Wait, you're not trusting a Strike Eagle 1-6 on your duty AR ? It has BDC & illumination!Birddog, remember this one out off of Simco a couple of years back?
What about Vortex's support to the Backcountry Hunters and Anglers? It looks like they're still listed as a "Platinum Plus" sponsor.
https://www.backcountryhunters.org/corporate_partners
I shudder when I see LEO's with Vortex products on their duty weapons. Trust your life to Vortex? Nope. Fuck that.
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Rifle Scopes Vortex Viper PST Gen II Turret Failure
- Thread starter Mike Ryan
- Start date
Dude, I see that shit more often than I'd like to admit. I've seen three guys with fucking Strike Fires on their duty rifles...not only are they obnoxiously heavy, they're straight fucking garbage.
I usually try to give my disclaimer re: Vortex and myself, which is the fact that I have had the misfortune of owning and returning a number of their scopes. And yes, a couple of them were Razors from both generations. Additionally, I have seen a number of Vortex optics go TU on friends and fellow competitors, to the point where it's like, "meh, it's a Vortex." Basically, the breakdown is expected.
But don't fear, they have an unlimited lifetime warranty! You don't even need the receipt!
With Vortex it is simple. Very simple in fact. If it is not a Razor, and specifically a Razor either made in Japan or in the USA. DO NOT BUY.
Razor = Good. Rest of Vortex Line = Bad.
Non Razor Vortex products are toys at best.
Razor = Good. Rest of Vortex Line = Bad.
Non Razor Vortex products are toys at best.
Are they still toys if you drive a 15 year old truck and crocs? Trying to work out what makes me a real man in this life and death sport.
I'm not very good at this PRS game but at least if I can look like the real deal no one will question my man hood.
The equipment should fit the mission. I'm not going to use a cable tie to wrap around a stack of index cards with notes on them when a rubber band will do. And I'm not going to use a rubber band to secure a bundle of heavy duty electric cables.
JB Weld will stop a radiator leak for a while but I better be looking for a new one. I won't cook a turkey over a Coleman burner when an oven is designed for that task.
The same goes with the Razors versus the Vipers.
I have a lot of rifles with the Vortex non-Razor scopes on them that are great at what they do. On the other hand, for shooting at 1000 yards and beyond I have Razors on the rifle.
I have a couple of Crosman CO2 air guns that have Leapers 4X scope on them for kids to use. They are fine for the task that the air guns were designed for. I won't put an expensive Viper on them.
I've had three of Viper scopes that had problems with the zero-stops. It was frustrating and pissed me off because of the ammo that was wasted by sighting them in.
That was three of Vipers out of the dozen or more that I own. I didn't like the inconvenience of sending them off and waiting to get them back BUT Vortex got them back to me in a reasonable time and repaired.
Confession time here: Several years ago, I purchased some Crossfire scopes and put them on some .22 LR rifles and air guns. I was reading the setting on the old Craftsman torque drive incorrectly and using much more force than necessary to tighten the ring screws.
The result was broken cross hairs. That happened to three scopes. Vortex sent me back three new scopes every time even though it was my fault!
After the third Crossfire scope broke I talked with the technician at Vortex and he asked me if I was using the correct torque setting. I felt like saying; "Look here! I know what I'm doing."
I bit my tongue and said that I will double check the torque settings. The old Craftsman torque drive has a weird clear plastic thing used to line up the torque setting. After looking at the darn thing with a magnifying glass, I saw that I was using a higher torque setting.
After that happened, I switched to the Fix-it-Sticks torque drives.
I have to reemphasize that Vortex replaced three scopes for me. Although these were inexpensive scopes it was still my fault and they had every right to say, after I broke the second one, to buy my optics somewhere else.
When a company goes out of their way to help someone who has been an idiot and screwed their product up the way I did, then I will buy their product.
