Rifle Scopes Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

[ranger1183]

I did both the SH and Google searches and came up empty. So here goes.

SWFA lists the Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50 with two different EBR-2 reticles. The standard EBR-2 and a very similar looking reticle named the EBR-2B Reticle. Because I can't zoom in and out on these two reticles, I don't know to what extent they are different. Anyone know the exact difference between these two?

http://swfa.com/Vortex-5-20x50-Razor-HD-35mm-Rifle-Scope-P48281.aspx

http://swfa.com/Vortex-5-20x50-Razor-HD-35mm-Rifle-Scope-P42753.aspx

 

[AustinN4]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because I can't zoom in and out on these two reticles, I don't know to what extent they are different. Anyone know the exact difference between these two?</div></div>
If you click on the links you posted and then click on the reticles shown, it will zoom and you can see the difference.

 

[JCB]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

This is interesting. I had not seen an EBR-2B listed as an option on Vortex's site. Just an EBR-1, EBR-2, and an EBR-3. It appears the numerical markings for the mils on the vertical stadia are positioned differently. Does the EBR-2B really exist and are there other differences?

 

[arcticeddie]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

The reticule in the first link looks bolder. Maybe that's what the B suffix means.

 

[Guns4570]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

Look at them again...the 2B has the horizontal axis almost dead center in the scope and the 2 has it a bit highter in the upper half along with the numbering is different too. B numbers down the veritical axis and the 2 has them on the outside of the tree's edges. I like both options. B for the 800 yard 308 and the 2 for the longer range shots. Hadn't seen the before this thread...but I like it and good going Vortex.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

I think the 2B is shown at a higher magnification, since you dont see the bold lines outside the crosshair. That looks to be the only reason it seems bolder.

Wonder why vortex doesnt list them on their website.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wonder why vortex doesnt list them on their website. </div></div>

This is speculation, but I'm thinking that somebody let the cat out of the bag before Shot. IIRC, Frank alluded to it in this thread about Leupold:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=954748&page=2


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At the Bash Scott had the improved EBR, where they adjusted the tone of the hold over section and it looked really good. Vortex has a great reticle. </div></div>
John

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

Ahhhh. I do like how every line is numbered on the lower part of elevation, I find myself counting sometimes when I dont think I should have to, but thats probably because I havent had it more than a month yet.

I wonder if the holdover dots are any darker? That is a huge compromise area, because right now they are very difficult to see, but I dont know if I would want them to be any more visible.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do like how every line is numbered on the lower part of elevation, I find myself counting sometimes when I dont think I should have to, but thats probably because I havent had it more than a month yet.</div></div>

I'm mixed on this. There are times when I hold on the reticle for elevation, because I've run out of travel, AND hold for wind, say a half-mil.. the numbers are now in the way... BUT like you say now I can *quickly* know which elevation hash is which...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if the holdover dots are any darker? That is a huge compromise area, because right now they are very difficult to see, but I dont know if I would want them to be any more visible. </div></div>

I use the holdover dots on my EBR2 for precision aiming points (dial down/right 1 mil). I don't want them any bigger.

John

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

Run out of elevation?!?!

What is it on?

Im like 10 mils off the bottom and still have more than enough.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Run out of elevation?!?!

What is it on?

Im like 10 mils off the bottom and still have more than enough. </div></div>

300WM... When we shoot Montana sized distances

we need all the elevation we can get.

I have a 40 moa rail and have had to hold over 5 mil. Can you guess the *rough* distance?

John

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

Good grief, so your adjusting probably 30-35mils then? Gotta be 2000 or damn near.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

Yeah, 35 mil.

IIRC, that time was 2300. I was shooting with MontanaMarine out east a few weeks ago at 1900+ and 2000+ and the numbers *definitely* would have been in the way that day, as the wind hold was almost exactly 1/2 mil.

John

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

Well, Im hoping when the PST arrives, and the Razor makes its way to my upcoming 338 I wont have any problems with elevation out to 2000+ with only a 20moa, although I may just get a Farrell 30 or 40 just to be safe.

PS, Ill remember your name for when I hopefully move your way from Ohio and need some shooting buddies!

 

[jrob300]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

Which bullet are you shooting? If you're shooting 300 Bergers at close to 3000 fps, you should have no problem. The day we shot 2300, I shot with a guy shooting 300's. Our first shots were at 1760 yds and I could not believe how little elevation he needed. IIRC he was something like 50 moa, which is roughly 15 mil! That thing was a laser!

