Vudoo V-22 light primer strikes

[Nygaard]

Finally managed to get a Vudoo across to Denmark, and what a beauty!
I have tried RWS, SK and Lapua Center-X through it and found that Center-X works extremely well. Below is a 10 shot group at 50m with the Center-X!

Unfortunately since day one, I have had occasional misfires due to light primer strikes.
The RWS had a few in between, SK was pretty bad and Center-X almost as bad as SK.

Every time a misfire have happened, I have not been able to successfully re-cock and get ignition.
Usually if I eject and re-chamber, I'm able to send the misfire down range at second or third try.

During my most recent range session, out of the first 200 rounds, i had 26 that failed to fire at first chambering.
All of those were Lapua Center-X, see picture below.

Have tried disassembling the bolt, clean and lightly lube all the moving parts, but doesn't seem to help any.
Action is a V-22 Gen 2, it currently has 1100 rounds through it.


Any suggestions on how to fix the issue? Could it be a light firing pin spring?

 

[Masojoh]

I would PM this guy. He can help.

@RAVAGE88

RAVAGE88

www.snipershide.com

 

[AirGunShawn]

Nice shooting.... My V22 was lot tested and liked Center X even over Midas plus. anyway....
Your spring may have broken near to one of it's ends reducing it's pre-load but you have had yours apart. You have probably done tis but
I would take the bolt apart and inspect for any small burr.
Without any springs, I would push the firing pin through the hole from both directions
making certain that everything moves freely without any hang up. I would also measure its' over all length. Honestly I have looked at so many FPs that I have forgotten the details of the Vudoo but basically it's a rod in a hole. Or a flat plate in a groove..... If it moves freely there is not much to go wrong. I would get a hold of Jill at Vudoo and explain that your in Denmark and she will help you until it is resolved. Your gun has a lifetime satisfaction guarantee and if your not happy they will go so far as to buy back your entire gun purchase. I suspect that if you asked Jill for a new FP and spring she would have one in the mail tomorrow. Vudoo has a great reputation and it's not worth jeopardizing over $5.00 in parts.
btw... Personally I also bought some spare extractor fingers and springs because they are about $1.50 each.
They may never break but they are stupid small and easy to loose while cleaning the bolt.
My tolerance for light strikes is near ZERO. Honestly, none of my guns do that with any ammo.

 

[bburnham]

Finally managed to get a Vudoo across to Denmark, and what a beauty!
I have tried RWS, SK and Lapua Center-X through it and found that Center-X works extremely well. Below is a 10 shot group at 50m with the Center-X!

Unfortunately since day one, I have had occasional misfires due to light primer strikes.
The RWS had a few in between, SK was pretty bad and Center-X almost as bad as SK.

Every time a misfire have happened, I have not been able to successfully re-cock and get ignition.
Usually if I eject and re-chamber, I'm able to send the misfire down range at second or third try.

During my most recent range session, out of the first 200 rounds, i had 26 that failed to fire at first chambering.
All of those were Lapua Center-X, see picture below.

Have tried disassembling the bolt, clean and lightly lube all the moving parts, but doesn't seem to help any.
Action is a V-22 Gen 2, it currently has 1100 rounds through it.


Any suggestions on how to fix the issue? Could it be a light firing pin spring?

I had a problem with light strikes with a new Vudoo, a few months ago. Paul at Vudoo explained how to adjust spring tension and problem was solved.

 

[Hozzie]

Nice rig. Looks to me like the pin strike is a bit far out. With those crescent firing pins, I think it is a little more sensitive to that. I would expect Vudoo could let you know what they think pretty quickly on that.

 

[littlepod]

Did you make sure your action is properly fully set back on the recoil lug?

 

[Travelor]

Don't do anything until you contact Ravage. I expect a simple fix.

 

[Nygaard]

Just got back home after a weekend PRS match and have shot Ravage a PM regarding this.
Will come back with an update once the rifle is back up to speed

Your spring may have broken near to one of it's ends reducing it's pre-load but you have had yours apart. You have probably done tis but
I would take the bolt apart and inspect for any small burr.

