Rifle Scopes Vortex Razor LHT 4.5-22x50 Disappointment

[RabbitSlayer48]

Just here to complain because I am so annoyed.

Received a Vortex Razor LHT 4.5-22x50 moa today. I have always been anti vortex, because when they first came out the chinese stuff had a reputation for spending more time being warrantied than on the gun. However, this scope is about the lightest weight FFP available, and that is just what I need for my walking prairie dog build. So I went against my better judgement and got a Vortex. I mean it's made in Japan, probably at LOW, how could it not be good? Right out the box illumination button is defective. Sometimes it doesn't work at all, sometimes it works a few clicks then turns off. Other times it might make it through the 10 click cycle till it flashes, but unfortunately it took between 11 and 14 clicks to get there. And the clicks are mushy sometimes with no audible or tactile click at all. Back to warranty without getting mounted. Now there is no chance of sighting the gun in for my annual PD trip in a few weeks.

In addition to the defect, the turrets are pretty lame for a scope in this price range. The elevation is a bit mushy with a muted sound. Id say a burris signature hd with locking turrets is dang close just a little more slop. The windage is just a joke. I have 300 dollar scopes with clicks that good like swfa fixed power and ultralight.

I knew the reticle I might not like too much. I could live with it i guess, but why such a small opening in the center? Why not 1 moa each side of the center dot like most scopes? Why multiples of 4 instead of 5 like other scopes?

Finally, i dunno why but it feels cheap. I seriously had to tap some of the stuff on the counter to verify it is not plastic. I guess it is because things are made thin to reduce weight.

I will say the glass provides a very nice image on par with my tract toric 4-20x50, but the tract crushes it in every way except weight and the ugly grey color. The other good thing is the locking ocular that is not too huge. Fast focus ocular is no bueno for hunting IMHO and huge oculars can force you to use higher rings on a bolt gun.

Ill take a chinese athlon over another Japanese vortex. That is pretty sad. It'll be for sale unopened when it returns.

 

[st1650]

Just wait till it looses zero after the first time wind blows on it.

 

[UpSideDown]

Yeah I was OK getting rid of my LHT 3-15. The glass was nice and reticle worked. It was a scope I hated to love; it technically did everything I needed from it. It was utterly uninspiring and I was waiting for it to break, I never felt comfortable dialing with those turrets, the membrane button illumination seemed weak and the magnification knob was the stiffest I've ever felt on a scope. If you cranked on it with a full hand grip you could get it to max mag in about 5-10 seconds. They've got a track record of losing zero with easy drops.

Meh. I bought a bunch of LRHSi's.

 

[Lug Nut]

I had two of the 3x15’s fail right out of the box. Same problem with the illumination button.

And that illumination button is awkward.

Returned and upgraded to something else.

 

[JINKSTER]

Just here to complain because I am so annoyed.

no audible or tactile click at all. Back to warranty without getting mounted. Now there is no chance of sighting the gun in for my annual PD trip in a few weeks.

In addition to the defect, the turrets are pretty lame for a scope in this price range. The elevation is a bit mushy with a muted sound. Id say a burris signature hd with locking turrets is dang close just a little more slop...

1st I'd like to say I'm sorry about how this put a damper on your PD trip but I'm sure you'll recover nicely and have a great time.

2ndly?...filed under the old cliche that "One man's junk is another man's treasure"?...I'd like to thank you for mentioning the Burris Signature HD line as coincidently?...a couple months ago I walked into Bass Pro to literally purchase a $999.97 Leupold VX5-HD but wound up walking out with a $500 Burris Sig HD because it was everything the Leupold was except without the "Mushy Turrets" the leupold had and I'm talking zero audio and you'd dang near need to be a safecracker to feel the clicks...I could actually get the turrets to stop in between clicks kinda mushy....wound up liking the Burris Sig HD so much?...I went back a couple weeks latter and bought the last 3-15X44 they had.

Lastly?...I have this theory that ever since C19?...nothing is what it used to be whether it's a high end rifle scope, a new vehicle or even a store bought meal at a restaurant...it's like folks hearts ain't in their work anymore which makes buying anything these days somewhat of a crapshoot.

Hope things work out for you PD trip...I'm sure they will and thanks for making my day by comparing a Razor lht to a burris sig.

 

[Just Macca]

Realistically speaking, the LHT 4.5-22 is the best we’ve got for it’s niche. It has short comings, but a lot of positives - weight, depth of field, price, glass.

