Sidearms & Scatterguns VP9 shooting right consistently

[stello1001]

Hello all,

I have a VP9 Tactical which I really like. The gun will put round after round on top of each other. However, I'm always shooting right. I was shooting at 10 and 15 yards two days ago and the groups were very tight but I can never seem to hit dead center.

When it comes to handguns, I know im not the best and I'm also not real big into them as my passion lies with bolt actions. However, is there anything I can do to correct this? I am lefty and don't know if that matters but thought I should throw it out there.

I was shooting a 12x12 plate and was always hitting closer to right edge. This has been my experience in the past as well.

I once shot a Javelina with it. It was standing broadside walking from left to right and aimed for the head but missed. It didn't scare off and just stood there so I realized my aim was off to the right. I took a second shot while aiming left of the head (neck area) and got a perfect shot to the eye.

I was thinking an RDS might correct this but I really enjoy shooting with the irons.

 

[Goes-Bang]

Left handed shooting right, is usually caused by trigger control. I've never shot a VP9, but HK's aren't known for super light/crisp easy to use triggers.

Have you ever done any dry-fire with it / are you calling your shots when the trigger breaks?

That HK appears to come stock with adjustable sights, are you sure they are properly aligned?

Have you tried shooting it without the threaded muzzle protector?

 

[stello1001]

Are you left or right handed?

Are you cross eye dominant?

Have you ever done any dry-fire with it / are you calling your shots when the trigger breaks?

That HK appears to come stock with adjustable sights, are you sure they are properly aligned?

I shoot my handgun left handed as I posted on my OP. I am also left eye dominant. I've done some dry fire practice but not nearly enough as I do with my bolt actions. One of my shots that missed the target just right, I was able to call the shot right as the trigger broke.

I did think about aligning my sights but again, I don't know enough about handguns as I do bolt guns.

I should probably also mention this is the Tactical version which comes with night sights. The front right looks like it could possible move or slide left/right but I don't see a way to adjust it.

Looking up ways to do it as I type.

 

[Goes-Bang]

Sorry, I saw you mentioned you were left handed and went back and edited my original post.

"Left handed shooting right, is usually caused by trigger control. I've never shot a VP9, but HK's aren't known for super light/crisp easy to use triggers."

I'd probably recommend starting with some dry fire, while watching the sights during the trigger break.

 

[stello1001]

Sorry, I saw you mentioned you were left handed and went back and edited my original post.

"Left handed shooting right, is usually caused by trigger control. I've never shot a VP9, but HK's aren't known for super light/crisp easy to use triggers."

I'd probably recommend starting with some dry fire, while watching the sights during the trigger break.

I'll definitely try that out and stay aware of my sights the whole time...

 

[Sieg]

The sights may need adjustment. Check the front and rear sight position in slide dovetail.

This tool or a local gun store/smith can handle it.

Standard Handgun Sight Tool | Sight Pusher

sightpusher.com

 

[Sixfivesavage]

I didn't even have to read your whole post to guess you're a lefty. HKs LEM trigger is notorious for magnifing poor fundamentals. Right handed shooters always shoot consistently left of POA with them. Lefties just the opposite. The striker gun is just the same. Ultimately, you're using too much finger on the trigger. They typically have a shorter reach to the trigger, so either make a conscious effort to put less finger on the trigger if you're happy with the grip size or play around with your grip panels untill you put less finger in the trigger guard.

 

[W54/XM-388]

As mentioned above, do the grip panel swap.
A lot of times you'll find you need something like a Small on one side and a Large on the other or some other weird combination of the 3 different panels in order to make the gun fit you. And don't forget about the rear panel as you may need to change that to adjust your finger placement.

 

[Halfnutz]

A couple friends (both NRA instructors)have VP9's and love the triggers on them. A sight pusher is the right tool, a Fudd can do it with a piece of brass and a hammer.

Recently saw a S&W .380ez I think that had a set screw on the underside of the slide for the rear sight. Check your manual?

 

[stello1001]

The sights may need adjustment. Check the front and rear sight position in slide dovetail.

This tool or a local gun store/smith can handle it.

Standard Handgun Sight Tool | Sight Pusher

sightpusher.com

The sight pusher is probably what I need and what will fix it for me. I was just curious if there was anything else I didn't know about.

Now that you mention it though, I'll give it some consideration.

