Vudoo, Annie, or ?

[Norcal911]

First post but been reading for quite awhile both here and over at RFC. Need some advice on a 22 (or maybe a 17). Really like the Vudoo (probably Sinister or Raven), but also considering an Annie or possibly something I'm unaware of. This will be my first realy high end nice rifle so I want to get it right. I'm mostly a target shooter and here at the house I have up to 150yards to shoot at. Mostly punch paper and ring steel. I do go out and hunt squirrels occasionally, mostly sitting still, not putting a lot of miles in so weight is not an issue. I have never shot a PRS match but I'm totally willing to if the opportunity arises. I have some heavily modified 10/22's that will usually go under 1/2 inch at 50. Also have a modified Savage 93 in 17 HMR that turns in some pretty good groups on occasion. Pleased with the rifle but hate the mag and....well.....its a Savage.

I absolutely love the look and craftsmanship of the Vudoo but I've never heard a bad thing about the Annie's either. I'm thinking the Annie trainer (64 action) off the shelf or the same model from the custom shop that has been bedded and the trigger tuned. Either of the aformentioned Vudoo's look great. An Annie 1710 is in the budget although pushing the top end of it. From what I gather this gets me the 54 action (superior?) but I'm pretty far from an Annie expert and this is not a trainer style rifle so I would lose the Manners stock of the trainer.

I have not totally written off a CZ in the Manner's stock if I could get DJ to work his magic and I think this option would save a little money that could be spent on better glass. I'm not married to a PRS style stock but I think that's the direction I want to go. Above and beyond all, I want a rifle that I can be proud of and that will print little tiny groups. Probably not going with a 17 due to the ammo selection but maybe somebody can make a solid arguement for lengthy squirrel shots? I don't have a big boy PRS gun so I'm not stuck on modelling my trainer after my centerfire rifle. As far as glass goes, probably going with a Burris XTRII in 4-20 or an Athlon Ares 4.5-27. Anny advise, pros and cons, etc from owners of any of the above would be appreciated. Thx-Norcal911

 

[shooter65]

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/custom-fclass-tactical-22lr.3935939/

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Id go vudoo. I don't have the vudoo but have Mikes 40x conversion and it runs incredibly well. His tuned custom action should be even better.

Even besides how well it runs and shoots, you can mirror 100% what this trainer will be and your full size prs gun if you plan on getting into that in the future. With the rem 700 footprint youll be sble to put it in any stock you would a tikka, rem700, howa, etc. The mags are also beefy and not the stick like mags the cz, savage and annies use. Yiu can use the same mag pouches you would a normal aics mag if you start doing more matches.

ive owned and shot annies and am very interested in the new annie 64s in the manners t6 stock. But the truth is my 40x converted runs and shoots so well I can't justify owning/buying any other bolt 22.... and this is coming from a guy who owned 5 at a time for a while.

i have no affiliation with mike or vudoo aside from him converting my 40x about a year ago...i just really believe its probably one of the best custom 22s youll find for its purpose.

 

[Rob01]

For what you are talking about and possibly using it in PRS .22 matches then the Vudoo would work great. You have large AICS style mags which make mag handling much easier. This is huge. Fast mag changes and just easier handling makes the experience easier while still running very reliably. You can also use it in any Remington 700 stock or chassis system as mentioned. Same for triggers. Lots of options if you try to change things up over the years. Also you can run that bolt as hard as you want without worries.

And lastly to accuracy, if you look in the Vudoo thread you will see Mike posted he results of the accuracy testing by Eley where they said the repeater Vudoo is as accurate as any single shot Anschutz they have tested. That says a lot.

If if you are looking to spend the money on a top end .22 then I would look at the true custom action and rifle. I can tell you the CZ action doesn't hold a candle to the V-22. Never owned an Anschutz though.

