aluminum tubing and billet. USO doesn't make the Aluminum. The Aluminum is purchased from a manufacturer/distributor that can provide the quality and consistency required by USO for the creation of it's parts. Everything that can be made there IS made there. Nothing comes assembled except what was sent out for annodizing and all that needs to be put together after it comes back.

In regards to time lines and such. If your standard low limit for XYZ component is ###. When you reach that level you order more. The Distributor goes, "Not a problem". 2 weeks later the stuff shows up but is not the correct grade or material or there are other defects. Now you are at 0 weeks because you have been using your stock to maintain production. The distributor now says "Ummm we don't have any more of XYZ but it'll be here in 3 weeks." Now you are 5 weeks behind at best. Do that more than once in a similar time frame and you get waaaaaayyyyy behind real quick. USO makes as much in house as possible to avoid issues just like that.

Just food for the pit.

Cheers,

Doc
 
#26
Re: USO or Premier

We have the capabilities of generating, grinding, polishing, OD grinding and centering, but we do not have coating capabilities here. We can make all the prototype lenses here, but without about $5MIL in Loh machines,I couldn't do our production lenses in house.

We use 5 different companies around the US for the production lenses. Most of the objectives are made to the 58mm diameter, then we OD grind depending on what size you order.

We don't put all of our eggs in one basket so that not one subcontractor can put together a complete optical system, this keeps our designs in check just in case a competitor decides to buy the sub's business.
John III
 
#27
Re: USO or Premier

USO gets on here a lot to clarify things, why not now?

And this question has been asked before.

I am guessing the raw glass is Russian, Japanese, or German, NOT made in USA.

And I would like to know where the glass is ground and coated.

It won't reflect poorly on USO as I'm doubting Premier sources USA glass either -- probably German.

Many of us are just curious.
 
#28
Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cartman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

And I would like to know where the glass is ground and coated.

Many of us are just curious. </div></div>

So would our competetors
wink.gif


FWIW in the optics industry glass and it's coatings are THE closest guarded secret of all. That goes from the glass makers to the coaters and to the distributors. You specify the quality of glass and stop asking questions. I work for USO and not only don't I know where the glass comes from I don't want to know, nor do I need to know to do my job.

Cheers,

Doc
 
#30
Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cartman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

And I would like to know where the glass is ground and coated.

Many of us are just curious. </div></div>


This is like asking Ferrari what the exact combination of color pigments is to achieve their signature Ferrari red... I am curious of that also...
 
#33
Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoCalPete</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cartman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

And I would like to know where the glass is ground and coated.

Many of us are just curious. </div></div>


This is like asking Ferrari what the exact combination of color pigments is to achieve their signature Ferrari red... I am curious of that also... </div></div>

No it isn't. That' being silly -- and no grown man should be silly. A comparable, but equally ridiculous, analogy would be to say that is like Ferrari revealing the country of origin of its engines.

Many of us are simply asking country of origin.

And no, I'm not buying that this is some sort of state secret. I completely understand that a company may not anyone to know because of marketing reasons, and that's their prerogative. But not to hide something like country of origin from competitors.

I am very familiar with telescope optics that cost many, many times what the best USO, S&B, or Premier, scope costs and there is no similar secrecy surrounding the origins of the glass.

Again, I understand if they don't want their American buyers to learn, for example, they use Russian glass -- if they did, and I'm not saying they do -- and if they think it is in their interest to keep that under wraps that's fine and I understand. And I concede I may be wrong about protecting trade secrets from their competitors, it is just my opinion, based on my experience, that that is probably not the case.
 
#34
Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats like asking if you like Tits or Ass. They both rock and you have to decide.


Even if you end up ordering the one you like least, you will love it. </div></div>

I think this puts it as good as I've seen here. This is my kind of thread. Two American companies duking it out for tactical optical dominance.

I love both companies. Neither company is perfect.

But, we are currently an authorized dealer for only one of them.

Scott
 
#36
Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cartman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

No it isn't. That' being silly -- and no grown man should be silly. A comparable, but equally ridiculous, analogy would be to say that is like Ferrari revealing the country of origin of its engines.

Many of us are simply asking country of origin.

</div></div>


Ferrari revealed the country of origin of its engines in Discovery Channels' "Mega Factories" show or something like that, and that country is Italy, in their own factory where the parts are sand-casted, machined, and eventually assembled... Don't remember if the aluminum ingots they cast the parts with came from Italy, but if it came from anywhere but Italy, can we tell Ferrari to say their cars are not made in Italy? The color pigment combo, rust proofing bath and exact paint thickness applied to the car being a closely guarded secret did also come up in the show, but can we tell Ferrari that we don't buy that "trade secret" stuff, and that it should be revealed to the public regardless their reasoning for guarding it?

To be fair, I think a separate thread should be started if truly there are so many people wanting to find out the origin of glass used, not only from USO but all other brands. Chances are, most if not all companies would not divulge that info. The companies that do divulge that info you may not like what you see (Leupold). My opinion is most people would rather be out at the range enjoying their S&B, Premier, Hensoldt, NF, USO, etc.

USO or Premier? For me I would eventually like to have both for my own comparison and use, but for now I am perfectly happy with my USO SN3.
 
