Rifle Scopes Vortex PST cut them some slack

[TEAMSENDIT]

I have been intrigued and entertained by reading all current threads going on about the viper pst. what i don't understand is what everybody expected. for gods sake they are offering features that would normally cost around $2000 and they are only charging $900 or less. So of course they are not going to be of the same quality as say a nxs or uso or even vortex razor. shit the hype on this scope is/was through the roof, and after just t2o scopes with issues people are bailing on them. What did you think they were going to be flawless and every single one was going to be perfect.

Scopes are tools!!! they get the job done and you get what you pay for in most cases. if you want s&b/premier quality glass and knobs well get one. If however you just want to be able to range unknown distance targets with your reticle no matter what power you are on and make quick follow up shots because you have a ffp and matching reticle/knobs get the viper pst. Shit not everybody has 2000-3000 bucks just lying around to get those features in a high end scope. Even if the thing has a defect they have a "lifetime warranty" send it back and they will get you a new one or fix it.

That is my rant sorry i couldn't take it anymore i had to get it off my chest. I am in no way affiliated with any optics companies or manufactures. Nor do i even own a viper pst, but i will eventually, if for no other reason than a backup.

 

[ubet]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

You said exactly what I was thinking. People were crying before the fed ex man got out the door and they were on the interwebs crying cause they paid less than 900 for a scope with a ton of features and expected it to be a uso! You get all these out of the box reviews, without one shot fired with them mounted. Seems to me like buyers remorse, or people wanting to be attention whores, bragging they got a new scope before anyone else, but they don't like cause its not the same as a scope worth three times the dough.

Rant off

 

[LSOSGT1109]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

I couldn't agree more! The one thing that comes to my mind is that the PST is a brand spanking new product! I know that all my life I have always heard never buy a vehicle that is a brand new model because there are always "bugs" that have to be worked out in the new models. I'm sure there are going to be "bugs" with the PST's as well! I ordered a PST inspite of this because I know that Vortex is an outstanding company that is dedicated to pleasing it's customers and they WILL do whatever it takes to make their customers happy with their purchase. Plus it is impossible to find another scope that has all of the features of the PST at this price, not even close! I have no doubts that the PST will end up being a success!

 

[CSTactical]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

I think there was only 2 maybe 3 that had issues out of 25 units on there fist run. Not bad but not great. I know Vortex will get it all worked out. I cannot think of one FFP scope maker that did not have a few go down on there first run.

I really fell the Vortax FFP will be one of the best lower Cost FFP scopes on the market.

Mike @ CST

 

[ubet]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

Mike, I finally got my 6-24 mounted today, Oregon shooter an I are gonna go up to sac valley tomorrow and put some rounds down range with it. Thanks again its been a long wait since Feb.

 

[tt350z]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

I agree. Everybody expects them to perform as good as the $2k+ scopes. If they were that good, it'd compete with their own Razor. They have most of the features, but they still need it to be least than 50% of the price. They had to give somewhere.

I'm still going to buy one once the rush slows down.

 

[Stealff]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

Well the bright side with people bailing on their orders means that I will get the 2 4-16's I ordered that much sooner.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

as usual I am going to be the first in line to get one. I will wait until the first inventory has been used up and they have learned some lessons. I know someone has to have the newest item to come on the market but that is not me. You didn't see me in any iPhone 4 line recently.

 

[enkry]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

i think they were soo hyped that people expected a Razor with a different tube!

 

[McKinneyMike]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

You think

 

[pepperbelly]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

Think of this first issue as the beta version. I will also buy one later after the bugs get worked out. I bought a Viper to have a good scope for my .308. I plan on putting the Viper on my AR and the PST on the Savage.
I think the long wait plus the anticipation created expectations that were too high. I also think Vortex might have rushed the first issue a little to get the scopes out. It will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the rest of them in the dealers hands.

Jim

 

[BCP]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

I think a lot of people were just talking shit. You can tell when people follow up their commentary with "I'll stick to (insert favorite brand here)".

I've looked through the normal viper models and my expectations of the PST were the same glass with more features. I don't like their MAP pricing but maybe that'll go, who knows.

