I am sure you would. Like I said it's an OK trigger. If it's all you have touched past crap ass triggers it might seem phenomenal. It's not. As far as triggers that fit the 700 style action being unsafe and unreliable.
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velocity loss per inch of barrel
- Thread starter Blasst
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Performance wise there are great 700 triggers and tons of great optios. The fact that they are unreliable isn't really up to you or me. There is an inherent design flaw in the trigger design. The original designer was aware of this and made it know to Remington. The main solution is frequently flushing out the trigger. In dusty or wet freezing conditions the trigger can fail. I don't choose the weather so I choose the trigger. I ask 2 non negotiables from a trigger, that is the safety works and the trigger always functions. By always I mean no exceptions.
Oh I've shot plenty of 700 triggers. They are really good. Just not reliable. The 700 has its flaws despite what others might tell you. It's a well kept secret. Luckily most 700 custom guns are setup for PRS and babied real good. My primary function is hunting so I'm not looking for a 1/4 ounce trigger. I'm looking for something I can shoot animals with within 400 yards. Not something that will fire when I take the safety of because moisture got in the trigger assembly.I am sure you would. Like I said it's an OK trigger. If it's all you have touched past crap ass triggers it might seem phenomenal. It's not. As far as triggers that fit the 700 style action being unsafe and unreliable.
Well, awful lot to unpack here in this thread.
But I’d just like to say that “Remington 700 triggers suck” (forgive my par-phrasing) is an incredibly broad stroke.
There is huge variety, and some are better than others in respects to the reliability/safety, that much has been documented. Of course it’s only natural with, the more variations produced things tend to improve but of course any opportunity to step forward will occasional lead to a step back.
But R700 triggers are not inherently unreliable. In the last 21 years of observing stock M24/M2010 triggers ran hard in some of the brutal places in the world, I have only seen 2 actual fail and both were remedied on the spot. One case was a incorrectly lubricated rifle in a -20 degrees Maine winter and the other was a LE rifle with about 20 years whoring on the books, 1000 rounds into a sniper course after enduring the better part of literal hurricane for several days. Both case of simple ignorance and blatant neglect.
The same goes for aftermarket triggers, there are variations amongst them as to quality and function. I’ve personally been running the same Jewel trigger (I know the horror) in my Surgeon for a decade, it’s endured something in the ball park of 20-30k rounds mostly in matches that would put any thing you might encounter on the PRS circuit to shame. It gone on several deployments, to include some winter adventures in Nepal and South Korea. It’s never failed and I’ve only ever bothered cleaning it once.
I like the tikka triggers, very functional and great track records. Of the hundreds I’ve seen in classes over the years, I can’t say I’ve ever seen a tikka trigger shit the bed. But then again if I had a dollar for every time I’ve seen Tikka magazines fail to feed under dusty conditions, I could probably take both of us out for burgers, which is no small feat in 2023!
But I’d just like to say that “Remington 700 triggers suck” (forgive my par-phrasing) is an incredibly broad stroke.
There is huge variety, and some are better than others in respects to the reliability/safety, that much has been documented. Of course it’s only natural with, the more variations produced things tend to improve but of course any opportunity to step forward will occasional lead to a step back.
But R700 triggers are not inherently unreliable. In the last 21 years of observing stock M24/M2010 triggers ran hard in some of the brutal places in the world, I have only seen 2 actual fail and both were remedied on the spot. One case was a incorrectly lubricated rifle in a -20 degrees Maine winter and the other was a LE rifle with about 20 years whoring on the books, 1000 rounds into a sniper course after enduring the better part of literal hurricane for several days. Both case of simple ignorance and blatant neglect.
The same goes for aftermarket triggers, there are variations amongst them as to quality and function. I’ve personally been running the same Jewel trigger (I know the horror) in my Surgeon for a decade, it’s endured something in the ball park of 20-30k rounds mostly in matches that would put any thing you might encounter on the PRS circuit to shame. It gone on several deployments, to include some winter adventures in Nepal and South Korea. It’s never failed and I’ve only ever bothered cleaning it once.
I like the tikka triggers, very functional and great track records. Of the hundreds I’ve seen in classes over the years, I can’t say I’ve ever seen a tikka trigger shit the bed. But then again if I had a dollar for every time I’ve seen Tikka magazines fail to feed under dusty conditions, I could probably take both of us out for burgers, which is no small feat in 2023!
