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Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

#51
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

Lowlight,

I've been talking with GEO from Vectronix for a few months. I explained to him the need for a civilian and LE model that would range out to 2500 yards. He sent me a PLRF15C to demo for a few weeks and it will read out to 4000 yards easy. The need for a quality laser to reach out to a realistic shooting distance of 2500 yards (more like 2000) would great for our community. We can shoot just past 2300 here at TVP so that would be great for everyone here. Making them affordable should not be an issue because of the amount they would sell. At a cost of $2K or slightly under they should go like hot cakes. I will be speaking with him today. Have to send the unit back.
 
#52
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

Tom,...the basic PLRF10 does what you ask. The "c " variants have the compass and much more.

Most LEO will never need a 2,000+ yard requirement or for that matter that many civilians!

Its unlikely that Vectronix will jump into a market already well serviced by Leica etc for the majority of sport users.

$2k may be cheaper to you but most mere mortals will find that a heck of a lot of money for a rangefinder thats more than they need.

I think the basic PLRF10 is ideal for those that need it and you certainly get what you pay for.

The PLRF15C is as good as it gets and for high end shooters with your expertise I am certain you will appreciate its functions.
 
#53
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Most LEO will never need a 2,000+ yard requirement or for that matter that many civilians!
</div></div>
This civilian will!
 
#54
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

I know that most of the guys I shoot with and talk with all bemoan the absence of an "affordable" LRF that will cover that 2-2.5K range effectively. The "sport" LRF's will get you to the 1800-1900 yd range fairly reliably, and the PLRF10 will get you a lot further, but the hit to the pocketbook is, uh.. painful. If Vectronix could market something 'tween in both categories, I think Tom is right. They'd sell like hotcakes, at least in this community. How big that market really is... I've no idea.

John
 
#55
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

They are out of the office right now, but they are going to get a hold of me next week.

We use the PLRF 10 ourselves, we were never really hot on the 15 because of the differences between the two, but the PLRF 5 is supposed to bridge the gap, and bring a Vectorinx unit to us under $2k... while still going beyond 2k in ranging.

Once they are back in pocket next wee they said they will schedule a conference call with me and I will get as much sorted out as possible. At the time they showed up at Shot I was, 1. not expecting them, and 2, not in a position to get down to the nitty gritty of the new unit.

But we'll get it sorted...
 
#56
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

Sir,

You are correct about the LE not needing that much performance on average. I'm sorry I did'nt go into much detail there. But alot of our LE snipers that train here at TVP are now training out to 1000 - 1500 yards because they can and want to. Our 600 yard program we are working on for Advance LE Precision Marksmenship will qualify out to 600 yards and will be a tough title to achieve. The difference in 5 yards with a .308 over 300 yards could mean a miss if shooting through and open window ETC or an exposed head "peaking" over cover.
Most shooters/hunters dont need a LRF that goes out to 2K but the more powerful the laser more precise it will be at shorter distance and it will be less likely to fail under certain environmental cicumstances. Build a laser that will go 1500 yard and it peters out at 800 on a good day with sun rain or snow. 2k is very expensive for me too, but if you have $8,000 in a serious long range rig..rifle, scope, suppressor, bipod etc then you need a laser to be able to justify it. Not in all cases but most. It's better to go longer/distance and power than what you think you will need for many reasons. The main reason being you want it to work EVERYTIME you need it too when you need it. And that priceless.
I very much enjoyed demoing the PLRF15C. It's more than most shooters would ever need but has alot more purpose than just range finding for bullet flight. Thats where it comes in handy for other forms of recreation/work.
I have a PLRF10 on the way from Vectronix. As you said, I'm sure it will be more than I need for LRF/shooting out to 2000 yards.
 
#57
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are correct about the LE not needing that much performance on average.</div></div>

A prudent shooter does not train for the average. He or she trains for the most difficult shot they may ever have to make.

And lots of urban PDs have airports in their AOR - and scenarios on those facilities may involve long shots.

It's about being ready.

added: The longest LEO shot I know of was more than 500 yards by a West Virginia state trooper.
 