@RabbitSlayer48 I think you need to take the 6oz weight penalty and get a Tangent Theta M or H 3-15.

From the impressions I get - only the best is good enough sometimes…

I really like my LHT, no issues so far and I’m on the fence between another or spending double (Ooof) for a Tangent.

EDIT: I bought another

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Why didn’t you just return it to the retailer that you purchased it from? Receiving a defective product out of the box is absolutely reasons for a return with no restocking fee penalty and no, “defective items must be handled through the manufacturer” is not an excuse to not take it back.

 

[M77]

the illumination button on the 3-15 model is a steaming heap of shit. pretty sure they are the same on the 4-22 model.
that was my gripe on it, overall nice scope though

 

[BruceLeroy]

The only issue that should have surprised you would be the illumination. Did you not fondle and look through the scope before buying one? Most of the complaints should have been known before purchasing.

 

[RFutch]

I like my 4.5-22 quite a bit even with the mushy elevation turret. Thats the price you pay to have a lightweight full featured scope.

The illumination I could'nt care less how the button feels as long as it comes on. I'll probably never use it anyways.

 

[JINKSTER]

I like my 4.5-22 quite a bit even with the mushy elevation turret. Thats the price you pay to have a lightweight full featured scope....

RFutch brings up a good point that begs the question...How much mechanical resistance can a turret have when it's used in a lightweight tube with a wall thickness that's been shaved down to bare minimum weight to hit the scales at 21.7 ounces?....so stiff turrets probably wouldn't work out over the long term and making a thicker, stiffer tube to deal with ratchet like turret clicks would probably bump the scope up into the middle-weight class where it would lose its LHT classification.

Just food for thought.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

That’s no excuse for having shitty mushy turrets. There’s plenty of lighter scopes on the market that don’t have shitty turrets. There Chinese scopes that don’t have shitty turrets.

For an optic I’m Vortex’s flagship line to have shitty turrets is pretty embarrassing.

 

[RFutch]

That’s no excuse for having shitty mushy turrets. There’s plenty of lighter scopes on the market that don’t have shitty turrets.

Like what?

 

[JINKSTER]

That’s no excuse for having shitty mushy turrets. There’s plenty of lighter scopes on the market that don’t have shitty turrets. There Chinese scopes that don’t have shitty turrets.

For an optic I’m Vortex’s flagship line to have shitty turrets is pretty embarrassing.

You're right....should've thought deeper before offering up that presumption because despite tube wall thickness?...that bulge in the middle should support turrets having well defined, positive engaging clicks...not mush...my bad...just a stab at making the OP feel better.

 

[b6graham]

That’s no excuse for having shitty mushy turrets. There’s plenty of lighter scopes on the market that don’t have shitty turrets. There Chinese scopes that don’t have shitty turrets.

For an optic I’m Vortex’s flagship line to have shitty turrets is pretty embarrassing.

i wonder what the result would be if these get sent back

it worked wonders for the razor gen 3

 

[RabbitSlayer48]

I bought the scope online and the stores near me did not have one to fondle. Returning it to vortex is just as annoying as returning it where I got it. Picked up a midas tac 6-24 to at least make sure i get the gun into the killing fields this year. Sad I have more faith in athlon chinesium.

 

[JINKSTER]

I bought the scope online and the stores near me did not have one to fondle. Returning it to vortex is just as annoying as returning it where I got it. Picked up a midas tac 6-24 to at least make sure i get the gun into the killing fields this year. Sad I have more faith in athlon chinesium.

You're not alone...matter fact?....try to order a vortex scope from Cameraland...you can't...reason?....Cameraland dropped the entire Vortex line due to high RA's.

I've done a ton of research on scopes and the amount of optics companies doing business through OEM/Superior Lense is mindblowing and the other thing that is mindblowing is how it seems that Chinese build quality is...(I can't bring myself to say it)....its that bad...or good....depending how you look at it.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I bought the scope online and the stores near me did not have one to fondle. Returning it to vortex is just as annoying as returning it where I got it. Picked up a midas tac 6-24 to at least make sure i get the gun into the killing fields this year. Sad I have more faith in athlon chinesium.

That’s absolutely retarded. You have to stick it in a box and ship it off either way. If you send it back to the retailer you get your $$ back in full and wash your hands of it.

But you’re bitching that you’re going to have to sell it at a loss. No, you didn’t, but now you are because you took the stupid path towards a resolution. Ohh and now you get it stick it in a box and ship it off twice now LOL.