 

[Tucker301]

I don't think you could go wrong with any of the rifles mentioned.
I have Anschutz rifles in 54 (22) and 64 (17), and they are beautifully crafted and shoot well. They are what you if you want to try different barrels.
My newest rimfire is CZ 455 in 17 HMR, put together by Mile High Shooting, and it's a sweet rig that has me considering another CZ in 22. The CZ's are easily user-customized.
The Vudoo is alluring on all levels.

 

[djdilliodon]

If you want the best, the 2500xr is without a doubt the best rimfire action out currently (in Repeater and the single shots are also up there).

 

[steve123]

Don't buy a Anschutz 1827F biathlon or you'll never be the same. It is just such a well done rifle in so many ways. I absolutely love mine!!

I'd be lying if I said I didn't want a Vudoo, set up exactly like my go-to centerfire!

The Ares is a great choice.

 

[Hoser]

I have several Anschutz rifles, a 54 repeater, an 1827 and a 1727. Very happy with them. Scary accurate factory barrels. Once you get used to a Fortner action they are scary fast. Hunting jackrabbits is huge fun.

I also have a couple 40X Elrod repeaters. Very happy with them also. They are what I use at our monthly rimfire PRS matches.

It all depends on your budget and what you want your rifle to be in the end.

 

[delfuego]

Hey Norcal911, I just went through EXACTLY what you're going through for the last few weeks. We have local matches here (Hoser's match) and they are pretty competitive. They also just added a PRS rimfire match. I have been wanting to get in on the fun for a while and decided it's "now or never". Quite a few of the boys are running converted 40x's (aka: The 40x Mafia), some are running fixed up CZ's, a few Aschutz and Savages in the mix too. I contacted the Guys at Vudoo as well as djdilliodon and several board members and local guys about my dilemma. I wanted a competitive rifle, but could not swallow spending $2k-$3k+ on a rifle I will use once a month.

I ended up asking for and finding a Anschutz 64 repeater. This should get me a capable rifle at a reasonable cost. An added benefit to me is; there nothing I really need to upgrade. I am a tinkerer and know I would quickly fall down the rabbit-hole with options and upgrades. I hope now all I will need to do now is buy ammo.

While the Vudoo looks promising, it still doesn't exist. I believe they will be well built and be able to deliver on schedule, but who knows. They also have no track record yet. The 40x with a repeater conversion is a proven winner, but it ain't cheap. A converted 40x would run me close to $3k and might take a long while to build and have shooting. As for CZ, there are a few really good deals available in factory configuration or used from the PX. A fixed up CZ might be able to hang with the higher-end options, but may require work and modifications. Aschutz is Anschutz.

I am hoping I made the right call, budget-wise it works for me. I would love to have djdilliodon build me a rifle. He was very cool to me and answered my questions and emailed me back right away with advise and experience. If I truly get hooked on rimfire, my first call will be to djdilliodon.

I hope this helps. Good luck! - Delfuego

 

[Rob01]

While the Vudoo looks promising, it still doesn't exist. I believe they will be well built and be able to deliver on schedule, but who knows. They also have no track record yet.

They do exists and rifle are getting built for customers right now. Plenty of actions made and ready for orders. Lead time is about 8-10 weeks right now.

As for not having a track record, no they don't in any comps or customers reviews yet but they were used at the NRA shoot at Peacemaker at a demo stage. 2 rifles shot over 5000 rounds during the demos with no issues. One of those rifles was the one sent to Eley for the accuracy testing shown in the Vudoo thread in which they stated that that the V-22 repeater rifle was as accurate as any single shot Anschutz they have tested. That says something.

Not being argumentative but just getting the info out for people reading the thread and wondering. I have had hands on a Vudoo V-22 at Mike's house and I can tell you that once they are out in the wild he will be a very busy guy as they will be very popular.

 

[delfuego]

Anschutz has been around 161 years. 40x conversions are available now and rock. CZ's are ubiquitous.

I didn't say it would not happen, but it is not real today. 8-10 weeks is a time-frame I have heard many times from gunsmiths and manufacturers.

