Rifle Scopes Vortex PST Happy Frustration- FIXED!!!!

[jtb33]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i prefer the scope that i have to buy once and never use the customer service. </div></div>

lol... and what scope would fall into that category?

It isn't NF and it's not USO... but I'd love to be enlightened by your response.

 

[elkstalker338]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

Maybe JTB is talking about a scope you use till it breaks, then can't get ce so you throw it away and buy another. LOL

 

[jtb33]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DuaneC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe JTB is talking about a scope you use till it breaks, then can't get ce so you throw it away and buy another. LOL </div></div>

Heh. My point was that it is a pipe-dream to say you will buy something that is of such a high quality that you won't ever have a problem with it (eg, never have to deal with customer service). The vast majority will agree that NF and USO are top-shelf optics, but that doesn't make them immune to problems.

I own two NF optics and one USO. Never had to deal with NF customer service (yet), but I know that others' have. I am working with USO CS now though. Good experience thus far.

Here's my experience with my very first USO:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=204873&Number=2297544

If you don't want to read the whole thread, cliffs notes are:

- Got it "brand new" from a user here on the 'Hide.
- When I received it, had HORRIBLE fogging inside - so much that it obscured the view by a good 30% or so.
- Jeff @ USO said that the issue was a bad batch of adhesive USO got and used on a few scopes, including this one.
- Currently at USO being fixed. Should be back to me soon.

 

[elkstalker338]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

Opps dam smart phone my previous comment was weant for millspec not JTB I agree with you JTB thats why I am also waiting on the new viper hd spotting scope to hit the market, already have my name dwn for one and will buy another PST probably after all the back orders have been filled for my 300rum

 

[20Incher]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: finnwerke757</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If history tells us nothing else, its that companies do bring products to market that have issues. When Toyota,Honda etc came to America they truly had POS products. Now they are what others are measured by. You have to judge the company on their merits. If they are willing to bend over backwards to fix their problems, they are top drawer suppliers. To many companies dont have that caliber of integrtiy to say "hey we will take care of you". I dont know of any company that has a 100% no problem production. And also if you look at the price point, what the hell do you expect? A S&B equivalent? Or a Premier equivalent? I didnt think so.And by the way Leupold has been in business for 100yrs. and right now on this forum they have a less than stellar track record. Vortex is just getting started. Give them a fair chance to make things right. Just my two cents and no I dont own one YET. But they are definitely on my list of possible scopes to put on my Tikka.</div></div> Would you go out and buy a car that has a recall just to be in line to get it knowing you'll have to turn it back in to get it fixed,yeah good idea.Just a question but when the jap cars first came to the USA they were crap but were they expensive crap.If they were expensive crap I'm sure they would of failed.In my opinion it's like buying a expensive bsa in the works.No thanks, People arent looking for S+B or USO equivilent ,There spending hard earned cash for a decent scope.There is no way I would dish out $900.00 for a scope HOPING it's going to work properly.That's just insane.How long have these PST threads been going on?How much longer will they go on is the question.

 

[jtb33]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 20incher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would you go out and buy a car that has a recall just to be in line to get it knowing you'll have to turn it back in to get it fixed,yeah good idea.Just a question but when the jap cars first came to the USA they were crap but were they expensive crap.If they were expensive crap I'm sure they would of failed.In my opinion it's like buying a expensive bsa in the works.No thanks </div></div>

 

[BCP]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 20incher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How long have these PST threads been going on?</div></div>

The funny part is that these threads are always perpetuated by people who don't own one or have any interest in buying one.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 20incher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How long have these PST threads been going on?</div></div>

The funny part is that these threads are always perpetuated by people who don't own one or have any interest in buying one. </div></div>

You just described over half the threads on SH. But really, how entertaining would it be if the trolls returned to back under the bridge?

John

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

I would buy a car knowing it had a recall if it was what I really wanted and was in the right price range. Especially if the recall was a bad radio and they were planning to fix it for free. Since thats about what the issues with the PST's are equal to in the grand scheme. A scope that has loose clicks but returns to zero and you can see through is about the same as a car that drives fine just has a sub-par sound system.