I didn't even have to read your whole post to guess you're a lefty. HKs LEM trigger is notorious for magnifing poor fundamentals. Right handed shooters always shoot consistently left of POA with them. Lefties just the opposite. The striker gun is just the same. Ultimately, you're using too much finger on the trigger. They typically have a shorter reach to the trigger, so either make a conscious effort to put less finger on the trigger if you're happy with the grip size or play around with your grip panels untill you put less finger in the trigger guard.

It may be the trigger mechanism as you mention. The very weird part though, I'm doing some dry fire practice right now and paying extra attention to my sights as the trigger breaks. All I see is very little to no movement at all. The very little movement I do see happens to be my gun moving/pointing just slightly left after trigger break. But in actual fire, my shots end up right.


For those suggesting I play around with the grip panels, is it still advisable I do that even though the current grip configuration feels very natural in my hand already?

 

[kl3309]

There's no guarantee that a pistol's sights are regulated from the factory. If you're grouping, that means you've got the mechanics of shooting the gun down. Just move the sights to adjust your point of impact. (And don't make corrections based on 5 or 10 rd. groups unless you are fully confident in your abilities. Get close enough and then put 25 well-aimed shots on paper (at the furthest distance you have available) and then adjust for the center of that group.)

 

[myronman3]

saw this before. had two shooters trying to shoot a glock and they were hitting left and wanted to adjust the sights. i picked up the gun, fired 10 rounds and every one of the shots hit where i was aiming. i told them both to put the tools away and fix their trigger control.

 

[mewillis]

check your sight alignment for sure as of late HK has been sending out off centered sights on VP9's it seems even going
so far as to put a front sight in backwards, I shit you not.......

VP9L OR Front Sight Installed Backwards

Well, my new VP9L OR (2020) has its front sight installed backwards. The tritium dot is facing toward the muzzle. That doesn’t seem right to me. Is there some sort of special HK reason for this?

www.hkpro.com

 

[Gil P.]

Before you spend money and time on tools and moving the sights, buy some dummy rounds or make some if you reload.

Load your mags with dummys inside in random spots, shuffle your mags around and shoot at some targets. Pay very close attention to where your sights are pointing and where you're looking when you pull the trigger on the dummy rounds. If the sights are pointing slightly right after the trigger breaks, then you know there's nothing wrong with your gun.

Dry firing is good to do but things change when you know the gun is loaded.

 

[308pirate]

I was thinking an RDS might correct this but I really enjoy shooting with the irons.

It's not the gun. It's not the sights. It's not because it doesn't have a red dot.

Sorry. It's you.

I've seen this many a times. And that includes me back when I didn't know how to shoot handguns.

 

[NighthawkCG]

I have a VP9T and agree with a few points above:
- Play around with grip panels a little bit. Find ones that feel comfortable AND fit your hand well.
- When you live fire, take the time to notice what the gun does in your hand. If it is not being gripped properly (due to you or the grips not fitting your hand well) then pay attention to that and adjust accordingly to manage the recoil.
- The VP9/VP9T trigger is really great. I wouldn't be doubting it.
- The sights on the VP9T are pretty forgiving. Really make sure you are lining them up good with each shot. Dry fire included.
- Yes, check to make sure they are pretty lined up in the center of the slide. Have you holstered it a lot? Is is possible they got tweaked going in an out of a holster? I have to modify my safari land to make it draw smooth and not catch the front sight.

 

[308pirate]

There's no guarantee that a pistol's sights are regulated from the factory. If you're grouping, that means you've got the mechanics of shooting the gun down. Just move the sights to adjust your point of impact. (And don't make corrections based on 5 or 10 rd. groups unless you are fully confident in your abilities. Get close enough and then put 25 well-aimed shots on paper (at the furthest distance you have available) and then adjust for the center of that group.)

A rotated wrist when he grips the pistol can send a nice group to the right or left of POA if trigger control is OK.

 

[NighthawkCG]

This sights are also very easy to see if they are off center. The center of the elevation adj screw should be in the middle of the center rib. The front sight should be centered on the same rib. Pretty easy to tell.

 

[Gil P.]

Don't move the sights to adjust the POA. That's bad advice unless you are positive the sights are off.

Get your shooting straightened out first. All you have to do is keep the gun from moving while the sights are on target and you are pulling the trigger until it fires. Obviously it's easier said than done.

Your grip doesn't matter in terms of hitting your target as long as you aren't moving. Grip matters when you want to shoot faster.

I had the same problem when I first started. Don't worry about the grips, sights, trigger, etc, they aren't what's messing you up. Unless the sights really are f'ed up.

 

[Shifty6BR]

Being a lefty I read the title and went ahead and assumed you were a southie as well.
I have seen my right handed buddies push left.

