• We're live!

    We've got the homepage updated and subscriptions are now managed through HideTV. If you run into any bugs please contact alexj-12 or use our contact form for help!

    ENTER HIDETV VIEW THREAD

VLD's in mag feed .308

LongArm

Problem Solver
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 30, 2007
1,206
21
Corpus Christi, Texas
I am currently looking to reload .308 with the Berger VLD's for hunting. I have heard mixed info on seating in the lands and .003-.004 off the lands. <span style="font-weight: bold">What is the biggest/best VLD that can be run in a AICS mag for .308?</span> I Have a mag length of 2.90" to work with. Due to running a mag sys I am going to try them seated around 2.80"-2.90". Any info on loads and experience will help.

Thanks
LongArm
 
Re: VLD's in mag feed .308

Most of the Berger VLD type bullets I have loaded like to be stuck out there a LONG way. If I remember correctly, I'm shooting .010" off the lands and hand feeding each round.

Maybe you need to listen to someone else for this one.
 
Re: VLD's in mag feed .308

168's vld's jumping around .06 shoot decent out of my FN SPR. Mag box is around 2.85 and lands with this bullet are around 2.91 if I remember correctly. They seem to hold groups in the mid .6's to low .7's

I have not loaded any to the lands in that rifle to see how they would shoot, so I dont know if I am giving up much on the accuracy end.
 
Re: VLD's in mag feed .308

I have a Shilen barrel that is reamed yo SAAMI specs probably like yours is. My mag box is 2.9". So May be I can load them just under 2.9" and be close.

How much bigger are the 175/185 VLD's than the 168"s
 
Re: VLD's in mag feed .308

LongArm,
Try loading some 185 VLDs and jumping them a LOOONNGG way. There has been some research done by Jerry Tienery? that shows that the VLDs need to be jammed into the lands or jumped anywhere between .080 and .120. Yes, those numbers are correct. I found that my tactical rifle likes them jumped around .110. At that length, I can feed them out of the magazine and they shoot as well as they do jammed. I just don't get the great velocity. The accuracy is incredible and they work awfully well on deer. Brian Litz and I shot the palma match at Camp Perry this year together and we discussed this in length while in the pits. In my opinion, the 185 is the BEST VLD going. Brian explained to me that all the VLDs up to the 175 gr VLD have the same length boattail. The 185 starts the longer boattail that is found on the 185 through 210 gr. bullet. That longer boattail is an advantage ballistically speaking.
 
Re: VLD's in mag feed .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LongArm,
Try loading some 185 VLDs and jumping them a LOOONNGG way. There has been some research done by Jerry Tienery? that shows that the VLDs need to be jammed into the lands or jumped anywhere between .080 and .120. Yes, those numbers are correct. I found that my tactical rifle likes them jumped around .110. At that length, I can feed them out of the magazine and they shoot as well as they do jammed. I just don't get the great velocity. The accuracy is incredible and they work awfully well on deer. Brian Litz and I shot the palma match at Camp Perry this year together and we discussed this in length while in the pits. In my opinion, the 185 is the BEST VLD going. Brian explained to me that all the VLDs up to the 175 gr VLD have the same length boattail. The 185 starts the longer boattail that is found on the 185 through 210 gr. bullet. That longer boattail is an advantage ballistically speaking. </div></div>

OK now we are getting somewhere!! What is the COAL of your bullets? The 185 (1.378") is actually longer than the 190 (1.370"). I was thinking about the 190 cause it was shorter. I am going hunting for elk in Co. and I needed a combo that would work on elk at extended ranges. I am running AI mags. What do you think about running the 190 or 210 VLD's out of AI mags?
 
Re: VLD's in mag feed .308

I believe this is the info Matt88 refers to:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

Background

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifles. It can be difficult to get the VLD to group well (poor accuracy).

For years we encouraged shooters to use a base of cartridge to end of bearing surface OAL (I will use the term COAL to represent this dimension) which allows the VLD to touch the rifling or to be jammed in the rifling. This provided excellent results for many shooters but there were others who did not achieve top performance with the VLD jammed in their rifling. These shooters were left with the belief that the VLD bullets just won’t shoot in their rifle.

Other groups of shooters were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling. Some of these shooters knew that at some point during a target competition they will be asked to remove a live round. With the bullet jammed in the rifling there was a good chance the bullet will stick in the barrel which could result in an action full of powder. This is hard on a shooter during a match.

Yet another group of shooters who were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling are those who feed through magazines or have long throats. Magazine length rounds loaded with VLDs could not touch the lands in most rifles (this is the specific reason that for years we said VLD bullets do not work well in a magazine). When a rifle could be single fed but was chambered with a long throat a loaded round that was as long as possible still would not touch the rifling.