 

[DamnDave]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

When I played with them at Shot Show I didn't notice the above problem. There they felt solid as a rock and the turrets clicked very nicely.

Still waiting for my 6-24x50 ffp to come

 

[20Incher]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

Funny thing is I was going to buy one and excited about it but decided not to wait.Went with another company.That is the honest truth no bs.That's my exact point ,price range is key.You may buy a Honda civic with a recall but would you spend $50,000 on a Lexus that had problems.When you drop a lot of coin it better be perfect .At least that's me.Nevermind $900.00 I wouldn't even spend $200.00 for equipment with potential problems.

 

[UH-1H Huey]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

I'm going to buy one soon, i just have to sell one toy to buy another, at least thats what the wife said. I hope to order one in a couple of months, if not sooner. I have an old Horus on my Savage right now, and it has held up well over the past several years, but the glass is low grade, and my eyes are not getting any younger, so i need to step up alittle.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

$800 for a scope with $2500 features is not a lot of money in the scope business my friend. Thats like buying a Honda civic with a AMG Supercharged V12 and AWD with sonar collision avoidance.

If I spent $3500 on a Schmidt and it wasnt perfect, then Id be pissed (if they didnt fix it).

 

[20Incher]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

Read my friend.I said $900 is alot to some.It's relative.most here can't afford a S+B or USO so spending $900 on something that has problems dosent make sense to me.I know BSA has alot of features on there line of scopes($69.00 for $3500.00 of features) and cs is great,so?Some are saying it's all about cs. Of course you would be pissed if they didn't fix a 3500.00 s+b. Honestly,would you hit the buy it now button for $3500.00 fully knowing it might have a problem ,if you say yes don't even bother responding because you'd be lying.

 

[kurt]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

You must not buy anything than because any thing that is manufactured "might" have a problem with it. If you dont plan on buying one dont even bother responding to this post because whats it fucking matter to you any way.

 

[jtb33]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 20incher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny thing is I was going to buy one and excited about it but decided not to wait.Went with another company.That is the honest truth no bs.That's my exact point ,price range is key.You may buy a Honda civic with a recall but would you spend $50,000 on a Lexus that had problems.When you drop a lot of coin it better be perfect .At least that's me.Nevermind $900.00 I wouldn't even spend $200.00 for equipment with potential problems. </div></div>

With this mentality, name a single thing that you CAN buy other than water.

 

[20Incher]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

MIGHT? it does have a known problem.I think some argue just to.I think there is a problem with people paying in advance for something that could possibly be broken.That's just insane. It's your money and time not mine.Anything could have problems .I just buy things with good track records.Answer me one last question if you dare with a simple yes or no only.Does the PST have known problems?

 

[BCP]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 20incher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does the PST have known problems? </div></div>

Mine doesn't.

 

[jtb33]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 20incher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">MIGHT? it does have a known problem.I think some argue just to.I think there is a problem with people paying in advance for something that could possibly be broken.That's just insane. It's your money and time not mine.Anything could have problems .I just buy things with good track records.Answer me one last question if you dare with a simple yes or no only.<span style="color: #FF0000">Does the PST have known problems?</span> </div></div>

Are you referring to an individual optic, or a line of optics?

If the latter, the answer is "no". If the former, then you ask the same about USO, Nightforce, S&B or any other product and the answer would be the same.

I honestly do not follow your logic on this issue.

 

[snwghst]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 20incher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does the PST have known problems? </div></div>

Mine doesn't. </div></div>

Nor mine

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

mine either

 

[shootist~]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: snwghst</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 20incher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does the PST have known problems? </div></div>

Mine doesn't. </div></div>

Nor mine </div></div>

Ditto.

 

[TresMon]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration



Well I have found Vortex CS to be all I had heard it to be & more.

I got a brand new scope back in the mail on the quick-quick. This one is upon initial inspection flawless. I feel that with the demand for these scopes, them rolling out of the plant slowly etc. all equates to outstanding care of the customer for me to already have a new replacement unit.

Per my, others & Sam@Vortex's initial assumption, the play in the mag ring was not a problem nor would have caused problems. It was merely tolerance stacking.

I'd also like to tell you guys that Sam took me under his wing as a customer and Hide member and took over this issue personally for which I am very appreciative.

