Vudoo, CZ, Bergara, and Kidd go head to head

[nakoa01]

I consider it thr holy grail bc I have had 5 of them. All absolute hammers and they have true match chambers. The proof has bentz chamber and I bought it for looks. Turns out it's a shooter. If I wanted a gun to shoot groups or prs the lilja bc I believe from barrel to barrel it will be more accurate. More consistent, and it offers more weight. As for adjusting headspacd etc.. .I don't getvall tore up about that. I think it helps absolutley. But soon as I start hammering bullet holes I stop playing with headspace

 

[obx22]

So every week I see a post is the Vudoo worth it. Or CZ, Tikka, or Bergara. So at this point I have spent thousands in testing. In the last 2 years I have owned about 30 cz 457s some with Bartleins. 3 Bergaras. 2 being carbon fiber and 1 steel. 4 vudoos. One 22in in a mdt chassis, one ridgeback with a 16in barrel, one proof 18in in a bravo, and one stock Raven. 3 kidds one Ultralight super grade with also a 18in heavy barrel, 2 stage at 8/8, titan stock. Another supergrade 20in fluted, comp, at 1 stock, and single stage trigger. Another kidd classic lightweight barrel, volquartsen reciever, kidd internals and 2 stage set st 8/8 in a bell and carlson Anschutz thumbhole.

All of my shooting had been done at 50yds off bags and largely at night to avoid thermals, mirage, and most of all wind. Here in KY at night most of the time or wind calms way down. When I shoot its 7mph or less.

First off the Kidds. Everyone of the kidds groups looks the same. Little round holes. However every one of them have been SUPER AMMO PICKY. Varying even with center x from lot number to lot number. SK is my fav ammo but one minute the kidd likes the lot number the next nope. I finally stumbled onto something they like. But typically its center x accross thr board for a safe bet on all guns. My kidd ultralight is crazy accurste with the right center x but it take all my concentration to make it stack in there. I have to break cheek weld and resettle or it wont happen. Don't ask me why just the way it is. The victor titan really helps. It out shoots my lightweight which is about the same weight but the victor is heavier. The heavy gun in the at 1 has been a shooter since first mag. Crazy accurate. And the comp really helps. The gun just doesn't move. Making follow up shots easy. And it does not take near the concentration of the ultralight. The lightweight I sold. It was just too hard to get it to stack like I wanted it too. And it was even more ammo picky than the others.

The Vudoos. What can I say. Every one of them every freaking time. The have reinvented the wheel here. It is effortless to shoot bullet holes. My timing from ahot to shot can be off. I can stay in the gun too long etc. They are just the definition of perfection. They are not ammo picky. If I want to shoot in the low .3s I use sk standard plus. If I want .2s and .1s its center x. They are truly worth their every penny.

CZs. So I have had every make and model of the 457 except the funky gray one. Not a fan. The 20in mtr barrels I have had no luck with. The 16in varmint barrels....I have had 4 and all shoot extremely well. Like probably a solid 3/8 gun at 50 with center x. The bartleins I have owned have allowed me to shoot sk and stay around the 3/8 mark. I did try a lothar walther and wasnt happy. Super consistent, but 2 in one whole other three a little ways off in another. Most groups could be covered with a dime still.

Bergaras. Okay so this one to me is a poor man's Vudoo. At least at 50yds. Both of my carbon fibers would punch .1s and. 2s avg under .3/8 but they had to have an area 419 hell fire muzzle break to do it with. Without that comp there was enough movement to effect groups. With that comp very nice. My steel version is my bell of the ball and the one gun I have shot more than the others combined. Probably 3000 rounds I would say. Automatic and getting better. I run trigger tech specials turned all the way down and in that paticular gun i am under 1lb. Never and issue. The bolt I can work it like a worn out hooker or slow and steady. Never a malfunction in my bergaras nor my cz nor my vudoo. I live bergara mag, easier to load for me than the Vudoo. And I can run the bolt much faster bc it's not made to as tight of a tolerance. I very much like the factory stocks too. The gun is very well finished, thought out, and designed. Smoking deal for what they go for I think.