I honestly don’t feel bad for you.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Like what?

I’m not going to list off every model but there are optics from TT, Swaro, Bushnell, SWFA, S&B and Leupold to name a few that are lightweight long range optics and have good feeling turrets.

 

[st1650]

Midas Tac is a 500$ optics and has absolutely superior turrets than the LHT HD for half the price. There’s no excuses.

In fact the Helos Gen 2 as well.

 

[RFutch]

I’m not going to list off every model but there are optics from TT, Swaro, Bushnell, SWFA, S&B and Leupold to name a few that are lightweight long range optics and have good feeling turrets.

The only one even remotely close to a apples to apples comparision is the TT at 4x the price.

 

[RFutch]

Midas Tac is a 500$ optics and has absolutely superior turrets than the LHT HD for half the price. There’s no excuses.

In fact the Helos Gen 2 as well.

Again a 30oz scope. Not even close...

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The only one even remotely close to a apples to apples comparision is the TT at 4x the price.

There are plenty of comparable optics that would be well suited for the same uses.

Regardless, comparable optics or not it’s no excuse for a $1500 in the flagship line to have shitty turrets and non functioning illumination. That’s garbage, whatever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night though.

 

[RabbitSlayer48]

The midas tac is 26oz not 30. I have a ares btr gen 2 also and that is like 27.8. the 34mm midas tac is around 30z.

 

[RFutch]

There are plenty of comparable optics that would be well suited for the same uses.

Thats an opinion and does not mean they are the same. What you think is well suited does not mean I will agree. Thankfully we have many choices these days.

Regardless, comparable optics or not it’s no excuse for a $1500 in the flagship line to have shitty turrets and non functioning illumination. That’s garbage, whatever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night though.

Non functioning illumination is not acceptable. Mine works fine though so not a concern for me. As far as the turrets, meh they work and I knew what I was getting before hand as I had played with a 3-15 version before ordering. Still a small complaint as no one makes the perfect optic.

 

[JINKSTER]

I would think that knowing a scope has mushy turrets and still shelling out $1,500 is kind of a weak stance to defend but?...I have no dog in this fight however I do sympathize with the OP...for $1,500?...he shouldn't have received junk in the box but that seems an ongoing theme with Vortex.

 

[RFutch]

Well I didn't pay anywhere near that for mine brand new and it doesn't keep me from hitting targets so its kind of trival thing to worry about.

 

[RabbitSlayer48]

Replacement arrived. It works better but still junk. Sometimes its 11, 12, or 13 clicks to go through the cycle not 10. Its nothing like a "click". Its just mush. I mean seriously a 5 dollar flashlight can have clicks that cycle through the light modes, but vortex can't figure it out.

On the bright side, the midas tac arrived. Everything seems good. Guess this will have to do until a better <22oz ffp comes out.

 

[JDB55]

So I had that same "problem" with my illumination button. I was having issues getting it to cycle through illumination consistently, sometimes it was perfect other times intermittent that it wouldn't cycle rightly.

So, I reached out to Vortex and got a customer service rep who pulled one out of the box and worked on the issue seeing if he could replicate it. We both noticed "squeaking" with some batteries as we changed to different 2032 batteries from different manufacturers, others had none, also the level of torque you put on that illumination dial makes a huge difference because of the design, you need the battery to be "loose" enough to press that internal button.

In the end we both came to the conclusion that 2032 batteries vary in size, the ones that had squeaking we're slightly undersized so it was depressing the illumination mechanism that it hits when you press the button differently then others, but more than that I was over torquing the illumination piece. Once I went snug but not to tight it worked flawlessly and continued to do so.

I love my LHT, would I prefer a turn knob solution for illumination? Absolutely, however; my guess is that not having that contributes to the weight savings. Acknowledging the less than ideal button set up, try a different 2032 and see if there is a spot in snugging that Illumination piece that gives you perfect actuation.

Good luck

 

[akmtnrunner]

You might be interested in the Trijicon Tenmile. The 3-18x is 25 oz and it’s additional weight over the LHT appears to be in the right places. Highly critical shooters have put it through its paces and have little negatives to say. The sticker price is kind of high but street price is much less.

 

[Hawkguy29]

That’s no excuse for having shitty mushy turrets. There’s plenty of lighter scopes on the market that don’t have shitty turrets. There Chinese scopes that don’t have shitty turrets.