Sam, thanks for <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">everything!</span></span>

When I'm able guys I will do a exhaustive comprehensive field test on the scope and get back to you if somebody else doesn't beat me to it here on the hide.

 

[eleaf]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would buy a car knowing it had a recall if it was what I really wanted and was in the right price range. Especially if the recall was a bad radio and they were planning to fix it for free. Since thats about what the issues with the PST's are equal to in the grand scheme. A scope that has loose clicks but returns to zero and you can see through is about the same as a car that drives fine just has a sub-par sound system. </div></div>

Seriously?

The system which controls the operation of the scope is bad and you compare that to a sound system? As ound system is a luxury. Having reliable turrets is a necessity. And it wasn't minor. Minor problems don't require halting production, a cease of sales, and a complete redesign.

I'm skeptical of the PSTs and will continue to be until it has time to be properly evaluated on the range and in the field.

That said, I looked at a 1-4x PST recently, and I was impressed with the fit and finish, as well as the glass and reticle. If it was a mil/mil version, I might have bought it (it was MOA) to satisfy my curiosity and perhaps have a scope for my SHTF or coyote gun (I was in the market for a 1-4x until last night when I purchased the new SS 1-4x).

I'm still skeptical, even if only because the first version had issues big enough to halt production and require a redesign.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

I think you are blowing the "problem" out of proportion. The ONLY reason Vortex suspended production was that the turrets did not have enough resistance. They were not broken, they did not lock up or adjust incorrectly...they just werent stiff enough.

People keep saying that another issue with them was reticle cant. THIS WAS NOT A WIDESPREAD ISSUE, and it technically wasnt even an issue on the one scope that you hear about having it. One guy did a review saying he had 2 degrees of reticle cant based on a $70 boresighter (not bashing Jon A here). First off, the amount he had (if what he measured was correct) is within several companies QC for reticle cant. Second, the devices Vortex and others use to measure the reticles straigtness cost several thousands of dollars and can measure a bit more accurately than a leupold zero point. So we shouldnt even assume his reticle was canted that much until it was measured on qualified equipment.

If other companies in the price range did the same thing as Vortex and pulled their scopes due to minor issues then there would be no scopes in this range available right now.

For example.

1. Falcon, great scopes, track well, but the turrets are MUSH, you cant feel a thing. People still use them and love them because the scopes still WORK.

2. Bushnell 4200 - Again, turrets are mushy, and have the lowest amount of adjustment of any scope I know of in this market. What use is a long range tactical scope if you can, if youre lucky, barely get to 1000 yds with a 20moa base on a 308. But people still use them and like them because the scope still works.

These are two of the PST's biggest competitors. They very well could have left the scopes in production with the somewhat loose turrets and been making huge amounts of coin off them, since people wouldve still bought and loved them for the value. But they decided to fix this, Ill say it again, minor issue due to customer response because they did not want an impefect product out there.

Youve seen two guys above me that own these scopes reply and say they have no issues with their first run PST's...Ill end there

 

[TresMon]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
These are two of the PST's biggest competitors. </div></div>
[<span style="font-style: italic">Falcon, Bushy 4200</span>]

If that's the case, (and I agree) , there IS NO competition!!

 

[eleaf]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you are blowing the "problem" out of proportion. The ONLY reason Vortex suspended production was that the turrets did not have enough resistance. They were not broken, they did not lock up or adjust incorrectly...they just werent stiff enough.
</div></div>

A company doesn't halt production and do a complete redesign of a product because it doesn't have any issues. If you believe that these scopes didn't have significant design or manufacturing issues of some sort, yet Vortex decided the best course of action was to halt production and commence in a redesign of the entire line, I have some swamp land in FL to sell you.

Minor inconveniences don't lead to production halts and complete redesigns.

 

[hydro556]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you are blowing the "problem" out of proportion. The ONLY reason Vortex suspended production was that the turrets did not have enough resistance. They were not broken, they did not lock up or adjust incorrectly...they just werent stiff enough.
</div></div>

A company doesn't halt production and do a complete redesign of a product because it doesn't have any issues. If you believe that these scopes didn't have significant design or manufacturing issues of some sort, yet Vortex decided the best course of action was to halt production and commence in a redesign of the entire line, I have some swamp land in FL to sell you.

