Anyone out there make an aftermarket vertical grip for J Allen?
Or has anyone built up a grip?
Thanks
Or has anyone built up a grip?
Thanks
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Vertical grip modification to J allen
- Thread starter Dthomas3523
- Start date
Grips are interchangeable. They are a overmolded type rubber.
I wouldn’t say it’s half the point. I don’t think anyone buys a j Allen specifically for the angled grip. Too many cheaper options that offer similar grips.
That would be interesting. Gonna start looking around.
Any 3D printer experts around??
I run the biggest print shop in MO! Could someone send me a grip panel to check out?
The vertical grip was about the *only* non-positive thing I could say about about the JAE's.
If you guys end up making one, I would do away with the palm shelf as well. No need for it and it gets in the way of gripping the rifle properly if you drop your elbow to your knee on some barricades.
If you guys end up making one, I would do away with the palm shelf as well. No need for it and it gets in the way of gripping the rifle properly if you drop your elbow to your knee on some barricades.
I recently took my palm shelves off.
I have short fingers, so I have to rotate the bottom of my hand forward to get a proper 90deg trigger. The shelf just gets in the way.
I could always ad spacers, but with my hand rotated, I’d never rest hand there anyway.
Watching with interest.
While I currently don't mind at all the current grip angle of the JAE, I think a more upright profile, something similar to the grip angle of the KRG Bravo, could be a nice improvement.
While I currently don't mind at all the current grip angle of the JAE, I think a more upright profile, something similar to the grip angle of the KRG Bravo, could be a nice improvement.
I am going to work on one. I've got the best 3d printer currently available for manufacturing plastics.
Hey Tyler, Hp multi jet fusion 4200. By the way, I really like your products, keep up the good work in this industry!
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Yep, those are sweet machines. Considering one later in 2019.
No. Wasn’t much point with them going out of business.
Will see what mdt has once they are up and running with them.
Will see what mdt has once they are up and running with them.
Thanks...read this with interest as I have the same issue with my J Allen. Smallish hands and I want to orient my trigger finger movement more to the horizontal. Right now, I just move the bottom of my firing hand away from the bottom of the grip in the front and lower palm side. Works but not optimum as I would like something I can feel is more consistent each and every time.
Perhaps with MDT starting to release J Allen products, you may want to revisit this with @Tyler Kemp?
Alternatively, I have a grip I could send him if anybody thinks it would be productive. Tyler....anybody?
I did suggest to MDT that they consider making different grip "skins" with differing angle/distance from trigger.
I'm sure that they have their hands full at the moment but I personally would love to see something like this offered.
I have some mole skin and God-a-Grip material and I'm going to try to build one up a bit and see if it will be durable. Need to move my hand forward, move the angle of my hand to a bit more vertical, and expand out the bottom part of the palm area.
Seems like a decent winter/COVID lockdown project....but I'm not very handy and will probably hose it up! LOL
As an aside, I also found the LOP to be a bit long and frankly the J Allen recoil pad is far from my favorite. So, had a friend grind down a Kick-eeze 3/4" pad using an LOP spacer I had for a pattern. For one chassis, I have the bag rider on there so we needed to trim off that bit of a bottom tab on the Kick-eeze to get it to fit. With the more standard small PIC rail section, we found you could leave the tab on. Works way better for me than the original pad. Reduced LOP by 1/2" and grips my shoulder far better.
Cheers
I’m sure mdt is well aware a close/vertical grip interface is pretty important/popular. I would be very surprised if they don’t address it at some point.
@MDT_Josh
Hello Mr. Thomas - I'm sorry....I'm a wee bit dense this morning. "MDT is well away"?? Well away from having time to do this soon? Well away as in on their way to producing one?
They did acknowledge my feature request and said that they fed this to product management, but after many decades working in the telcom network equipment sector, I know this can also mean its in the dead letter box! haha
Do you think pursuing a printed skin from @Tyler Kemp would/would not perhaps be productive?
Tyler...Any thoughts? Have you had a chance to look at one of these skins yet to see if its reasonable to try this or???
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@Dthomas3523 @MojoNixon - hahaha...thanks. Posted my reply before I saw Mr. Thomas' edit.
got it now.
got it now.
Thank you! Just took a look at your site and see that you do indeed make after market grips. 3D printed, I assume.
Since I tagged Tyler, I'd like to give him a chance to reply. Cool?
But, the skin does come off the chassis easily and I have one I can send as a template if that works out.