Vudoo takes the cake. It's a custom rifle designed for those who want the best. I simply couldnt be happier. Customer service and folks there are TOP NOTCH. Kidd is a vudoo for the semi auto. But a cz and bergara will be more consistent and easier to shoot in my opinion. Nature of the beast. For a cheaper 700 foot print practice tool short of Vudoo Bergara. But accuracy wise they all shoot about the same minus the Vudoo. I do find the bergara to be easy to shoot well followed my cz or tikka and then the kidd.

Feel free to ask questions for those looking to buy a new rifle.

nakoa01,
In your journey through the different CZ’s, have you tested a 457 Varmint Precision Chassis model with its twenty four + inch medium weight barrel?
I traded into one, slapped a Shepherd rimfire scope on it and immediately scored hits at 200-300yds. 100yd paper shows lots of promise, but I haven’t decided whether to keep it or not.
I run a B14-R in our monthly match, and feel it’s not holding me back.
Great write-up

 

[nakoa01]

So I have not done that primarily bc I hate the butt stock on the chassis. It always feels a little shaky on the tear end. The stock itself I tighten with set screw. But it just kind wiggles in my bags. The gun shot well enough but it didn't recoil like I wanted it too. The chassis itself is nice. As for the 24in barrel. I only tested one and that was in the vpt manners version. It sucked. This paticular barrel did.

Your post makes me want to look at Shepard scopes. I have been wanting a precalibrated scope better than a hawke.

 

[obx22]

So I have not done that primarily bc I hate the butt stock on the chassis. It always feels a little shaky on the tear end. The stock itself I tighten with set screw. But it just kind wiggles in my bags. The gun shot well enough but it didn't recoil like I wanted it too. The chassis itself is nice. As for the 24in barrel. I only tested one and that was in the vpt manners version. It sucked. This paticular barrel did.

Your post makes me want to look at Shepard scopes. I have been wanting a precalibrated scope better than a hawke.

The scope is not bad within its limits. Reticle is designed for hi-speed ammo with 9” circles graduated out to 500yds. It worked ok in practice for a long range soda can event we host, but obviously has the limitations of matching reticle/ammo/conditions, basically it’s a compromise scope.
For a visual of just what your ballistic path looks like between you and the target, it’s great!
This is a truck hood used as a target backer so we could get dialed in at 300yds.

 

[J_D]

I have swapped out for a 20" barrel comparison of Lilja and Proof Carbon with both my CZ's. The Proof is noticeably lighter. I know where there are still a few in stock for $599.

The Lilja did require some head space washer adjustments to extract fired rounds, and the Proof was a complete bolt in. I just got back from the range to confirm zero at 50 and 100.

Both shoot lights out, I did only take a few boxes of SK Match, SK LR, and one open box of CX that I had. The POI shifts per type, and now thqt I have no worries, I'll do a deeper ammo lot comparison to distances up to 350yd + next weekend.

 

[nakoa01]

I am glad to hear that the proof did as I thought. Also glad it shot lights out. I feel better about not having gotten lucky and can move forward with a project

 

[J_D]

I wasn’t original as confident, but there’s only one way to really find out. I’m quite pleased so far.

 

[DrSquall]

Really wanting a Kidd supergrade rifle. Do you think putting it in a heavy chassis would help? It just seems like you have to have everything perfect to be consistent with them. I just got the bergara and it’s great!
Thanks
Jon

 

[nakoa01]

Really wanting a Kidd supergrade rifle. Do you think putting it in a heavy chassis would help? It just seems like you have to have everything perfect to be consistent with them. I just got the bergara and it’s great!
Thanks
Jon

If i had the bergara then I would spring for a kidd. They are the vudoo of semis. But I would buy the full kidd aupergrade with their bedded stock and rear anchor. Then if I wanted to add a chassis doen thr road I would. But at that price your into vudoo barreled action and possibly a trigger. If thr bolt gun itch is scratched I say go for it.

