Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

[polytech]

I'm looking to get a spotter with a milling reticle. The two contenders are the Vortex Razor HD w/ ranging eye piece, and the Leupold MK4 spotter with the TMR reticle. I'm currently running a vortex razor on my rifle with the ebr-2b reticle so I'm looking for something to be similar to this for ease of use.
This will see most of its use as a spotter on unknown distance steel targets, and as a spotter for precision competition (ie: Mammoth sniper challenge team matches) Use as a spotter for the range and on hunts will just be a bonus.

I have also considered adding the USO spotter to the running, but the reviews that I have read for it seem to be 50/50. I know that USO's are bomb proof, but I probably will not be able to get my hands on an optic prior to purchase.

I have been able to us a bushnell spotter, but with the lack of current availablility, and quaility of the optic it seems like something I would upgrade quickly so I think it would be better to just get something much better off the bat.

So what are the Hide's opinions on these spotters?

 

[chaser_2332]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

This is where leupold shines, the vortex is a good spotter but your limited at fixed 30x. I'm not impressed by the USO spotters in terms of glass and eye relief. The vortex has great glass but I like being able to dial down to catch trace with the leupold.

 

[ZackOwns]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

I would go leupold if I were buying for myself.. They are very clear, built like tanks & have a nice FOV..

Ive been behind a USO spotter & wasnt as impressed as i was with the scopes they make.. Thats just my honest opinion..

Never had time behind the vortex spotter but havw owned the PST line. I've heard great things about them..

 

[koz]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

I've used both the Vortex and the Leupold. I own the Leupold. The glass in both scopes is clear. The Mk4 has been very durable and it seemed a LOT lighter than the Vortex. 37 oz vs 65.7 oz. I also like the FFP 12-40x of the Leupold vs the fixed 30x reticle of the Vortex.

 

[Trubester88]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

I guess this will force me to buy a Leupold spotting scope. Are the advantages obvious buying the 20-60x Leupold or can I get away with the 12-40x shooting to 600 yards with a .308?

 

[Emouse]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

Interesting thread,...there really does seem a lack of decent spotting scopes with a selection of suitable ranging rets?

I am running a PM2 with MRAD MSR ret and also am seeking a compatible spotter.

Does anyone have some range time with this spotter and ret and can comment further?????

 

[Just Jim]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

The wife and I purchased the Vortex, and used it last year at Gunsite, where milling UKD targets was the order of the day. We were completely satisfied with its performance.

Yes, it's heavy, but doesn't feel excessively so when stowed in the pack. I haven't found the fixed 30X to be a disadvantage.

Glass quality is very, very good - much better than the old fixed power Leupold we were using previously.

Cheers... Jim

 

[Big Dog Steel]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

I was in your exact same shoes a few weeks ago. While I dearly love both of my vortex Razors w/ EBR-3 reticles I elected to go with the Leupy 12-40 w/ a TMR reticle. So far I have been happy with it. It does exactly what I thought it would do. The reticle is good enough for ranging. The magnification range is strong enough to view far objects, but can be dialed down to see a moving object. The field of view and glass are decent.

My main reason for going with the leupy though was size and weight. It is considerably smaller and lighter than the vortex. If I am already packing a 20lb rifle, magazines, bottle of water, ammunition, rangefinder, data book, etc. every little bit helps.

 

[Bass Ackwardz]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

The Mk4 spotter was one of the best purchases I have made in the recent past. Its crystal clear, and built like a tank. I got a smoking deal on the mil dot version, so I bought it instead of paying almost twice as much for the TMR reticle.

Bill

 

[Scott_at_Vortex]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

Just an FYI guys. The new MOA and newly designed Mil reticle eye piece's are now available for the Razor HD spotter

Scott

 

[fusiachi]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting thread,...there really does seem a lack of decent spotting scopes with a selection of suitable ranging rets?

I am running a PM2 with MRAD MSR ret and also am seeking a compatible spotter.

Does anyone have some range time with this spotter and ret and can comment further?????

</div></div>
Yeah, if I had any hope for Shot '12 it was for an increased selection of spotters with ranging reticles. At least we got Sigs with diamond plate slides...