Didn't notice any irregularities to be honest, but will double check it.

Did you make sure your action is properly fully set back on the recoil lug?

The action is all the way aft on the recoil lug and torqued to 65 inch-punds, don't suspect this to be an issue.

 

[Hegre]

I had a problem with light strikes with a new Vudoo, a few months ago. Paul at Vudoo explained how to adjust spring tension and problem was solved.

Could you post it here?

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I pulled my bolt apart and cleaned it, second time doing this, and upon firing on the firing line, I got light primer strikes and no ignition. I pulled the bolt on the firing line and "unscrewed" the firing pin a turn or two as to give it a bit more reach and all was good. Not sure if this is a fix or not, just wanted to relay by experience.

*Gen 2 action/bolt.

 

[Criver600]

Buddy of mine's Vudoo had light strikes couple of rounds every magazine. Shit-canned the timney trigger, problem solved.

 

[Hegre]

Buddy of mine's Vudoo had light strikes couple of rounds every magazine. Shit-canned the timney trigger problem solved.

Interesting. Ours does actually have a Timney two stage.
Could you ask him for more details?

Could this be a Timney warranty issue and or can it be fixed?

 

[Criver600]

He went with a Bix & Andy two stage, problem solved.

 

[pballkm21]

I've seen issues like this happen with Timney triggers

 

[Cowpokey]

I put a Timney in my Ruger American Rimfire Target, it's still installed, only because it's better than the stock trigger. When I ordered my Vudoo, Timney was the default, I went with the TT Diamond, and haven't looked back.

 

[Gjmen22]

When I first received my V22 it had the crescent style firing pin and had a lot of FTF's. Vudoo sent me the chisel type firing pin and never had a problem since.

Gjmen22

 

[BigJimFish]

Interesting. Ours does actually have a Timney two stage.
Could you ask him for more details?

Could this be a Timney warranty issue and or can it be fixed?

I suspect that this issue OP is having is a poor interaction between the Timney trigger design and the Vudoo action. Remember that we are talking about triggers that were all originally designed as replacements for a stock centerfire Remington 700. As we deviate from that by using a particular trigger on 700 footprint .22rf with it's lighter spring, some trigger designs will fare better than others. This is not the trigger makers fault, the trigger works fine for it's intended use, it just might not stretch to ours, or, it may take another modification to make it do so.

In the case of the Timney and the Vudoo, it seems many have problems due to the Timney design soaking up more energy from the firing pin than some other triggers. Being a rimfire, the Vudoo has less spare energy. It is my understanding that this is even more the case with the, also rimfire, RimX action. I suspect you could successfully address the problem in a variety of ways.

1) You could add a stiffer firing pin spring such as the one Vudoo sells for those intending to use the harder cased Eley or CCI rounds to simply provide more firing pin energy. Given that it appears you are close to enough energy as most rounds go off, I expect a simple spring swap would solve your issue. Provided you otherwise like the trigger, I would give Vudoo a call to obtain the stiffer spring and ask them about this solution to see what they think.

2) You could switch to a trigger with less firing pin drag such as the Bix n' Andy which I believe is the lowest in this regard or the TriggerTech which seems to work fine. I have not experienced light strikes with either of these triggers in my gen 2 Vudoo even when using the light Lapua spring on harder Eley and CCI cases. Similarly, nobody else seems to have light strikes with these triggers. This is a more involved solution but after selling off the Timney your still probably not out much.

3) You might try the switch to the smaller headed firing pin that Gjmenn22 mentioned. This will concentrate the energy you have in a smaller area. Most .22lr designs have small chisel or pointy firing pin ends for this reason. I expect generally this would lead to higher ignition reliability but also make you more susceptible hitting a gap in the primer powder on cheaper ammo from time to time and having an FtF from that.