#58
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

Considering we train and service weapons for NTOA and OTOA and the President of those two organiztions trains here with his Metro Swat team 100- 200 yards is about it. That's why we are designing a specialized school for extened range (600 yards) for the "just in case" shot. Our facillity allows them to train further out and this is why they do. Most who have never been here before have never shot or trained past 100-200 yards. Airports are mostly covered by an FBI agency now so most LE SRT guys wont be there. This is what I learned some time back when I started designing the school. LE and State Police have different rules of engagement so I hear so that explains your example.
As for use for a high end laser, yes..the highly trained LE sniper out to (600) yards is a must...and it MUST work everytime accurately. But at this point in time it's far and few between when a LE sniper will ever make a 500 yard shot. That's why we are trying to change things. Budget cuts don't allow the proper training or weapons let alone a $5000 laser they dont need...yet.
The first ever NTOA/OTOA longrange sniper match was held here at TVP in 2009 and it was an eye opener for everyone who attended. They had a blast and it ignited a new way of thinking and training. Especially when they were not allowed to use lasers to engage targets form 100 - 1000 yards..but most under 600.
The high quality LRF is the one of the keys to precision shooting. Even if your a professional using MILDOTS or a MOA range finding reticle never will you be as accurate as you will be with a quality LRF. That extra edge of accuracy is a must for a LE sniper. This expands his accuracy reach with a higher percentage of a one shot hit..because if he misses things can go bad..quickly. And the price the victim pays for the miss is nowhere near the cost of good equipment that could of ended in an better outcome. We are working on that too.
 
#59
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

Guys,...we too have LEO's that we see daily train at 600yds and beyond. Most dont have access to units like the Vectronix as individual items.

A far more pertinent question is just how far do they typically engage hostiles at and can they perform adequately at those distances?

On researching this question the answer was a surprise,....75yds!

Now I dare say that there are occassions when in other jurisdictions engagement will be significantly further, but pray tell just exactly when will an LEO ever engage at 600-1000 or more yards as the norm?? Even on airports, hard standing areas are allocated for incoming suspect flights so that any potential interdiction is at as short a range as possible.


As to a $2k unit "selling like hotcakes",...really? Just how many do you think will sell 100? 200? Those figures won't stimulate a manufacturer to change its sales pitch and product line alone. Vectronix is a Global player and not US based. It s non military sales are tiny by comparison to its current military and LE market.

If you need the best then take the hit on the wallet and buy the PLRF10.

If you REALLY need to reach out to the horizon,..get a mortgage and acquire the 15C.
 
#60
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

You guys can debate its use by LE, but I will say this to Emouse, it used to be 51 yards and is only 75 yards now because Virginia State Police upped the engagement distance average by hitting at 541 yards. The closest is 11' 1" so you have to understand the numbers.

That is a nation wide average, not a rule of thumb.

I think the PLRF 5 will be a nice upgrade for those using sport optic rangefinders. At least it sounds like it. Especially if the consideration is $1800 versus $3200+
 
#61
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

(I think the PLRF 5 will be a nice upgrade for those using sport optic rangefinders. At least it sounds like it. Especially if the consideration is $1800 versus $3200+)

I would be a buyer for sure!!!
Elmer
 
#62
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

Range isn't the only important characteristic of these handheld LRFs, "beam divergence" is also important. To reduce laser returns from false targets (giving false readings), you want the laser beam to be as small in diameter as possible so it illuminates what you aim it at and little else.

A LRF with shorter range but very small beam divergence may be a better LE tool than one with very long range and a wide beam.
 
#64
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

Something in the sub $2k range would be awesome, as long as it is still basically as powerful as the 10, but just less bells and whistls donwgrade the case, no compas etc. Being able to reliably range 2500 would be awesome. I would be in the market at that price point.

CJG
 
#65
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys can debate its use by LE, but I will say this to Emouse, it used to be 51 yards and is only 75 yards now because Virginia State Police upped the engagement distance average by hitting at 541 yards. The closest is 11' 1" so you have to understand the numbers.

That is a nation wide average, not a rule of thumb.

I think the PLRF 5 will be a nice upgrade for those using sport optic rangefinders. At least it sounds like it. Especially if the consideration is $1800 versus $3200+ </div></div>


Lowlight,...read again. I made no reference to the US at all, only our domestic stats here in the UK.

It is however interesting that a Police Agency could justify engagement at 541yds? Clear and immediate danger? If you have accurate details on that shoot please do post them?
 
#68
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys can debate its use by LE, but I will say this to Emouse, it used to be 51 yards and is only 75 yards now because Virginia State Police upped the engagement distance average by hitting at 541 yards. The closest is 11' 1" so you have to understand the numbers.