Minor inconveniences don't lead to production halts and complete redesigns. </div></div>

That depends on company that is selling the product.

I am sure there are plenty of companies that would have let this issue go, fixing only the ones that the end users sent back for warranty work.

If this is the case, and you are bashing Vortex for holding a higher standard, then I couldnt disagree with you more.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

They may of had issues but the real question is. How are the new ones? I think with some reviews that are positive. Vortex will have a scope in high demand. I would purchase one. This concept of a middle price scope with all the features they offer is great.
At least they took the steps to get a good product out there. That has to say something about the company.

 

[eleaf]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you are blowing the "problem" out of proportion. The ONLY reason Vortex suspended production was that the turrets did not have enough resistance. They were not broken, they did not lock up or adjust incorrectly...they just werent stiff enough.
</div></div>

A company doesn't halt production and do a complete redesign of a product because it doesn't have any issues. If you believe that these scopes didn't have significant design or manufacturing issues of some sort, yet Vortex decided the best course of action was to halt production and commence in a redesign of the entire line, I have some swamp land in FL to sell you.

Minor inconveniences don't lead to production halts and complete redesigns. </div></div>

That depends on company that is selling the product.

I am sure there are plenty of companies that would have let this issue go, fixing only the ones that the end users sent back for warranty work.

If this is the case, and you are bashing Vortex for holding a higher standard, then I couldnt disagree with you more. </div></div>

I'm not bashing Vortex at all. I'm voicing my skepticism of the PST line until there has been time to properly vet the product. Since it has been a product that had to undergo a redesign, I see no problem in that. In fact, NOT having skepticism seems to me more foolish and indicative of a dumb consumer.

If they were "holding a higher standard" they wouldn't have allowed an inferior product (loosely defined as a product that undergoes a halt in production and ultimately a redesign) to hit the market in the first place.

I'm not knocking their decision to halt production and redesign the product. That's indicative of a good company. But halting production near immediately after release, and undergoing a redesign of the product that takes a good long while to reappear on the market should be a huge, flashing neon sign that says there was some serious design or manufacturing issues with the first iteration, not minor issues with a small minority of scopes as some want to claim.

 

[hydro556]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you are blowing the "problem" out of proportion. The ONLY reason Vortex suspended production was that the turrets did not have enough resistance. They were not broken, they did not lock up or adjust incorrectly...they just werent stiff enough.
</div></div>

A company doesn't halt production and do a complete redesign of a product because it doesn't have any issues. If you believe that these scopes didn't have significant design or manufacturing issues of some sort, yet Vortex decided the best course of action was to halt production and commence in a redesign of the entire line, I have some swamp land in FL to sell you.

Minor inconveniences don't lead to production halts and complete redesigns. </div></div>

That depends on company that is selling the product.

I am sure there are plenty of companies that would have let this issue go, fixing only the ones that the end users sent back for warranty work.

If this is the case, and you are bashing Vortex for holding a higher standard, then I couldnt disagree with you more. </div></div>

I'm not bashing Vortex at all. I'm voicing my skepticism of the PST line until there has been time to properly vet the product. Since it has been a product that had to undergo a redesign, I see no problem in that. In fact, NOT having skepticism seems to me more foolish and indicative of a dumb consumer.

If they were "holding a higher standard" they wouldn't have allowed an inferior product (loosely defined as a product that undergoes a halt in production and ultimately a redesign) to hit the market in the first place.

I'm not knocking their decision to halt production and redesign the product. That's indicative of a good company. But halting production near immediately after release, and undergoing a redesign of the product that takes a good long while to reappear on the market should be a huge, flashing neon sign that says there was some serious design or manufacturing issues with the first iteration, not minor issues with a small minority of scopes as some want to claim. </div></div>

I think it is more a positive reflection on Vortex's standards of quality than a negative reflection on their ability to produce a quality optic.

Just cracks me up how some folks have double standards. If Leupold has a problem it is magnified about a billion times and they are ostracized as incompetent losers who suck at life, but when Premier releases with mushy turrets, it is a minor hiccup.