For an optic I’m Vortex’s flagship line to have shitty turrets is pretty embarrassing.

Just curious, do the turrets not track true? or are they just mushy? I dont mind the mush if they track the way they are supposed to.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Just curious, do the turrets not track true? or are they just mushy? I dont mind the mush if they track the way they are supposed to.

I posted that based on others feedback before I bought one. Mine track true and while they aren’t great feeling turrets they aren’t bad either. At this price point you can’t have it all and it’s an excellent optic. I mostly hold dope and the reticle lends itself great to that so it’s a 100% non issue for me regardless, but even when I have dialed it they still feel good. You know every click so they’re purpose served. Just don’t expect S&B turrets or something in an optic that has a $1200 street price.

 

[Missalot]

Wow. I got a 3-15x50 on Liberty's big sale and I took it out of the box and looked at it, but the rifle it's going on isn't here yet. I got it based on the stellar reviews here. My first impressions is it's a cheap looking scope for a grand. The elevation turret is ok, but the windage is crap. I tried to go 5 clicks each way and couldn't tell by feel if I went 4 or 5. It's mush. I don't generally twist for windage so maybe this won't be a big deal. I think the turret caps are plastic. At least they feel and sound like plastic. I haven't put the battery in yet. Overall, I not impressed considering this is supposed to be Razor quality.

 

[Faith7]

1st I'd like to say I'm sorry about how this put a damper on your PD trip but I'm sure you'll recover nicely and have a great time.

2ndly?...filed under the old cliche that "One man's junk is another man's treasure"?...I'd like to thank you for mentioning the Burris Signature HD line as coincidently?...a couple months ago I walked into Bass Pro to literally purchase a $999.97 Leupold VX5-HD but wound up walking out with a $500 Burris Sig HD because it was everything the Leupold was except without the "Mushy Turrets" the leupold had and I'm talking zero audio and you'd dang near need to be a safecracker to feel the clicks...I could actually get the turrets to stop in between clicks kinda mushy....wound up liking the Burris Sig HD so much?...I went back a couple weeks latter and bought the last 3-15X44 they had.

Lastly?...I have this theory that ever since C19?...nothing is what it used to be whether it's a high end rifle scope, a new vehicle or even a store bought meal at a restaurant...it's like folks hearts ain't in their work anymore which makes buying anything these days somewhat of a crapshoot.

Hope things work out for you PD trip...I'm sure they will and thanks for making my day by comparing a Razor lht to a burris sig.

That safe cracker comment made me laugh. F7

 

[M77]

The shiny black coating/ anodising they use is absolutely shit house. The illumination button is a joke. Mushy piece of shit. Overall build quality is average
Image is good though

*** referring to the 3-15

 

[Faith7]

I own the 3-15x50 with the BDC reticle. The turrets are are surprise, as you say. The image does seem good to me too, though.

 

[Scopeye]

There's a huge difference in quality between the LHTs and their other Razor lines of scopes that's for sure it's like the LHTs are their entry level budget priced Japanese scopes. It's like how the $500 Bushnell scopes used to be when they were made in Japan many years ago and their glass aren't the greatest at least not by today's standards.

Once you're spoiled with a Chinese Athlon Midas Tac 6-24x50/4-16x44 or Ares BTR G2 / Midas BTR G2 4.5-27x50 or Chinese Burris Signature HDs your expectations would naturally be much higher when paying more money including Japan made scopes. These Chinese Burris Signature HD s and Athlons are real hidden gems for sure that not too many people even know about. I can see really clearly now...

 

[Supersubes]

I love mine. Shoot the shit out of it on a very light hunting rifle. Illum works perfect, love how clean the illum
Is on the reticle, no starburst bullshit. I like the elevation turret click spacing since they didnt try to pack a zillion mils per rev on the thing. There’s no question where youre at, and you can mash the turret down and lock it in place in any case. Glass is fucking great, weight is great.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

“Spoiled” by chinesium commie goods, that’s a first.

 

[Scopeye]

“Spoiled” by chinesium commie goods, that’s a first.

Only "certain" brands and "specific" models of Chinesium goods. Even Athlon and Burris sells some crappy Chinese scopes as well so you just need to know which ones to buy and what to avoid.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

No, they’re all shit.

 

[Scopeye]

No, they’re all shit.

Which specific scopes do you personally like to use? Are there any that are affordable?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I buy quality optics and don’t waste my money on junk. Japanese, European, or US made optics only. Anything is affordable if you save for it.