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All 700s have same design flaw. Did not say they suck but they are equally unreliable for the same reason. The 700 does not pass the military drop test. The safety is not reliable and under wet freezing conditions or dusty conditions both of which I hunt in the trigger can malfunction. This is a well documented issue. If you take any 700 and you pour water on it and let it freeze the trigger will collect ice and when you take it off safe the gun with fire also the trigger will stop working. There are many other guns like the model 70, Tikkas, Sako, Kimber, Ruger, savage they are not susceptible to this. Most 700s will never expirience this. However if you hunt remotely you probably don't want to role the dice on trigger reliability. The probability is really low if you sheathe your gun and maintain the trigger. I prefer 0 probability... this is a known issue the military is aware of it and for that reason the have specific rules on how to maintain and handle a 700. When most people hear this they can't believe it because the 700 is so popular, how could this be? It can't be true? The federal government doesn't make mistakes! Well the 700 has a glaring weak point. No gun is perfect. I can buy whatever gun I want. Money isn't an issue I own a pile of guns. I will never own a 700.Well, awful lot to unpack here in this thread.
But I’d just like to say that “Remington 700 triggers suck” (forgive my par-phrasing) is an incredibly broad stroke.
There is huge variety, and some are better than others in respects to the reliability/safety, that much has been documented. Of course it’s only natural with, the more variations produced things tend to improve but of course any opportunity to step forward will occasional lead to a step back.
But R700 triggers are not inherently unreliable. In the last 21 years of observing stock M24/M2010 triggers ran hard in some of the brutal places in the world, I have only seen 2 actual fail and both were remedied on the spot. One case was a incorrectly lubricated rifle in a -20 degrees Maine winter and the other was a LE rifle with about 20 years whoring on the books, 1000 rounds into a sniper course after enduring the better part of literal hurricane for several days. Both case of simple ignorance and blatant neglect.
The same goes for aftermarket triggers, there are variations amongst them as to quality and function. I’ve personally been running the same Jewel trigger (I know the horror) in my Surgeon for a decade, it’s endured something in the ball park of 20-30k rounds mostly in matches that would put any thing you might encounter on the PRS circuit to shame. It gone on several deployments, to include some winter adventures in Nepal and South Korea. It’s never failed and I’ve only ever bothered cleaning it once.
I like the tikka triggers, very functional and great track records. Of the hundreds I’ve seen in classes over the years, I can’t say I’ve ever seen a tikka trigger shit the bed. But then again if I had a dollar for every time I’ve seen Tikka magazines fail to feed under dusty conditions, I could probably take both of us out for burgers, which is no small feat in 2023!
"The 700 does not pass the military drop test".
So interesting since I literally used a 700 in the army for years. The m24 and the m40, as well as the 210 have been in use since the 70's.
That's the third time in this thread you've mentioned the military and been wrong about everything you said. You actually made the claim above that the military no longer uses the .308. We all just let that slide because it's obvious you are talking about things you know nothing about, but now the 700's aren't good enough for the military? Interesting. Which branch were you in?
He didn't want a conversation, remember?
Now, we need to pull you away from the transient talking to himself. LOL308 is still in use but the 223 is the main cartridge. The military also uses other rounds as well. The 308 is not what most folks in the field are carrying. The 700 does not pass the military drop test. This does not mean the military doesn't use the 700 platform.
Tell me about your military experience.
I spent a couple of months shy of 12 years in the army. I was an infantryman and a sniper. I've fired enough .308 through 700 actions to sink a barge, and I don't even want to think about what the pile of .223 would look like.
You're making a whole bunch of declarations about what they do and don't use, and I'm pretty sure your knowledge is based on what you read on Facebook.
@Packjam
I was worried that perhaps Some members here might’ve jumped the gun in your initial response to this post, however in retrospect I see that they were right on the money.
Show me military drop test parameters, and documentation the M24/M40/M2010 failed. Show me these “specific rules” the military has for maintaining a R700.
Show me a hunt that more brutal than 10 months of humping you’re ass across the Hindu Kush or more dangerous than hunting other human beings .
I’ll wait on both accounts.
I was worried that perhaps Some members here might’ve jumped the gun in your initial response to this post, however in retrospect I see that they were right on the money.
Show me military drop test parameters, and documentation the M24/M40/M2010 failed. Show me these “specific rules” the military has for maintaining a R700.
Show me a hunt that more brutal than 10 months of humping you’re ass across the Hindu Kush or more dangerous than hunting other human beings .
I’ll wait on both accounts.
