Varget changing weight/volume?

[timelinex]

Last time I reloaded my 308 ammo is around a year ago. My load is 44.8gr of varget in winchester brass. This brass is 2x fired and prepared around a year ago.

I'm 100% positive that is my load and I'm using the same components (including same bottle of varget). I'm also positive that I'm using the correct weight (checked on manual and electronic scale) However today when I tried loading it, something isn't adding up.

The load is filling up the cartridge up into the neck and it is a compressed load. Previously it was always just barely below the neck, and I could always shake the cartridge to hear empty space.

Anyone know what the hecks going on?

 

[rookie101]

what bullet are you using? what's your coal?

 

[oldfatguy]

Powder is a lot higher in the case? You'd have to really be setting the shoulder back to make a noticeable reduction in case volume. Possible but not likely. And you are 100% sure about the load because of keeping good records?

Something has changed, just have to ID what.

OFG

 

[timelinex]

The cases I'm using are the same cases that I fully prepared when I loaded a big batch last time. They are all prepped and even have the primers in there from a year ago. The varget is the only open varget, and its even labeled by date opened. The bullets are the same bullets used before and again are the only 175 smk's open. I'm positive its all the same components. It's not ALOT higher, but going from maybe 95% to 100% capacity.

Coal is around 2.830

 

[BCP]

Could just be that when you pour the powder into the case it needs to settle a bit more.

 

[DirtyRod]

I'd triple check your scale. I use 44.5gr of Varget with 175SMKs and 44.5 comes to the shoulder of a Black Hills case. I only bump it back .003" and Ive never run Winchester brass but it should not make that kind of difference.

I do happen to have some Win brass so I suppose I could go see what it looks like.

 

[jmontgomery]

i would pull the bullet on one of the rounds and double check your charge

 

[timelinex]

I'd triple check your scale. I use 44.5gr of Varget with 175SMKs and 44.5 comes to the shoulder of a Black Hills case. I only bump it back .003" and Ive never run Winchester brass but it should not make that kind of difference.

I do happen to have some Win brass so I suppose I could go see what it looks like.

Winchester brass is known to hold up to 2 more grains than something like LC. Not sure exactly how it compares to black hills brass. I can tell you that this brass has never been full sized, so there was no shoulder bumping. (but again, this is the same as my last loading).

I know temperature/humidy could possible effect weight/volume. Could it effect it this much? If I had to guess, it look like its anywhere from .2 to .5 grains more.

 

[DirtyRod]

Winchester brass is known to hold up to 2 more grains than something like LC. Not sure exactly how it compares to black hills brass. I can tell you that this brass has never been full sized, so there was no shoulder bumping. (but again, this is the same as my last loading).

I know temperature/humidy could possible effect weight/volume. Could it effect it this much? If I had to guess, it look like its anywhere from .2 to .5 grains more.

If Win brass typically has more volume than other brands then 44.8 would fill less of the case than others especially if you are not bumping the shoulder. I'm heading out to finish the .45 I was loading this morning so I'll pop 44.8 in Winchester case and see where it comes.

 

[timjoebobbradley]

how are you filling the cases? If you swirl in a funnel as you pour it compacts or aligns the kernals more, which would have a more compact filling compared to powder that is just dumped straight in.

 

[DirtyRod]

Sorry no Winchester brass but I did have a few pieces of LC so here is a shot of 44.8 in an LC case and it comes to right below the neck. I also had some in the BH case to the right, which has been sized, and it came to right about the same place.

 

[rookie101]

I was going to do that too, but you beat me to it, plus you have pictures.

 

[DirtyRod]

I was going to do that too, but you beat me to it, plus you have pictures.

I had been out in the garage loading .45 this afternoon and was going to hit .308 next so I was already there.

 

[timelinex]

Sorry no Winchester brass but I did have a few pieces of LC so here is a shot of 44.8 in an LC case and it comes to right below the neck. I also had some in the BH case to the right, which has been sized, and it came to right about the same place.

That's basically how mine always was. Right below the neck. So when I seated my bullet, there would still be some air gap. Now it's going just barely into the neck area, which is the difference between what session to be a full load and a compressed load.

 

[Mad_Charlie]

how are you filling the cases? If you swirl in a funnel as you pour it compacts or aligns the kernals more, which would have a more compact filling compared to powder that is just dumped straight in.

YES! First thing I wondered. Thrown charges fill higher. If using stick powder.

 

[timelinex]

YES! First thing I wondered. Thrown charges fill higher. If using stick powder.

I fill it the same way I've always filled it. Pour powder into charge master. Charge master weighs it and I funnel it in

The only difference I can think of is that it's usually around 10% humidity here in AZ, but it's monsoon season so it's been raining all week, so very high humidity. But again, I doubt it would make that big of a difference?

 

[Fatelvis]

Your powder may have dried some, since opened. Now it is lighter. I found this same thing when using powder from 8lb jugs that I don't use often.

 

[timelinex]

Your powder may have dried some, since opened. Now it is lighter. I found this same thing when using powder from 8lb jugs that I don't use often.

Well what does this mean for me then? Do I stick with the same weight or do I have to match the volume, and lower the charge?

I know I can experiment with this by loading a bunch and matching my velocity, but I was hoping to not need to do that extra step.

 

[former naval person]

Competitive bench-resters use volume charges. But, what do I know?

 

[timelinex]

Wow, what an idiot.

I decided to stop after seasting a couple and to just do the rest the next day on a fresh mind. Boy am I glad.


I was doing 48.8 gr instead of 44.8! I KNEW something wasn't adding up, but no matter how much I triple checked everything, it all looked right.

I guess we all fall asleep on the job every once in a while. I'm just glad I knew something was fishy.

The crazy part is that this got past me on both the electronic and old fashion scale.

 

[DirtyRod]

It happens. I've shut things down on more than one occasion when it just wasn't working.