 

[Faith7]

There's a huge difference in quality between the LHTs and their other Razor lines of scopes that's for sure it's like the LHTs are their entry level budget priced Japanese scopes. It's like how the $500 Bushnell scopes used to be when they were made in Japan many years ago and their glass aren't the greatest at least not by today's standards.

Once you're spoiled with a Chinese Athlon Midas Tac 6-24x50/4-16x44 or Ares BTR G2 / Midas BTR G2 4.5-27x50 or Chinese Burris Signature HDs your expectations would naturally be much higher when paying more money including Japan made scopes. These Chinese Burris Signature HD s and Athlons are real hidden gems for sure that not too many people even know about. I can see really clearly now...

I also own the Ares ETR 3-18x50. I don't hear many people talk about this scope, and I have mentioned this on another forum. The chat seems to largely be about the Helos or the Midas-TAC. (At least you mention the Ares BTR.) I hear lots of good things about the Cronus too, but again, I don't hear much about the Ares ETR. It's almost as if the scope does not exist. Anyway, that's my (limited) experience regarding such. F7

 

[Scopeye]

I also own the Ares ETR 3-18x50. I don't hear many people talk about this scope, and I have mentioned this on another forum. The chat seems to largely be about the Helos or the Midas-TAC. (At least you mentione the Ares BTR.) I hear lots of good things about the Cronus too, but again, I don't hear much about the Ares ETR. It's almost as if the scope does not exist. Anyway, that's my (limited) experience regarding such. F7

The Athlon Ares ETR are the best Chinese made scopes that money can buy that come close to rivaling Japan and USA made scopes. The problem with this specific line of Chinese made optics is they are still made in China and seem to be very overpriced based on country of origin since Chinese made are meant for corporate profits and not necessarily for quality. There have been confirmed reports of shoddy quality control specifically with their Ares ETR line of scopes as well as their 34mm Midas Tac 5-25x56 and some others even slipped through QC with black specs in their international lenses. For the prices they charge they shouldn't have such QC issues. Maybe it's OK with very iffy QC when buying Arken since at least they're super cheap.

There have been reports of even battery covers that are impossible to open in their Ares ETRs as well.

At least they have an A+ rating according to the BBB with zero complaints within the past year and only one single complaint ever. Matter of fact the sole complaint to the BBB was for an Ares ETR.

If they sold their ETRs for around 35% off their current street prices and 50% off their MSRPs then I would say they would be worth buying, the prices which only certain privileged people such as LE/Military discount normally pays.

I highly doubt they are currently selling them to certain people for half price to actually lose money on.

Chinese made scopes probably cost $100 or less to manufacture.

I personally do NOT like the Helos or other Athlon scopes nor their new overpriced Heras line that don't even use the HD glass and the Midas HD BTR G2 and Midas Tac and Ares BTR are the only ones that are pleasant enough for my own eyes to use. Believe it or not since of their lower end models below their Argos line that are cheap are actually barely acceptable to my eyes. Not all but some of them.

I personally think spending more than $600 for any scope that's made in China is not worth it when you can buy a Meopta Optika 6 5-30x56 RD MRAD for just $799.99 that's NOT made in China or a Japan made Tract Optics Tekoa 4-16x with tall target turrets and zero stop with sunshade kit and German Schott glass for $559 regular price or around $500 during their twice a year sale or $475 with your LE/Military discount and also their other Japan made Toric scopes with German Schott glass under $1000.

Also, not all Japan made scopes are great. I'd avoid any Japan Optics made (JOL) scopes such as the Apex Rival, Riton 7 series, Blackhound Emerge, and Brownells MPOs. They seem to be the China of made in Japan scopes in regards to very iffy quality and reliability.

 

[Faith7]

The Athlon Ares ETR are the best Chinese made scopes that money can buy that come close to rivaling Japan and USA made scopes. The problem with this specific line of Chinese made optics is they are still made in China and seem to be very overpriced based on country of origin since Chinese made are meant for corporate profits and not necessarily for quality. There have been confirmed reports of shoddy quality control specifically with their Ares ETR line of scopes as well as their 34mm Midas Tac 5-25x56 and some others even slipped through QC with black specs in their international lenses. For the prices they charge they shouldn't have such QC issues. Maybe it's OK with very iffy QC when buying Arken since at least they're super cheap.

There have been reports of even battery covers that are impossible to open in their Ares ETRs as well.