#38
Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><---- die hard USO loyalist. If it's my money paying, it's US Optics no matter how much raman has to be digested </div></div>

You gotta mix in some rice and beans in there... Too much preservatives in Raman...
laugh.gif
 
#40
Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

But, we are currently an authorized dealer for only one of them.

Scott </div></div>

I can fix that
laugh.gif


Cheers,

Doc
 
#41
Re: USO or Premier

FWIW USO and Premier aren't duking it out. I have, and I know John does too, the greatest respect for Premier. We are competetors in the Tactical optics market but there are some realy great guys there. I realy try to avoid getting into "Who's best" threads simply because of that respect.

If I feel there is a technical point that I can make I may do so to clarify a difference between USO and another company. If I am wrong I will happily be corrected and do not make my comments maliciously. I will never knowingly speak badly of another optics company (regardless of who they are) it goes against my ethos and I won't be party to it. I've even been known to recommend another company when someone was looking for something we don't have.

Cheers,

Doc
 
#42
Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW USO and Premier aren't duking it out. I have, and I know John does too, the greatest respect for Premier. We are competetors in the Tactical optics market but there are some realy great guys there. I realy try to avoid getting into "Who's best" threads simply because of that respect.

If I feel there is a technical point that I can make I may do so to clarify a difference between USO and another company. If I am wrong I will happily be corrected and do not make my comments maliciously. I will never knowingly speak badly of another optics company (regardless of who they are) it goes against my ethos and I won't be party to it. I've even been known to recommend another company when someone was looking for something we don't have.

Cheers,

Doc </div></div>

Doc, (which is my nickname from those in my inner circle BTW), the "duking it out" is not between the companies but in the eyes of the public. Hell the MTC knob used in the Heritage is a USO licensed technology and it says so right on the knob.

It's like Ford vs. Chevy, and not Chevy vs Mercedes or BMW or Audi. I think it's healthy and desirable. Especially here on the Hide, which is as red, white, and blue as it gets. I've ALWAYS made it clear I wish both companies to succeed wildly. Both companies are stepping up to be world class optic manufacturers.

People here have read me for years now and know I want what's best for their $$ and their needs. I'm not stirring the pot, just giving my approval of it.

Scott
 
#43
Re: USO or Premier

I have a USO SN3 that I totally love. It truely does take a good beating. I've dropped it, dragged it, and I banged it up. It keeps on going like the energizer bunny. However, I have been keeping an eye on the new Premier that is supposed to be released soon. If it's built like a tank like USO, I might end up with a new Premier. I need to wait it out, and see how the Premiers are holding up. Only time will tell.
 
#44
Re: USO or Premier

I hear you Scott. I just didn't want a gentelmanly discussion of the finer differences to get taken out of context and spin out of control like some of the other mfg spats that have occured here and there. No offense meant.

Cheers,

Doc
 
#45
Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

But, we are currently an authorized dealer for only one of them.

Scott </div></div>

I can fix that
laugh.gif


Cheers,

Doc </div></div>

Liberty and US seem like a natural fit. I'll talk to you guys at SHOT 2010 for some serious negotiations.

Scott
 
#46
Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

But, we are currently an authorized dealer for only one of them.

Scott </div></div>

I can fix that
laugh.gif


Cheers,

Doc </div></div>

Liberty and US seem like a natural fit. I'll talk to you guys at SHOT 2010 for some serious negotiations.

Scott </div></div>


why wait? I'm thinking my next optics may be a SN4. it'd be nice to get it through Liberty Optics.
 
#47
Re: USO or Premier

Ive had both USO and Premier. This is MY OPINION, but the Premier's glass is definitely brighter. To me, it was an obvious difference. I love the Gen II XR reticle and believe its one of the best reticles for those who want a MIL scale reticle and need the ability to do quick holdover shooting. On the other hand, the elevation knob on the USO (Erek) was better. I liked the way you could have all the elevation adjusted to each rifle's zero. That elevation setup is just perfect. Thing is, the double turn Premier isnt bad at all. There seems to be a difference in brightness when you go from a USO Ergo to a TPAL. Premier's setup is more like the TPAL but lacks markings for parallax adjustment. Premier's customer service is pretty much every bit as good as USO's. You're buying American from both, but in the end, I personally preferred Premier. For what its worth, Im putting a 5-25x56 on my next rifle.
 
#49
Re: USO or Premier

I seem to remember from another thread that the perceived "brightness", or light transmission of a scope is a function of the objective size divided by the magnification, which in turn gives you the exit pupil size (http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1169386#Post1169386). A person can use 5-7mm of exit pupil size. If this is the case:

USO SN3 3.8-22x44mm vs. PH 3-15x50mm = USO with 2.93mm exit pupil at 15x VS. PH with 3.33mm exit pupil at 15x, so the Premier will be brighter by virtue of larger exit pupil size.

Given this, I would love to get a hold of a USO 5-25x58mm and compare it to the PH 5-25x56mm at 25x...
laugh.gif


Scott? Doc? I volunteer to review it free of charge!
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
 
#50
Re: USO or Premier

I just added a PH 3-15x50 to the stable and it is really clear, granted it is a little bigger, but as was said, you can't go wrong with either. The PH was being sold at a deep discount so...
 
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