@Baron23 yes, Anarchy Outdoors sells a couple AI parts I designed which are 3D printed, along with a variety of aftermarket grips that they designed. They have been using a production 3D print shop for years which uses the HP Fusion printer referenced above in the thread. My personal test prints are done on a consumer-level printer, which can make strong prints depending on the material, but have nowhere near the finished quality of a pro-level printer.
By all means reach out to Tyler and see what he can do. This thread is pretty old, so I'm not sure if there's real interest behind it or not. And I'm not jumping at the bit to spend a bunch of time on it to sell two of them only to have MDT come out with their version of it in a couple months.
By all means reach out to Tyler and see what he can do. This thread is pretty old, so I'm not sure if there's real interest behind it or not. And I'm not jumping at the bit to spend a bunch of time on it to sell two of them only to have MDT come out with their version of it in a couple months.
haha...very understandable.
As for MDT, I'm kind of assuming (out of complete and utter ignorance) that the OG J Allen grips were perhaps injection molded as there is some sort of easily bendable metal in the rubberized feeling skin that....I'm guessing...is intended at least in part provide a hard point for the attachment bolt heads.
I had, continuing my ignorance, assumed that MDT would not be rushing to make more molds for various grips (rather expensive) but I know nothing about the state of modern production 3D printing so my assumption well may make an "ass" out of me.
The Nylon material used in Fusion printers is surprisingly tough, textured, and dimensionally accurate when compared directly to injection molding. If MDT is going to make 1000 grips then they'll likely pursue injection molding, but for prototypes or smaller runs it absolutely makes more sense to 3D print where you pay more per part but don't have the high tooling cost associated with injection molding.
The main thing with plastics is needing metal inserts for threads (tapped holes) as the pull-out strength and ability to remove and install the fastener over and over isn't great in comparison. But using plastic for the head of a cap screw in a counterbore hole works just fine. Looking at pics, it appears as though the JAE grip screws thread into the metal chassis frame.
They do indeed screw into the chassis with, as far as I can tell, the metal in the grip, as you say, only providing a hard point for the bolt head.
Thanks for the info...very interesting.
I sort of wish @MDT_OFFICIAL would be a bit more forthcoming about their future plans for the J Allen chassis and accessories but I understand and respect them a great deal. Better to keep your mouth shut and over perform than make promises and miss the mark.
But I would love to know how seriously they may be considering making different grip configurations.
Cheers and have a great day. I really do appreciate the insights you have provided me.
I would certainly be interested on a more vertical grip profile if MDT came up with a suitable alternative to the current grip. I have two JAE chassis', I don't think I will ever get rid of them as I absolutely love this chassis. I love the current grip material and texture, if something could be made to replicate the current grip texture and feel but in a more upright posture, I would be all over it.
I'm really happy that @MDT_OFFICIAL picked up JAE, I couldn't think of a better company to continue the heritage of JAE. I do agree that as an enthusiastic owner of JAE chassis', that I'm really excited to see what MDT has in store for the brand and their evolution of the brand going forward, and also anxious
Thanks for the tag and the interest all. Can't tell you much, but I will say that new grip profiles are in the works and we should have multiple options available at release
Josh
Josh
Outstanding!Thanks for the tag and the interest all. Can't tell you much, but I will say that new grip profiles are in the works and we should have multiple options available at release
Josh
I can definitely knock this out. Been looking into some nice scanners to reproduce shapes like this without the trial and error of doing it by hand.
The Nylon 11 we're printing on the 5200 has a bit softer feel than Nylon 12 the vast majority are using, and is significantly more durable.
If we're talking 1000 grips it's likely to be dang near as cheap to print after mold fees. 10000 though, definitely mold em, although I doubt they'd sell that many in any near future.
I just need someone to get me the grip! Or preferably, a whole chassis so it's easy to assess fit rather than sending parts back and forth. Makes the process vastly slower and more expensive.
The Nylon 11 we're printing on the 5200 has a bit softer feel than Nylon 12 the vast majority are using, and is significantly more durable.
If we're talking 1000 grips it's likely to be dang near as cheap to print after mold fees. 10000 though, definitely mold em, although I doubt they'd sell that many in any near future.
I just need someone to get me the grip! Or preferably, a whole chassis so it's easy to assess fit rather than sending parts back and forth. Makes the process vastly slower and more expensive.
HI Tyler - well, sorry to have bothered you with a tag but since MDT says that they are going to release different grip profiles with the launch of their version of the chassis, I think I may try to build up the grip on one gun and see how that works while waiting for MDT.