4) I would not recommend Jefe's suggestion about the firing pin unscrewing as I don't believe that would have any effect. The firing pin protrusion for a Vudoo action does not change with the firing pin being screwed or unscrewed from the cocking piece. This can be seen in a labled diagram I put in my V-22 review. The firing pin stops on a big shoulder near the front of the firing pin and protrusion is not easily or simply adjustable. It would require grinding metal to do so. I would not recommend this for a variety of reasons. Of course, if you get some gunk in your bolt where that shoulder comes to stop, you will get insufficient firing pin protrusion so do check that area for build up of gunk.

 

[Criver600]

In the case of the Timney and the Vudoo, it seems many have problems due to the Timney design soaking up more energy from the firing pin than some other triggers.

2) You could switch to a trigger with less firing pin drag such as the Bix n' Andy which I believe is the lowest in this regard or the TriggerTech which seems to work fine.

Yes to the first sentence.

Good information.

Buddy with the Vudoo/Timney got really fast a "re-cocking" the trigger and going on with the stage.
Picked up a Bix & Andy certificate and has not had one mis-fire since installing said trigger.

 

[Hegre]

I suspect that this issue OP is having is a poor interaction between the Timney trigger design and the Vudoo action. Remember that we are talking about triggers that were all originally designed as replacements for a stock centerfire Remington 700. As we deviate from that by using a particular trigger on 700 footprint .22rf with it's lighter spring, some trigger designs will fare better than others. This is not the trigger makers fault, the trigger works fine for it's intended use, it just might not stretch to ours, or, it may take another modification to make it do so.

In the case of the Timney and the Vudoo, it seems many have problems due to the Timney design soaking up more energy from the firing pin than some other triggers. Being a rimfire, the Vudoo has less spare energy. It is my understanding that this is even more the case with the, also rimfire, RimX action. I suspect you could successfully address the problem in a variety of ways.

1) You could add a stiffer firing pin spring such as the one Vudoo sells for those intending to use the harder cased Eley or CCI rounds to simply provide more firing pin energy. Given that it appears you are close to enough energy as most rounds go off, I expect a simple spring swap would solve your issue. Provided you otherwise like the trigger, I would give Vudoo a call to obtain the stiffer spring and ask them about this solution to see what they think.

2) You could switch to a trigger with less firing pin drag such as the Bix n' Andy which I believe is the lowest in this regard or the TriggerTech which seems to work fine. I have not experienced light strikes with either of these triggers in my gen 2 Vudoo even when using the light Lapua spring on harder Eley and CCI cases. Similarly, nobody else seems to have light strikes with these triggers. This is a more involved solution but after selling off the Timney your still probably not out much.

3) You might try the switch to the smaller headed firing pin that Gjmenn22 mentioned. This will concentrate the energy you have in a smaller area. Most .22lr designs have small chisel or pointy firing pin ends for this reason. I expect generally this would lead to higher ignition reliability but also make you more susceptible hitting a gap in the primer powder on cheaper ammo from time to time and having an FtF from that.

4) I would not recommend Jefe's suggestion about the firing pin unscrewing as I don't believe that would have any effect. The firing pin protrusion for a Vudoo action does not change with the action being screwed or unscrewed from the cocking piece. This can be seen in a labled diagram I put in my V-22 review. The firing pin stops on a big shoulder near the front of the firing pin and protrusion is not easily or simply adjustable. It would require grinding metal to do so. I would not recommend this for a variety of reasons. Of course, if you get some gunk in your bolt where that shoulder comes to stop, you will get insufficient firing pin protrusion so do check that area for build up of gunk.

Very helpful. I already had a new pin and spring sent which at first seemed to have fixed the issue, but it later came back although not nearly as frequently. Will likely try a TT two stage.

 

[Nygaard]

I suspect that this issue OP is having is a poor interaction between the Timney trigger design and the Vudoo action. Remember that we are talking about triggers that were all originally designed as replacements for a stock centerfire Remington 700. As we deviate from that by using a particular trigger on 700 footprint .22rf with it's lighter spring, some trigger designs will fare better than others. This is not the trigger makers fault, the trigger works fine for it's intended use, it just might not stretch to ours, or, it may take another modification to make it do so.