 

[Aries64]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Polytech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm looking to get a spotter with a milling reticle. The two contenders are the Vortex Razor HD w/ ranging eye piece, and the Leupold MK4 spotter with the TMR reticle. I'm currently running a vortex razor on my rifle with the ebr-2b reticle so I'm looking for something to be similar to this for ease of use.</div></div>
Since you want a spotter with a reticle similar to the EBR-2B in your Razor on your rifle and Leupold doesn't offer anything remotely similar to the EBR-2B that pretty much narrows it down, doesn't it?. The closest reticle USO has is probably the Gen 2 XR, but I'm not sure if they offer it for their Fieldscope. The Gen 2 XR has MIL and half-MIL hold points and a "Tree" for holds and is MIL-based but thats' where the similarities end.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Polytech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This will see most of its use as a spotter on unknown distance steel targets, and as a spotter for precision competition (ie: Mammoth sniper challenge team matches) Use as a spotter for the range and on hunts will just be a bonus.</div></div>
Personally I would go with the Leupold Mark 4 (or Golden Ring 12-40X60mm retrofitted with a reticle) for your intended use because in my experience a compact, lightweight, straight-through scope that is easily hand-held is easier and faster to use in the field for moving targets. Since the Leupolds' are variable power you can dial the magnification down to increase your FOV if and when you need to, which obviously isn't possible with a fixed-power Eyepiece. And in addition to the Mildot, Leupold offers the TMR, the P4F, and Horus reticles in the Mark 4 and as retrofits for the Golden Ring.

The Razor is larger and heavier than the Mark 4 and the Golden Ring 12-40X[60mm] scopes so it isn't as easy or convenient to hold in-hand while spotting. On a tripod equipped with a pistol grip its' a wash. However, if the larger footprint and heavier weight of the Razor don't bother you I highly recommend an <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Optolyth Compact</span></span>. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Optolyth Compacts</span></span> are available in both "Straight" and "Angled" models in both HD (Fluorite glass) and non-HD versions. Optolyth offers 30X and 45X MIL-based Eyepieces with <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">rotating reticles</span></span>. <span style="font-weight: bold">The rotating reticle allows the reticle to be oriented to be "square" with the target area regardless of the spotting scope's orientation withon it's "collar", which is something that cannot be done with reticles that do not rotate.</span> In my experience my [80mm] Optolyth S80 HD Compact's image quality is better than the Razor 20-60X[85mm] HD's image quality.

AFAIK the rotating reticle is a feature unique to <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Optolyth</span></span>. The kicker is that <span style="font-style: italic">with Eyepieces attached to their respective scopes</span> the 80mm Optolyth Compacts are no longer than the 65mm Zeiss (the Optolyth 80mm Compacts are actually shorter than the 65mm Swarovskis') as well as being much shorter and a little lighter than the Swarovski 80mm and the Zeiss and Razor 85mm scopes. For an detailed "review" of the Optolyth S80 (angled) Compact, read my <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Optolyth S80 HD Compact Spotting Scope"</span></span> write-up.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Polytech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have also considered adding the USO spotter to the running, but the reviews that I have read for it seem to be 50/50. I know that USO's are bomb proof, but I probably will not be able to get my hands on an optic prior to purchase.</div></div>
The problem with USO is their Quality Control. Even though USO has become ISO 900<span style="font-style: italic">X</span> Certified, from what I have seen their products are still of inconsistent quality. It seems that quite a few scopes have mechanical issues out-of-the-box that take several trips back and forth before the scope(s) are 100%, some have clarity issues due to a lens/some lenses not being polished clean. My SN-3 3.2-17X44mm Lo-Pro ERGO had so-so clarity, and a greenish film was obvious on the reticle lens when the illumination was switched-on higher than "4". It also had a minor burr on the magnification ring threads that could be felt between 9X and 12X.

Don't get me wrong - USO sometimes produces scopes that are GTG the first time, and USO offers something no other scope manufacturer offers: highly customizable scopes at competitve prices. <span style="font-style: italic">Low volume</span> and/or <span style="font-style: italic">"one-off"</span> units are hard to do on custom products. However, the sweetness of a custom scope at a good price is often negated when weighed against the high incidence of scopes that require multiple return trips to USO to fix issues that should have kept the scopes from leaving the USO facility in the first place. That may seem harsh, but its' an accurate assessment. As the saying goes <span style="font-style: italic">"It is what is it, and thats' all that it is."</span>