For the record I don't own any vortex products either, I've just been watching them since the ones I've seen were decent for the money.

It's amazing to me that it took this long for a manufacturer to come out with a scope like the PST at that price point.

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

Good call Diggler44.

 

[hydro556]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

You always hear the squeaky wheels, because they know they get the grease.

There are a lot more good than bad. It is too many failures for sure, but they will work it out.

Based on my experience with them, (Viper binos and Razor spotter) Vortex is one of the greatest things for optics consumers in a LONG time. VALUE.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

sorry about the rant guys i had a couple drinks last night and was tired of hearing people bitching about how their viper pst wasn't as good as they thought it would be (even though they had unreasonably high expectations). sometimes it just feels better to let it out.

 

[AK10mm]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

That's OK Scott,All the Vortex PST threads on here,I thought about starting a "Vortex PST vs. Countersniper" thread just so I didn't feel left out of the Vortex Craze.It could have been my post #666.

 

[270grdeerbullet]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sorry about the rant guys i had a couple drinks last night and was tired of hearing people bitching about how their viper pst wasn't as good as they thought it would be (even though they had unreasonably high expectations). sometimes it just feels better to let it out.</div></div>

I for one think the rant was justified i haven't heard form any of the people who don't have any thing to bitch about. I for one am just waithing for them to get the bugs worked out of them befor i buy one.


ok there is one good review some times it would be nice if people wrote good reviews as much as the other people bitched.

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

I didn't see it mentioned but these are filling the missing link inbetween the shitty scope and really top dollar. If customer service is half as good as I'm hearing then the only people that may be left complaining are the ones that wanted 3000 dollar glass for 900 bucks.

 

[270grdeerbullet]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

+1

 

[McKinneyMike]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

+2

 

[Oddball Six]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

+3

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

"<span style="font-weight: bold">To be or not to be – that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And, by opposing, end them." </span>

Hamlet, Act III, Scene I,

Vortex has aspirations of becoming a big player in the tactical scope market. They can and should be held responsible for the products they deliver. Outstanding CS after the sale, does not make up for indifferent QC before the sale. (for example: Leupold MK4's)

Was the PST not ready for prime time? Too early to really tell. But if there are indeed problems with around 10% of the first 25 scopes, then the PST's were not ready for delivery.

Impressions are made early, and a bad impression made early is hard to overcome. Vortex should have learned from the Razor release, that small problems, even if fixed with alacrity, can cause loss of sales and confidence, among LR shooters that can and do self tests for optical and mechanical excellence.

Anything man made, can and will break, but we are not talking about breakage. What is becoming evident from the small numbers released, is that the QC off the production line may be suspect. Can this be fixed, of course.

But using your paying end users, as a substitute for an through factory inspection and test, is not real good business in the short run.

Vortex does not need to be "cut some slack". They have the responsibility to get it right, right out the box. If they cannot, then hold the release, until you get it right.

For those that have pre-ordered and/or pre-paid for these scopes, I hope Vortex gets it right. It is not all doom and gloom, of course. But being first sometimes, is not a always a good thing.

To be, or not to be: for Vortex that could be a pressing question.

Bob

 

[teknikallysekure]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"<span style="font-weight: bold">To be or not to be – that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And, by opposing, end them." </span>

Hamlet, Act III, Scene I,

Vortex has aspirations of becoming a big player in the tactical scope market. They can and should be held responsible for the products they deliver. Outstanding CS after the sale, does not make up for indifferent QC before the sale. (for example: Leupold MK4's)

Was the PST not ready for prime time? Too early to really tell. But if there are indeed problems with around 10% of the first 25 scopes, then the PST's were not ready for delivery.

Impressions are made early, and a bad impression made early is hard to overcome. Vortex should have learned from the Razor release, that small problems, even if fixed with alacrity, can cause loss of sales and confidence, among LR shooters that can and do self tests for optical and mechanical excellence.

Anything man made, can and will break, but we are not talking about breakage. What is becoming evident from the small numbers released, is that the QC off the production line may be suspect. Can this be fixed, of course.

