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Vintage Sniper prone
- Thread starter binski
- Start date
First, gotta say I haven’t met a Swede rifle that wasn't long. So, I understand the difficulty. The thing I would focus on is working on your prone then figuring out the changes you need to make for a longer rifle. Look at different positions other shooters use.
In the end, getting the butt to the center of your chest is paramount. I find my non- trigger hand ends up being right under the magazine. With a whole lot of barrel hanging out there. I also end up scooching back instead of forward when finalizing my position. I’m kinda short coupled and that is how I get stable with my Swede. The sling almost goes straight back, I’m so far back on the rifle.
In the end, getting the butt to the center of your chest is paramount. I find my non- trigger hand ends up being right under the magazine. With a whole lot of barrel hanging out there. I also end up scooching back instead of forward when finalizing my position. I’m kinda short coupled and that is how I get stable with my Swede. The sling almost goes straight back, I’m so far back on the rifle.
I shoot a K98 mauser with the long side rail mount. Maybe the same mount as yours? You have to remember these scope mount designs started as hunting rifles, not meant to be shot prone. They are a real bugger to get comfortable in the prone position.
I start by getting the buttplate in the pocket just like you would for a target rifle. Now the fun starts. Because the scope is so high above the stock, you have to use a kind of modified chin weld. I found that I had to shoot a much higher position to do this. All you can do is try and get your chin/cheek on the same place on the stock. Do this consistently and you will be surprised at your results. I've never seen a swede that didn't shoot well.
Hope this helps,
Kevin
I start by getting the buttplate in the pocket just like you would for a target rifle. Now the fun starts. Because the scope is so high above the stock, you have to use a kind of modified chin weld. I found that I had to shoot a much higher position to do this. All you can do is try and get your chin/cheek on the same place on the stock. Do this consistently and you will be surprised at your results. I've never seen a swede that didn't shoot well.
Hope this helps,
Kevin
binski,
Not sure as to your shooting experience and definitely not to take away from what you've already learned. I would suggest going to an Appleseed Marksmanship Clinic wherever you can find one. And, then attend another one or two more Appleseed Clinics to hone your skills even further. Appleseed is a one or two day (Saturday/Sunday,) markmanship learning program that will teach you the basic skills of shooting fundementals using a rifle. You will learn Standing, Sitting and Prone positions using a sling. A solid foundation, so to speak. Most Appleseeds use a 25 meter distance 'course of fire.' On occasion, you will see or find an Appleseed where an actual full distance (100, 200, 300 and 400 yard) range will be used. Another wonderful part of the Appleseed Program is that during intermissions, the instructors will teach you what happened on April 18th and 19th of the year 1775. The history of what occured on those two dates in America puts the 'why' in how we are to be able to enjoy shooting as we do, along with the freedoms we have. You'll be amazed at how much you'll learn at one of these clinics. Just lookup Appleseed Project and search for Appleseeds in your State.
If you do make the decision to attend one, look up 'things to bring to an Appleseed' and you'll be able to hit the ground running. You'll be best served by getting a good U.S.G.I. military sling, (an authentic one and not a Chinese import.) Get some 1 1/4* sling swivels and you're in business. Last I checked, the swivels made by Grovtec were made in the U.S.A.
If anyone, regardless of their abilities or disabilities, chooses to go to an Appleseed. You won't find a more accommodating venue to improve your rifle marksmanship. I've witnessed a 73 year old lady, who did all three of the Standing, Sitting and Prone stages, from a chair with a Cabella's tripod, with her scoped Ruger 10-22. She eventually shot 'Rifleman' score, (210 points or better on an Army Qualification Target, AQT,) by the end of the week, (this was at a week long Appleseed Rifleman Boot Camp.) I saw another gentleman, who had injured his back a week or two prior, and who had already been signed up to attend one of the Appleseed Rifleman Boot Camps, fire the Standing position with his AR15 normally. However, when it came time to do the Sitting and Prone stages, he did an open-leg sitting position with a longer Harris Bipod attached to his AR15. He shot 'Rifleman' score by the end of the week. Point is, that those at Appleseed will work with anybody and everbody. I find it to be one of the best programs out there to help enhance one's marksmanship.
Scott
Not sure as to your shooting experience and definitely not to take away from what you've already learned. I would suggest going to an Appleseed Marksmanship Clinic wherever you can find one. And, then attend another one or two more Appleseed Clinics to hone your skills even further. Appleseed is a one or two day (Saturday/Sunday,) markmanship learning program that will teach you the basic skills of shooting fundementals using a rifle. You will learn Standing, Sitting and Prone positions using a sling. A solid foundation, so to speak. Most Appleseeds use a 25 meter distance 'course of fire.' On occasion, you will see or find an Appleseed where an actual full distance (100, 200, 300 and 400 yard) range will be used. Another wonderful part of the Appleseed Program is that during intermissions, the instructors will teach you what happened on April 18th and 19th of the year 1775. The history of what occured on those two dates in America puts the 'why' in how we are to be able to enjoy shooting as we do, along with the freedoms we have. You'll be amazed at how much you'll learn at one of these clinics. Just lookup Appleseed Project and search for Appleseeds in your State.
If you do make the decision to attend one, look up 'things to bring to an Appleseed' and you'll be able to hit the ground running. You'll be best served by getting a good U.S.G.I. military sling, (an authentic one and not a Chinese import.) Get some 1 1/4* sling swivels and you're in business. Last I checked, the swivels made by Grovtec were made in the U.S.A.