People often talk about USO having the best Customer Service. Its' possible that USO's <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">post sale</span></span> Customer Service may be the best - they'll fix nearly any issue(s) no questions asked. From what I've seen Vortex is way up there, and I had excellent service with fast turnaround when I had a turret conversion on a PMII 5-25X[56mm] done by S & B's Service Center in the States. However, to me <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">the very best Customer Service is from the company whose scopes rarely, if ever - need to be worked-on due to factory defect(s).</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Note to John Williams III and his crew at USO:</span></span> USO is an American company based in California and I'm pulling for you, but you need to show me and everyone else that USO can and will make every scope <span style="font-style: italic">right</span> the first time.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Polytech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been able to us a bushnell spotter, but with the lack of current availablility, and quality of the optic it seems like something I would upgrade quickly so I think it would be better to just get something much better off the bat.</div></div>
My brother has one of the original Bushnell Excursion FFP Tactical Spotting Scopes. When initailly released, these spotters had a high incidence of defects, and a high percentage of the units sold through Liberty Optics and SWFA (probably others as well) were returned under warranty. My brother got lucky and his doesn't have any of the problems that affected many of them. Two problems that I remember off the top of my head were spots, i.e. dust on the reticle, and the reticle "jumping" when magnification was changed.

If you happened to get a good one, it was a great deal and the price/performance/features ratio was super. Decent clarity and a FFP MIL reticle at around $350.00 street price at the time was awesome.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Polytech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what are the Hide's opinions on these spotters? </div></div>
If you've read my post thus far you already know my answers. I didn't vote because the manner in which you plan to use the optic(s) within your particular usage scenarios can make a big difference in the usability of each optic for said usages, and voting without knowing the particulars really doesn't make sense.


Keith

 

[Aries64]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting thread,...there really does seem a lack of decent spotting scopes with a selection of suitable ranging rets?

I am running a PM2 with MRAD MSR ret and also am seeking a compatible spotter.</div></div>
What about a Leupold Mark 4 or Golden Ring 12-40X[60mm] with a P4F reticle in it? As I'm sure you're aware, the MSR reticle's origins were the P4/P4F reticles, and the MSR is sort of an improved version of the P4/P4F reticle but with much-improved ranging capabilities because of the added ranging bracket and ranging scale broken down to 0.1 MIL increments. As such, using a spotting scope with a P4F reticle in conjuction with an MSR-equipped PMII should be natural for you.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone have some range time with this spotter and ret and can comment further?????
</div></div>
I've used a Swarovski ATS 65, Swarovski ATM 65 HD, a Zeiss 65T FL, a Leupold 12-40X60 Golden Ring (no reticle), a Mark 4 12-40X[60mm] with Mildot reticle, a Bushnell Excursion FFP Tactical with Mildot reticle. I've also been able to compare a Razor HD [20-60X85mm] and a Zeiss 65T FL with Zeiss 15-45X/20-60X alongside my Optolyth S80 HD Compact with my 20-60X Eyepiece, and the S80 HD Compact has better image quality compared to the Leupolds, the Razor HD, and of course the Bushnell. However, the Swarovski and Zeiss 65mms' hold their own in all but the darkest light.

Normally, when an Eyepiece with a reticle is used on a spotting scope the scope must be positioned within it's mount and/or collar in manner that allows the reticle to still be oriented "square" with the target and/or horizon, allowing the target to be measured accurately and to allow accurate correction calls by an individual "spotting" for a shooter. Without the ability to compensate for a spotting scope's cant when placed on uneven ground and/or when the scope is rotated within it's collar, the reticle will often be skewed in relation to the target area/horizon.

However, if the reticle can be rotated within the Eyepiece itself (such as with the Optolyth MIL Eyepieces), the reticle can always be oriented to be square in relation to the target and/or horizon. This is highly desirable on a "straight" spotting scope, but indispensable for an angled spotting scope because the Eyepiece is at a 45-degree angle in relation to the Scope Body.

For illustrative purposes below are some photos of my Optolyth S80 (Angled) HD Compact spotting scope set-up for prone spotting. In the first two photos below the (45-degree angled) spotting scope has been rotated in it's Collar so that the Eyepiece and Reticle at at the 12:00 position and the reticle is "square to the horizon. This is the only position an Eyepiece with a non-rotating reticle actually aligns the reticle parallel with the horizon.