I'm just explaining my approach. Everyone gets to choose what they do. I just have a hard time buying a custom action for $1000+ waiting 12 weeks when I can buy a whole gun for 750 and have the same quality of machining or better that comes with a trigger that suits my needs and the triggers is more reliable. For the cost to build a custom 700 I can build 2 Tikkas. The 700 dominates for many good reasons. It's far more versatile and customizable platform. I've handled multiple 700 actions and none have been as smooth as a tikka or sako. Also I have found more feeding issues with 700 as well depending on the maker like bergaras tend to have feed issues and I see those at PRS quite often see lots of issues with those. But the nicer custom actions tend to be much better and smoother but now we're talking $2000 lol just for an action
. Can't criticize the 700 I guess lol.
Actually Drop Safe: Geissele Automatics Remington 700 Triggers
Read: Actually Drop Safe: Geissele Automatics Remington 700 Triggers from Tom Marshall on January 22, 2018 for Recoil.
This trigger is not in continuous production. When they do come out make sure to buy some! See it on eBay buy a few!
The 700 trigger isn't going to simply fail randomly. You need a perfect storm. The probability is low. I prefer 0 probability. There is a probability. I don't gamble. Im not spending $6000 on a custom build if it means there is a 1 in a million chance of failure due to the design of the system. I shoot prs mainly to sharpen my skills but I do so with a lite breaked hunting rifle. Yes. I get a lot of attention using a stock. I typically will place above people with $6000 rifles. I do it to improve my skill. If I was really in it to win I'd build 20lb behemoth and it would still probably be a tikka. F class id consider a 700 mainly due to the coal but if I went 7prc I'd see if I could make a tikka work or maybe do a Sako s20. If I'm going for 1/8 inch groups im jaming it to the lands and getting all sciency. In the end time at the range is more important than what platform you use. I know guys who bag an elk every year and they use a $50 Simmons 3-9 and a savage. Total shit setup gets the job done. Savage also isn't know for reliability they have issues with military primers.@Packjam
I was worried that perhaps Some members here might’ve jumped the gun in your initial response to this post, however in retrospect I see that they were right on the money.
Show me military drop test parameters, and documentation the M24/M40/M2010 failed. Show me these “specific rules” the military has for maintaining a R700.
Show me a hunt that more brutal than 10 months of humping you’re ass across the Hindu Kush or more dangerous than hunting other human beings .
I’ll wait on both accounts.
This guy just said that 700 style actions in prs have lots of issues.
You've never actually been to a prs match I take it.
99.6% of prs shooters are shooting a 700 style action with one of those unreliable triggers. I wonder why they don't know what you know. Nobody is running a tikka..
Are they missing you over on barfcom?
You've never actually been to a prs match I take it.
99.6% of prs shooters are shooting a 700 style action with one of those unreliable triggers. I wonder why they don't know what you know. Nobody is running a tikka..
Are they missing you over on barfcom?
He just said that he won't accept a one in a million chance of failure in his rifle.
I'm sure glad tikka is that good.
Fella, go to the BBB website and read about Beretta USA, the parent company of Tikka. They have an "F" rating, the worst a company can get. Way more than one in a million people had their tikka fall apart and then found out that they have the worst customer service in the entire firearms industry. You may want to ask more questions and make less statements. Many of the people on this site have doctorate level understanding of these topics, and you're about to repeat the second grade for the third time.
I'm sure glad tikka is that good.
Fella, go to the BBB website and read about Beretta USA, the parent company of Tikka. They have an "F" rating, the worst a company can get. Way more than one in a million people had their tikka fall apart and then found out that they have the worst customer service in the entire firearms industry. You may want to ask more questions and make less statements. Many of the people on this site have doctorate level understanding of these topics, and you're about to repeat the second grade for the third time.
Unfortunately I was educated to not join the military. I'm the first generation to not go. Dad was in Vietnam, uncle vietnam grandad WWII, I have ancestors who died in WWI. They were drafted... they made sure I didn't go if it was my choice. The stories of retards in management kept me far far away. I live in a military town and shoot with a lot of active duty and vets. The people are great the system kind of sucks. I don't mean any respect to any vets or active duty. It's tough job and true sacrifice. Thank you for your service. Fortunately we live in America where the streets are lined with guns. I taught marksmanship from a Vietnam killing machine but many of my friends are active duty and I shoot with them all the time. My dad also shot competitively and was very gifted some people just shoot better. He was built like a sofa chair and had a rock steady hand. Surprisingly gentle and calm for someone who basically spent 5 years dragging dead bodies out of the jungles of Vietnam. I progressively reload piles of 223 for a pile of ars I built and have probably blown threw an unimaginable amount of cheapo soft point progressively reloaded 223. I also burn through piles of progressively reloaded 308. I plan to shoot 500 rounds this coming month before hunting season. I find that practice right before a hunt I can really extend my range in the field. 308 is great for training.