But you are right. Everything has tk be perfect to be consistent. Much more focus

 

[DLS]

I have a lefty Bergara B14R with carbon barrel which I feel shoots well enough but noted your comments on the Area 419 brake. So since that’s been a while back do you still consider that a good option to try or would a barrel tuner be an option I should consider?

 

[DrSquall]

If i had the bergara then I would spring for a kidd. They are the vudoo of semis. But I would buy the full kidd aupergrade with their bedded stock and rear anchor. Then if I wanted to add a chassis doen thr road I would. But at that price your into vudoo barreled action and possibly a trigger. If thr bolt gun itch is scratched I say go for it.

But you are right. Everything has tk be perfect to be consistent. Much more focus

I think I will do the full gun from Kidd and see how it does. I’ll put the razor on it and we will see. Thanks for your time.

Jon

 

[bubbaokie]

Very interesting post and informative. I think the CZ’s, the Begaras, and the vudoo all have their place. I have some of all of them, and enjoy them all. I have a Winchester 94-22 mag that is in my pickup all the time. Best little pest gun here on the ranch. Porcupines, skunks, coons, whatever have fallen to it. Nopdnn bc it won’t shoot as accurately as the others, but then I wouldn’t treat the others like I do the 94-22.

 

[nakoa01]

I think I will do the full gun from Kidd and see how it does. I’ll put the razor on it and we will see. Thanks for your time.

Jon

Keep me posted on results

 

[nakoa01]

I have a lefty Bergara B14R with carbon barrel which I feel shoots well enough but noted your comments on the Area 419 brake. So since that’s been a while back do you still consider that a good option to try or would a barrel tuner be an option I should consider?

I won't say a comp is better than a tuner. What I will say is that thr bergara carbon is a little light for front weight. Anything I have that is light in the front gets a 419 break. And I have seen positive improvement every tome I have added one. I don't know if it's harmonics or controling the recoil so the rifle doesn't move around as much. What I do is the carbon fiber barrels are a high 3s low 4s gun. With thr 419 I have gotten some groups in the 1s with center x. It makes the gun much more consistent and shooting right along with the steel barreld version. And personally the bergara carbon fiber factory rig is the best looking factory rig I have laid eyes on. I have had a few of them. Will have another regardless of how it shoots.

 

[sarcasmn]

I have a Bergara and a Vudoo. I use the Bergara for NRL22 and the Vudoo for PRSRimfire. The Bergara is in a KRG Bravo and is left light for the offhand stages but I think it could compete well in PRS too

The Vudoo is in an X-RAY has more weight and a tuner. I use the tuner to dial in different lots of ammo.

Both are great guns and I would give a slight accuracy edge to the Vudoo. I really like them both I just seem to enjoy shooting the Bergara a bit more. Maybe because I got it first.

 

[Matt_3479]

After the last 2 seasons of competing in rimfire prs I’ve come to a conclusion that I’d never buy a bergara. For the average shooter not putting a ton of rounds on the gun they are awesome and shoot extremely well, but heavy competition use we’ve seen more bergara’s fail then any other 22. For the mid price range I believe the cz is the toughest to beat.

Of the 3 bigger names I’m a fan of the vudoo. Out of the box it’s just too easy to shoot well. It eats eveehthing and spits it out in small groups. I did recently get a deuce and it’s proving to be fantastic but I don’t have the same amount of rounds to be fair to it yet. 22,000 rounds between my vudoo’s and 1000 through my deuce

 

[nakoa01]

Where to get the duece?

 

[Matt_3479]

Where to get the duece?