In the second and third photos the (45-degree angled) spotting scope has been rotated in it's Collar approximately 45-degrees to the Right. This would normally cause the reticle to sit at a 45-degree angle in relation to the target area. However, the reticle in the Eyepiece on the scope has been rotated approximately 45-degrees to the Left to keep the reticle perfectly aligned with the target area. In the fifth, sixth, and seventh photos the (45-degree angled) spotting scope has been rotated in it's Collar approximately 45-degrees to the Left. This would normally cause the reticle to sit at a 45-degree angle in relation to the target area. However, the reticle in the Eyepiece on the scope has been rotated approximately 45-degrees to the Right to keep the reticle perfectly aligned with the target area.

The eigth and ninth photos are through-the-scope photos shot hand-held in fading light, 90+ degree heat, and over a freeway, so there is a bit of mirage, crappy air, and camera shake that muddies the image a bit. They are not really respresentative of the image quality of an Optolyth HD, but they do show part of the Optolyth MIL reticle.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Angled" spotter set-up with Eyepiece at 12:00. This is the only position an Eyepiece with a non-rotating reticle actually aligns the
reticle parallel with the horizon. A "straight" spotting scope can fake a parallel horizon if rotated in 90 degree increments only:</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Gitzo GT1550T Traveller + RRS BH-30 LR and Optolyth S80 HD Compact w/30X WA MIL Reticle Eyepiece. Here the scope is set-up to
the Left of the shooter/spotter. The spotting scope has been rotated to the Right within it's Collar, while the Eyepiece's Reticle has
been rotated to the Left to remain "square" with the target area:</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Gitzo GT1550T Traveller + RRS BH-30 LR and Optolyth S80 HD Compact w/30X WA MIL Reticle Eyepiece. Here the scope is set-up to
the Right of the shooter/spotter. The spotting scope has been rotated to the Left within it's Collar, while the Eyepiece's Reticle has
been rotated to the Right to remain "square" with the target area:</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Through-the-scope photo of Optolyth 30X Wide Angle MIL Reticle Eyepiece. The "+" at -5 MILs' Elevation is at 1,032 yards:</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Crappy, off-center, through-the-scope photo of the Optolyth MIL-based "Ranging" Reticle:</span></span>

Keith

 

[Longeye]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

Aries64,
Thanks for taking the time. Those are worthwhile posts.

 

[Aries64]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longeye</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Aries64,
Thanks for taking the time. Those are worthwhile posts. </div></div>
Thanks <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Longeye</span></span> - <span style="font-style: italic">I'm just here to help".</span>


Keith

 

[11B-B4]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

I used the mark 4 spotter in the military pretty extensively and can say its a must to have a spotter that goes downtown to20ish power. I took notes on watching trace over several years and found that 80%I of the time trace was best viewed at 18x.

I bought the Bushnell FTP excursion from liberty optics when they first came out and must have really lucked out. The glass quality seems very similar to the leupy that I compared side by side. Several snipers said they could see litteraly no difference in the two. I never had anything negative to say about it.

I would like to upgrade to "better" glass in my spottr, even though the bushy glass is quite good. But until a company can provide similar specs as theleupy/ bushy spotter I won't be doing so. However should that happen I hope the glass is very high end German. Until then I'm waiting around and watching.

 

[kydron]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

I've been using the Mark IV 12-40 TMR for some time. Out of those options I it the best. Its compact, has decent glass quality, and is built very well. I've used it to spot to 950Y and have been able to spot misses/splash and hits reliably on KD/UKD steel silhouettes. Ranging on UKD targets works well, although I wish the reticle was a bit thinner at the higher magnifications.

It is also one of the few that has a large amount of aftermarket support in regards to NV/Laser/Camera integration and custom mounting systems (look up surveillance systems by Cadex, Mcree, Larue, Ashbury Intl., Badger Ord, etc.). All of these systems utilize the Mark IV.

I'm not thrilled with the increased pricing on these. They were at least $300.00 cheaper when I purchased mine a few years ago. However, I still think it offers a good value.

 

[Drake Associates]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

CADEX Surveillance Kit

CADEX Kit Link

 

[Northland]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

MK4, had mine awhile without issues

 

[JL]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

Got MK4 with H58.

+compact
+solid
+very good integrated protection "bag"
+good image quality for the price

In any case, invest money on good tripod. Its almost as important than scope itself.