At least they have an A+ rating according to the BBB with zero complaints within the past year and only one single complaint ever. Matter of fact the sole complaint to the BBB was for an Ares ETR.

If they sold their ETRs for around 35% off their current street prices and 50% off their MSRPs then I would say they would be worth buying, the prices which only certain privileged people such as LE/Military discount normally pays.

I highly doubt they are currently selling them to certain people for half price to actually lose money on.

Chinese made scopes probably cost $100 or less to manufacture.

I personally do like the Helos or other Athlon scopes nor their new overpriced Heras line that don't even use the HD glass and the Midas HD BTR G2 and Midas Tac and Ares BTR are the only ones that are pleasant enough for my own eyes to use. Believe it or not since of their lower end models below their Argos line that are cheap are actually barely acceptable to my eyes. Not all but some of them.

I personally think spending more than $600 for any scope that's made in China is not worth it when you can buy a Meopta Optika 6 5-30x56 RD MRAD for just $799.99 that's NOT made in China or a Japan made Tract Optics Tekoa 4-16x with tall target turrets and zero stop with sunshade kit and German Schott glass for $559 regular price or around $500 during their twice a year sale or $475 with your LE/Military discount and also their other Japan made Toric scopes with German Schott glass under $1000.

Also, not all Japan made scopes are great. I'd avoid any Japan Optics made (JOL) scopes such as the Apex Rival, Riton 7 series, Blackhound Emerge, and Brownells MPOs. They seem to be the China of made in Japan scopes in regards to very iffy quality and reliability.

This response was helpful. It makes sense from here. But is there anything in your opinion that differentiates the ETR line from the BTR one?

By the way, I could not get my battery cap off no matter what I did and ended up scratching the scope tube when a pair of pliers slipped. I told Athlon and they decided to issue me a new scope. Regarding Athlon's CS, at first I was elated that they decided to give me a new scope, but that scope had a problem and had to be sent back. Then I wasn't so happy.

I do not have any problems with the lens, etc.

I think you wanted to put a 'not' (?) in this clause: "I personally do like the Helos or other Athon scopes nor their new overpriced Heras line. . . ."

Thanks. F7

 

[Scopeye]

This response was helpful. It makes sense from here. But is there anything in your opinion that differentiates the ETR line from the BTR one?

By the way, I could not get my battery cap off no matter what I did and ended up scratching the scope tube when a pair of pliers slipped. I told Athlon and they decided to issue me a new scope. Regarding Athlon's CS, at first I was elated that they decided to give me a new scope, but that scope had a problem and had to be sent back. Then I wasn't so happy.

I do not have any problems with the lens, etc.

I think you wanted to put a 'not' (?) in this clause: "I personally do like the Helos or other Athon scopes nor their new overpriced Heras line. . . ."

Thanks. F7

Edited to include NOT which is what I really meant thank you for catching that.

The ETR uses Chinese UHD ED glass while the BTR uses Chinese HD glass however I doubt you'll see any significant difference unless you have them both side by side since the Chinese HD glass Athlon uses in their Midas HD, Midas Tac, and Ares BTR G2 are fantastic and in fact clearer than all of the other brands and models of Chinese made scopes sold by other popular brands I compared them to with the only exception being the Athlon Ares ETRs.

The BTR line are lighter weight and cheaper and IMHO priced right only when they go on sale. I wouldn't personally buy them at their typical regular selling price though just because of country of origin still being China.

I personally don't think it's worth investing in the Ares ETR unless you have the ability to buy from EV at a substantial discount when you could buy a Meopta Optika 6 for cheaper that's not made in China.

 

[Faith7]

Edited to include NOT which is what I really meant thank you for catching that.

The ETR uses Chinese UHD ED glass while the BTR uses Chinese HD glass however I doubt you'll see any significant difference unless you have them both side by side since the Chinese HD glass Athlon uses in their Midas HD, Midas Tac, and Ares BTR G2 are fantastic and in fact clearer than all of the other brands and models of Chinese made scopes sold by other popular brands I compared them to with the only exception being the Athlon Ares ETRs.

The BTR line are lighter weight and cheaper and IMHO priced right only when they go on sale. I wouldn't personally buy them at their typical regular selling price though just because of country of origin still being China.

I personally don't think it's worth investing in the Ares ETR unless you have the ability to buy from EV at a substantial discount when you could buy a Meopta Optika 6 for cheaper that's not made in China.