Ultimatum/ibi. It’s got a different feel but it’s super accurate. As or more accurate then my vudoo’s so far

 

[nakoa01]

Out of stock

 

[acudaowner]

comparisons are neat to see but if it's unknown which company donated the most and which the least it's hard to say just how objective any video is .or if the guns are being held just how honest is the person doing the shooting one shot is ultimately not going to be like another , a truely objective view point would show that unless they took the shooter completely out of the equation . still neat to see and neater to read thanks for the post .

 

[J_D]

comparisons are neat to see but if it's unknown which company donated the most and which the least it's hard to say just how objective any video is .or if the guns are being held just how honest is the person doing the shooting one shot is ultimately not going to be like another , a truely objective view point would show that unless they took the shooter completely out of the equation . still neat to see and neater to read thanks for the post .

That's why I compare on my own. This year alone I went through 3 Vudoos, 1 Bergara B14r, and my 2 CZ's.

I have kept 2 of the Vudoos, and both my CZ's. Competed in an ELR match today with my 20" Lilja CZ out to 400yds.

These guns are so personal it's really hard to say what works for everyone, but the more data out there makes it easier to start in a given direction. I'm waiting on a fully custom CZ from DP out in AZ......can't wait to try that one.

 

[Matt_3479]

Out of stock

Email [email protected] and he might be able to help. He’s taken over management of ultimatum

 

[Matt_3479]

comparisons are neat to see but if it's unknown which company donated the most and which the least it's hard to say just how objective any video is .or if the guns are being held just how honest is the person doing the shooting one shot is ultimately not going to be like another , a truely objective view point would show that unless they took the shooter completely out of the equation . still neat to see and neater to read thanks for the post .

I agree that sometimes you can have a very biased opinion based solely on the fact it’s sponsored or had stuff donated, or for the fact that just prefer brand x over others.

I have noticed opinions sway on customer service as well. Vudoo and zermatt are both known for phenomenal customer service where ultimatum is not. Now that ibi has taken over it’s a different story and customer service is great. In my area bergara’s customer service is mediocre but there rep is absolutely top notch and goes above and beyond to help bergara owners

 

[Stev0]

I agree that sometimes you can have a very biased opinion based solely on the fact it’s sponsored or had stuff donated, or for the fact that just prefer brand x over others.

I have noticed opinions sway on customer service as well. Vudoo and zermatt are both known for phenomenal customer service where ultimatum is not. Now that ibi has taken over it’s a different story and customer service is great. In my area bergara’s customer service is mediocre but there rep is absolutely top notch and goes above and beyond to help bergara owners

After the last 2 seasons of competing in rimfire prs I’ve come to a conclusion that I’d never buy a bergara. For the average shooter not putting a ton of rounds on the gun they are awesome and shoot extremely well, but heavy competition use we’ve seen more bergara’s fail then any other 22. For the mid price range I believe the cz is the toughest to beat.

Of the 3 bigger names I’m a fan of the vudoo. Out of the box it’s just too easy to shoot well. It eats eveehthing and spits it out in small groups. I did recently get a deuce and it’s proving to be fantastic but I don’t have the same amount of rounds to be fair to it yet. 22,000 rounds between my vudoo’s and 1000 through my deuce

Saying Bergara's customer service is mediocre but the rep is top notch seems contradictory. I'm curious what's breaking on all these Bergaras. You made the same statement a month ago. Mark CZ asked if you could elaborate and you never did. I just find it odd that all these rifles are breaking. I'm nearing 20,000 rounds through mine with only one failure. A failure to eject at Lapua earlier this year. Shane was working the bolt rather gingerly. It never failed on me before or after that.

 

[Matt_3479]

Saying Bergara's customer service is mediocre but the rep is top notch seems contradictory. I'm curious what's breaking on all these Bergaras. You made the same statement a month ago. Mark CZ asked if you could elaborate and you never did. I just find it odd that all these rifles are breaking. I'm nearing 20,000 rounds through mine with only one failure. A failure to eject at Lapua earlier this year. Shane was working the bolt rather gingerly. It never failed on me before or after that.