 

[solst_ice]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

Very nice thread and at the right time. I'd like to buy my 1st spotting scope, but still can't decide between the Leupold Mark4 / Golden Ring, Vortex Razor and Optolyth.

Best would be a mix of them in a complete new scope...

I'd like to be able to measure the distance of the targets independently from the magnification.
-> Leupold only

The scope should contain HD glass
-> Optolyth, Vortex Razor, Golden Ring

The reticle should be rotatable.
-> Optolyth only


Does someone know, how the Mark4 20-60 x 80 compares to the 12-40 x 60 ? Interesting point about magnification from 11B-B4 . Does someone use a magnification over 40x regularly?

I can't find any specs of the Mark4 20-60 x 80 at Leupold's page. Does it contain HD glass? How can a Golden Ring HD be retrofitted to a TMR version?

 

[Aries64]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: solst_ice</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very nice thread and at the right time. I'd like to buy my 1st spotting scope, but still can't decide between the Leupold Mark4 / Golden Ring, Vortex Razor and Optolyth.

Best would be a mix of them in a complete new scope...

I'd like to be able to measure the distance of the targets independently from the magnification.
-> Leupold only

The scope should contain HD glass
-> Optolyth, Vortex Razor, Golden Ring

The reticle should be rotatable.
-> Optolyth only</div></div>
Yep.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: solst</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does someone know, how the Mark4 20-60 x 80 compares to the 12-40 x 60 ?</div></div>
I didn't make it out o SHOT this year, so I didn't see the Mark 4 20-60X[80] let alone used one alongside the venerable Mark 4 12-40X[60]. I'd like compare hose two side-by-side.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: solst</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting point about magnification from 11B-B4 . Does someone use a magnification over 40x regularly?</div></div>
I usually spot for others and view trace through my riflescope, and if not using my riflescope I'm using my S80 HD Compact with the 30X MIL Eyepiece threaded-on - so "No". If I crank-up the magnification it's because I want to see the target up close, not to view trace.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: solst</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't find any specs of the Mark4 20-60 x 80 at Leupold's page. Does it contain HD glass?</div></div>
Optics Planet has some of the Mark 4 20-60X[80] specifications listed on their web site. The description makes no mention of having HD lenses, and no where I've looked advertises the old Mark 4 12-40X[60] as having HD lenses. Below is a link to the 20-60x80 Mark 4 Tactical Spotter at Optics Planet:

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Leupold 20-60x80 Mark 4 Tactical Water Proof Spotting Scope</span></span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: solst</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How can a Golden Ring HD be retrofitted to a TMR version?</div></div>
Send your scope to Leupold and they can install a TMR, H32, H36, or plain Mil Dot reticle in your scope. They don't have it listed but I know that they've also installed the P4F as well. Call first for a quote and shippng instructions.


Keith

 

[CapDog]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

I've used both and still have both in inventory.

The Leupold is more compact and lighter. Most spotting was done at 15X for the wider field of view. Nothing wrong with it other than we couldn't get it in MOA.

The Razor was purchased as all of our rifle scopes are MOA and calling corrections while speaking the same language is more desirable. The Razor HD glass is superior to the Leupold in my opinion. Thanks to the wide angle 30X lens spotting is very easy and the field of view rivals the Leupold at lower settings.

I prefer the RazorHD

 

[solst_ice]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

As all my optics are mil based so far, the leupold would probably fit best. Thank you!

 

[solst_ice]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

Hello Keith,

sorry for replying late, have been on a business trip these days.
Great Info, thank you! I've tried to spot with my riflescope, but it's magnification ends at 12x and measurements are not as easy as I would like them to have.

How do you stabilize your gun when spotting for others? I've got a relative large wobble zone even in prone position.

Bottom line, the Lupi Mark 4 12-40X[60] looks most interesting to me.
Unfortunately, it seems I can hardly find them in europe -( .
So probably i have to stick to the non HD version -(

kind regards, solst_ice

 

[Aries64]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: solst_ice</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello Keith,

sorry for replying late, have been on a business trip these days.
Great Info, thank you! I've tried to spot with my riflescope, but it's magnification ends at 12x and measurements are not as easy as I would like them to have.</div></div>
No problem <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">solst_ice</span></span>. Sometimes people reply back, and sometimes they don't.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: solst_ice</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you stabilize your gun when spotting for others? I've got a relative large wobble zone even in prone position.</div></div>
The front of my rifle is supported by a bipod, and the buttstock rides on a small bean bag. Small elevation changes/fine-tuning is accomplished by squeezing the bean bag. If you don't have a bean bag, depending upon your stock you can either rest the buttstock on top of the back of your open hand or your fist.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: solst_ice</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bottom line, the Lupi Mark 4 12-40X[60] looks most interesting to me.
Unfortunately, it seems I can hardly find them in europe -( .
So probably i have to stick to the non HD version -(

kind regards, solst_ice </div></div>
I pretty sure that the Mark 4 is regulated by ITAR regulations, so you may have a hard time finding one over there. Whatever you decide to go with I wish you luck.