John

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

Im going to try the Bergers, but Ill only have 26" of tube so I probably wont get them much past 2750. And not sure if they will mag feed yet, so I may just stick with 300 Scenars.

I do need to learn to not dial so much anymore now that I have FFP, its hard to get used to actually using the reticle after so many years of dialing every elevation adjustment.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

If I have time I dial and then hold the 2nd shot adjustment.

If you're shooting much past a 1000 yds. you'll have to dial.

John

 

[Scott_at_Vortex]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

I was wondering if we would make it to SHOT before a thread came up on this. The EBR-2B is a new addition to the Razor's reticle line up. There are basically two things that are different than the standard EBR-2- the numbers were moved to the inside of the tree and the hold dots are darker. They are noticably darker, but not too dark. We will be offering both reticles as some have requested darker dots(ebr-2b) and some like the ebr-2 the way it is since the dots are light enough that they dont obscure your field of view ,but are dark enough to use when you need them. Scopes with the new EBR-2B reticle will be available to the public right after SHOT.



Scott

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

Awesome! Sounds like SWFA is going to get an earful from you guys huh Scott?

Hypothetically if one was a current Razor EBR2 owner, and decided he liked the 2B better, what would be the cost in switching?

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do like how every line is numbered on the lower part of elevation, I find myself counting sometimes when I dont think I should have to, but thats probably because I havent had it more than a month yet.</div></div>
I'm mixed on this. There are times when I hold on the reticle for elevation, because I've run out of travel, AND hold for wind, say a half-mil.. the numbers are now in the way... BUT like you say now I can *quickly* know which elevation hash is which...</div></div>
This is my concern exactly. I <span style="text-decoration: underline">probably</span> prefer to take a wee longer looking at the elevation hash number - but <span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span> lose those 1/4 and 1/2 hash dots. This alone would probably keep me with EBR-2.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if the holdover dots are any darker? That is a huge compromise area, because right now they are very difficult to see, but I dont know if I would want them to be any more visible. </div></div>
I use the holdover dots on my EBR2 for precision aiming points (dial down/right 1 mil). I don't want them any bigger.</div></div>
I'm about to do the same. I don't know if bigger dots would screw up precision aiming...

Do you find those Christmas tree dots usable at all at lower (say below 12x) magnifications (on the original EBR-2)?

Choices, choices...

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

Guys,

I'd like some words of experience & wisdom from those who practice holding off on the reticle such as EBR-2, EBR-2B or Horus. My question is about EBR-2B:

1. EBR-2B moved the numbers inside so one can see & use them instantly (speed advantage).
2. Numbers on EBR-2B are now occupying the place of two columns of aiming dots (can't hold precisely in those spots any more - disadvantage).

In your opinion, is the speed gained in (1) worth losing the ability to precisely hold off as in (2)? How does it all play?

Tnx!

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

I can say I would be sad to see Vortex completely discontinue the EBR-2, as I think that would be a bad business move on their part.

The reason you stated is a very good reason that some people would not want to buy the scope if the 2B was the only reticle offered.

I have the EBR-2 and would not have it swapped even if it was free.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

The majority of my shooting is LR and ELR, so to me, the numbers On the EBR2B are a bit of a distraction and have a high probability of covering my target in a holdover with wind call. Yes, we shoot far enough to need holdover on a Razor, and that is with a 40moa base.

John

 

[RODENT]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

One is definitely a higher magnification. The EBR-2B is on 20X. I have 2 of these scopes and had the same question to Vortex because both pics are advertised. There is no EBR-2B.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The majority of my shooting is LR and ELR, so to me, the numbers on the EBR-2B are a bit of a distraction and have a high probability of covering my target in a holdover with wind call. Yes, we shoot far enough to need holdover on a Razor, and that is with a 40moa base.

</div></div>
I'm with you - also mounted Razor on a 40moa base.

You're confirming my fears wrt. EBR-2B.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can say I would be sad to see Vortex completely discontinue the EBR-2, as I think that would be a bad business move on their part.</div></div>
I concur. Scott, you're listening - right?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason you stated is a very good reason that some people would not want to buy the scope if the 2B was the only reticle offered.

I have the EBR-2 and would not have it swapped even if it was free.</div></div>
I see... To me the dots on EBR-2 are too faint - but I'm not itching to replace them with numbers that (with high probability can) obscure my target!