Greetings, Scopeye.

No problem for the heads up on the typo.

I copy on the ETR vs. the BTR. There are others who feel similarly to how you do about Athlon lines via-a-vis other Chinese scopes.
Since I have the ETR, things are what they are. At least it's a nice scope, even if overpriced some. I do hear good things about the Optika 6.

I had a March 4.5-28x52 for about one week but sent it back. I just could not justify the price tag. I am not saying the March was not worth it; it was just not worth it for me at this time.

Since you mention a common topic--China vs. Japan--I wonder what you think of the Nexus 1? The Nexus 2 intrigues me, but I am in a holding pattern on scopes.
F7

 

[Scopeye]

Greetings, Scopeye.

No problem for the heads up on the typo.

I copy on the ETR vs. the BTR. There are others who feel similarly to how you do about Athlon lines via-a-vis other Chinese scopes.
Since I have the ETR, things are what they are. At least it's a nice scope, even if overpriced some. I do hear good things about the Optika 6.

I had a March 4.5-28x52 for about one week but sent it back. I just could not justify the price tag. I am not saying the March was not worth it; it was just not worth it for me at this time.

Since you mention a common topic--China vs. Japan--I wonder what you think of the Nexus 1? The Nexus 2 intrigues me, but I am in a holding pattern on scopes.
F7

Element Optics is like Hawke brand Sidewinder and Frontier series IMHO insanely overpriced compared to other brands available out there.

There is a group of scope affectionados among us who often compare scopes whenever we compare notes and scopes out at the range.

None of the Element Optics scopes blew any of us away considering the prices they are currently selling them for and sadly not even at half price. However their new Theos 6-36x56 might be worth buying next time they go on sale for around $1900 or next time some dealers offer some members of our group half off discount prices as they previously got hitched on if they agreed to post favorable reviews about the brand which only one out of three actually did and it was for a piece of crap Helix with really shitty glass and the worst eyebox imagineable. I honestly think he might have even gotten it for free just to shill for the brand.

The Titan wasn't clear at maximum magnification and sent back for warranty and the replacement wasn't any better and was sold for the half price as new in box unmounted AS IS condition which he paid to let the new owner deal with it. The much cheaper Arken EP5 was pretty much just as equally terrible when compared side by side with that Titan on high magnification buy at the current Arken EP5 $397.49 sale price it might be worth it for most shooters on a tight budget. Their recent $550-$560 sale prices on the 5-25x and 3-18x Titans might be worth it for some to buy them for themselves and just return them for refund if they don't want to try the far superior Athlon Ares BTR G2 currently on sale for $565.49.

Edit to add in this category of Chinese made scopes for the current sale prices of $314.99 and $279.99 with free shipping for the Sightmark Presidio 5-30x56 and 3-18x50 34mm FFP illuminated reticle scopes with zero stops I don't think there's anything currently out there that can actually beat these for their current prices and the previous Citadel models (in which the new Presidio's improved on regarding better turrets with significantly more total elevation travel and zero stop) have already been proven to be reliable.

The Nexus 5-20x50 was compared to a cheaper Nightforce SHV which appeared to have much better glass than the Nexus. Also compared the much cheaper Ares BTR G2 and image quality and turrets seemed better on the Chinese Athlon when compared side by side 5-20x magnification to be fair. The even cheaper Arken EP5 had a more pleasant experience as well specifically side by side at 5-20x. The lowest I've seen the Nexus selling for was $900 on sale. It was also compared to the Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 and of course the Nightforce was noticeably better at 5-20x only an ounce heavier and had even more total elevation travel.

With all of this in mind, I'd personally opt for a Tract Toric 4-25x50 instead of the new Nexus 2 which I highly doubt would be as affordable as the "REGULAR PRICE" of the Tract Toric at $1494.00. December is their next typical sale of 10% off so $1350 or if you're law enforcement or military you get 15% off anytime for $1275.

Another consideration is resale value when you buy scopes and optics. When you get ripped off buying questionable optics you definitely lose a lot of money later on when you try to sell them or get stuck with them since nobody else wants them.

The March FX 4.5-28x52 couldn't go wrong at their recent under $2500 sale price. It's a true tier 1 optic at a bargain basement price. You could have sold it later after you're done using it and at least made a profit.

