Rifle Scopes Vortex Gen II Razor and Spuhr ISMS Mount?

[devildawg2531]

I have a Masterpiece Arms MPA BA 6.5 CM being built and have been researching the mount and scope. This rifle will be a for range use / distance competition / maybe a little stationary hunting but it weighs a lot and I have other stuff for hunting. I want to get out to 1200 yards with this.

Budget for scope and rings is around $2500. Must be FFP and mil / mil as that is what I am used to.

I am leaning towards Vortex Razor Gen II MRAD 4.5 - 27 x 56 with the EBR- 7 C Reticle.
Leaning towards the Spuhr ISMS 1 piece 34 mm mount.

Is the Spuhr 1 piece mount worth the increased price over Seekins rings? The MPA rifle will have 20 MOA on the rail. Should I get the Spuhr mount with 20 MOA or 44 MOA? So 40 MOA or 64 MOA total?
Any changes to the scope and mount recommended? Thanks!

 

[Kadams1563]

I personally do not see the Spuhr being worth it over a set of Seekikns rings BUT there are many people who do and think the Spuhr is the greatest mount ever in history. I just dont see it though.

Get a 20 MOA base and rings or zero MOA mount.

 

[M77]

get a spuhr 4602 which is 20moa/6mil , you'll then have 28 usable mills from a 100 zero

 

[devildawg2531]

If the rifle rail is already 20 MOA then wouldn't the Spuhr 4602 20 MOA put it a total of 40 MOA?

 

[lte82]

Buy the 4001 or 4006 if you have a 20 moa base.

 

[devildawg2531]

why? not following the logic..
wouldn't around 40 MOA be optimal at 1000 + with 6.5CM?
thanks

 

[samb300]

why? not following the logic..
wouldn't around 40 MOA be optimal at 1000 + with 6.5CM?
thanks

I see no reason to add elevation to a 20 MOA rail with a 6.5 creed. You should have ~22 mils of useable elevation with a Gen 2 Razor and a 20 MOA base.

1000yds is only ~8.5 mils

1200 yds is only ~12 mils

Unless your everyday shooting is at a mile, you'll be better off keeping the elevation travel of the scope more in the center of the optic versus having it bottomed out for a 100 yd zero.

I've been using a Gen 2 Razor on an AI with a 20 MOA base and 0 MOA Spuhr for 5 years with no issues. Furthest I've shot at a match was 1375 yds, but I've taken a poke at a mile and the scope was right at max travel.

 

[lte82]

...you'll be better off keeping the elevation travel of the scope more in the center of the optic versus having it bottomed out for a 100 yd zero.

Yep. Optically scopes perform better when in the middle of their travel range, and tracking is going to be more consistent when springs aren’t maxed out in either direction. I’m sure someone is going to say theirs tracks perfectly at the far ends of travel and that’s great, but why do it if you don’t have to?

 

[devildawg2531]

Buy the 4001 or 4006 if you have a 20 moa base.

Thanks .. checking on this now and your recommendation makes sense. For the 34 mm Scope isn't the flat MOA Spuhr the 4002?

 

[devildawg2531]

I see no reason to add elevation to a 20 MOA rail with a 6.5 creed. You should have ~22 mils of useable elevation with a Gen 2 Razor and a 20 MOA base.

1000yds is only ~8.5 mils

1200 yds is only ~12 mils

Unless your everyday shooting is at a mile, you'll be better off keeping the elevation travel of the scope more in the center of the optic versus having it bottomed out for a 100 yd zero.

I've been using a Gen 2 Razor on an AI with a 20 MOA base and 0 MOA Spuhr for 5 years with no issues. Furthest I've shot at a match was 1375 yds, but I've taken a poke at a mile and the scope was right at max travel.

,
Thank you this makes total sense. Appreciate you explaining this. Will go with the flat top Spuhr since the rifle has 20 MOA.

Is the GEN II Razor the best choice in the $2k price range?

 

[lte82]

Thanks .. checking on this now and your recommendation makes sense. For the 34 mm Scope isn't the flat MOA Spuhr the 4002?

Yes. 4001 and 4006 are as well. They are all just different heights. I think the 4006 is the sweet spot personally, and the only reason I’d go 4002 is if I have a full hand guard to clear like on a AIAX.

 

[OneMoreNoMore]

I personally do not see the Spuhr being worth it over a set of Seekikns rings BUT there are many people who do and think the Spuhr is the greatest mount ever in history. I just dont see it though.

Get a 20 MOA base and rings or zero MOA mount.

I agree, bought a used Gen2 off the hide with a set of seekins rings for $1500 shipped and the scope looks perfect. I have a couple sphurs and unless you need the extra mounting options they offer or need an absolute bulletproof setup then go for it. But you could save $1000 on your optic budget on a gently used one probably.

 

[AznTactical]

For reference I could not get a zero with a 20moa mount and 20moa rail (Razor gen ii and MPA mount). My sweet spot was approx 32-34 moa. I was going to order a custom 10moa mount but it was 4X's the cost over a 0 moa rail that was in stock.
I love Spuhr because they're the cream of the crop. Who doesn't love a Ferrari right?
I just stuck with MPA because I had an extra one laying around. I'm a unimount fan because I don't have to lap 2 piece rings. Doesn't matter how good your rings are especially if your picatinny rail's tolerances are high on 1 end and low on the other end (but still within tolerance).

