Rifle Scopes USO or S&B

F

Fjr86

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 20, 2011
38
0
PA, USA
#1
Looking to get a USO SN-3 or S&B PMII.

With the options I would pick for the USO, it comes out to about the same as S&B PMII.

Would I be served well with either or or should I go with one or the other?

Looking for something with accurate/consistant tracking and durability.

Warranty would be a huge plus as well.

I have heard that USO have had some QC issues. have these issues been resolved?
 
#3
Re: USO or S&B

S&B.

I owned a USO and was disappointed in the glass, the vague windage knob and the slight amount of lash in the magnification and parallax knobs. It wasn't a bad scope, but was not up to par with NF or S&B.
 
#6
Re: USO or S&B

I've had both but traded the USO for a PH. I also still have a SB. Nothing against USO, I'm sure I'd get another one day.

Buy which ever one you think you'll like more, if you don't like it then trade/sell it for the other.
 
#7
Re: USO or S&B

Get the S&B. I have owned 5 USOs and they don't compare to the S&Bs. You want accurate consistent tracking then go S&B.

S&B has a US Service Center which has recently moved from NH down to VA. They not only service scopes there but build them and they also have the contract for the USMC servicing of their scopes.

Do yourself a favor and buy right the first time.
 
#8
Re: USO or S&B

Easy decision, S&B.

I bought and returned a defective USO SN 3 last month. There was a vibrating filament appearing defect in the 7 o'clock position. The thick reticle bars in the periphery appeared to have different shading. The scope housing had several scratches. It appeared used and abused before I even touched it. For $2k+, no thanks.
 
#10
Re: USO or S&B

I'm a USO fan myself, own a SN-3 have no problems with it at all. I've never used a S&B, but it's well known that they are the standard to what other optics of this quality are judged against. I've never really seen any complaints on S&B. Then again i have none with my USO and if i ever needed anything the crew at USO is more than willing to help out. Really depends on how bad you want "your features" on the USO over the S&B. Can't go wrong with either. From what i read Glass quality of S&B is over USO so if clarity is a major issue that might something to think about also.

Really up to you.
 
#11
Re: USO or S&B

I have never owned a S&B either, but I have a USO SN3 T-Pal with another one on the way! My shooting partners are also all running them, top three shooters at our local match were all USO. (The Arizona crew)


A few pics:
227991_2046223839788_1370176248_32411959_7558589_n.jpg


228356_2046227079869_1370176248_32411978_1660951_n.jpg


All of the people I have dealt with from USO have been great to deal with (which can be hard to come by these days!)
 
#12
Re: USO or S&B

I wouldn't say USO is buying wrong the first time by any stretch. The SB has better glass in every one I have looked through but the USO is a well made durable optic with excellent customer support. I run USO on most of my stuff, but when it comes to upper level scopes its 100% subjective in my opinion. They are all very good and up to anything you plan to do with them.
 
#14
Re: USO or S&B

Mr. rob, you said " If you want accurate and consistent tracking go with a S&B.

I have had a USO and it have very accurate and consistent tracking. I also have a S&B that did not have the best tracking. I sent it back and they hooked it up with new internals or whatever they did.

My question to you! What would make the USO unreliable as far as tracking goes?

I have looked through both at short and long range. They are equal as far as clarity and glass goes for shorter range stuff IMO. The S&B takes over the game at distance. At least through my set of eyes. I have two friends standing next to me that thought the USO was a little sharper. To each his own.

One thing that sets USO apart for me is the ability to customize by just giving them a call and DONE!!! its pretty simple. The guys at USO are top notch guys and gals as well. Good guys to deal with.

I have not had any personal contact with the people from S&B so I cannot comment there.

I also like keeping my money in the USA and supporting hard working individuals like USO. Some people don't care about that, and they will send money to a manufacturer over seas. Not me. I like to support the people in my neck of the woods so to speak. Just my .02 cents.

Good luck on your search for a high end optic.
 
#15
Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcvibby</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mr. rob, you said " If you want accurate and consistent tracking go with a S&B.

I have had a USO and it have very accurate and consistent tracking. I also have a S&B that did not have the best tracking. I sent it back and they hooked it up with new internals or whatever they did.

My question to you! What would make the USO unreliable as far as tracking goes?

I have looked through both at short and long range. They are equal as far as clarity and glass goes for shorter range stuff IMO. The S&B takes over the game at distance. At least through my set of eyes. I have two friends standing next to me that thought the USO was a little sharper. To each his own.

One thing that sets USO apart for me is the ability to customize by just giving them a call and DONE!!! its pretty simple. The guys at USO are top notch guys and gals as well. Good guys to deal with.