I suffered from the same issue and many dry fires and correcting my grip really pretty much fixed my problem and taken my pistol shooting to a better level. My buddy picked up a vp9 and it was on point out of the box when fired it up.

Try some dry fires and keep an eye on what that front sight is doing, sometimes adjusting the sights to compensate for poor fundamentals will only mask the real issue, I've been there my friend. Personally I feel dry firing is a great aid.

 

[Waco Kid]

Unless the two VP's I shot were unicorns (fired the full size and SK), I wouldn't think the trigger would be an issue. Both were smoothe, just a tad of take up and a clean break, not very heavy either.

 

[kl3309]

A rotated wrist when he grips the pistol can send a nice group to the right or left of POA if trigger control is OK.

Sure, but if that's his natural hold/point of aim, and he's grouping, why not continue to use that technique and adjust his sights to match.
My hold starts to rotate slightly counterclockwise once I start getting up past 75 rds. or so in a session but since my technique is dead-on, my group does not open up appreciably.

 

[alamo5000]

I bought a pistol that I had a hard time hitting the broad side of a barn. After 1000 rounds I can hit 4 inch targets at 15 to 20 yards.

I say that because it seems to me the problem is your grip or other fundamentals. Particularly pay attention to trigger pull. Even if you have to shoot super slow it will help.

Basically my problem I had I think is the same as the one you are having. Basically a narrower or fatter grip will in essence change your 'length of pull' which results in a subconscious difference in your finger placement on the trigger. Too shallow or too deep will result in pushing or pulling shots.

The good thing though is apparently you are consistent. You just have to retrain your grip for the firearm you are trying to get better with.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

I shoot consistently to the right with my VP9 as well. I shoot tiny groups with it, but it's always to the right as well.

Gun now has 3000+ rounds through it. During a recent inspection I noticed my rear sight is off center. I expect centering the rear sight will center my groups up. Yours might be off center as well.

 

[308pirate]

Sure, but if that's his natural hold/point of aim, and he's grouping, why not continue to use that technique and adjust his sights to match.
My hold starts to rotate slightly counterclockwise once I start getting up past 75 rds. or so in a session but since my technique is dead-on, my group does not open up appreciably.

I would agree with you right away if he had a pistol with a far less adjustable grip. But the VP9 has not just interchangeable backstraps but also interchangeable side panels. My suggestion is still to fix the grip (and likely his trigger manipulation too) then if that doesn't completely eliminate the windage, drift the rear sight.

I suspect @stello1001 would be best served by taking a training class from someone reputable to help diagnose and fix this rather than limp along with bad habits like I did for so many years.

It wasn't until I got serious about USPSA two years ago and started shooting and training with guys who are much, much better than I that I stopped blaming this or that pistol for my then shitty shooting.

 

[kl3309]

OP says he was shooting at 10-15 yds. and that he was shooting at a 12x12 plate with hits on the right edge. He doesn't say that he was shooting at the plate at 10-15 yds. but let's assume that he was. He would have to be holding the pistol damn near horizontal to get that kind of POA/POI deviation with a pistol at those ranges (and he mentions in another post that he is aware of his sights and does not think he is tilting the gun at all, and knows enough to hold left to get his hits).
Every pistol I shoot has an optic mounted so my height over bore is much greater than the OP's iron sights. As I've said, I'll catch myself canting the pistol but still see minimal dispersion left or right of POA, and that's at 25 yds (I can put 50 rds. into a 2.5" group (with some fliers), off-hand, and 'cause somone's going to call me out on that statement:

).
So here we all are again, diagnosing shooting technique 'cause the shooter obviously has no idea what he's doing. Well, he's getting his hits, on steel and on game. He just has to use some windage to get center hits. Moving the sights is the solution to that problem.

 

[308pirate]

OP says he was shooting at 10-15 yds. and that he was shooting at a 12x12 plate with hits on the right edge. He doesn't say that he was shooting at the plate at 10-15 yds. but let's assume that he was. He would have to be holding the pistol damn near horizontal to get that kind of POA/POI deviation with a pistol at those ranges (and he mentions in another post that he is aware of his sights and does not think he is tilting the gun at all, and knows enough to hold left to get his hits).
Every pistol I shoot has an optic mounted so my height over bore is much greater than the OP's iron sights. As I've said, I'll catch myself canting the pistol but still see minimal dispersion left or right of POA, and that's at 25 yds (I can put 50 rds. into a 2.5" group (with some fliers), off-hand, and 'cause somone's going to call me out on that statement:
View attachment 7436037).
So here we all are again, diagnosing shooting technique 'cause the shooter obviously has no idea what he's doing. Well, he's getting his hits, on steel and on game. He just has to use some windage to get center hits. Moving the sights is the solution to that problem.