 

[devildawg2531]

For reference I could not get a zero with a 20moa mount and 20moa rail (Razor gen ii and MPA mount). My sweet spot was approx 32-34 moa. I was going to order a custom 10moa mount but it was 4X's the cost over a 0 moa rail that was in stock.
I love Spuhr because they're the cream of the crop. Who doesn't love a Ferrari right?
I just stuck with MPA because I had an extra one laying around. I'm a unimount fan because I don't have to lap 2 piece rings. Doesn't matter how good your rings are especially if your picatinny rail's tolerances are high on 1 end and low on the other end (but still within tolerance).

Good info as I looked at the MPA mount as well as it's about half of the price of Spuhr. The MPA mount has a lifetime warranty as well and since its going on an MPA rifle made me think. How does a unimount fix rail tolerance issues with one side higher vs the other on the picatinny? To my non engineering brain the unimount would still be higher or lower if the rail its mounted to was not level.

Thanks

 

[AznTactical]

How does a unimount fix rail tolerance issues with one side higher vs the other on the picatinny?

A unimount doesn't fix tolerances from the picatinny rail. It just helps prevent "spreading" the differences or tolerance variances into your scope. We call it tolerance stackup. For example a picatinny's flatness tolerance is .005" so that means 1 out of your 2 rings could sit .005" higher or lower than the other. This .005" doesn't account for the ring's machining tolerances either. Since an optic is a precision instrument I don't want to spread the tolerance variance into the optic's tube.
If separate rings are a must I always recommend lapping or at the minimum check concentricity.
Picture below is an exaggerated scenario. Pretend my 2 piece rings are identical but my picatinny rail's tolerances are on the opposite ends of their tolerance range (mil-std-1913).

To add to this discussion depending on scope height a unimount is not possible. I think Badger Ordnance sells the lowest unimounts available. I purchased Seekins PMR low rings and had to lap them.

 

[AznTactical]

Ever since I started lapping my 2 piece rings or buying quality unimounts I stopped getting those dreaded scope ring witness marks on them too.

 

[Kadams1563]

Oh lord. Stop worrying about rings and lapping them that shit is for the birds. I have been buying Vortex or Seekins rings for awhile and after several pairs non of them have caused any problems. You buy good equipment and you don’t have to worry about it.

I can go get a picture of probably 20 rifle all with two price rings and not a singke
One of them has been lapped because they all have quality rings in them.

don’t buy shit and you’ll be alright.

 

[elmuzzlebreak]

Seriously with modern machining and quality there is no reason to lap your rings...ever! If you get a quality action or quality base you don't have to worry about your pic rail either (in other words don't buy the wish.com or amazon specials)

 

[AznTactical]

Oh lord. Stop worrying about rings and lapping them that shit is for the birds.

To each is your own. I work in design engineering so my bird is definitely different then yours. Have a good day.

 

[CavReconScout]

I have a Spuhr mount, Seekins rings, and MPA mounts. All work, all look good. Don’t settle, get what you really want or you will always regret it. FYI this is a Chronus BTR in a MPA mount on a 30moa base on my Vudoo 22. Similar form factor to what you are thinking.

 

[Sebrock]

I have a Masterpiece Arms MPA BA 6.5 CM being built and have been researching the mount and scope. This rifle will be a for range use / distance competition / maybe a little stationary hunting but it weighs a lot and I have other stuff for hunting. I want to get out to 1200 yards with this.

Budget for scope and rings is around $2500. Must be FFP and mil / mil as that is what I am used to.

I am leaning towards Vortex Razor Gen II MRAD 4.5 - 27 x 56 with the EBR- 7 C Reticle.
Leaning towards the Spuhr ISMS 1 piece 34 mm mount.

Is the Spuhr 1 piece mount worth the increased price over Seekins rings? The MPA rifle will have 20 MOA on the rail. Should I get the Spuhr mount with 20 MOA or 44 MOA? So 40 MOA or 64 MOA total?
Any changes to the scope and mount recommended? Thanks!

I have the exact same set up - a MPA Luglock in 6.5CM and same scope. I had the Vortex PM rings at 1.26 inches and am getting the Sphur mount which is .09 inches higher and therefore will give me a little more elevation. The way the scope is set up now with the lower vortex rings - I can get out to 1 mile with the bottom of the reticle. Never shooting past that with this rifle so its a waste to put more elevation on the base of the scope.

 

[ChrisH94]

I see no reason to add elevation to a 20 MOA rail with a 6.5 creed. You should have ~22 mils of useable elevation with a Gen 2 Razor and a 20 MOA base.

1000yds is only ~8.5 mils

1200 yds is only ~12 mils

Unless your everyday shooting is at a mile, you'll be better off keeping the elevation travel of the scope more in the center of the optic versus having it bottomed out for a 100 yd zero.

I've been using a Gen 2 Razor on an AI with a 20 MOA base and 0 MOA Spuhr for 5 years with no issues. Furthest I've shot at a match was 1375 yds, but I've taken a poke at a mile and the scope was right at max travel.

Hi, I was reading through this old post and I have a similar setup but need some advice. I have a Badger ordnance 30moa rail and im wondering if the 1.18" Spuhr SP-4001c will be enough elevation or should I go 1.35"? Thanks in advance!