In the case of the Timney and the Vudoo, it seems many have problems due to the Timney design soaking up more energy from the firing pin than some other triggers. Being a rimfire, the Vudoo has less spare energy. It is my understanding that this is even more the case with the, also rimfire, RimX action. I suspect you could successfully address the problem in a variety of ways.

1) You could add a stiffer firing pin spring such as the one Vudoo sells for those intending to use the harder cased Eley or CCI rounds to simply provide more firing pin energy. Given that it appears you are close to enough energy as most rounds go off, I expect a simple spring swap would solve your issue. Provided you otherwise like the trigger, I would give Vudoo a call to obtain the stiffer spring and ask them about this solution to see what they think.

2) You could switch to a trigger with less firing pin drag such as the Bix n' Andy which I believe is the lowest in this regard or the TriggerTech which seems to work fine. I have not experienced light strikes with either of these triggers in my gen 2 Vudoo even when using the light Lapua spring on harder Eley and CCI cases. Similarly, nobody else seems to have light strikes with these triggers. This is a more involved solution but after selling off the Timney your still probably not out much.

3) You might try the switch to the smaller headed firing pin that Gjmenn22 mentioned. This will concentrate the energy you have in a smaller area. Most .22lr designs have small chisel or pointy firing pin ends for this reason. I expect generally this would lead to higher ignition reliability but also make you more susceptible hitting a gap in the primer powder on cheaper ammo from time to time and having an FtF from that.

4) I would not recommend Jefe's suggestion about the firing pin unscrewing as I don't believe that would have any effect. The firing pin protrusion for a Vudoo action does not change with the firing pin being screwed or unscrewed from the cocking piece. This can be seen in a labled diagram I put in my V-22 review. The firing pin stops on a big shoulder near the front of the firing pin and protrusion is not easily or simply adjustable. It would require grinding metal to do so. I would not recommend this for a variety of reasons. Of course, if you get some gunk in your bolt where that shoulder comes to stop, you will get insufficient firing pin protrusion so do check that area for build up of gunk.

A lot of good info and a few things to try out, appreciate it.

When ordering the rifle, I had the trigger upgraded to a TriggerTech Diamond 2-stage, so shouldn't be the Timney issue.

After the first post I took the bolt completely apart for cleaning and gave it a light coat of ProShot CLP on assembly. Have only been at the range one time since, but it brought the misfires down to 5% with RWS Club ammo though.

So far it has 1300 rounds through it, and probably the same amount of dry fire. Maybe it just needs a little time to settle in and frequent cleaning here in the beginning?

 

[iceng]

To quickly clear up the trigger issue. I've had WAY more issues with TT that Timney. I own 7 timneys currently, and had 3 TTs. 2 went back under warr, and didn't want to risk the 3rd, so sold it, got a ce532, and had change.
Every case is different. Some have the complete opposite to me. And that's fine.

As for the original topic. Rare, but happens. @RAVAGE88 will sort you out on firing pin issues.

I'm gonna comment that I had a customer with an Anschutz (gonna saw 1417 ???) And it would sometimes light strike. We ended up feeding it euro ammo and the problem went away. He was using CCI for prac (never an issue) and tried.... Something else, and that's when it would randomly misfire.

Fed it a steady diet of euro made ammo, and was great.

Euro headspace / rim thickness VS USA rim.thickness was different. (1.0mm vs 1.1mm). And this caused it.

I'm going from memory, so someone check the Saami specs / standards to verify, as it was a few years ago

 

[Hegre]

We had a big match today and my wife placed second with her Vudoo despite three misfires out of a little over 100 rounds. Considering there was 1 point between her and the winner this is not trivial in a high end competition rifle.
I might be seeing a pattern where failures are most frequent at temperatures just above freezing combined with high humidity .
It is a great gun, and I kind of want another for myself, but this needs to be fixed.

 

[Lastsaint21]

When mine light strikes, it means either my bolt needs cleaned or, I cleaned it and my firing pin is screwed in to far. I brake it down and unscrew a turn or two and it's ready to go.

 

[flatland1]

There's a video on VGW's website that deals with the adjustment of the striker, and how to tell if it's correct or not, using a strip of paper between the square shoulder of the striker and the shelf in the bolt nose that the shoulder bears against when it's in the fired position.