Doesnt matter to me, I have scopes that run the gamut, but I am starting to rethink my decisions.

I have a 1-4 PST now on a carbine and am waiting on a 6-24PST to put on an OBR, and if they perform like I anticipate, I wont be buying anymore $3K optics. No matter how badly I want to try a Hensoldt.

These funds will be redirected into new platforms and ammo for existing ones.

Vortex is doing a lot for buyers of precision optics by increasing value and forcing competitors to increase value. Even for those who bash them, the better prices will ultimately be available.

 

[eleaf]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They may of had issues but the real question is. How are the new ones? I think with some reviews that are positive. Vortex will have a scope in high demand. I would purchase one. This concept of a middle price scope with all the features they offer is great.
At least they took the steps to get a good product out there. That has to say something about the company. </div></div>

Absolutely!

But the product has been shipping now for what? 6 weeks? 4? Very few people have scopes in hand, even fewer have tested them even informally at the range, and virtually no one has tested it thoroughly at the range or in the field.

With this product's history, I am skeptical about its quality. My argument, given the history of the PST, is that to all of this PST love is based on the specs on paper is foolish until it has gone through the gauntlet and numerous evaluations by users of all kinds.

 

[hydro556]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

Eleaf. I am curious as to what optics you currently use.

 

[eleaf]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Eleaf. I am curious as to what optics you currently use. </div></div>

On which rifle?

I use a gamut of optics ranging from Bushnell Banner Dusk and Dawn to Falcon Menace to Bushnell Elite 4200 to Super Sniper to IOR and Nightforce.

All of them get used.

 

[hydro556]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

I was just wondering if you were running optics from a mfg that had ever had an optic fail or any type of post production adjustment required?

 

[jrob300]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

Eleaf,

I had an order in with the original batch and canceled it because I could wait no longer. I, like you, had serious concerns about the product and the necessitated re-design. Scott @ Liberty Optics convinced me to take a calculated risk on a Razor, despite my concerns about Vortex, and I have been delighted.

In addition, I have had several interactions personally with Sam and Scott from Vortex as well as their customer service department that have been very good.

They have repeatedly delivered the goods, and despite my initially skepticism are winning me over as a loyal (but not blind) customer.

I now have a Viper PST 4-16 on order with Scott for another build. So you see... I have a dog in this fight. It would appear you have none, other than to bad mouth a company that has bent over backward to earn our trust. Will their excellent products and outstanding customer support continue? We have no way of knowing. But I would venture to say that NONE of their actions have justified the vitriol that you have spewed here.

You've said your peace. Now, would you politely go away. You're more than welcome to return and tell us you told us so, when it all turns to shit.

John

 

[eleaf]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was just wondering if you were running optics from a mfg that had ever had an optic fail or any type of post production adjustment required? </div></div>

Every company has had an optic fail at one point or another. That's a straw man you're building there.

IOR has a history of questionable durability, especially some of their earlier tactical scopes, but the scope I bought had been out for a year and had received nothing but good reviews since its release.

You're trying to frame my argument as something I never wrote.

 

[eleaf]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Eleaf,

I had an order in with the original batch and canceled it because I could wait no longer. I, like you, had serious concerns about the product and the necessitated re-design. Scott @ Liberty Optics convinced me to take a calculated risk on a Razor, despite my concerns about Vortex, and I have been delighted.

In addition, I have had several interactions personally with Sam and Scott from Vortex as well as their customer service department that have been very good.

They have repeatedly delivered the goods, and despite my initially skepticism are winning me over as a loyal (but not blind) customer.

I now have a Viper PST 4-16 on order with Scott for another build. So you see... I have a dog in this fight. It would appear you have none, other than to bad mouth a company that has bent over backward to earn our trust. Will their excellent products and outstanding customer support continue? We have no way of knowing. But I would venture to say that NONE of their actions have justified the vitriol that you have spewed here.

You've said your peace. Now, would you politely go away. You're more than welcome to return and tell us you told us so, when it all turns to shit.

John </div></div>

Can you show me one place I bad mouthed Vortex?

Just one.

In fact, I've never written anything but GOOD about Vortex.