But using your paying end users, as a substitute for an through factory inspection and test, is not real good business in the short run.

Vortex does not need to be "cut some slack". They have the responsibility to get it right, right out the box. If they cannot, then hold the release, until you get it right.

For those that have pre-ordered and/or pre-paid for these scopes, I hope Vortex gets it right. It is not all doom and gloom, of course. But being first sometimes, is not a always a good thing.

To be, or not to be: for Vortex that could be a pressing question.

Bob

</div></div>

My sentiments exactly.

There are threads a few pages down from here with people dog piling a scope with most of the same features as this one at half the price.

People will hate on broken products publically here, and that's just the way it is. It's a good thing because it holds the company openly accountable for what they sell, and it allows people to develope a somewhat albeit shaky informed decision.

I for one don't mind the complaints.

I'm no first adopter so I appreciate reading people's honest experiences.

 

[cuffm4615]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

+4

 

[ToddM]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

I think it just goes to show how HUGE of a market gap there is between $500 and $2000 with no quality and durable FFP tactical scope options and how BAD people want to see something with some quality in that price range.

The hype was HUGE on the PST, everyone has been waiting for a good offering in this price range and vortex has been teasing guys about the scope for almost a year now. Frankly I haven't seen anyone complain that the glass was not as good as $3000 S&B glass scopes, but I have to admit I expected better glass than say leupold VX3 level glass as some have compared early units to. However, I could even be happy with that if the adjustments are accurate and repeatable and the scope was durable. That remains to be seen and time will tell as more units get tested.

The PST has the opportunity to take a massive market share of tactical scope sales, hopefully vortex will seize that opportunity. If not they will fall into the same class as leupold and IOR and in 6 months everyone will be begging someone else to make a quality offering in the $500 to $2000 range.

I have to agree that 3-4 bad scopes out of the first 25 is NOT a good ratio, that's 10-15% with problems and in any industry that's way too high. Vortex should be called to task if that's the case and it's important that people with problems can get the word out.

The real question will be was this just growing pains for the new initial release and will the quality control improve down the road or will they just become another weak offering like IOR and Leupold.

Just another lesson for people that pre-ordering isn't all it's cracked up to be for a new product.

 

[HD1911]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

Agree with BobinNC completely.

 

[Oddball Six]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

I am sorry guys, but I think that a knife analogy comes into play here.

With Benchmade, they develop a knife and then have several processes they go through to get to the point where they are at full production.

When you buy one of the first 100 or 1000 of a knife (depending on the scale of what they envision for full production of that model), it is essentially a pre-production knife. No one anticipates dings or quality issues with them but it is also understood that the odds of a problem surfacing with the first X units are higher. They still sell them. They still support them.

I think the same is applicable here. What consumer product has come onto the market that did NOT have an elevated error rate in the first batch?

XBox? PS3? Nope. Hell even the first rounds of clothes often have higher defect rates, and the manufacturing process for clothes is far simpler than for a rifle scope.

I think saying oh look 2 units had a "problem", one of which was grease not removed that will be fixed and back out in 2 days, and one of which is not yet even confirmed as it is on the way back to Vortex directly to Sam... thus it is not a quality product and they didnt do enough QC is kind of unrealistic.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

A knife with a nicked blade or stiff mechanism can still be used as a knife.
A rifle scope with a huge blob of grease on the lens can not be used as a rifle scope.

I don't mind some of the growing pains, I know that Vortex will make it right.

What concerns me is that some have compared the glass to a standard Viper series glass and report that the PST glass is not as good.
Yes, it has many features, but when you double the price, you would expect the glass quality to remain the same or better.

Once again, when you are paying workers 150 dollars a MONTH, you get this level of quality.

 

[pepperbelly]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

The comparisons of glass quality is subjective and a very small sample. As for the hype, how much was from Vortex and how much was speculation here? Did Vortex state the glass quality would be better than the Viper glass quality or was that just a hope from people waiting?
I can see the glass being the same quality as the Viper, as opposed to Razor quality, and the features being the difference in price over the Viper. How much more does a scope with FFP and illuminated reticle cost over the same model without those features?
I will also wait to see how many other PSTs out of this initial batch have problems before I have a strong opinion either way. The crap on the lense seems to be the only real QC slipup and that happens. The reticle seems to be within specs and is only a single example with that problem so far. I would like to see more than a few different scopes tested to see how many reticles are not perfectly verticle. Few people can test with that degree of accuracy.
Patience.