I'm a little confused here with the photo of Nygaard's rifle and the impression on the Lapua cases - I've never seen a Vudoo repeater come from the factory with the crescent-shaped striker, only with the chisel style. But his rifle appears to be a repeater, with a magazine, while the FP indentation in the cases in the photo definitely being that of a crescent striker???

 

[littlesister]

There's a video on VGW's website that deals with the adjustment of the striker, and how to tell if it's correct or not, using a strip of paper between the square shoulder of the striker and the shelf in the bolt nose that the shoulder bears against when it's in the fired position.

I'm a little confused here with the photo of Nygaard's rifle and the impression on the Lapua cases - I've never seen a Vudoo repeater come from the factory with the crescent-shaped striker, only with the chisel style. But his rifle appears to be a repeater, with a magazine, while the FP indentation in the cases in the photo definitely being that of a crescent striker???

I believe some of the first Vudoo repeaters did come with the crescent pin as did the single shots. They have since gone to the chisel tip simply because they were never able to produce reliable ignition with the crescent pin. My opinion is that the crescent pin doesn't work well with SAP ignition though it will work with PAS ignition as the Diorio V3 Turbo comes with the crescent pin and has very reliable ignition. Also I don't believe anyone has proven one shape is better than the other.

 

[Csafisher]

My Gen 2 has a crescent firing pin. It had light primer strikes out the gate. But they sent me a 22lb firing pin spring and that solved the issue. However, I had several light strikes at a match last month. Cleaned it really well and it shot fine again today…

 

[Jefe's Dope]

There's a video on VGW's website that deals with the adjustment of the striker, and how to tell if it's correct or not, using a strip of paper between the square shoulder of the striker and the shelf in the bolt nose that the shoulder bears against when it's in the fired position.

I'm a little confused here with the photo of Nygaard's rifle and the impression on the Lapua cases - I've never seen a Vudoo repeater come from the factory with the crescent-shaped striker, only with the chisel style. But his rifle appears to be a repeater, with a magazine, while the FP indentation in the cases in the photo definitely being that of a crescent striker???

My Gen 2 has a crescent firing pin. It had light primer strikes out the gate. But they sent me a 22lb firing pin spring and that solved the issue. However, I had several light strikes at a match last month. Cleaned it really well and it shot fine again today…

My Gen 2 has the crescent firing pin. I also had light primer strikes recently after bolt disassembly and reassembly. When I contacted Vudoo, they advised I try the video which shows how to time the firing pin using the pieces of paper. Haven't made it to the range to test.

 

[akmike47]

I'm not trying to be a dick, but if I had that kind of money tied up in a .22lr and it didn't work right from the get go without mods I'd be real annoyed to say the least.

 

[flatland1]

It's not that the Gen 2 & 3 Vudoo bolts need 'mods' - they've been designed to allow the user to make adjustments to optimize ignition. And it's a very simple & straightforward process.

 

[iceng]

Heaven forbid a new car comes with adjustable seat and steering wheel, or a rifle with adjustable cheek and LOP.

An action having adjustability built in for different ammo is a smart piece of engineering, probably why it featured in later, not early gens.

 

[littlesister]

My Gen 2 has a crescent firing pin. It had light primer strikes out the gate. But they sent me a 22lb firing pin spring and that solved the issue. However, I had several light strikes at a match last month. Cleaned it really well and it shot fine again today…

Yes, you can increase spring rates to the point that any shape pin will eventually go bang but as you increase spring rates you also increase vibration in the ignition system. Vibration is not good for accuracy. I would opt for the chisel tip pin and the lightest pin spring that would give consistent ignition.

My Gen 2 has a crescent firing pin. It had light primer strikes out the gate. But they sent me a 22lb firing pin spring and that solved the issue. However, I had several light strikes at a match last month. Cleaned it really well and it shot fine again today…

 

[Rob01]

My Vudoo is a Gen 1 and serial number 10 and has a pin that does this. Just for reference.