That is a nation wide average, not a rule of thumb.

I think the PLRF 5 will be a nice upgrade for those using sport optic rangefinders. At least it sounds like it. Especially if the consideration is $1800 versus $3200+ </div></div>


Lowlight,...read again. I made no reference to the US at all, only our domestic stats here in the UK.

It is however interesting that a Police Agency could justify engagement at 541yds? Clear and immediate danger? If you have accurate details on that shoot please do post them? </div></div>

Emouse, If you want the details contact the American Sniper Association and purchase the most recent Utilization Report which is the 2009 edition.

Concerning a justified 541 yard shot for LE... Well here in the good old USA our use of force is not nearly restricted as you guys across the pond. As a LEO we need to articulate the need to employ deadly force because you believe the threat poses risk of serious bodily harm or death to you or others. This is the benchmark for most LEO snipers.

I am curious. What criteria does a UK sniper need to have to use deadly force?
 
#69
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

Cowboy,..thanks for the heads up on where to find the info.

As regards use of force, the law states it must be proportionate and reasonable.

Put simply all other avenues to resolve the problem must be deemed impossible, ineffective or have been tried.

As regards lethal force all the above and obviously eveidence of an immediate and imminent threat to life or strategic property.

Its a rare occassion indeed that a shot by a Police Officer would be justified at 500+yds! It does beg the question of "imminent threat" and why the agency concerned where so far away?

The full story will be a most interesting read for sure!
 
#70
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cowboy,..thanks for the heads up on where to find the info.

As regards use of force, the law states it must be proportionate and reasonable.

Put simply all other avenues to resolve the problem must be deemed impossible, ineffective or have been tried.

As regards lethal force all the above and obviously eveidence of an immediate and imminent threat to life or strategic property.

Its a rare occassion indeed that a shot by a Police Officer would be justified at 500+yds! It does beg the question of "imminent threat" and why the agency concerned where so far away?

The full story will be a most interesting read for sure!</div></div>

An easy answer for US LE for a distance shot is a fleeing felon that poses risk of serious bodily harm or death to others.

 
#71
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

The criteria for the use of deadly force are the same for the LE defensive marksman as for any other officer. However, the application of force can be unlike that of any other officer.
 
#72
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

Remember, USA is one of the only countries in the world that allows you to own a gun to 'protect yourself'.

In our country we have this thing called common sense. (although not in so much abundance as one would hope...)

That small founding document is the source of most of the US's problems, and explains why they can justify shooting a human being at 500y + with little more reason but may 'pose risk'.

Not saying the US is the worst country in the world, but there are archaic idea's floating round that seem pretty odd to us outsiders, nonetheless, I loved living in Cali, and am likely going to move back in a couple of years.

Chris
 
#74
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crnkin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember, USA is one of the only countries in the world that allows you to own a gun to 'protect yourself'.

In our country we have this thing called common sense. (although not in so much abundance as one would hope...)

That small founding document is the source of most of the US's problems, and explains why they can justify shooting a human being at 500y + with little more reason but may 'pose risk'.

Not saying the US is the worst country in the world, but there are archaic idea's floating round that seem pretty odd to us outsiders, nonetheless, I loved living in Cali, and am likely going to move back in a couple of years.

Chris</div></div>


Well written Chris,...you are probably correct that "stretching" interpretation rather than applying common sense would allow lethal force options to be excecised rather more often than neccessary.

The same applies in any jurisdiction and it is sad when common sense doesn't prevail.

This in no way intended to detract from the validity of the Virginia shooting.
 
#75
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

Over the last 7 yrs an average of 2 fatalities a yr occur as a result of an armed confrontation with the police in the UK and in some of these instances the victim ends his own life.

Pretty low for any country in the world and probably due to tough gun control and good policing. Most instances involved police using 9mm weapons.

Based on this you could argue there is no real need to train with higher calibre weapons at longer ranges but if it prepares the Police to deal with a Mumbai style attack I'm all for it.
 
#76
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crnkin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember, USA is one of the only countries in the world that allows you to own a gun to 'protect yourself'.

In our country we have this thing called common sense. (although not in so much abundance as one would hope...)

That small founding document is the source of most of the US's problems, and explains why they can justify shooting a human being at 500y + with little more reason but may 'pose risk'.