I haven't written anything even remotely containing vitriol.

I'll leave you to your PST love fest.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you show me one place I bad mouthed Vortex?</div></div>

The general tone of your posts in this thread have all been negative, despite throwing a strategically placed politically correct "good company" comment here and there.

There is a term to describe a person who does not own the product, has not owned the product and has made it clear they have serious concerns about the product AND has more than about 4 or 5 posts in a thread. It's called a troll.

Eleaf, if you expected us to listen to you about your concerns, then you needed credibility. I'd say you've not given us much to go on. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that a few poorly worded sentences have made you sound different than you intended.

John

 

[eleaf]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you show me one place I bad mouthed Vortex?</div></div>

The general tone of your posts in this thread have all been negative, despite throwing a strategically placed politically correct "good company" comment here and there.

There is a term to describe a person who does not own the product, has not owned the product and has made it clear they have serious concerns about the product AND has more than about 4 or 5 posts in a thread. It's called a troll.

Eleaf, if you expected us to listen to you about your concerns, then you needed credibility. I'd say you've not given us much to go on. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that a few poorly worded sentences have made you sound different than you intended.

John </div></div>

So we've gone from definite bad mouthing to "general tone", with the bonus of anything good I said about them is "strategically placed" PC speak.

My "general tone" has been completely consistent with skepticism about a product that had to be halted and redesigned. On top of that, the original post is about how the OP HAD TO FUCKING RETURN A BRAND NEW, SECOND RUN SCOPE BECAUSE OF ISSUES. Any skepticism I noted about the PST isn't bad mouthing vortex, nor is it even bad mouthing the PST. It's skepticism.

There is a term to describe a person who steadfastly supports a product that has a history of issues in a post discussing how even the redesigned product had immediate issues, yet continues to support it as if it were the best thing since sliced bread, and derides anyone who might have something other than something glowing to say about it. It's called a fanboi.

 

[hydro556]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration

And who are you calling a fanboy? Doesnt really matter, but I am curious.

There are other names out there as well. LOL

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration- FIXED!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You would use badly taken pics of a reticle to make your scope decision?

The Bushy is tried and true, and has the LL seal of approval. It has been vetted by the community and there isn't much negative anything about it.

The PST is just now trickling to customers who have ordered them over a year ago.

It's a no brainer. I wouldn't pick up a scope until it was in good circulation for AT LEAST 6 months. Until then, all it is is something that looks good on paper. It also helps to remember that the PST was already botched up so badly that Vortex had to start from scratch because the original ones were <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">pieces of shit</span></span>.

Buy the Bushnell, use the extra $350 on ammo and shoot. </div></div>

Well I had to find the other thread, but the tone in that thread is the same as it is here.

Argument is pointless on this forum, weve pretty much exhausted the point of this discussion, so lets restart it in 6mo when people have used them for awhile.

Continue using the Bushnell that has no issues whatsoever, other than the 12 total mils of elevation, should be good for 800yds.

Ponder this question, say everything on the PST was perfect, but it only had 12mils of total adjustment. Do you think Vortex would have continued production of them?
<span style="font-style: italic">if you say yes, I dont even know what to say</span>

 

[eleaf]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration- FIXED!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You would use badly taken pics of a reticle to make your scope decision?

The Bushy is tried and true, and has the LL seal of approval. It has been vetted by the community and there isn't much negative anything about it.

The PST is just now trickling to customers who have ordered them over a year ago.

It's a no brainer. I wouldn't pick up a scope until it was in good circulation for AT LEAST 6 months. Until then, all it is is something that looks good on paper. It also helps to remember that the PST was already botched up so badly that Vortex had to start from scratch because the original ones were <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">pieces of shit</span></span>.

Buy the Bushnell, use the extra $350 on ammo and shoot. </div></div>

Well I had to find the other thread, but the tone in that thread is the same as it is here.

Argument is pointless on this forum, weve pretty much exhausted the point of this discussion, so lets restart it in 6mo when people have used them for awhile.

Continue using the Bushnell that has no issues whatsoever, other than the 12 total mils of elevation, should be good for 800yds.