And yes, there is no release date that I'm aware of from MDT re when the chassis will be released.
My one concern about printed is "nylon" which I imagine is not very flexible...at least not the few printed items I have. And, while I have only taken a grip skin on/off a few times, its my memory that it does need to be flexible to some extent to do so. Got to kind of bend it out from the back side a bit to get it on/off. Not sure how that would work with Nylon.
If MDT is printing grip skins....maybe (just speculation here) that its made in left/right parts and assembled on the chassis??? Or not! haha
@Tyler Kemp and @samb300 I will say that our new grips will not be backwards compatible with the OG JAE chassis as they had a COMPLETELY different manufacturing method than what we are doing, so there is still a lot of opportunity to support existing product? The original materials were very soft and pliable, which is not really feasible to be done on an HP multijet printer, but the vertical shape could be adapted fairly easily
Just a thought,
Josh
Just a thought,
Josh
@Tyler Kemp and @samb300 I will say that our new grips will not be backwards compatible with the OG JAE chassis as they had a COMPLETELY different manufacturing method than what we are doing, so there is still a lot of opportunity to support existing product? The original materials were very soft and pliable, which is not really feasible to be done on an HP multijet printer, but the vertical shape could be adapted fairly easily
Just a thought,
Josh
That's a bummer.
I'm curious what the new chassis is going to look like. @MDT_Josh - don't change it too much!
It's necessary to solve another issue, so a bittersweet win in the end. We're doing all that we can to retain the feel and quality of the original chassis, I promise and I think that it's going to be awesome!
Josh
@MDT_Josh@Tyler Kemp and @samb300 I will say that our new grips will not be backwards compatible with the OG JAE chassis as they had a COMPLETELY different manufacturing method than what we are doing, so there is still a lot of opportunity to support existing product? The original materials were very soft and pliable, which is not really feasible to be done on an HP multijet printer, but the vertical shape could be adapted fairly easily
Just a thought,
Josh
HI Josh - wow, bit disappointing after so recently been excited by your prior post!! haha But, better to know now than later.
So, I see in your reply that you too note that the OG grip skin was pliable but I'm a bit confused as to why you then say "but the vertical shape could be adapted fairly easily" with (assumption here) a printed grip cover. It doesn't seem like stiff nylon can be made to work with the original configuration as it won't bend (??) or won't bend easily (??) or ??
It seemed clear to me (in my total ignorance haha) that the original skin was indeed injection molded and why I wasn't expecting much in the way of new grip configs from MDT....just couldn't see you guys racing to spend the $$ for a number of new molds. I guess I was kind of right as, if I understand correctly, you have abandoned the molded rubberized approach in favor of....printed??.
Again, thank you for the added info....not the news I wanted to hear, but the news I needed to hear.
Cheers
So, @Tyler Kemp and @samb300 - with this info, do you think that a nylon printed grip can be made to work....not sure if you guys have handled/owned a J Allen chassis. Do you think there is any avenue to pursue here?
Cheers
You can print TPU with the 5200@Tyler Kemp and @samb300 I will say that our new grips will not be backwards compatible with the OG JAE chassis as they had a COMPLETELY different manufacturing method than what we are doing, so there is still a lot of opportunity to support existing product? The original materials were very soft and pliable, which is not really feasible to be done on an HP multijet printer, but the vertical shape could be adapted fairly easily
Just a thought,
Josh
I am using Nylon 11 which is also significantly more pliable and durable than the typical Nylon 12 which is what 95%+ of folks are MJFing. 11 has an elongation factor multiple times that of 12. It is however not nearly as soft as the original grip panel. I had a customer send one in, but we were simply too busy to make the part at that time. The flex fit would be 0 problem at all, but the tactile feel would require TPU.
HI Tyler - will PM you to see if you have any interest in pursuing this a bit further. I do have an empty J Allen chassis so I could send you the grip or....I guess I could send the whole chassis which would probably make things MUCH easier.You can print TPU with the 5200
I am using Nylon 11 which is also significantly more pliable and durable than the typical Nylon 12 which is what 95%+ of folks are MJFing. 11 has an elongation factor multiple times that of 12. It is however not nearly as soft as the original grip panel. I had a customer send one in, but we were simply too busy to make the part at that time. The flex fit would be 0 problem at all, but the tactile feel would require TPU.
Cheers
@Tyler Kemp - correct any of the below if you disagree.