I have not had any personal contact with the people from S&B so I cannot comment there.

I also like keeping my money in the USA and supporting hard working individuals like USO. Some people don't care about that, and they will send money to a manufacturer over seas. Not me. I like to support the people in my neck of the woods so to speak. Just my .02 cents.

Good luck on your search for a high end optic. </div></div>

well said, I wonder if I can call Schmidt and speak with the owner if I had a question(really doubt that)? I love dealing with the guys @ USO especially Becky, very grateful for all that they've done for me and customers. Keep up the good work!

DSC_0966.jpg
 
#17
Re: USO or S&B

I have both and you'll not be disappointed with either. I will note that my USO has tracked perfectly right out to the limits of it's adjustability, the S&B I have not yet tested but I expect it to be spot on. On the glass issue, honestly it's difficult to tell them apart, one advantage of the 5-25 is that you can dial parallax down to very close ranges, if that is important to you.

The Gap reticle is very usable, @ 3.2x it remains visible and at 17X it does not obscure small targets at long range. There is tunneling present in both scopes but the FOV in the USO is considerably better than the S&B, this despite the x44 vs x56 objectives.

The MSR reticle on the S&B is excellent, I'm not accomplished at reticle ranging but the MSR will make improving that skill far easier than most other designs.

I like the "clicks" on both turrets, the S&B feels stiffer and if forced to choose one over the other I do slightly prefer the Bender in this department.

The AO Parallax of the USO is very forgiving, for ranges out to 500m I often set it around 300 and forget it, the bender has side adjustment which is stunningly accurate in terms of how it corresponds with the markings.

I give the illumination edge to the S&B, there is minor flaring in the USO @ max power. That said my USO illumination knob is capped with is a feature I would have liked on the S&B.

I like the fact that the USO can be mounted lower due to the Obj being 44 but in low light testing the S&B's 56 obj does remain brighter as light fades.

Overall they are both fantastic scopes, depending on your intended use they both have pro's and cons but to my mind there is no wrong decision.

I've never had to use USO CS for any repairs but in some correspondence with the guys @ USO I've fond them to be exceptional.

I'm replacing my USO with a Premier Light Tactical simply because the weight of that particular rifle is a consideration.

Good luck with your decision.
Rath
 
#19
Re: USO or S&B

JC and Lazy, I had 5 USO SN-3s. 4 didn't track even after sending 2 of them back to be fixed. I don't have faith in them. I have heard they were better now, as this was a few years ago, I don't feel like spending my hard earned money to find out. Of the close to 8 S&Bs I have had over the years they all tracked perfectly. That's what makes me say the comment I made from multiple uses of both products. Not a guy who has one scope and thinks it's great.

JC I know you're a lefty from your recent posts and the illum knob doesn't work for you and if you want to go USO then I wish you all the best with the decision. Putting the illum knob a different spot is about the only thing i see that needs to be customized in the S&B. It already has a great knob in the dual turn which I like alot better than the EREK. S&B has great reticle choices and the scope is set up perfect for my shooting.

Also you can call and speak to someone very easily at S&Bs Service Center. Mark and Phil are there to help anytime you need it. I don't feel the need to speak to Mr Schmidt or Mr Bender as long as any issue is taken care of.

So I am sorry if my posts upsets you but it's my opinion from my expieriences with the products asked about. I am not going to get in a pissing match about it. The OP asked for opinions. I gave him mine as others have given theirs. It's up to him to pick what he wants.

P6300191.jpg
 
#21
Re: USO or S&B

No experience with S.u.B. but my experience w/ USO has been great. I started with a 1.8-10 for my precision AR and went from there. Now own 4 and they all track perfectly and are durable as you can get.

As far as warranty - USO will stand 100% behind their product. One phone call is all you need to get anything fixed. When I bought my second US0, I bought it here on Hide, used. Before buying it, I called Becky and she said, "buy it and then send it in - we will look it over", which is what I did. When they sent it back, it came with a full report on what they did. They cleaned the internals and externals, put in new grease and redid something on the turrets, all on their dime, including S&H. After their work on it, I essentially had a brand new scope.

If only all companies conducted business like USO...
 
#22
Re: USO or S&B

The people at US optics are top notch. Becky is great to deal with along with the others. They do make a great scope. But I sold my US optics and went with S&Bs and still like them over the US optics.
The zero stops are so easy with the S&Bs and the scope works. Now they have a US center. They was going to give me a loaner until mine got done. Top notch. Once you use one hard to go back to another brand of scope.