Ponder this question, say everything on the PST was perfect, but it only had 12mils of total adjustment. Do you think Vortex would have continued production of them?
<span style="font-style: italic">if you say yes, I dont even know what to say</span>
</div></div>

It's nice that you choose to highlight the description, but not the object being described.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It also helps to remember that the PST was already botched up so badly that Vortex had to start from scratch because <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">the original ones</span></span> were <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">pieces of shit</span></span>.</div></div>

I have no final judgments on the new ones one way or the other. In fact, if you would go back and look, since you're so keen to do so, my only judgment is POSITIVE based on the 1-4x that I have seen and held and looked through informally. It seems beefy. Glass looks nice. Reticle is good. Clicks are good-not-great. But that isn't enough to definitely purchase one due to the fact that Vortex had to start over with the PST.

Don't know about other Bushies, but my 3-12x44 ffp has 20 mil of travel. I never argued it was the perfect scope. But it is tried and true, and does have PLENTY of positive reviews, including a very in depth, harsh testing period done by Lowlight. He shot his out to 1000 and back to his 100 yard zero with no issues. When someone literally blows up the PST and it continues to perform, I'll lose my skepticism.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration- FIXED!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll leave you to your PST love fest.</div></div>

Oh, that it were true...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When someone literally blows up the PST and it continues to perform, I'll lose my skepticism. </div></div>

Shall we wait with breath held?

I think not.

At this point, I dare say, most of us have long wearied of your skepticism, as if in the greater scheme of things your opinion really mattered to us that much at all...

Methinks thou dost think far too highly of thyself...

John

 

[quiksilv81]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration- FIXED!!!!

i just received a bushnell ffp 3-12 in the mail i dont understand why people say the turrets are mushy. Mine are very tactile, not audible but very solid clicks and no worries of accidentally turning them. just my opinion

 

[hydro556]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration- FIXED!!!!

If you can tell when you go from one click to the next, and they stay in place, they are doing their job.

Enjoy your scope, it is fine.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration- FIXED!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: drb5r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i just received a bushnell ffp 3-12 in the mail i dont understand why people say the turrets are mushy. Mine are very tactile, not audible but very solid clicks and no worries of accidentally turning them. just my opinion </div></div>

I shouldnt have thrown that comment out there against the Bushnells. I used a 6-24 ffp for a short period and they werent total mush like the Falcons, but I think they make more noise than they do make you feel the clicks.

My biggest gripe against them, and something I think a big enough deal for bushnell to halt production (but they didnt), is only having 12 mils total travel in their high mag series.

A buddy just installed one on a 308 with a 20moa, and after zeroing he is left with under 10 mils, a 175gn 308 requiring 11.5 mils at 1000 this is unsatisfactory to call it a Tactical scope.

Other than that, the glass looks good from what I saw of it, the illumination is ok. If it doesnt have an off position between each setting I would prefer how bushnell does it with the smooth rotation, no clicks, although I can see it getting changed very easily if you want to leave your Illum on and move positions. Its also a fairly compact scope for the mag range surprisingly.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration- FIXED!!!!

Also, Im sure once Lowlight gets his hands on a PST he wont hesitate to blow it up with Tannerite like he did a Razor.

 

[eleaf]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration- FIXED!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My biggest gripe against them, and something I think a big enough deal for bushnell to halt production (but they didnt), is only having 12 mils total travel in their high mag series.

A buddy just installed one on a 308 with a 20moa, and after zeroing he is left with under 10 mils, a 175gn 308 requiring 11.5 mils at 1000 this is unsatisfactory to call it a Tactical scope.

</div></div>

Agreed. I'm not sure why Bushnell has their heads in their asses when it comes to scope travel. They seemed to have addressed this deficiency somewhat in the 3-12x44 ffp as it has 20 mils of travel which is more than enough to get to 1000.

But I agree. They need to seriously address scope travel in their new ELite line if they really want to compete.

A modern, useful reticle would help too. your average mildot reticle simply isn't nearly as useful as virtually any other mil-based reticle on the market.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Vortex PST Happy Frustration- FIXED!!!!

It will be interesting to see how the new scopes they released (or announced) at SHOT are. Supposedly they have far more travel, and will be available with HORUS reticles I think.