To clear up I am aware the the military still uses 308. What I was referring to was how the 223 largely took its place. We went from 30-06 to 308 then to 223. The use of 223 overwhelming over shadows the use of 308. 308 is more of a specialty cartridge.
The 700 does not pass the drop test. The military still uses the 700. I did not say the military does not use the 700.
You're still making incorrect statements. Too many to rebutt.
You seem like a nice guy, and you're not unintelligent. Do yourself a favor and spend some time un-learning the incorrect information you're carrying around. You don't know what you don't know, but believe me, it's a lot. This forum is a goldmine of knowledge. Ask questions, do research, and be open minded. There is a place for you here, but you're filled with bullshit that you need to forget.
I'm all ears. But I still think the Tikkas are a great value and very reliable. Cost wise the Tikka is going to beat out any 700 build and the action will be smoother. For PRS I think 700 starts to edge out because you can get a 4 ounce trigger. I would not do a hokey spring upgrade on a tikka trigger I keep it stock and Ive heard of those trigger jobs resulting in less reliability and safety issues. Don't doubt there is a safe way to do it but I play it conservative. I think the guy behind the action is more important than the brand of the action.
Tikka has terrible customer service they have great QC. Ruger has great customer service and terrible QC. I guess companies have to choose, do I build guns right or do a build a department to fix all of my mistakes. I would be more wary of company that invests so heavily in customer service. I have multiple Tikkas and have never had any issues. I own one savage it has issues their customer service was great, I own 4 rugers and had to send one in for rebarrel because the chamber had gouges in it. Their customer service was great. I've found a lot of factory guns have very poor QC. I should have to buy 1000s of guns before I find one with a defect. Mind you Remington went bankrupt because of their triggers... not sure if you know this but Remington is a shell of a company. It's a town bicycle. They get sued every six months and the bought at a discount by someone else. Ruger now owns marlin which used to be owned by Remington. Remington is a shit company.
I'm done. It's the old "don't play chess with a pigeon" situation.
Have a good one.
Have a good one.
I never asked to play chess or asked for advice. I'm just responding to you guys. You keep coming. I'm having fun with this. You seem like you don't have the ability understand how other people could possibly think differently than yourself or have different values. I'm very happy with my Tikkas. I am very happy with 30-06. I just love the versatility of the cartridge. I prefer 30 cal which doesn't have great BCs when compared to 7mm or 6.5mm. But I like the availability and the options. One day I'll look into a 7 prc but I feel like it really hasn't caught on and right now I'm shy on magnums because of the primer situation. Can't wait for brass and primers to get in stock. I will be building a 300 WSM once things get normal. 300 WSM aside from availability of parts and same with 7 prc just look great on paper. You can also run the 300wsm as a long action in a tikka which is pretty cool. 3.4" coal and I can load 215 vlds to the lands.
I did not say that. 700 triggers are known to be less reliable. Just not going to spend 6k on a custom gun that has a trigger with an inherent design flaw that makes in less reliable. A lot of PRS is rem 700. I've seen a hand ful of Tikkas. For short action I would go Tikka over a 700. I could spend more money on shooting and have a superior product. Do you own any Tikka actions? The barrels are also quite accurate out of the box too. Very solid gun. Stock isn't great but there are a lot of aftermarket options.
You've seen a handful of tikkas in prs?
Well, that's a handful more than I've seen. you've never seen anyone shooting one that turned in a score that mattered. 700 actions or more acurately their clones dominate prs, not even debatable. They aren't perfect, but they are not unreliable, nor is there an inherent design flaw that a hunter should even be thinking about. The best triggers on the planet fit 700 actions, and that's also not debatable. The best stocks fit 700 actions and on and on. Tikka makes a slick action, and if you don't mind buying from a company that is absolutely fucking trash, go ahead. If you have any trouble with them, you might as well use it as a boat anchor because those scumbags aren't fixing anything.
I had one, a T1X that exploded in my hands. Sent it back for them to "investigate the cause". After the first year or two with zero contact, and after calling a hundred times, writing emails to everyone in the company, and threatening them with legal action, I finally gave up. That was 2019 and they have never so much as returned a phone call. They stole my rifle and won't give it back. They are literally the scum of the fucking earth. If they filed bankruptcy tomorrow, I'd throw a party. They won't have any more of my money.
P.s. remington's bankruptcy had nothing to do with their triggers. That's gossip bullshit. There also was never an issue with their triggers, other than that they made them too easy to adjust for the idiots, then the idiots turned them down too far and started slam firing them into their buddies. Idiots were the problem, not the triggers, but when you outsell every other bolt action 20 to 1, you'll get more idiots, and more lawsuits.