Keith

 

[solst_ice]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

Thank you!

yep, seems the list of products regulated by ITAR is increasing.
Insane situation. And many of the optics from europe (scopes especially) are going to the US shortly after production, because of the strong market there.

 

[Lucror]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

However, if the reticle can be rotated within the Eyepiece itself (such as with the Optolyth MIL Eyepieces), the reticle can always be oriented to be square in relation to the target and/or horizon. This is highly desirable on a "straight" spotting scope, but indispensable for an angled spotting scope because the Eyepiece is at a 45-degree angle in relation to the Scope Body. </div></div>

Can the reticle in the Leupold Mk4 be rotated?

Rgds

L

 

[Aries64]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lucror</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

However, if the reticle can be rotated within the Eyepiece itself (such as with the Optolyth MIL Eyepieces), the reticle can always be oriented to be square in relation to the target and/or horizon. This is highly desirable on a "straight" spotting scope, but indispensable for an angled spotting scope because the Eyepiece is at a 45-degree angle in relation to the Scope Body. </div></div>

Can the reticle in the Leupold Mk4 be rotated?

Rgds

L </div></div>
No, it can't. The reticle in the Mark 4 is fixed, so you can't rotate the reticle without rotating the spotting scope itself. That's the issue with with non-rotating reticles in spotting scopes.

As an aside, if you're going to use quotes, please learn how to use the <span style="font-style: italic">"Quote"</span> function and to be sure to quote the correct person. Your use of the <span style="font-style: italic">"Quote"</span> function for the paragraph you quoted is incorrect and makes it appear as if <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Emouse"</span></span> stated the quoted paragraph, when <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Emouse"</span></span> actually originally quoted me. As a matter of fact, what you quoted appears to be from another post or from a PM string between <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Emouse</span></span> and I. In effect, you mis-quoted <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Emouse</span></span>. No one likes to be mis-quoted.


Keith

 

[jdr724]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

Wouldn't using a rotating ball tripod mount remove this issue with the Mark4? At least for most common uneven ground situations?

[/quote]
No, it can't. The reticle in the Mark 4 is fixed, so you can't rotate the reticle without rotating the spotting scope itself. That's the issue with with non-rotating reticles in spotting scopes.

Keith [/quote]

 

[Aries64]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">jdr724</span></span> -

Like <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Lucror</span></span>, you also need to learn how to use the <span style="font-style: italic">"Quote" button</span>, as your incorrect use of quotes, reverse-chronological order, and snipets of previous posts can change the context of what was originally written by the poster(s).

Here's what the snipet of my last reply in this thread should have looked like along with your question to me:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...No, it can't. The reticle in the Mark 4 is fixed, so you can't rotate the reticle without rotating the spotting scope itself. That's the issue with with non-rotating reticles in spotting scopes.

Keith</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdr724</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wouldn't using a rotating ball tripod mount remove this issue with the Mark4? At least for most common uneven ground situations?</div></div>
Also, if you could comprehend the meaning in the snipet that you "quoted" me from, you would have understood that your question is moot in the context of the sentences that you snipped. What does <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">..."<span style="color: #FF0000">The reticle in the Mark 4 is fixed, so you can't rotate the reticle without rotating the spotting scope itself"...</span></span></span> mean to you?

<span style="font-weight: bold">If a scope is mounted to a ball head and the ball head is rotated you are rotating the spotting scope itself - just as I said in the bold red italicized sentence above. You even quoted me stating that. </span>You really need to work on your <span style="font-style: italic">reading comprehension.</span> Please take the time to think about and understand what has been said before you post, as your question was and is invalid on it's face.


Keith

 

[Wnick308]

Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?

How much does that CADEX Surveillance Kit cost?