After seeing various reviews (including LL's video review) of the Vortex Razor I was intrigued. Sam@Vortex (and Vortex in general) seem to be listening to the market and responding with product. Not to mention that Scott at Liberty Optics is a Vortex dealer and there just isn't anyone better to buy from in my opinion. All these things, and various favorable posts by SH members, prompted me to call Scott up and get a Razor on the way.
I called Scott around noon yesterday (1300 his time), and asked if it was too late to get a Razor overnighted for a shoot I had planned today. Scott was extremely accommodating and said “no problem”. UPS sure is proud of their early AM overnight shipping, but dammit, I wanted it for today ($111 later)
. As Scott is still out of Seekins rings I also got a set of the 35mm Vortex signature rings along with the scope. Again, Scott was a pleasure to deal with, and I believe they even made a special trip to their UPS hub to get it out on time. THAT is customer service, and I think why so many of us here call Scott if he has what we want.
The scope arrived at my door at 0820 this morning. I was very anxious to check out the scope and get it mounted up and on the road. My initial impression was very favorable. The scope if BEEFY. The 35mm main tube really gives it a stout appearance. While I had some reserves about the color of the Razor, I actually liked it in person. I'm not sure what to call it, kind of a very dark earth brown / gray. Whatever you want to call it, I actually thought it was quite aesthetically pleasing. The knobs felt very nice, with the clicks being very Nightforce like. The zero stop felt very solid and nicely executed with a distinct “STOP”. I like the rubber power ring with raised and angled numbers, and thought the tiny tru-glo rods were a cute touch, although I'm not sure what real practical purpose they serve. The parallax knob had a nice resistance to it but not too stiff. I will second what some others have said though, another 1/4” or so on that knob might be nice. It's a bit stubby as it is. The illumination module is nice and lo-pro. It has very stiff clicks to the point I can not ever imagine it being accidentally turned on. I could do without the Vortex logos on the ocular bell, although they aren't as bad as USO's large advertisement on their objectives (purely a personal preference thing, I just don't care for in your face logos on my scopes). I was initially disappointed that Scott was out of Seekins rings and had to send Vortex rings. However, they appear to be extremely nice and the box says made in USA. No complaints on the rings (although I still prefer Seekins' design).
On to the “glass”... but first a disclaimer of sorts. I am not an optics expert by any means. I don't look at resolution charts or have any set method to test glass. I simply use the scope how I need to use it and see what I see. That's that. I have had USO, NF, Leupold Mk4 and VX-whatevers, Burris XTR, Trijicon, Nikon, and several “lower” brands at various times in my shooting past. All that said, I was somewhat underwhelmed by the Razor. That's the best word I can think of to describe it. The scope actually looked very nice and clear at 15X and below. I thought I noticed a lack of clarity to my eye above 15X and especially at 20X. Im pretty sure this wasn't mirage, as I noticed it the same at home right after mounting and again in the field (temp was about 45 degrees). It wasn't horrible, just an observation that may or may not fit with what others see. The glass and clarity again was very nice overall, and extremely adequate. Perhaps I expected too much with some of the hype about the scope and the “HD GLASS!” that is talked about. Speaking from memory, it looked about the same as what I recall a NF looking like, which isn't bad by any means. My USO was distinctly nicer to my eye (especially at higher powers). My buddy who I was shooting with today has a Leupold Mk4 4.5-14. I compared the two side by side (The Razor on 15X or so and the Leupy on 14X). The Razor appeared a little nicer, but honestly I couldn't see a ton of difference to my eye in those conditions at 500 yards. Again, the Razor glass LOOKS NICE, it just didn't give me much of a “wow” factor that I was hoping for. Regarding the clarity issue I seemed to be having at 20X... I think some of that may be attributed to the extremely unforgiving eye relief / placement at that power. The sweet spot for a full and clear sight picture seemed to be very small. If I moved my head just a little one way or another I would get shadowing. This was definitely annoying and after shooting 10 rounds or so at 20X I dialed down to 15X for the better picture. Perhaps I noticed this more because it was mentioned in other reviews and I was looking for it, I don't know. I do know that I noticed it and I don't recall having that issue as bad with any other higher end scope. In summary on the glass topic: I would put the Razor right around the NF (from memory). Not as nice as USO. A little better than Leupold.