Not saying the US is the worst country in the world, but there are archaic idea's floating round that seem pretty odd to us outsiders, nonetheless, I loved living in Cali, and am likely going to move back in a couple of years.

Chris</div></div>

Chris,

What does it matter if the threat is 50 yards away or 500 yards away in relationship to the shooter if the primary goal is to protect those people in the immediate danger area of the threat?

Apply your common sense to the rule of thumb and you may understand it a little better. That person who is pressing the trigger must articulate why he/she is employing deadly force and it must be justified by meeting specific criteria. Think North Hollywood Shootout. Two gun men firing in all directions with body armor, civilians and LE wounded in the open. Does it matter how far the LE shooter is? Lets say that same North Hollywood scenerio plays out but they have 22 cal single shot pistols and NO LE or civis have been injured. Is that LE sniper still justified to engage the threat regardless of distance? Yes they are because hindsight is not 20/20 and the risk of death or serious bodily harm is still present to those in the area.... Better yet, apply our use of deadly force to one of your own incidents like Aramoana Shooting with David Gray who was thought to have a scoped high powered rifle. Sounds like a good time to have stand off and an easy to understand use of force policy.

Please feel free to explain the common sense NZ way of employing deadly force for the LE sniper.
 
#77
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crnkin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember, USA is one of the only countries in the world that allows you to own a gun to 'protect yourself'.

In our country we have this thing called common sense. (although not in so much abundance as one would hope...)

That small founding document is the source of most of the US's problems, and explains why they can justify shooting a human being at 500y + with little more reason but may 'pose risk'.

Not saying the US is the worst country in the world, but there are archaic idea's floating round that seem pretty odd to us outsiders, nonetheless, I loved living in Cali, and am likely going to move back in a couple of years.

Chris </div></div>


Well when ya come back, don't bring your guns! You don't really need them.

That small document is what sets this country apart from any other place in the universe. It's why people die trying to get into the country. If it's so great where you're at why not just stay there?

over.
 
#78
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crnkin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That small founding document is the source of most of the US's problems, and explains why they can justify shooting a human being at 500y + with little more reason but may 'pose risk'.</div></div>You misunderstand the application of the law here.

The key inquiry is not about distance, it's about whether the use of deadly force was necessary under the circumstances. If, under all the circumstances, the shooter honestly and reasonably believed the life of another was in imminent danger (or someone was under immediate threat of serious bodily harm), and he reasonably and honestly believed that it was necessary to use deadly force to prevent the harm, then why does the distance matter?

But you are correct that our Bill of Rights has been - for some time now - both a limit on the use of authority by Law Enforcement and a source of problems for oppressive goverments throughout the world.
grin.gif


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Over the last 7 yrs an average of 2 fatalities a yr occur as a result of an armed confrontation with the police...Pretty low for any country in the world and probably due to tough gun control and good policing.</div></div>First note that here, and because of our Bill of Rights, 'good' policing and 'effective' policing are vastly different things to us. Second, if you could somehow snap your fingers and take away all guns there would be no 'gun problem'. No argument there. But here gun control often implicates larger questions about <span style="font-style: italic">how</span> we want to live - meaning how the people, collectively, want to be governed. It's a question and an inquiry that many European governments don't entertain from their people and haven't done for years. At its root, gun control here is, philosophically (not politically) a question of tolerance.

So, to link this back to Chris's comments, I put together a short list of a few non-Americans, of vastly different political stripes, who would likely disagree with his point of view regarding the 'problems' with our Bill of Rights (in no particular order): Voltaire; Montaigne; Euripides; Aristotle; Solon; Nelson Mandela; Ken Saro-Wiwa; Albert Camus; Jean Moulin; Socrates; Thomas de Konick; Aung San Suu Kyi; William Shakespeare....
laugh.gif

 
#79
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

hmmm I could have sworn this thread was about a range detector.

Tom if you are going to carry the PLRF-10 let me know too, I've been looking for one for 2 years now.

JeffVN
 
#81
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crnkin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember, USA is one of the only countries in the world that allows you to own a gun to 'protect yourself'.

In our country we have this thing called common sense. (although not in so much abundance as one would hope...)

That small founding document is the source of most of the US's problems, and explains why they can justify shooting a human being at 500y + with little more reason but may 'pose risk'.

Not saying the US is the worst country in the world, but there are archaic idea's floating round that seem pretty odd to us outsiders, nonetheless, I loved living in Cali, and am likely going to move back in a couple of years.