I was never talking about canting the pistol. I was talking about gripping it in a way that points the muzzle off from the line of your forearm.

The bottom half of this picture shows what I'm describing. That, plus likely poor trigger technique, is my guess as to what's going on.

 

[smithjd]

1) Your Support hand is “being a bitch” and not doing its job.
2) Your trigger finger is not (just) bending at the second joint and your third (proximal) joint is moving the whole finger, which pushes the gun.
Before you mess with sights, either have someone who knows how to shoot or shoot it yourself right handed to see if the impacts are in the same place.

I’d wager you are consistently doing it “wrong” resulting in precision without accuracy.

 

[smithjd]

1) Grip. There are so many videos out there, but can't watch what you are doing and fix it. I've been shooting a pistol for 35 years and only really learned how the grip works this summer (at a Jedlinski class). Basically, the support hand "drives" the gun. Too much firing hand can "help" the trigger finger causing shots to go high. Not enough or improper support hand allows the gun to break in the direction of the support hand.

2) Trigger Control. Watch Michael Voigt starting at about 3:30: I've also heard it described by Tom Givens as the trigger finger "bicep"; the inner pad between the proximal and medial joints, that bunches up and pushes against the gun when firing. Either way, you are not holding that proximal joint still.

Trigger control is much more objective. Grip is much more subjective, as people's hand size / strength and interface with different size grips all makes a difference. What I said about doing it "wrong" was poorly worded. You likely have a consistent "flaw" in you fundamentals that manifests itself with the shot breaking (right).

 

[Choid]

I find the VP9 the absolute worst handgun to shoot I've ever used. It isn't that they are inaccurate, they actually can be shot quite accurately, it is that there is almost no way I can find to shoot them with good accuracy in a practical way. It is either/or. No wonder they really haven't caught on, despite people wanting them to be great.

 

[dzander]

Have another shooter shoot it of known ability. See if he gets same results. I have a VP9. The trigger is actually pretty good for not being a 1911.

I like the grip on the VP9 with all the changeable backstops and side panels. It's reliable and accurate. Everybody is different

 

[Choid]

Have another shooter shot it of known ability. See if he gets same results. I have a VP9. The trigger is actually pretty good for not being a 1911.

I like the grip on the VP9 with all the changeable backstops and side panels. It's reliable and accurate. Everybody is different

The trigger is pretty nice, though it breaks a bit too far back, and the take up is really long. The other ergos suck for me. I can't control recoil on it without my thumb landing on the slide release, the grips are slippery and it twists a lot. It can be accurate, but I don't think it is a good pistol.

 

[WATERWALKER]

I’d recommend a class as well to properly diagnose grip, finger placement on the trigger (90*) & proper application of the support hand. You’ll need someone who has a good understanding of fundamentals in order to explain this to you to get the point across.

Fitting the gun to your hand is one thing, but let me ask a simple question or two?

1. Can you explain a nutcracker or clam shell grip?
2. What is the ratio of pressure between your strong & support hands?

I knew you’re a lefty right away. From what I’ve read, I think this is an issue of not enough support from your right hand or not enough finger on the trigger.

I teach these classes on a regular basis & poor grip / trigger finger placement are the most common deficiencies I see from day to day.

If you’re my student, I’d have you shoot a pistol w/ no sights at all. I’d have you shoot a few groups from seven to fifteen yards to show you how much your finger pressure (too much or too little) influences your impacts down range.

I think someone mentioned using a red dot sight in this thread. *Here’s your pro tip for the day: a RDS won’t help you hit anything if your fundamentally deficient.

@308pirate & @smithjd offer solid advice as well.

 

[stello1001]

Thanks to everyone who responded. I do agree I'm not a great pistol shooter at all and I would probably benefit a lot if being taught by someone who knows what he's doing. Here in my area though, I have no idea who that would be.

So to summarize what I've read throughout this thread, I will do the following:

Play around with grips and see if that can improve my POI.

Play extra close attention to trigger finger pressure and see if backing off or putting more will change my results.

Dry fire a shit ton (which I've done already but will do more)...

Learn and try different support hand positioning and pay attention to what happens to my POI.


I've been busy working on my boat and fishing that I haven't gone shooting. However, those are things I will try and work on.