So, I got to the shooting spot around 1000 and met up with my buddy and his cousin. They had already been there for about an hour, as I had to wait on the big brown truck to bring my Razor. I started off by zeroing at 100 yards. I then set the zero stop according to the manual and the Vortex instructional video on YouTube (they have some good stuff on their youtube channel by the way, kudos to Vortex for that). Everything was working great at this point and I was pleased. I ran the scope out to a couple mils elevation and back to the zero stop a couple times just to test it out. It returned to zero fine and had no issues.
We then moved out to 500 yards and started to bang some steel and break some clays. I dialed the 3.7 mils that Ballistic FTE spit out into the scope and was off to the races. We had some nice sun brakes and really lucked out with the weather (anytime you can stay dry in OR in January is a good day!)
. As noted above, I had some slight annoyances about the scope but was overall satisfied with it. One other worth mention though is the holdover dots under and to the sides of the reticle center. These are very faint. Faint to the point that I think they might be a little though to use very effectively. They're nice in the sense that they don't really busy up the sight picture at all, but my vote would be to either get rid of them altogether or make them a bit more distinct.
We started to pack up and I went to dial the elevation turret back to zero expecting to get that satisfying zero stop feeling. Not so. Around 2 mils I encountered some serious resistance and the knob bound up. My mind quickly recalled this thread, My Vortex Experience by Jpipes , in which Jpipes had a similar issue. I backed the knob off a little and tried again, no dice. Man what a kick in the groin that was. Here is my hours old $2,000 scope that now won't work, after a whopping 50 rounds. Needless to say it was a bummer of epic proportions. We packed up our targets and parted ways, and I gave Scott a call on the way home.
As usual, Scott was great to talk to. He was apparently unaware of the issue and Jpipes' previous thread regarding the subject. I talked to him again when I got home after he spoke with Vortex. Apparently there is some sort of small set screw in the elevation turret which is supposed to get some red loc-tite at the factory. Well, some didn't. Scott said that Vortex reports my scope is only the 4th (or so) that has had the issue. Jpipes, 8up (who replied in Jpipes' thread), and now mine... hmmm... so of the 4 scopes that have had the issue three are right here on the Hide?? I'm certainly not saying Vortex is fibbing, I just found it to be an interesting side note!
Scott assures me that in the end he wants me to be happy, and will do what it takes. Again, I think this is why many of us go to Scott. He advised me to call Vortex and get things rolling with their CS, which I did. I called the 1-800 number and got a hold of one of their CS representatives (Julie maybe?). I told her of the issue, to which her initial reply was “We may be able to pay the shipping on that, let me check.” That surprised me honestly. I didn't think that it would even be a question with what I've heard of their CS. Shortly after she came back on and said “Yes, we need to get that in right away.” She said she could e-mail me a return label which I now have. Recalling Jpipes' thread in which he was sent a brand new scope that day, I requested the same. Request denied. She informed me that the only reason they initially did that was because they weren't able to repair them in their facility. Now that they are, all are being returned for repair only. I didn't argue, or ask for a manager, or anything else. I hate doing that with CS reps, and shouldn't have to. While I consider the outcome certainly adequate, it really isn't anything worth writing home about. So in the end I have a broken $2,000 scope and a return shipping label after a couple hours and 50 rounds. She thought the turnaround time would be 2-4 business days, but said she wasn't sure. So if you're expecting to have the same experience Jpipes had with a brand new scope in the mail same day, don't. Apparently that was the exception and not the rule.
I really wanted the Razor to be perfect. I wanted to be so in love with it that I would never long for another scope again. That just wasn't the case. While it was working I thought it was nice, with some minor annoyances. After it quit working I pretty much lost all faith in it, which is extremely disappointing. The more I think about it the more I am leaning towards going a different route. My thought is: If the factory forgot to put red loc-tite on some set screw which locks up my elevation knob, what else did they forget? I'm not sure if I can use my repaired Razor and have any trust in it at all now.
As for the Razor (when it was working) and the Vortex CS: Certainly adequate, but nothing to write home about.
As for Scott and Liberty Optics: A class act as always and a pleasure to deal with.