 

[Nygaard]

Last time at the range, the Vudoo was extremely picky with the Lapua's.
Approx. 50% of the 200 rounds i fired that day, failed to fire at first chambering.

Have since done some tinkering with the firing pin.

First I made a small copper shim to go in front of the firing pin spring and tested. Went from 50% FTF to 20%.
Then i tried backing out the firing pin one additional round from where it's supposed to be locked in place by the grub screw, and now got 0% FTF!

Below pictures shows the copper shim and cases before and after the modifications.
The 5 cases in the left row is before modifications, and the 5 in the right row is after.
There is only a slight difference in the depth of the detent in the cases, but enough to make them go boom

Also i have stopped using CLP for the bolt, instead using some weapon grease containing teflon now.
The mods does not seem to have affected accuracy in any way, so I will leave it as it is for now.

 

[flatland1]

I realize this is an older thread, but felt it was worth updating. When the thread was started, I had three Gen 1 repeaters, all with chisel firing pins, and I'd never had a FTF, nor seen the crescent pin until I bought my 1st V22S. Since the single shot actions come with a set of five different striker springs, there's always the temptation to experiment with the lighter springs, which I did. But I started having FTFs with SK/Lapua ammo immediately after going to the 14lb spring, and blamed them on the lighter spring. But after watching the bolt assembly & striker adjustment videos on the Vudoo site, I realized I hadn't counted the number of turns out from dead-ended of the striker, so went back, checked, and turned it out one more turn from where I'd had it, and it noticeably reduced the FTFs, but didn't totally fix the problem. I finally wound up using the green/16lb spring, and am g-t-g with that spring, the later revised version of the crescent pin, and one turn out from dead end. That's in an action with the 90* cocking piece for use with the Flavio Fare trigger.

I later bought another single shot action, only with the 60* cocking piece, and used a M22 CG Extreme 2-stage trigger. This action came with the chisel firing pin, and out of curiosity, I swapped it out for a spare revised crescent pin. I tinkered with a few of the striker springs, and with the crescent pin one & two turns out, but finally got tired of messing with it, and went back to the chisel pin, the red 14lb spring, and 2 turns out. Haven't had any FTFs since, and accuracy is very good, so as long as I have the M22 trigger on it, that's where I'll stay. This rifle is set up for prone smallbore, with a really nice English walnut stock from Doan Trevor, and I'm very happy with it. But I've never gotten the M22 trigger adjusted to feel as good to me as a plain old single stage Jewell HVR, and I'm tempted to try a Jewell. We've had one of the hottest summers on record here, with day after day after day of triple digit temps, and a good deal of wind, so I haven't had the opportunity to shoot as much as I'd normally do. And now that the temperatures have cooled off a bit, and we've had quite a few very nice days with light winds, I've been so busy with farm work that there's been no opportunity to shoot. But sooner or later, I'm going to get time & opportunity, and will probably play with a Jewell.

 

[J_D]

I had this problem on my first Vudoo.....I swapped out the Timney for a Triggertech Diamond and it went away.

There a youtube video from X-Ring that posts the issue. I saw that, and that was it for sure in my case.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

My Gen 2 has the crescent firing pin. I also had light primer strikes recently after bolt disassembly and reassembly. When I contacted Vudoo, they advised I try the video which shows how to time the firing pin using the pieces of paper. Haven't made it to the range to test.

I'll also update.

After watching and following the Voodoo's video, I've had no FTFs and I've shot at least 500 rounds since. Midas and Biathlon +.

 

[JimTN]

I shoot Eley Match black box in my V22-s, have very few FTF's, and those usually go bang by ejecting that round and re-loading it in the normal manner. I assume it's thin/no primer in that particular spot. I adjusted/backed the FP spring out one additional turn from the factory setting, per a video on the VGW site, still using the green color coded spring IIRC, but did remove all of the green paint. Some matches I have no FTF's, but the last match I had 2, but those went bang when loaded in a different position.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Buys a $2k+ barreled action and throws a budget/shitty trigger on there. Makes sense.

As said, use a good trigger like TT or B&A and you won't have issues.