 

[RAVAGE88]

Great thread, Guys. Since the 40X Repeater Conversion has been mentioned here a few times, I figured I'd mention the lineage between what is my Repeater Conversion, used among a pretty large group since 2010, and the Vudoo V-22. The feed geometry/timing, along with what is now the V-2210 magazine, used in the conversion, actually originated in what was the beginnings of the design for the V-22. This geometry/timing is at the heart of what has made the 40X Repeater such a success and the V-22 takes it all a bit further. The 40X was used to prove the technical feasibility of the conversion using a magazine that matched the timing within a receiver diameter of 1.35" (because I designed the magazine first). I really never intended to field the conversion in such large numbers, but it worked so well, I built quite a few and then brought Modacam online just over a year ago to do conversions. The V-22 went into production/testing in March of this year and is shipping now. It was used with great success at the NRA World Championships and performed incredibly well at the Eley Test Facility. Without a doubt, the Vudoo V-22 exists and has quite a long track record in the success of the 40X Repeater Conversion.

MB

 

[Rob01]

Can't say it better than the guy who is actually making the V-22.

 

[djdilliodon]

Great thread, Guys. Since the 40X Repeater Conversion has been mentioned here a few times, I figured I'd mention the lineage between what is my Repeater Conversion, used among a pretty large group since 2010, and the Vudoo V-22. The feed geometry/timing, along with what is now the V-2210 magazine, used in the conversion, actually originated in what was the beginnings of the design for the V-22. This geometry/timing is at the heart of what has made the 40X Repeater such a success and the V-22 takes it all a bit further. The 40X was used to prove the technical feasibility of the conversion using a magazine that matched the timing within a receiver diameter of 1.35" (because I designed the magazine first). I really never intended to field the conversion in such large numbers, but it worked so well, I built quite a few and then brought Modacam online just over a year ago to do conversions. The V-22 went into production/testing in March of this year and is shipping now. It was used with great success at the NRA World Championships and performed incredibly well at the Eley Test Facility. Without a doubt, the Vudoo V-22 exists and has quite a long track record in the success of the 40X Repeater Conversion.

MB

Was the gun shot in the stock at the test facility or was the action clamped in a vice? The rifles being built with a 10 week turn around, do they come with an accuracy guarantee and if so what is it?

 

[NOMAD]

I own multiple Anschutz rifles of numerous configurations as well as CZ's, and fully modified 10/22 rifles. I went thru exactly what you went thru. Use something I had rebuild and modify something I had etc. I came across the Vudoo V22 and after watching the video of how smooth and flawless the action cycled, I was sold!!!

I called placed a order. I have also had the opportunity at the NRA world shoot to shoot the V22 in a few different configurations. I shot a 1/2 inch 5 shit group at 170 yards as well as I was ringing plates at 485 yards. Numerous times I would go test for a Vudoo at 170 yards and could easily hit a 2 inch plate on demand.

I can attest that the Vudoo hands down is the most accurate .22LR action I have ever shot.

To me if I was starting from ground zero id go with a custom built Vudoo and be done with it. Cut right to the chase get what you want once and not have to have buyers remorse and envy wishing you had one,

When you look at the amount of money you spend to goto a match, ammo and gear. I'd rather know my gear is the best offered and if you put the time and effort to get better you will be among the best.

 

[RAVAGE88]

Was the gun shot in the stock at the test facility or was the action clamped in a vice? The rifles being built with a 10 week turn around, do they come with an accuracy guarantee and if so what is it?

The barreled action was bolted into a fixture, made from an AICS chassis, the fixture was torqued into a vice. There's a video of part of the actual test on the Vudoo FB page. We've not published an accuracy guarantee, mostly because we've taken the time to post actual targets. The 40 shot groups from the Eley testing are in the .300" C to C range.