That's my experience. As always, YMMV (perhaps greatly). Sorry for the long review, but it at least made me feel better about the whole thing. I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on what you would do...? Get it repaired and run it, or go a different route? Thanks... I gotta go print my return shipping label...
Oh, some pics:
A little UPS overnight love courtesy of Liberty Optics:
Scope and rings in packaging:
Nicely packaged, which some decent accessories:
All mounted up:
100 yard zero:
Pretty nice looking scope:
Out at 500 yards:
View from the "driver's seat":
I called Scott around noon yesterday (1300 his time), and asked if it was too late to get a Razor overnighted for a shoot I had planned today. Scott was extremely accommodating and said “no problem”. UPS sure is proud of their early AM overnight shipping, but dammit, I wanted it for today ($111 later)
The scope arrived at my door at 0820 this morning. I was very anxious to check out the scope and get it mounted up and on the road. My initial impression was very favorable. The scope if BEEFY. The 35mm main tube really gives it a stout appearance. While I had some reserves about the color of the Razor, I actually liked it in person. I'm not sure what to call it, kind of a very dark earth brown / gray. Whatever you want to call it, I actually thought it was quite aesthetically pleasing. The knobs felt very nice, with the clicks being very Nightforce like. The zero stop felt very solid and nicely executed with a distinct “STOP”. I like the rubber power ring with raised and angled numbers, and thought the tiny tru-glo rods were a cute touch, although I'm not sure what real practical purpose they serve. The parallax knob had a nice resistance to it but not too stiff. I will second what some others have said though, another 1/4” or so on that knob might be nice. It's a bit stubby as it is. The illumination module is nice and lo-pro. It has very stiff clicks to the point I can not ever imagine it being accidentally turned on. I could do without the Vortex logos on the ocular bell, although they aren't as bad as USO's large advertisement on their objectives (purely a personal preference thing, I just don't care for in your face logos on my scopes). I was initially disappointed that Scott was out of Seekins rings and had to send Vortex rings. However, they appear to be extremely nice and the box says made in USA. No complaints on the rings (although I still prefer Seekins' design).
On to the “glass”... but first a disclaimer of sorts. I am not an optics expert by any means. I don't look at resolution charts or have any set method to test glass. I simply use the scope how I need to use it and see what I see. That's that. I have had USO, NF, Leupold Mk4 and VX-whatevers, Burris XTR, Trijicon, Nikon, and several “lower” brands at various times in my shooting past. All that said, I was somewhat underwhelmed by the Razor. That's the best word I can think of to describe it. The scope actually looked very nice and clear at 15X and below. I thought I noticed a lack of clarity to my eye above 15X and especially at 20X. Im pretty sure this wasn't mirage, as I noticed it the same at home right after mounting and again in the field (temp was about 45 degrees). It wasn't horrible, just an observation that may or may not fit with what others see. The glass and clarity again was very nice overall, and extremely adequate. Perhaps I expected too much with some of the hype about the scope and the “HD GLASS!” that is talked about. Speaking from memory, it looked about the same as what I recall a NF looking like, which isn't bad by any means. My USO was distinctly nicer to my eye (especially at higher powers). My buddy who I was shooting with today has a Leupold Mk4 4.5-14. I compared the two side by side (The Razor on 15X or so and the Leupy on 14X). The Razor appeared a little nicer, but honestly I couldn't see a ton of difference to my eye in those conditions at 500 yards. Again, the Razor glass LOOKS NICE, it just didn't give me much of a “wow” factor that I was hoping for. Regarding the clarity issue I seemed to be having at 20X... I think some of that may be attributed to the extremely unforgiving eye relief / placement at that power. The sweet spot for a full and clear sight picture seemed to be very small. If I moved my head just a little one way or another I would get shadowing. This was definitely annoying and after shooting 10 rounds or so at 20X I dialed down to 15X for the better picture. Perhaps I noticed this more because it was mentioned in other reviews and I was looking for it, I don't know. I do know that I noticed it and I don't recall having that issue as bad with any other higher end scope. In summary on the glass topic: I would put the Razor right around the NF (from memory). Not as nice as USO. A little better than Leupold.