Truthfully both are great scopes. Like Allstate says "dollar for dollar" your in good hands with both scopes.
 
#23
Re: USO or S&B

I have 3 US Optics and all performed flawlessly.
Best thing as all others have mentioned: 1. customization, and 2. US manufacture.

Being in CA, and live close to their facility, they are not only on the same time zone, but also within driving distance. Great bunch of folks to work with.

Guess where I would go for my 4th scope?
smile.gif
 
#24
Re: USO or S&B

I'm pretty happy with my USO. USO had an all around better package for my rifle I purchased it for. However, if the Bender works for you, the clarity is a little better yet by my eyes.
 
#25
Re: USO or S&B

I owned a USO for about a week, and was honestly unimpressed so I got a Premier instead. I also have extensive experience with the S&B and would recommend the Schmidt to anyone wanting to go high end they are truly wonderful optics.
 
#27
Re: USO or S&B

hmmm. I really like my USO. Had a chance to look thru a couple of S&B's lately, they are fine scopes. I have had zero issues with tracking on my scope (just did a mil test adjusting turrets to confirm for sniperworx.com). I REALLY like the EREK knob. You can grap that thing like you mean it and give it a good twist. Mine is illuminated (although I dont use it) and I went for the green for tacticool points (again, I dont use it). The scope sits nice and low on my gun (have to grind down a normal Butler Creek cap but the USO cap is PERFECT).
Like I said, i got to recently participate in a scope test associated with Sniperworx.com, and found out that after you start spending around $2000 for a scope, the differences are personal subjection (IMHO). There are alot of great scopes out there now.

One thing to remember, only USO has the USO girls!!!!!!

That being said, I'll keep my USO with no buyers remorse!
 
#29
Re: USO or S&B

I went with S&B. USO is fine. Just as fine as S&B. The only real obvious difference between USO and S&B at the time I was looking...weight. S&Bs are, or at least were, lighter. But with just as good or better glass. (S&B PM-II 3-12 MTC GENII Illuminated. USMC scope)

As for service, I can't speak to that specifically. As I have never needed service. But I did call over there once or twice to see about something. I got a woman in the US. She knew her stuff and I was under the impression they had everything under control. What I mean is there wasn't some person on the phone wanting me to speak German and everything is F'ed up.

I do look at the forsale sections a lot. It seems to me that I see a lot of USOs for sale. I suspect this is because they have sold more units in the US. And I suspect they have more options and models every 5 minutes..much like Apple and their stuff.

But the truth, if I was to ever buy another S&B scope, I wouldn't be letting my current one go. Ever. I think that says something. Even considering how small my personal sample represents.


Regards,
Greyson
 
#31
Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Because of the way USO has treated me, and the quality of their products, I'll
be sticking by them. No reason to change. </div></div>

Same here. I have two USO SN-3 rigs and I am looking to get a third.
 
#32
Re: USO or S&B

My wife and I have 5 USO's and they are the only way to go for us. They are great on the phones and in person. S&B makes good scopes also but...wenn Sie Hilfe benötigen oder ein Problem haben, erlernen Sie besser, wie man Deutsches spricht.
 
#34
Re: USO or S&B

FJR86, there were several issues with the USO I had. First the glass was nothing to write home about, the clicks were mushy on the windage, and finally to be quite honest I don't think the EREK knob is really all that great. Sure it looks cool and allows you to move the erector around independent of the knob, but at the same time it allows ghost clicks, which don't move the reticle at the upper end of the knobs adjustment. Personally that just annoyed me, and in comparison to the S&B or Premier double turn knobs and zero stops there is no comparison.
 
#35
Re: USO or S&B

I vote s&b I have owned a few uso's and needless to say for economic reasons I am down to one match rifle and it is wearing a 5-25 s&b msr reticle. At this point I am not really even sure how you would improve much on the scope.
 
#36
Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tim3gun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> S&B makes good scopes also but...wenn Sie Hilfe benötigen oder ein Problem haben, erlernen Sie besser, wie man Deutsches spricht.</div></div>

Actually the US Service Center in Ashburn, VA speaks English very well. Any problems they will handle them but the best part of customer service is not needing it.
 
#37
Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Buy American.</div></div>

You mean like that American made Lapua brass and bullets you run in your 6.5x47L?
wink.gif


Or the American AI rifles and chassis and mags people use? Or those American Sako or Tikka rifles? Or American Benelli shotguns or American Sig, Glock or HK pistols?
 
#38
Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Buy American.</div></div>

You mean like that American made Lapua brass and bullets you run in your 6.5x47L?
wink.gif


Or the American AI rifles and chassis and mags people use? Or those American Sako or Tikka rifles? Or American Benelli shotguns or American Sig, Glock or HK pistols? </div></div>

POW!
 