Jim

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

I didn't order a 6-24x because I didn't have unreasonably high expectations on the glass. I thought the 4-16x would provide more forgiving eye relief and I didn't want to push the envelope of a $800 scope.

Well, sometimes I wonder how good of glass you need. My PST looks fine to me. I was watching every move of a young cottontail from at least 2km yesterday. My rifle is only a 6.5 creedmoor so this is more than good enough for me.

The knobs, though somewhat easy to turn are quite crisp and audible. No issues for me there.
The power ring is smooth and just about right.
The side focus is much the same.
I had concerns about the illumination after reading reviews on another scope that was recently released that was too bright. I was hoping that the lowest would be all but undetectable and would allow the other settings to fall in brighter as per the setting. This is exactly how the illumitation on my scope behaves.
The scope is fairly light and compact. It amazes me that weight is not as much of an issue as click values on scopes on these heavy rifles. I guess most folks will be shooting from mowed lawns or something.
Eye relief is good and I have no complaints about the forgiveness it provides.
The reticle is better than I had hoped for.

If this scope does not allow me to dial to correct my impact I will be very surprised and dissapointed. It seems like it is up to the task for sure.

Did I miss anything?

 

[7mmRM]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

BobinNC is spot on.

 

[MER0828]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

I agree with BobinNC, regardless of price its reputation and your name...who wants to be a test bed for a manufacture with their hard earned money...not me.

 

[ubet]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

People are just bein attention whores, "look at me I got a new scope, it has a problem." Yeah the grease thing could very well have happened in route. The none tracking thing, that might be different. people at vortex are human, they ARE going to make mistakes. I bet nf has let a scope go that got under the radar. My shooting buddy has a nxs 5-22, said he thought the clarity.was similar to my pst below 20 power. Tell you one thing its better than mk4s I have looked through.

Basically, people just like to birch, you will hear bad, no good because the people that ate happy with them won't chime in as much.

 

[koz]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MER0828</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with BobinNC, regardless of price its reputation and your name...who wants to be a test bed for a manufacture with their hard earned money...not me. </div></div>

The good thing is Vortex has a great CS reputation. I would bet that any and all of these early models will be fixed at no cost to the owner.

 

[teknikallysekure]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: koz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MER0828</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with BobinNC, regardless of price its reputation and your name...who wants to be a test bed for a manufacture with their hard earned money...not me. </div></div>

The good thing is Vortex has a great CS reputation. I would bet that any and all of these early models will be fixed at no cost to the owner. </div></div>

True.

 

[bodywerks]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

I did cancel my order, but this scope is still on my short list. I have to pay off the NF I just got first, but I'm sure ill get tired of transferring it from one rifle to the other all the time and resetting zero. I have a .223 that doesn't need 22x zoom, and ffp would be nice for varmint stuff, so a 4-16ffp might be in order. But I will wait until the scope has a track record - and ill probably bang it against a rubber Matt or something to make sure there's no FOD in the tube....sorry, but the pic of the blob on that one guys lenses and the report of specs on another are signs of SERIOUS QC slippage in the Philippines as far as I'm concerned. That people are citing that it may have occurred in shipping is laughable! None of that shit should be in the tube of an $800 scope!
That, at the very least, will have to be nipped in the bud before I add one of these to my cart....

 

[Benjamin_Breeg]

Re: Vortex PST cut them some slack

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MER0828</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with BobinNC, regardless of price its reputation and your name...who wants to be a test bed for a manufacture with their hard earned money...not me. </div></div>

Early adopters by definition should have a higher tolerance for issues. If someone can't handle the risk, they should wait until the bugs are worked out. I work in new product development and that is how the world is viewed. There comes a point where you have to "go live" to shake out the final few bugs in your design, manufacturing process, and/or quality control.