So, I got to the shooting spot around 1000 and met up with my buddy and his cousin. They had already been there for about an hour, as I had to wait on the big brown truck to bring my Razor. I started off by zeroing at 100 yards. I then set the zero stop according to the manual and the Vortex instructional video on YouTube (they have some good stuff on their youtube channel by the way, kudos to Vortex for that). Everything was working great at this point and I was pleased. I ran the scope out to a couple mils elevation and back to the zero stop a couple times just to test it out. It returned to zero fine and had no issues.
We then moved out to 500 yards and started to bang some steel and break some clays. I dialed the 3.7 mils that Ballistic FTE spit out into the scope and was off to the races. We had some nice sun brakes and really lucked out with the weather (anytime you can stay dry in OR in January is a good day!)
We started to pack up and I went to dial the elevation turret back to zero expecting to get that satisfying zero stop feeling. Not so. Around 2 mils I encountered some serious resistance and the knob bound up. My mind quickly recalled this thread, My Vortex Experience by Jpipes , in which Jpipes had a similar issue. I backed the knob off a little and tried again, no dice. Man what a kick in the groin that was. Here is my hours old $2,000 scope that now won't work, after a whopping 50 rounds. Needless to say it was a bummer of epic proportions. We packed up our targets and parted ways, and I gave Scott a call on the way home.
As usual, Scott was great to talk to. He was apparently unaware of the issue and Jpipes' previous thread regarding the subject. I talked to him again when I got home after he spoke with Vortex. Apparently there is some sort of small set screw in the elevation turret which is supposed to get some red loc-tite at the factory. Well, some didn't. Scott said that Vortex reports my scope is only the 4th (or so) that has had the issue. Jpipes, 8up (who replied in Jpipes' thread), and now mine... hmmm... so of the 4 scopes that have had the issue three are right here on the Hide?? I'm certainly not saying Vortex is fibbing, I just found it to be an interesting side note!
Scott assures me that in the end he wants me to be happy, and will do what it takes. Again, I think this is why many of us go to Scott. He advised me to call Vortex and get things rolling with their CS, which I did. I called the 1-800 number and got a hold of one of their CS representatives (Julie maybe?). I told her of the issue, to which her initial reply was “We may be able to pay the shipping on that, let me check.” That surprised me honestly. I didn't think that it would even be a question with what I've heard of their CS. Shortly after she came back on and said “Yes, we need to get that in right away.” She said she could e-mail me a return label which I now have. Recalling Jpipes' thread in which he was sent a brand new scope that day, I requested the same. Request denied. She informed me that the only reason they initially did that was because they weren't able to repair them in their facility. Now that they are, all are being returned for repair only. I didn't argue, or ask for a manager, or anything else. I hate doing that with CS reps, and shouldn't have to. While I consider the outcome certainly adequate, it really isn't anything worth writing home about. So in the end I have a broken $2,000 scope and a return shipping label after a couple hours and 50 rounds. She thought the turnaround time would be 2-4 business days, but said she wasn't sure. So if you're expecting to have the same experience Jpipes had with a brand new scope in the mail same day, don't. Apparently that was the exception and not the rule.
I really wanted the Razor to be perfect. I wanted to be so in love with it that I would never long for another scope again. That just wasn't the case. While it was working I thought it was nice, with some minor annoyances. After it quit working I pretty much lost all faith in it, which is extremely disappointing. The more I think about it the more I am leaning towards going a different route. My thought is: If the factory forgot to put red loc-tite on some set screw which locks up my elevation knob, what else did they forget? I'm not sure if I can use my repaired Razor and have any trust in it at all now.
As for the Razor (when it was working) and the Vortex CS: Certainly adequate, but nothing to write home about.
As for Scott and Liberty Optics: A class act as always and a pleasure to deal with.
That's my experience. As always, YMMV (perhaps greatly). Sorry for the long review, but it at least made me feel better about the whole thing. I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on what you would do...? Get it repaired and run it, or go a different route? Thanks... I gotta go print my return shipping label...
Oh, some pics:
A little UPS overnight love courtesy of Liberty Optics:
Scope and rings in packaging:
Nicely packaged, which some decent accessories:
All mounted up:
100 yard zero:
Pretty nice looking scope:
Out at 500 yards:
View from the "driver's seat":