MB

 

[RAVAGE88]

Here's the whole video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jOWQSetTU4&t=566s

MB

 

[Norcal911]

I couldn't stop myself. Still want an Annie......maybe someday. Ordered up a Sinister this morning. OD green with black splatter, black finish on the metal. 18" heavy sporter contour, 20 MOA rail, and 4 mags. Can't wait. I guess I have about 2 months to start stocking up on good ammo and breaking the news to my other rimfire's that we are not going to be spending much time together. I think I'm going to give the Athlon Ares 4.5-27 Mil a try-Norcal911

 

[kashaV]

"I have about 2 months to start stocking up on good ammo"...

I presume you are in Calif. I am, so I have been putting away a couple of bricks a month since the law was signed. I'm in northern ca. in the fire zone. The back of my small truck is loaded and low with ammo and guns in case of evacuation.

I love shooting at 100 and 200 yards with my Ultra Lux and peep sights.

 

[powdahound76]

I am making myself wait until I save up cash in hand instead of breaking my rule and putting the new V-22 on the card. Its gonna be a sexy beast when I get it though.

KashaV - watch yourself and be safe!

 

[steve123]

I am making myself wait until I save up cash in hand instead of breaking my rule and putting the new V-22 on the card. Its gonna be a sexy beast when I get it though.

KashaV - watch yourself and be safe!

It might not take long before the situation of a long backlog of builds takes place, especially a rifle like this which is very desirable! I'd put a deposit down immediately, then start saving. Zero interest CC is your friend, as long as you are never late on the payment and can pay it off in time.

 

[powdahound76]

Steve
Good point. Just a less than great practice for me to start that with the I wants vs the I needs. Then I will need a new nice scope for it too......... I make plenty of money, I am just a cheap ass and live on a budget.
I like the Dave Ramsey rule of buy it if you have cash.

 

[jbell]

Steve
Good point. Just a less than great practice for me to start that with the I wants vs the I needs. Then I will need a new nice scope for it too......... I make plenty of money, I am just a cheap ass and live on a budget.
I like the Dave Ramsey rule of buy it if you have cash.

Nothing wrong with that brother! I am in the same boat

 

[NOMAD]

Live on the edge be like every other American and enjoy life and have credit card debit LOL. Plus if your someone who doesn't like debt you will work harder and faster to pay it off. I use the gun scale when buying stuff. Go out to lunch $10 that's 1/50 th of a new pistol. $100 jacket no way that's 1/5 of a pistol LOL Guns gear and equipment have priority in my world.

 

[powdahound76]

Ha! I have a 5 yr old and am divorced so time to use it is limited. She shoots with me and its more about her than me. i can have a great time with my old savage until I am ready.
If I didn't have her I would have already ordered one.

 

[flatland1]

When I saw the 22 Trainer specs that Euro Optic advertised a couple of years ago, I thought a rifle like that would be the absolute top-dog deal. Eventually bought a Stiller 2500XR action & used a Krieger 22RF blank that I'd had in stock for years on it. Was going to put it in a Manners T4A DBM mini chassis, but then found an extra Elite tactical T4A on Manners' online inventory list that they'd made for the EO run, but which EO decided they didn't need. In that stock, with a Jewell HVR, Athlon Cronus 4.5-29x56, and a spare Savage mag, I had a rifle that shot great, ran very slick & reliably, and was an absolute blast to practice with.

Then I started reading about Mike Bush's 40X repeater conversions done by jelrod, and since I had a couple of CMP 40Xs that I'd gotten into at bargain prices, sent the older of the two off to Jelrod. I fitted & chambered a Benchmark 3-groove bbl to the action when I got it back from jelrod, and while a 40X action isn't as slick as the Stiller was, it shot just as well if not better, and the MB mags were head & shoulders above the Savage mags when it comes to a quick reload. I liked it so much that I sent the 2nd CMP 40X off to jelrod, and wound up fitting two bbls for this one, as a way to test a Krieger against a Lilja titebore. Jury's still out on whether one is any more accurate than the other, so for now, I'm leaving the Lilja on it. Once I found out how well the 40X repeater ran & shot, I sold the Stiller rifle to a friend, who has been very pleased with it.