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Tyler and I are in communication but he has a busy week ahead of him. We will get together on the phone when his time permits and see if we can flesh out plans to at least prototype a revised grip skin.
If all goes well, I will ship him an empty chassis to work from and see if we can come up with something suitable for OG J Allen's.
It may take a bit of time before we have anything to report, but we (I?) will def let you guys know how its going and the results.
Myself, personally, would want the front strap of the grip to be more vertical and extended forward from the current front strap. And perhaps a bit more meat at the bottom of the palm swell. I suspect that once he has the dimensions in software, its fairly straightforward to make some small number of variations with perhaps differing degrees of vertical angle and movement forward toward the trigger. Maybe
I do have a Question for OG J Allen owners....but a bit of explanation first.
In shooting my J Allen rifle, I am scooting my hand forward a bit...more so on the bottom...that is, sort of rotating the bottom of my hand forward which brings the rotation of my trigger finger more into the horizontal (so, pull straight back and not back and upward). But I find in doing so, I'm also moving my bottom of my shooting hand palm outward a bit away from the grip. That is, moving the blade of my hand into a more vertical orientation. I'm not sure that this would still be something needed once the grip is more vertical and closer to the trigger shoe.
Question: are you guys who also have smallish hands (which does in scientific fact mean we have HUGE Johnsons! haha) happy with the existing palm swell or are you finding the need to do a bit of the same as I in terms of moving off the bottom of the grip a bit to make your palm more vertical?
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Tyler and I are in communication but he has a busy week ahead of him. We will get together on the phone when his time permits and see if we can flesh out plans to at least prototype a revised grip skin.
If all goes well, I will ship him an empty chassis to work from and see if we can come up with something suitable for OG J Allen's.
It may take a bit of time before we have anything to report, but we (I?) will def let you guys know how its going and the results.
Myself, personally, would want the front strap of the grip to be more vertical and extended forward from the current front strap. And perhaps a bit more meat at the bottom of the palm swell. I suspect that once he has the dimensions in software, its fairly straightforward to make some small number of variations with perhaps differing degrees of vertical angle and movement forward toward the trigger. Maybe
I do have a Question for OG J Allen owners....but a bit of explanation first.
In shooting my J Allen rifle, I am scooting my hand forward a bit...more so on the bottom...that is, sort of rotating the bottom of my hand forward which brings the rotation of my trigger finger more into the horizontal (so, pull straight back and not back and upward). But I find in doing so, I'm also moving my bottom of my shooting hand palm outward a bit away from the grip. That is, moving the blade of my hand into a more vertical orientation. I'm not sure that this would still be something needed once the grip is more vertical and closer to the trigger shoe.
Question: are you guys who also have smallish hands (which does in scientific fact mean we have HUGE Johnsons! haha) happy with the existing palm swell or are you finding the need to do a bit of the same as I in terms of moving off the bottom of the grip a bit to make your palm more vertical?
Morning!
Happy to hear that @Tyler Kemp and yourself are working on this! To clarify, the OG JAE grips were done as an overmold of sorts but not injection molded. Their production time was slow and their process was costly, which is why we're changing our new grips to be injection moldable, whilst still trying to retain the feel and function.
What I meant by my original comment was that if Tyler has the original grip in hand and can see how it attaches to the chassis, he should be able to reverse engineer it and make it into a vertical profile so that he can print some, however, it will be time consuming and a bit of a pain to do (ask me how I know
). A 3d scanner makes these operations easier, but still a time consuming job. If he is able to MJF TPU material that will give the printed grip a much nicer feel, but my concern would be the screw attachment points to the chassis body. I feel like a solid Nylon 11 or 12 grip would be the best solution, but I'll leave that to you guys!Yes, that was a feature of the original and something we intend to carry forward!
Josh
Will any of your new stuff be backwards compatible with OG Chassis (grip aside)? NV Bridges, Spigot mounts, etc etc?Morning!
Happy to hear that @Tyler Kemp and yourself are working on this! To clarify, the OG JAE grips were done as an overmold of sorts but not injection molded. Their production time was slow and their process was costly, which is why we're changing our new grips to be injection moldable, whilst still trying to retain the feel and function.
What I meant by my original comment was that if Tyler has the original grip in hand and can see how it attaches to the chassis, he should be able to reverse engineer it and make it into a vertical profile so that he can print some, however, it will be time consuming and a bit of a pain to do (ask me how I know
Yes, that was a feature of the original and something we intend to carry forward!
Josh