Chris </div></div>

Don't head back to California, your sheep would miss you.
 
#82
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...explains why they can justify shooting a human being at 500y</div></div>

In that shooting, the officer was shooting a subject firing at officers who were much closer. It doesn't matter how far away the shooter was - he was an active threat.

The lesson here is pretty simple - if you don't want to get shot, don't shoot at police officers.
 
#83
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crnkin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That small founding document is the source of most of the US's problems </div></div>
That "small founding document" is one of the most important documents on earth, my friend. It's clear to me you have little idea of its value. I'm sure you will be welcomed in California.
 
#85
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crnkin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember, USA is one of the only countries in the world that allows you to own a gun to 'protect yourself'.

In our country we have this thing called common sense. (although not in so much abundance as one would hope...)

That small founding document is the source of most of the US's problems, and explains why they can justify shooting a human being at 500y + with little more reason but may 'pose risk'.

Not saying the US is the worst country in the world, but there are archaic idea's floating round that seem pretty odd to <span style="color: #CC0000">us outsiders</span>, nonetheless, I loved living in Cali, and am likely going to move back in a couple of years.

Chris </div></div>

You should remain outside.
 
#86
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogtown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now you did it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5Cm4NxHf7E </div></div>
And your post prior to edit:

"Now you did it - notice, the American shooting community will use the words "tyranny", "socialism", etc at the drop of a hat to describe a non-ultra-conservative administration in Washington. At the same time, if a foreign national criticizes the same administration or our laws, they scream "how dare you!"

Fucking comedy."

End quote...

Dogtown... Read your signature... and ya' wonder.........
 
#87
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crnkin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember, USA is one of the only countries in the world that allows you to own a gun to 'protect yourself'.

In our country we have this thing called common sense. (although not in so much abundance as one would hope...)

That small founding document is the source of most of the US's problems, and explains why they can justify shooting a human being at 500y + with little more reason but may 'pose risk'.

Not saying the US is the worst country in the world, but there are archaic idea's floating round that seem pretty odd to us outsiders, nonetheless, I loved living in Cali, and am likely going to move back in a couple of years.

Chris</div></div>

So you think "common sense" is not having a firearm to protect yourself? Well honestly just keep your ass in New Zealand, even Cali doesn't need more liberal anti-Constitutionalist dumbass's. You and your fellow countrymen have fallen into what most of the rest of the world has, DEPENDENCY on your Government. American's believe than Men can rule themselves, and that the Function of Government is not to provide for us, but to keep us from losing our Freedom. You may feel free where your at, we feel bound where we're at. Why because Government's of Every type have one thing in common, a thirst for more control. Our Founding Father's knew this and gave us The Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, and The Bill of Rights. These Documents are not there to empower the Government, but rather to Restrain it. It's a constant battle to keep that Government restrained, but here we do it peacefully by voting and making our voices heard. It's apparent that you would disagree with American's that think the way I do, but those Sacred Documents are written in PLAIN ENGLISH that an 8th grader could understand if given the opportunity. This is why I disagree adamantly with Pres Obama about what he said in regards to Egypt closing down their internet, in Egypt they do not have FREE SPEECH. That is what separates the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA from the Rest of the World, and it's all because of that Small Document that you have no regards for. These Freedoms that We Hold Dear are not yours they are Ours because the People Spoke in 1776 and lit a Torch of Freedom that Burns today.

Sorry for the Rant but hopefully it strikes home with those in the UK and NZ.

As for the OP I don't know about the PLRF10 but the Vector IV is the shit, and if I had the money I'd get the PLRF10. Vectronix makes the best. I'll be watching out for the PLRF05
 
#88
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

Notice he didn't address a Problem. He was talking about our Freedoms. I guess I should be glad that I don't surround myself with people who don't know the difference.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tribe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogtown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now you did it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5Cm4NxHf7E </div></div>
And your post prior to edit:

"Now you did it - notice, the American shooting community will use the words "tyranny", "socialism", etc at the drop of a hat to describe a non-ultra-conservative administration in Washington. At the same time, if a foreign national criticizes the same administration or our laws, they scream "how dare you!"

Fucking comedy."

End quote...