Yea or if you drop a 700 hundred. Don't drop one please lol. You're story sounds suspicious regarding the rifle. I dont doubt they have terrible customer service. I own 4 Tikkas never had a problem. I think Tikkas are on the up and coming for PRS stuff as people are finding out about how easy they are to work on and a lot of the popular chassis available for the 700 are now being offered for the Tikka. Last march I saw 2 Tikkas there may have been more. A lot of companies are stepping into the Tikka market. No reason for aftermarket triggers. The Tikka triggers don't need to be improved on unlike the inherently hazardous 700 triggers that have actually killed people and weren't tampered with. Believe what you want. Remington is one of the worst rifle makers how many times have they filed bankruptcy?
I read about two sentences of your response and remembered who you were. I can't believe I came back here for more of your ignorant vomit. Please don't tag me again, I'm done with you. You have no idea what you're talking about, and now you're questioning my integrity. Now I need to tell you that your dad didn't spend 5 years dragging bodies out of the jungle in Vietnam, because nobody did. If you had ever bothered to educate yourself about the deployment cycles in Vietnam, and the infrequency of combat for 99% of the people who were there, you'd realize quickly that those numbers don't work. About 18% volunteered for their second tour. The 3rd tour volunteers were less then 1%, 4th deployment was a fraction of 1%, and there probably weren't a dozen people who volunteered for a 5th deployment. Pretty fucking unlikely your dad was on that list, and even if he was, ( he wasn't), he wasn't dragging bodies out of the jungle for 5 years. That shit is pretty fucking insulting to the people here who were actually over there doing the damn thing. Now, for his sake, I'm going to hope that the bullshit you claimed about him was your own exaggeration, and you didn't grow up hearing that lie. If you did, that explains a lot. If you didn't, it explains even more.
I do not know the exact number of years he was in Vietnam. He was enlisted for 5 or 8 years I do not recall the exact dates. He was a medical corpsman. He saw a lot of sad stuff. My grandfather on the other hand was in a military band and played the trombone, he toured Europe providing entrainment at events. He had a great time! Well I guess I went too far. I went over the edge. I said the 700 has a poorly designed trigger. Lesson learned. On my dad's ashes I promise never to insult the holy 700 action.
A 22lr exploded in your hands. That's a made up story. You're obviously lying. At least make up a good lie. You're a real scum bag. Idk what you are after and then you say my dad never went to Vietnam. Who do you think you are man? Then these weirdos come in like Fred. What a weird ass. This thread really attracted the scum of this forum. I'm sure there are good people on this forum but just like any forum there are a bunch of shit posting losers who don't know jack and want to tell other people what to do. This is my last post on here. It was fun while it lasted but it's at a point where Ive realizes I'm engaging with asshole retards and asshole retards don't know when to stop.
Oh thank fucking God! Everybody will be better off not reading your stupid shit.
It was a 17hmr, and here are the pictures you fucking half wit.
Now, go back to wherever you came from. There is a village somewhere wondering where their idiot went.
Attachments
Tikka left you hang to dry on this too? What about the ammo manufacturer?
I called them, they told me "no problem, send it in so we can figure out what happened". They've had it since 2019. I gave up on it years ago after calling and emailing for a year and a half. If you go to the BBB website and look up Beretta USA you'll find out that they've done this to dozens of people. I wasn't looking for a lawsuit, I just asked them to replace it or give me a refund. They are literal scum man. Seriously
They stole my rifle
The ammo was hornady. I never bothered them. What happened was an over pressure for some undetermined reason, and instead of releasing the pressure correctly, it blew our the mag well violently. It's a design flaw and they knew it. I'm sure I could sue them, but I wasn't really injured, just scratched, and I'm just not into suing people. I bought a bergara and shot the same ammo through it for years, no issues.
That is so fucked up! Maybe another call now that the great COVID scam has waned. Fret the fact, but ATF trace on the gun might shake some shit loose.
I gave up on it. It was $550 for me, and maybe a hundred thousand dollars for them over my lifetime. I buy 15-20 guns a year, and none of them will ever be from Beretta USA. They won't notice, but it's the best I can do. That, and I tell this story when the opportunity presents itself. I hope they go bankrupt and have their executives have to blow guys in dark alleys to buy food.
Other than Autism Adam on his chrome book in this thread, I am glad you didn't take the SH gang rape I did with a product failing and company shit CS. "You must be a liar because my Beretta and Tikka shoot just fine" - the goblins.
Velocity loss still figure about 15-20fps per inch? Ya I think so. Let me check if the laws of physics changed...nope...
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