Until recently, shooters who suffered from these realities were believed to be unable to achieve success with VLD bullets. Admittedly, we would receive the occasional report that a rifle shot very well when jumping the VLD bullets but we discounted these reports as anomalies. It was not until the VLD became very popular as a game hunting bullet that we were then able to learn the truth about getting the VLD bullets to shoot well in a large majority of rifles.

After we proved that the Berger VLD bullets are consistently and exceptionally capable of putting game down quickly we started promoting the VLD to hunters. We were nervous at first as we believe the VLD needed to be in the rifling to shoot well and we also knew that most hunters use a magazine and SAMMI chambers. Our ears were wide open as the feedback was received. It was surprising to hear that most shooters described precision results by saying “this is the best my rifle has ever shot.”

We scratched our heads about this for awhile until we started getting feedback from hunters who were competition shooters as well. Many were the same guys who were telling us for years that the VLDs shoot great when jumped. Since a much larger number of shooters were using the VLD bullets with a jump we started comparing all the feedback and have discovered the common characteristics in successful reports which gave us the information needed to get VLD working in your rifle. We were able to relay these characteristics to several shooters who were struggling with VLD bullets. Each shooter reported success after applying our recommendation.


Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

Solution

The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a “sweet spot”. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.

Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won’t be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.

Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).

Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don’t give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
1..010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
2..040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3..080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4..120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
1..010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
2..050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3..090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4..130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Master Bulletsmith
</div></div>
Source (Linked from Berger's site): http://02b0516.netsolhost.com/blog1/?p=43
 
  • Like
Reactions: camocorvette
Re: VLD's in mag feed .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LongArm,
Try loading some 185 VLDs and jumping them a LOOONNGG way. There has been some research done by Jerry Tienery? that shows that the VLDs need to be jammed into the lands or jumped anywhere between .080 and .120. Yes, those numbers are correct. I found that my tactical rifle likes them jumped around .110. At that length, I can feed them out of the magazine and they shoot as well as they do jammed. I just don't get the great velocity. The accuracy is incredible and they work awfully well on deer. Brian Litz and I shot the palma match at Camp Perry this year together and we discussed this in length while in the pits. In my opinion, the 185 is the BEST VLD going. Brian explained to me that all the VLDs up to the 175 gr VLD have the same length boattail. The 185 starts the longer boattail that is found on the 185 through 210 gr. bullet. That longer boattail is an advantage ballistically speaking. </div></div>

Thanks for the call, it helped a lot. I am going to try the 185's and varget as well as the 210's and reloader 17 with the 210's at approx mag length.
 
Re: VLD's in mag feed .308

I am having bullet seating issues. I am using Lee deluxe collet seating dies. The dies are not the same angle as the VLD's and the VLD's are longer, which makes the bullet collet grab onto the nose due to the difference in angle and length of the bullet.

What are y'all using to seat these VLD's??????? I ahev tried Lee and RCBS 308 win dies, both put rings on the nose of the bullet and grab it and make it hard to remover the die without taking the bullet out of the case with it.

ANY THOUGHTS
 
Re: VLD's in mag feed .308

What Wil said....cant go wrong with the scenar...seems to be un-picky. Sent my Redding seating die back to Redding with a 155 scenar and they built a seating cone custom for that bullet. The old one was leaving a ring part way up the ogive. No big deal but why not have it perfect?....grin!
 
Re: VLD's in mag feed .308

seater plug shoould index off ogive or there abouts

To avoid point hitting bottom of plug before this happens, simply drill hole in base of plug

done deal
 
Re: VLD's in mag feed .308

I read this thread and call bullshit on the long jumping of VLDs. I had a few pieces of prepped brass and a new box of 185 Berger VLDs that I wanted to try. Loaded 8 rounds Lapua brass match prepped FGMM primers 42.5 gr Varget. 4 jammed in to the lands 4 set to mag length 2.887 that is a .059 jump in my rifle.
4 jammed at a 100 yards produced a .416"group 4 jumped at a 100 yards produced a .164" group

I was wrong in that set of reloads. I will be playing around with this some more, things are looking promising. I wanted to check the velocity but I thought I was wasting my time by just trying this experiment. Sorry for doubting you Matt88 your info is good I just had to prove it to myself.
 
Re: VLD's in mag feed .308

Just an FYI: Sinclair sells a "VLD" seater stem for the Redding Die's. Or you just drill it as Karl says
laugh.gif
 
Re: VLD's in mag feed .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Karl2U</div><div class="ubbcode-body">seater plug shoould index off ogive or there abouts

To avoid point hitting bottom of plug before this happens, simply drill hole in base of plug

done deal </div></div>
There is a hole drilled in the Lee Precision dies but the angle for the ogive is wrong. Lee will make a custom one for $8.00 so I'll be sending them a couple of bullets and $8.00
 
  • Like
Reactions: camocorvette