Dogtown... Read your signature... and ya' wonder.........</div></div>
 
#89
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

This has gone totally off topic, but if you actually bothered to travel outside the US, you may realize the "rest of the world" is not all living in oppression, poverty and total lack of freedoms... the "rest of the world" are not all 3rd world poverty stricken nations with little hope and education. Sure there are countries that lie in a terrible state of poverty, with corrupt and opressive governments that you would not even want to go anywhere near the place let alone live in, im sure they would wholesomely benefit from a bill of rights like yours... but you also need to realize that there are great free countries outside the USA, that allow its citizens just as good a quality of life (in many ways better), without a bill of rights like in the US... open your mind, travel the world, see how its done elsewhere, and get an education before you pass judgment on how the "rest of us" live and who is worse off...

Ever considered the possibility that your quality of life and the dominant power of your nation is a product of free enterprise economic prosperity, not some 'document'?



 
#90
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

Nah, sadly few people have embarrassed me more overseas than my own countrymen - primarily for their myopic view of the world. Then again, the opposite it true too, but that was in a war zone.
 
#91
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

What do you have to do in Ausralia to own a handgun? I never said shit about poverty. If your happy then good for you it ain't my cup of tea. I'd like to know just how you think you've got it better though.
 
#93
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...explains why they can justify shooting a human being at 500y</div></div>

In that shooting, the officer was shooting a subject firing at officers who were much closer. It doesn't matter how far away the shooter was - he was an active threat.

The lesson here is pretty simple - if you don't want to get shot, don't shoot at police officers.
</div></div>

Thanks Lindy,...that makes perfect sense in the context of what actually happened.

All credit to the shooter in making a shot count at that distance.
 
#95
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

i don't have a clue, but i would bet a fair amount of money that they are just LRF, not bino's.

side note.........my PLRF-10 should ship on the 22nd. 3 more weeks!
 
#96
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: W54/XM-388</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crnkin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember, USA is one of the only countries in the world that allows you to own a gun to 'protect yourself'.

In our country we have this thing called common sense. (although not in so much abundance as one would hope...)

That small founding document is the source of most of the US's problems, and explains why they can justify shooting a human being at 500y + with little more reason but may 'pose risk'.

Not saying the US is the worst country in the world, but there are archaic idea's floating round that seem pretty odd to us outsiders, nonetheless, I loved living in Cali, and am likely going to move back in a couple of years.

Chris </div></div>

Don't head back to California, your sheep would miss you.</div></div>

Haha that made my day.

That was fun
smile.gif


How's that recession treating you? Dollar parity with a country of 16 million on the other side of the world. You guys must LOVE your freedom right now!

Nz doesn't have snipers as such, just the Sas and armed offenders squad, which are just multi purpose cqc type people.

From memory, last year, one person shot by the armed offenders squad and no police shot at.

Horses for courses, but there's too much good hunting outside of Nz to stay in paradise forever.

Chris

Ps the plrf5 is cool, man
 
#98
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crnkin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: W54/XM-388</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crnkin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember, USA is one of the only countries in the world that allows you to own a gun to 'protect yourself'.

In our country we have this thing called common sense. (although not in so much abundance as one would hope...)

That small founding document is the source of most of the US's problems, and explains why they can justify shooting a human being at 500y + with little more reason but may 'pose risk'.

Not saying the US is the worst country in the world, but there are archaic idea's floating round that seem pretty odd to us outsiders, nonetheless, I loved living in Cali, and am likely going to move back in a couple of years.

Chris </div></div>

Don't head back to California, your sheep would miss you.</div></div>

Haha that made my day.

That was fun
smile.gif


How's that recession treating you? Dollar parity with a country of 16 million on the other side of the world. You guys must LOVE your freedom right now!

Nz doesn't have snipers as such, just the Sas and armed offenders squad, which are just multi purpose cqc type people.

From memory, last year, one person shot by the armed offenders squad and no police shot at.

Horses for courses, but there's too much good hunting outside of Nz to stay in paradise forever.

Chris

Ps the plrf5 is cool, man






</div></div>




don't really care about anything else you said except for the PS.

so what do you know about it?
 
#100
Re: Vectronix PLRF10, who's using one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChrisF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If you have a need to range longer than the swaro , then you have no choice but to step up to the Vecttonix PLRF-10 or better .

BUT , soon , there will be another option for LR , and its comes from a Major player in this realm , and should be way cheaper than the current PLRF-10 option .


Later Chris </div></div>

Tag for interest
 
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