Have been eyeing the new Vudoo V-22 action, and trying to resist the temptation, but finally gave in and ordered an action. Will be going with another Krieger for it - mostly because I've got a couple on hand. UPS delivered another Manners Elite Tactical T4A in GAP camo a couple of weeks ago, and the Jewell HVR is here too. So I'm just waiting on an action, and the time to work on getting the bbl blank fitted & chambered. I've got a few of the Athlon Ares mil 4.5-27x50 scopes still in stock, so am planning on using one for this rifle. I've sold a couple of these same scopes to two shooting buddies of mine - one is waiting on a complete V-22 rifle from VGW, the other has a 40X repeater conversion coming from jelrod. Looking forward to running the V-22 to compare to my 40Xs, and an Ares scope to compare to the two Athlon Cronus scopes I've got on the 40Xs. For my purposes, these rifles built to mimic my centerfire comp rifles are the absolute top-of-the-line rigs

 

[NOMAD]

Norcal911 welcome and great question. Like I said I own a handful of Annies and tricked out 10/22 all accurate and use for IR5050 bench rest. With me wanting to get into the Long Range .22 game and all my research debating all that you have mentioned, and once I found the Vudoo V22 it was a no brainer the V22 was 100% the best option out there.

as you have said in your post a few times if I buy this rifle and change this or have this modified and done and this worked on etc. For less headaches, risk, time and probably less money you can be into a full blown custom Vudoo that is 100% ready to go, runs with the most superior action and magazine system offered. Your ready to go, If you want to plink, hunt, or get into LR22 matches then all your bases are covered and you don't have to change or modify a thing to be competitive in any of them.

I have already talked with Tom Manners and I plan to weigh my gun with my scope and rings etc get a weight and tell him how many pounds I have to play with and he will be building me a custom 22Benchrest stock for me to put my Vudoo in so that I can shoot it in the 13.5 pound class of IR5050.

Hope this helps you

 

[flatland1]

I should've mentioned in my reply that I've owned a couple of really fine Anschutz prone rifles - a 1611 & now a 2011. They were & are great trainers for my LR prone rifles in Robertson H&H prone stocks, since the Anschutz prone stock is supposedly the stock Ian Robertson modeled his H&H stocks on. But they're single shot rifles, and that pretty well knocks them out of contention for 22RF Precision Rifle matches. A friend has an Anschutz Biathalon rifle with Fortner action, which I have had the distinct pleasure of running the bolt on a few times - it's an awesome concept. But - much as I admire Anschutz 22RF rifles - for what the OP was wanting, the V-22 is far & away the best choice.

 

[NOMAD]

Agree the Vudoo V22 is a purpose built .22 that can work for everything its hard to not want to have the best of the best isn't it

 

[sfogold]

This is a great thread!
I actually am lucky enough to own 2 Annies, a highly modified 10/22, and a Vudoo. The Vudoo rocks and I have zero negatives to provide. Most users will be very happy. The 54 action, is just plain a thing of beauty as well. With the right ammo, I can not outshoot the 54 with the Vudoo, but it is VERY close. The 54 has the refinement of a classic firearm (I have mine mounted in a PRS style stock).
I will say, that if one is looking for a “trainer”, to practice PRS style shooting, the Vudoo is a better fit, largely on size/weight/balance. It shoots very well and is better suited to larger optics such as a a 34mm tube. The Annie, has a bit more refinement to my tastes, and a 30mm scope fits the setup better, especially if you use dovetail mounts. So - its a a matter of taste/use. I love my Annies, and my Vudoo. (I think of the Vudoo as the wicked stepchild of the Annie.....The Brother from another mother...).

 

[Rob01]

Another major point on using the Vudoo as a trainer is the magazine size and feel. It feels like an AICS mag as it's the same size and will give you a better muscle memory when grabbing and loading than a slimmer, smaller standard .22 mag. You can also use all your same mag holders to train with for mag changes. It's a big plus.

 

[NOMAD]

Vudoo teaser