The rep is a local shooter and friend to many in our series. They all have his personal number so they just text him the parts they need and he brings them to the match. A shooter’s firing pin broke on a live round and fell out during ejection, and he called bergara themselves and he was the one saying they were mediocre. Not bad in anyway, but not outstanding either. Then we had a warm up day before our finale and his bolt broke in half some how.

I meant to ask the boys during our finale about the issues they are having but I completely forgot after the shit show of a shoot it was lol. I’m glad you haven’t experienced any issues I think everything about the bergara is a killer rifle until I started competing regularly and just seeing how many go down.

 

[MarkCZ]

After the last 2 seasons of competing in rimfire prs I’ve come to a conclusion that I’d never buy a bergara. For the average shooter not putting a ton of rounds on the gun they are awesome and shoot extremely well, but heavy competition use we’ve seen more bergara’s fail then any other 22. For the mid price range I believe the cz is the toughest to beat.

Of the 3 bigger names I’m a fan of the vudoo. Out of the box it’s just too easy to shoot well. It eats eveehthing and spits it out in small groups. I did recently get a deuce and it’s proving to be fantastic but I don’t have the same amount of rounds to be fair to it yet. 22,000 rounds between my vudoo’s and 1000 through my deuce

Once again you are saying the Bergara fail more than any other 22. But you still can't tell us what is happening to them. I guess I will have to check with Bergara, to find out what is happening, so I can have spare parts. I have 2 B14R's with tons of rounds on them, with no fails. Vudoo Guys have been bashing the Bergara's even before they came out, and it has not stopped.

You say Vudoo's will eat anything and spit out small groups. #3 of my friend have Vudoo's and all 3 will not eat any Eley ammo. This is a problem with the Vudoo's, it takes special follower and tuning to shoot Eley ammo. One friend's broke the bolt release the first time shooting it. So Vudoo's do fail also. In a earlier post, you said your Vudoo has some type of problem every 200 to 500 rounds. Have you seen any fail in matches. I know they do, guys have told me, that their guns has gone down, All guns will go down at some time or another for some reason.

 

[Matt_3479]

Once again you are saying the Bergara fail more than any other 22. But you still can't tell us what is happening to them. I guess I will have to check with Bergara, to find out what is happening, so I can have spare parts. I have 2 B14R's with tons of rounds on them, with no fails. Vudoo Guys have been bashing the Bergara's even before they came out, and it has not stopped.

You say Vudoo's will eat anything and spit out small groups. #3 of my friend have Vudoo's and all 3 will not eat any Eley ammo. This is a problem with the Vudoo's, it takes special follower and tuning to shoot Eley ammo. One friend's broke the bolt release the first time shooting it. So Vudoo's do fail also. In a earlier post, you said your Vudoo has some type of problem every 200 to 500 rounds. Have you seen any fail in matches. I know they do, guys have told me, that their guns has gone down, All guns will go down at some time or another for some reason.

Not more then any 22, just of the major 5 we shoot against. Vudoo, rimx, cz, tikka and bergara. There’s a ton of bergara shooters and the rifles preform very well as far as accuracy goes.

My 1:12 twist vudoo seems to foul a little sooner then my 1:16 twist and requires the chamber to be cleaned for a carbon ring between 500-700 otherwise bolt close is stiffer but still works. I also didn’t say vudoo’s don’t fail. Everyone makes a lemon now and then. I heard that vudoo 360 had a bad batch of Bolt stops. That special follower is free if you email vudoo and they will send you them.

Im not particularly a vudoo fan, I just think out of the box between the vudoo, rimx and deuce it seems to be the simplest. Out of the cz, tikka, and bergara I believe the cz is the best bang for buck. I don’t think any are miles above the other and you can make them all work well. My current preference happens to be the deuce. It just runs really nicely, but doesn’t feed without altercation to the vudoo mags