#39
Re: USO or S&B

And doesn't USO use foreign made glass?

Out of USO or S&B. About the only thing USO has on S&B is the ability to customize the scope. But S&B has enough models out there, that I can find something I like.

Hopefully the S&B 3-20 locker comes out soon!
 
#40
Re: USO or S&B

Here is my .02.

USO could make exactly what I wanted. For less. If I went s&b I would have compromised what I needed.

The other really nice feature about us optics is the extremely wide FOV. And objective adjustment, it you want that.

If s&b made what I wanted I might have gone with them.
 
#41
Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Buy American.</div></div>

You mean like that American made Lapua brass and bullets you run in your 6.5x47L?
wink.gif


Or the American AI rifles and chassis and mags people use? Or those American Sako or Tikka rifles? Or American Benelli shotguns or American Sig, Glock or HK pistols? </div></div>

No! Smartass. I don't have one of those anymore. I run a 7RemMag and use Winchester brass.
 
#42
Re: USO or S&B

Yet, if it were not for Weaver, Redfield, Leupold, Unertl, Lyman, an the like, none of you would have the ability to voice your opinion in English.
 
#43
Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And doesn't USO use foreign made glass?

Out of USO or S&B. About the only thing USO has on S&B is the ability to customize the scope. But S&B has enough models out there, that I can find something I like.

Hopefully the S&B 3-20 locker comes out soon! </div></div>

Schott glass does have facilities in the States I believe.

http://www.us.schott.com/english/index.html
 
#44
Re: USO or S&B

I buy American when I can have quality gear by doing so....the country of origin of most of my gear reflects that. It's not the deciding factor but it makes a difference to me. I wish it did to others because it made us strong once.
 
#45
Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Buy American.</div></div>

You mean like that American made Lapua brass and bullets you run in your 6.5x47L?
wink.gif


Or the American AI rifles and chassis and mags people use? Or those American Sako or Tikka rifles? Or American Benelli shotguns or American Sig, Glock or HK pistols? </div></div>

No! Smartass. I don't have one of those anymore. I run a 7RemMag and use Winchester brass.


</div></div>

LOL It was kind of directed at you Casey but also alot of other people who always yell buy American but only when it seems to come to scopes. They run AI rifles or chassis or have to have Lapua brass. I'm not hypocritical enough to scream buy American at everything. I am actually like ggmanning when it comes to it. I buy American when I can have quality gear by doing so.

Actually I use most everything I shoot with from American companies but my optics. GAP rifles with McMillan or Manners stocks and Rem 700 or Templar actions and Bartlein barrels. New rifle will be Surgeon action, Manners stock and mini chassis, Bartlein barrel and built by GAP. Hornady ammo goes in everything. Look at the companies in my banner. S&B is the only non American company.

Bigwheeler, still a foreign parent company. S&B builds alot of their scopes in the US as well. According to the board it doesn't make them an American company.
 
#46
Re: USO or S&B




"It's not the deciding factor but it makes a difference to me."

I agree with you, Robo, on this. GG has it. We have to be considerate of foreign products though country of manufacture isn't the deciding factor.
 
#47
Re: USO or S&B

Well, I am no scope expert - far from it.

I could have chosen S&B, Premier Reticle or USO but went USO because :

1) I could find the right reticle (Mil-Scale GAP) in the appropriate scope size and weight (S&B and USO are about the same weight but Premier is quite a bit heavier).

2) I really dislike the S&B design of putting the illumination knob on the rear end of the scope - which, in turn forces me to move the scope back on the rifle (Steyr Mannlicher SSG 69, using the 20 MOA integral receiver rails - no Picatinny rails).

In short, S&B scopes have a limited choice of reticles and suffer from a major flaw on the positioning of the illumination knob - as far as I am concerned. USO offers custom-built scopes.

USO wins - that simple.
 
#48
Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carcajou</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In short, S&B scopes have a limited choice of reticles </div></div>

S&B Reticles:
P4F MOA
P4F
P4
Klein
P3 Mildot
H2CMR
MSR
Horus
P1 Bryant

The illumination knob is tough with your set up of not being able to put the rings where ever you want but with a standard picatinny rail it's a non issue. Some lefties have problems with the bolt handle hitting as well. I have been told that a new illumination knob is in the works so S&B does listen.
 
#50
Re: USO or S&B

Just trying to help others out as some might not know how many reticle options S&B has and read someone saying they are limited. Just getting the whole story out there so people know.
 
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