Vortex either has my name listed under the bone-head file or frequent buyer list. It doesn't matter. I like the fact that they have the lifetime warranty and when used for the limits of the mission they were designed for; they are excellent scopes.
People make lots of excuses for owning cheap, failure prone optics that have a long track record of mediocrity. This is nothing new, and goes back to the founding on vortex. You think we haven't a bunch of their stuff from the early gen 1s, HS /HST's, Gen 2's and all the cheaper crap like diamondbacks and strike eagles?
Yes vortex has a stellar warranty program. That's how they stay in business. When you sell a $100 optic for $750, you can replace it a few times and still be in the black. A Razor probably costs vortex atleast half if not more of what they retail for. You are not only getting a much better optic, but a better value as more of your money is going into the actual optic instead of great marketing and world class customer service apparatus. How else do you think they became the largest and most profitable optics company in the USA?
Yes vortex has a stellar warranty program. That's how they stay in business. When you sell a $100 optic for $750, you can replace it a few times and still be in the black. A Razor probably costs vortex atleast half if not more of what they retail for. You are not only getting a much better optic, but a better value as more of your money is going into the actual optic instead of great marketing and world class customer service apparatus. How else do you think they became the largest and most profitable optics company in the USA?
Nothing like the Guy who is the biggest seller for Vortex in South Africa making another fluff video to sell shit.
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Funny how that works? He only sells vortex so they must be the best.
I swear, with the IQs around here…..Was it the “anecdote” or the “data” part that stumped you?Nothing like the Guy who is the biggest seller for Vortex in South Africa making another fluff video to sell shit.
Optics | Precision Rifle Accessory | Impact ProShop
Discover Top-Notch Optics for Clearer Vision and Precision Shooting - Explore Our Range for Enhanced Accuracy. Shop Now!
Funny how that works? He only sells vortex so they must be the best.
I posted this for that exact reason. Your “anecdotes” are every bit as tiresome as a biased youtube video.
I thought it was innovation.
The PST being Mil/Mil FFP scopes with illumination and a zero stop under $1000 when all the other options in that price range were Mil/MOA and SFP. People didn't flock to Vortex for the warranty, they went for the product they were offering the warranty just gave further piece of mind for folks taking a risk on a new company.
I guess it could be all that other stuff though.....
I haven't worked on a car or truck in while. I take it to the dealership and get the service under warranty.
So what use to frost my balls was a car or truck with SAE and metric bolts mixed in! Same with MILs and MOA.
Have the auto makers wised up or do they still like to frustrate people that work on their own cars?
The OP seems happy with Vortex’s response. That’s all that Vortex really cares about. There are far more happy customers than not. 95% of customers never have a problem or are not schooled enough in optics to care or recognize a problem, and the ones that are schooled, are usually left happy because of that warranty.
It’s all the more reason I just about have myself talked into putting my SE 5-25 on my 338 lapua.
It’s a range toy that gets shot probably 20 times a year. I’ll let it beat it up and I’ll likely need the warranty. If it fails, I’ll put the rifle away and send the scope back.
If I was competing with it, I’d have something like a bushy elite because they offer some of the best value for the money out there and I don’t need much more than what a XRS2 offers.
But then again most of my rifles don’t need much more than what the SE offers.
So why not?
It’s all the more reason I just about have myself talked into putting my SE 5-25 on my 338 lapua.
It’s a range toy that gets shot probably 20 times a year. I’ll let it beat it up and I’ll likely need the warranty. If it fails, I’ll put the rifle away and send the scope back.
If I was competing with it, I’d have something like a bushy elite because they offer some of the best value for the money out there and I don’t need much more than what a XRS2 offers.
But then again most of my rifles don’t need much more than what the SE offers.
So why not?
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I know you are trying to suggest that a lot has changed since 2008 and you are indeed correct, there are lots a good options now, indeed many far better than the Vortex PST and Razor Gen 1
But Vortex changed the "tactical" scope market in a massive way, that's how they gained their massive market share and knocked the likes of Leupold off their perch.