Next scope I am curious to try out is the Maven RS.4 5-30x56 next time it goes on sale hopefully in the $1400 range and Element Theos next time when it goes under $1900. The Tract Toric 4-25x50 is a big maybe especially since I like higher magnification scopes at least 30x but needs to be crystal clear all the way to their maximum magnification without any hint of haze whatsoever otherwise what's the point of wasting money on them.

 

[Faith7]

Element Optics is like Hawke brand Sidewinder and Frontier series IMHO insanely overpriced compared to other brands available out there.

There is a group of scope affectionados among us who often compare scopes whenever we compare notes and scopes out at the range.

None of the Element Optics scopes blew any of us away considering the prices they are currently selling them for and sadly not even at half price. However their new Theos 6-36x56 might be worth buying next time they go on sale for around $1900 or next time some dealers offer some members of our group half off discount prices as they previously got hitched on if they agreed to post favorable reviews about the brand which only one out of three actually did and it was for a piece of crap Helix with really shitty glass and the worst eyebox imagineable. I honestly think he might have even gotten it for free just to shill for the brand.

The Titan wasn't clear at maximum magnification and sent back for warranty and the replacement wasn't any better and was sold for the half price as new in box unmounted AS IS condition which he paid to let the new owner deal with it. The much cheaper Arken EP5 was pretty much just as equally terrible when compared side by side with that Titan on high magnification buy at the current Arken EP5 $397.49 sale price it might be worth it for most shooters on a tight budget. Their recent $550-$560 sale prices on the 5-25x and 3-18x Titans might be worth it for some to buy them for themselves and just return them for refund if they don't want to try the far superior Athlon Ares BTR G2 currently on sale for $565.49.

Edit to add in this category of Chinese made scopes for the current sale prices of $314.99 and $279.99 with free shipping for the Sightmark Presidio 5-30x56 and 3-18x50 34mm FFP illuminated reticle scopes with zero stops I don't think there's anything currently out there that can actually beat these for their current prices and the previous Citadel models (in which the new Presidio's improved on regarding better turrets with significantly more total elevation travel and zero stop) have already been proven to be reliable.

The Nexus 5-20x50 was compared to a cheaper Nightforce SHV which appeared to have much better glass than the Nexus. Also compared the much cheaper Ares BTR G2 and image quality and turrets seemed better on the Chinese Athlon when compared side by side 5-20x magnification to be fair. The even cheaper Arken EP5 had a more pleasant experience as well specifically side by side at 5-20x. The lowest I've seen the Nexus selling for was $900 on sale. It was also compared to the Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 and of course the Nightforce was noticeably better at 5-20x only an ounce heavier and had even more total elevation travel.

With all of this in mind, I'd personally opt for a Tract Toric 4-25x50 instead of the new Nexus 2 which I highly doubt would be as affordable as the "REGULAR PRICE" of the Tract Toric at $1494.00. December is their next typical sale of 10% off so $1350 or if you're law enforcement or military you get 15% off anytime for $1275.

Another consideration is resale value when you buy scopes and optics. When you get ripped off buying questionable optics you definitely lose a lot of money later on when you try to sell them or get stuck with them since nobody else wants them.

The March FX 4.5-28x52 couldn't go wrong at their recent under $2500 sale price. It's a true tier 1 optic at a bargain basement price. You could have sold it later after you're done using it and at least made a profit.

Next scope I am curious to try out is the Maven RS.4 5-30x56 next time it goes on sale hopefully in the $1400 range and Element Theos next time when it goes under $1900. The Tract Toric 4-25x50 is a big maybe especially since I like higher magnification scopes at least 30x but needs to be crystal clear all the way to their maximum magnification without any hint of haze whatsoever otherwise what's the point of wasting money on them.

There's a lot of helpful information here, and I appreciate the detailed response. I have avoided the temptation to try the Titan--even at $450 or $475 (used and like new), and have also passed on a like-new or two Nexus for about $900.00. For this and that reason I have not gone the way of Arkens.

I have been fortunate to get most of my optics on very good prices, so I won't get killed with resale.

Yes, I did get the March on sale for under $2,500 months ago. I copy, but that ship sailed.

I am not familiar with the Maven or the Toric.

I also have the Razor LHT 3-15x50. Some like the LHT line, and some do not. In hand-held use, it does hold a flat image with little distortion. I have not looked through it at significant distances. Yes, the turrets leave something to be desired. Light it is, though.

I do like the ZCO 4-20x50, but that probably won't happen any time soon.

If you have anything else to say, say on. If not, then take care for now, and thanks again.
F7