If anyone, regardless of their abilities or disabilities, chooses to go to an Appleseed. You won't find a more accommodating venue to improve your rifle marksmanship. I've witnessed a 73 year old lady, who did all three of the Standing, Sitting and Prone stages, from a chair with a Cabella's tripod, with her scoped Ruger 10-22. She eventually shot 'Rifleman' score, (210 points or better on an Army Qualification Target, AQT,) by the end of the week, (this was at a week long Appleseed Rifleman Boot Camp.) I saw another gentleman, who had injured his back a week or two prior, and who had already been signed up to attend one of the Appleseed Rifleman Boot Camps, fire the Standing position with his AR15 normally. However, when it came time to do the Sitting and Prone stages, he did an open-leg sitting position with a longer Harris Bipod attached to his AR15. He shot 'Rifleman' score by the end of the week. Point is, that those at Appleseed will work with anybody and everbody. I find it to be one of the best programs out there to help enhance one's marksmanship.
Scott
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To all who see this,
If you happen to be using an original military rifle from a foreign country, (Mausers, etc.) and anything with 'original' 1 inch sling swivels, you probably desire to keep said rifle as original as possible. An easy solution to adapting a U.S.G.I. 1 1/4 inch sling is to take the metal sling clip that comes with these slings and trim an 1/8 of an inch off each side of this clip. When at your area gunshow, look for extras of the sling clips as you will need an extra one for each rifle and repeat the above modification. Smooth your cuts on the metal sling clips with a file and apply a little Birchwood Casey Cold Blue or Cold Black. Heat your re-blued or blackened sides of your clips with a flame, (torch or grill lighter) to allow the blue or black to adhere better, (old trick I learned from a gunsmith that seems to work) and you're in business. You now have a rifle that still retains its original 1 inch sling swivel loops, that is now utilizing the most useful sling ever made. For hunting situations, be sure to add some Gaffer's tape in an Earth tone color, (to help silence the metal sling clips to the rifle"s metal sling swivels metal to metal contact) to avoid any extra noises when carrying the rifle.
Scott
If you happen to be using an original military rifle from a foreign country, (Mausers, etc.) and anything with 'original' 1 inch sling swivels, you probably desire to keep said rifle as original as possible. An easy solution to adapting a U.S.G.I. 1 1/4 inch sling is to take the metal sling clip that comes with these slings and trim an 1/8 of an inch off each side of this clip. When at your area gunshow, look for extras of the sling clips as you will need an extra one for each rifle and repeat the above modification. Smooth your cuts on the metal sling clips with a file and apply a little Birchwood Casey Cold Blue or Cold Black. Heat your re-blued or blackened sides of your clips with a flame, (torch or grill lighter) to allow the blue or black to adhere better, (old trick I learned from a gunsmith that seems to work) and you're in business. You now have a rifle that still retains its original 1 inch sling swivel loops, that is now utilizing the most useful sling ever made. For hunting situations, be sure to add some Gaffer's tape in an Earth tone color, (to help silence the metal sling clips to the rifle"s metal sling swivels metal to metal contact) to avoid any extra noises when carrying the rifle.
Scott
Ergonomics on those Swedes like the M41B I used "suck big time" for a guy like me that is 5'7"! It is the most uncomfortable rifle to shoot I've come across, especially offhand. At least the recoil is mild though.
You could buy an old leather cheek riser or one of those cheap ones with the stackable foam inserts for better cheek weld.
What worked for me was using a PAST recoil shield and holding the rifle firmly into my shoulder.
I shot mine in Vintage Silhouette comps so I had a spotter reporting to me where I hit. That might be the best thing for you to try.
Are you able to use a bag or something to support the barrel? A lot of pics I've seen of German snipers during WWII show them resting their rifle on something (grassy knoll, rock, log, tornister) instead of using their hand for support, and that was with the rather shorter Kar98k. Generally speaking they either have their hand resting atop the stock as a cheekrest or using it like a rear monopod. That might help a little, at least in terms of support or cheek weld, and give you a little more control over the recoil even if it doesn't fix your issue completely.
@sandwarrior I assumed vintage sniper competition. Rules (pp. 18, 19, 53-61) I found said a sandbag would be OK for supported prone (and with a long rifle like a Swede I'd advocate that) but possibly not the hand position I suggested. Never done any competitive shooting myself, so I'm not sure what is 100% in compliance with the rules.
Yes, supported prone. Not "unsupported prone".
I can tell you wrestling a Swede in unsupported is a trick for me considering my body size/type. Supported, I do pretty well with mine at 400 and 600. The rifle itself is quite accurate.
Agreed. I'm about 6'1" with a build a couple of my more football-minded friends say is fitting of a linebacker and I'm sure I'd have problems handling a Swede my own self. Tried a prone position with my unscoped Swede, scoped M91/30, and unscoped Kar98k when I got home from the gym earlier. There is a lot of rifle sticking out with the Swede and the LOP doesn't help, either. I have no doubt all that weight and length lend themselves to accuracy, but it would definitely not be my first choice for a military-issue boltgun.
Thus why they went to the T-38. A lot easier to handle than the full length M1896.?
The Vintage Sniper match is 10 shots at 300 yds and 10 shots at 600 yds. There is a time limit of 20 sec target exposure for each shot. I'm shooting a Swedish Mauser , M96 with a 4# Weaver scope. We can use a club supplied sand bag in the front but nothing in the rear,except shoulder or support hand.We can't ground the support hand. My problem is the rifle hops,(feels like it cartwheels ),LOL up and left. I've shot F class a bit and got to where the rifle would come straight back and I could see bullet impact. This Swede with the high sope mount is not working out. I also have a after market leather high cheek piece , that is allowed by the rules. I've tried holding on, holding on for dear life, and almost free recoil. Haven't found the sweet spot yet. The load off the bench is a good load.Yes.