Should also add the Razor Gen 2 was also a pretty big deal when it came out, being by far the best value for money scope of it's type, hence why every man and his dog owns one (or 10).
We are so blessed with options now it's easy to forget the realities of 2008.
I am not debating how vortex changed the scope world for the better. In fact, I am a huge fan of Vortex's higher end products. My match rifle last year had a Gen 2 Razor, My hunting gun wears a LHT 4-22 and have owned a bunch more over the years.
Again, there is a huge difference between the quality, durability, repeatability and value of the Razor line and the lessor vortex offerings.
Their high end stuff is some of the best values on the market. Their low end stuff can't be trusted and after a few years, you can't give them away. You can still sell a Razor you bought 6-10 years ago for $1500 today. That is pretty damn impressive.
Again, there is a huge difference between the quality, durability, repeatability and value of the Razor line and the lessor vortex offerings.
Their high end stuff is some of the best values on the market. Their low end stuff can't be trusted and after a few years, you can't give them away. You can still sell a Razor you bought 6-10 years ago for $1500 today. That is pretty damn impressive.
Unless you have unlimited resources, every purchase is a tradeoff. Personally, I make no excuses for my purchases, ever. I shoot steel out to about 800 yds in my back yard. I could buy a GP or AI rifle, mount a S&B scope and all that, but it wouldn't bring me any more pleasure or significantly improve my performance. On the down side, I'd have less cash to buy ammo and training and whatever else. I laugh at people who buy, say, an $80k vehicle but live in a $300/month fleabag apartment. All for show. Same with guys who have a $10k rifle set up and can't shoot better than 2 MOA. Spend your money on what you need and what makes you happy and buy the best you can afford. Make no excuses.
I would have joined the military but................
This is a website catered to long range precision shooters. Quality gear is not cheap and if you actually shoot, you understand this. There are plenty of good values out there and the barriers to entry continue to come down. You don't need an AI or a Tangent to make hits but you need gear that can be relied upon. The cheap vortex products talked about in here, have proven over a long track record, they cannot be relied upon.
Can we get a show of hands?
Who relies on these cheap scopes, and who just shoots with them on Saturdays at the range?
I shoot them on Saturdays. I would never rely on my Arken, Strike eagle or any China or Philippine optic I have. These optics are not made for that and the manufacture will usually admit it.
Who relies on these cheap scopes, and who just shoots with them on Saturdays at the range?
I shoot them on Saturdays. I would never rely on my Arken, Strike eagle or any China or Philippine optic I have. These optics are not made for that and the manufacture will usually admit it.
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It always comes down to "if you can't storm Fallujah with it then it's shit!" LOL
Ah, I run a PST Gen 2 3-15 on my .308 deer gun.....and on Sat at the range (
).Not what I put on my long range 6.5, but I'm happy with this scope for this purpose and its not given me any issues whatsoever.
When I have to take off work, drive 3-5 hours each way, pay gas , pay match fees and possibly hotel and/or a flight for a "Saturday" at the range, not including all the time spent reloading and doing other shit so I can compete even at a 1 day match.
Has nothing to do with storming fallujah. It has to do with having a piece of gear that is reliable enough for the purpose it is marketed as. Having the turrets pop off at a match or on a zero board is not something you have to worry about with a Razor, NF, ZCO, ect.
Has nothing to do with storming fallujah. It has to do with having a piece of gear that is reliable enough for the purpose it is marketed as. Having the turrets pop off at a match or on a zero board is not something you have to worry about with a Razor, NF, ZCO, ect.
Most guys will never have a problemAh, I run a PST Gen 2 3-15 on my .308 deer gun.....and on Sat at the range (
Not what I put on my long range 6.5, but I'm happy with this scope for this purpose and its not given me any issues whatsoever.
I suggest you not buy these optics. It’s possible one of them could ruin your weekend.