I wonder why Vortex moved the numbers inside (guessing: patent issue with Horus???), and wonder whether they'd come up with EBR-2B2 with darker dots and the numbers where they belong - i.e. <span style="text-decoration: underline">outside</span>!

 

[geometro]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

ERB-2 reticle:

http://www.vortexoptics.com/uploads/sub_razor-hd_ebr-2_details.jpg

ERB-2B reticle:

http://www.vortexoptics.com/uploads/sub_razor-hd_ebr-2b_details.jpg

It's a pity they are drawn to different scales so it's difficult to make a comparison.

Somebody with the right software may be able to scale them to the same dimesions or even overlay them for an even better compaison.

The darker dots probably work better at lower magnification.

An awkward solution for numbers obscuring the target might be to dial in more windage and hold over at an actual dot.

 

[RODENT]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: geometro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The darker dots probably work better at lower magnification.</div></div>

The representation of the dots is there but they are not invasive at all AND they work. You can easily see your hits and call your corrections.

 

[Scott_at_Vortex]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can say I would be sad to see Vortex completely discontinue the EBR-2, as I think that would be a bad business move on their part.

The reason you stated is a very good reason that some people would not want to buy the scope if the 2B was the only reticle offered.

I have the EBR-2 and would not have it swapped even if it was free. </div></div>Getting rid of the ebr-2 was really never even discussed. The EBR-2B is simply an additional reticle option.



Scott

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

Thank you Scott! I was given that info by a misguided friend who thought he learned that from Shot Show.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scott_at_Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Getting rid of the ebr-2 was really never even discussed. The EBR-2B is simply an additional reticle option.

Scott </div></div>
Great! I knew you won't let us down.

Any comment on the feasibility of moving the elevation numbers to the outside (where they belong)?

 

[rksimple]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

Whether or not the numbers belong way out or right next to the main crosshair is a matter of opinion. Wildly popular reticles like the GAP and GenIIXR have them right next to the main hash mark. For the majority of COFs I shoot where holding is necessary, having the numbers close makes it much easier to quickly identify where I am. When those same types of COFs are shot from improvised positions, having the numbers close is doubly important...more so with busy backgrounds. YMMV.

 

[noz455sd]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

I want to go shooting with jrob

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SuppressorJunkie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I want to go shooting with jrob </div></div>

+1

 

[jrob300]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SuppressorJunkie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I want to go shooting with jrob </div></div>

+1 </div></div>

You get out to MT, you shoot me a PM.

We currently have steel to 1500, but we're going to reverse COF and hope to get 2000+. If we go out east I know a couple spots where we can shoot as far as you can see.

John

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Vortex EBR-2 vs. EBR-2B Reticle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whether or not the numbers belong way out or right next to the main crosshair is a matter of opinion.</div></div>
Not exactly, as it's not "given everything else is equal" case. It depends on whether the numbers block/replace some usable feature (like 1/2 mil dot on EBR-2B) or not (see below).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wildly popular reticles like the GAP and GenIIXR have them right next to the main hash mark.</div></div>
Well, yes - but not quite! On Gen 2 XR reticle the numbers are indeed next to the main hash mark - <span style="font-weight: bold">but</span> (a) they are <span style="text-decoration: underline">very</span> small, and (b) they are not obscuring/replacing any hash mark or dot on the reticle - thus not interfering with precise aiming using those dots/hash-marks.

GAP reticle has no Christmas tree, period - so the numbers can be anywhere: they can't obscure any useful features of the reticle as there are none to begin with.

On the other hand, "wildly popular" reticles like Horus (e.g. H-25 and H-37) have the numbers outside the drop-down tree. Go figure.

I personally strongly prefer EBR-2 to Gen 2 XR or GAP, though it doesn't matter in this conversation.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the majority of COFs I shoot where holding is necessary, having the numbers close makes it much easier to quickly identify where I am. When those same types of COFs are shot from improvised positions, having the numbers close is doubly important...more so with busy backgrounds.</div></div>
Does that means you find no need for holding 1/2 mil on the reticle? But typically hold 3/4 mil or more?

Not sure what COF and what kind of rifle you use your Razor with EBR reticle. IMHO on an LR/ELR bolt-action rifle (probably caliber higher than 308) numbers are more beneficial outside. On a rifle with higher rate of fire and lower effective range - probably speed matters more, and having the numbers inside might help.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YMMV. </div></div>
Indeed.