Most guys don’t care enough that are in the market for this type/price optics.
If it fails hunting or Saturday at the range, they go home and make arrangements to get it sent back, then go mow the grass.
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At the end of the day, literally any product can and has failed.
Will a $800 scope made in the Phillipines fail more often than a $3000 scope made in Japan or the United States? Yeah, there's probably a good chance. Is it going to fail 3x as often, even though it's 1/3 the price? Probably not. It's the same with anything. Diminishing returns.
If buying an $800 scope instead of a $3000 scope means the shooter can take a $1000 3-day training class and buy $1000 worth of ammo, then the tradeoff isn't so bad.
Will a $800 scope made in the Phillipines fail more often than a $3000 scope made in Japan or the United States? Yeah, there's probably a good chance. Is it going to fail 3x as often, even though it's 1/3 the price? Probably not. It's the same with anything. Diminishing returns.
If buying an $800 scope instead of a $3000 scope means the shooter can take a $1000 3-day training class and buy $1000 worth of ammo, then the tradeoff isn't so bad.
Unless you work for Vortex, you don't know what the real failure rate is. Its not something companies tend to share. Show me a ZCO or Tangent Turret popping off at a match........I will wait.
Also, its more likely someone spending top dollar will use the product as intended and not just once or twice a year, which means there are alot of defective optics out there people don't even know they own.
This horse is already dead so no need to keep beating it.
Also, its more likely someone spending top dollar will use the product as intended and not just once or twice a year, which means there are alot of defective optics out there people don't even know they own.
This horse is already dead so no need to keep beating it.
Sounds to me that, because you compete, you should by the most reliable gear you can, probably in duplicate just in case something fails. If I paid for flights and hotels to compete or even to go hunting, I certainly wouldn't bring only one rifle, regardless of how reliable the gear is.
And therein lies the difference. I don't compete and have no desire to. Pistol, carbine, precision rifle, I train to be the best I can be and work on one of them most weekends. It literally takes me longer to load the truck with my gear than it does to drive behind my house to my range, so if I have any issues, I just go back to the house, grab something else and get back to the range. The gear I have is more than reliable enough for its intended purpose, including the gear I'd use if I needed to storm Falluja, lol. If/when I get near the point where my gear is holding me back, I will gladly upgrade. Not everyone needs to have the latest, greatest to enjoy and even excel at long range precision shooting, IMHO.
This has been bugging me about my G2 PST. The graduation lines get further out of sinc as you go up. Since this thread popped up, figured I'd throw this out there. Am I just too OCD or is this a precursor to turret failure? Or is it just life with a <1K optic? Not bashing at all, does anyone else see this.
I see the same thing on mine. I think it’s an etching issue with the lines, not a turret mechanical problem, because at least on mine they drift off in a certain range but come back as I keep dialing further. I think the lines are just slightly miscalibrated over a portion of the turret, but never so much that it’s unclear what I have dialed. Looks like yours is a bit further off from mine, but I bet they’d send you a new turret to see if it fixes it.
The same thing happened with my HST and PST gen2. It really bothered me until I figured it out.
It has to do with how the external turret is held on to the internal turret. The three hex screws are not equally screwed in, causing it to not be perfectly centered. As you turn it through a full rotation, it wobbles enough so the graduations don't line up. If you go up 10 mils from zero, it will be back on center.
You can either accept it as an effect of the design of the turrets, or fiddle with the screws until they are better centered.
After I figured out it's because of those three screws, I avoid that design completely. I hate fiddling with them. All four of the scopes I've bought since have attached with a single screw on the top of the turret.
Well dang, now I need to see if I can tune mine up a bit. Thanks for the perspective.
Do it like rings, a bit on each turret screw as evenly as you can to the torque value which is 8 in/lbs…but I use 6 in/lbs cause that’s the fix it stick limiter I have and it works fine.
PST Gen 2 3-15
PST Gen 2 3-15
