Vudoo V-22 Rebarrel

[brentwinkey]

Hey guys just looking for some insight/advise. I have a 16.5 in kurki in a krg bravo chassis. I'm looking to possibly go up to a 20-22in barrel. I'm pretty frustrated with how it shoots... it'll shoot great basically one hole at 50yds for then shots then maybe a group the size of a half dollar the next 10 shots and back and forth. In shooting what I believe is a good lot of center x. Good sd's/es ect. I'm just curious what the opinion is on going to a 2 or 3 groove benchmark barrel in a 20 or 22in length...maybe that'll help settles things down. My one concern is that from reading benchrest type information is that the 2groove benchmark barrels only shoot good in the warm weather. Being from MN that concerns me. Let me know you guys think. Thanks Brent

 

[orkan]

I run mostly 3groove benchmarks. Mine shoot fantastic in cold weather as evidenced by videos I put out on my original RimX.

 

[brentwinkey]

I run mostly 3groove benchmarks. Mine shoot fantastic in cold weather as evidenced by videos I put out on my original RimX.

I have watched most of them videos and that where I was getting the idea of sticking with 3 grooves. Just about everything I read poking around in 22rf benchrest stuff guys are saying that 2 grooves really only shoot at 60-70 degrees and above. Half our nrl season is below freezing here in MN. I'll have to get ahold of vudoo and see if they will work with benchmark barrels.

 

[brentwinkey]

I run mostly 3groove benchmarks. Mine shoot fantastic in cold weather as evidenced by videos I put out on my original RimX.

I see you kind of promoted the longer barrels. What's your view on 20-22in. I think 24-26in would get a little long for the tight nrl 22 stages

 

[littlepod]

For NRL22, I'd still go with the 16.5-18" barrels. I wouldn't blame the barrel on it not grouping well. I've done numerous 6x5's with SK+, not even Center-X, and I consistently will land a 6x5, 10x5 in the .25" - .3" at 50 yards. Something doesn't seem right. I'm running a 18" Kukri.

Have you ever cleaned your barrel? Get rid of the carbon ring? After about 1500-2000 rounds I started getting flyers, and then I did a cleaning and got rid of the carbon ring. Flyers went away.

 

[brentwinkey]

For NRL22, I'd still go with the 16.5-18" barrels. I wouldn't blame the barrel on it not grouping well. I've done numerous 6x5's with SK+, not even Center-X, and I consistently will land a 6x5, 10x5 in the .25" - .3" at 50 yards. Something doesn't seem right. I'm running a 18" Kukri.

Have you ever cleaned your barrel? Get rid of the carbon ring? After about 1500-2000 rounds I started getting flyers, and then I did a cleaning and got rid of the carbon ring. Flyers went away.

Yeah it's clean...it has 2 nrl matches on it and about 100 rds from lot testing. So 300-400 at most on it from the last good cleaning. I'm just frustrated with the inconsistency mostly. It's all over the board for me. I'm definitely considering a 18in too. Idk im thinking of not running my can anymore. I have a suspicion that it is my culprit for flyers and inconsistent groups but some of the best groups I've ever shot was with a pretty dirty can.

 

[littlepod]

Yeah it's clean...it has 2 nrl matches on it and about 100 rds from lot testing. So 300-400 at most on it from the last good cleaning. I'm just frustrated with the inconsistency mostly. It's all over the board for me. I'm definitely considering a 18in too. Idk im thinking of not running my can anymore. I have a suspicion that it is my culprit for flyers and inconsistent groups but some of the best groups I've ever shot was with a pretty dirty can.

Consistency beats random best groups. In the Wednesday NRL22 match, my friend shot one of his best groups ever at 100 yards... unsupported prone with a sling. It wasn't intentional, it just happened to happen... He landed 4 within 1/2"

 

[brentwinkey]

Consistency beats random best groups. In the Wednesday NRL22 match, my friend shot one of his best groups ever at 100 yards... unsupported prone with a sling. It wasn't intentional, it just happened to happen... He landed 4 within 1/2"

I totally agree... consistency is definitely my main concern. That's where my frustration is coming from.

 

[littlepod]

At the Lapua testing center, a person sent his rifle in with a suppressor, and it shot worse groups with the suppressor.

 

[brentwinkey]

At the Lapua testing center, a person sent his rifle in with a suppressor, and it shot worse groups with the suppressor.

Yeah I can definitely see that. I love shooting my dead air mask but your harmonics and other variables are constantly changing with a can

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I have a 24 inch to groove benchmark barrel and I never thought of it as being a warm weather gun, but more that I see a difference in the morning doping at 200yards at 60f and afternoon shooting at 80 to 90° van de difference of over a mill, which is not explained by density altitude by itself.

i’m not re-barreling until I hear more about the fast twist results and potential new projectiles.

 

[littlepod]

I have a 24 inch to groove benchmark barrel and I never thought of it as being a warm weather gun, but more that I see a difference in the morning doping at 200yards at 60f and afternoon shooting at 80 to 90° van de difference of over a mill, which is not explained by density altitude by itself.

i’m not re-barreling until I hear more about the fast twist results and potential new projectiles.

I have chrono'd my ammo extensively. At 60f temperature, my ammo shoots at 1081 fps. At 90 degrees, it shoots at 1105. That's a significant dope change at 200y.

 

[brentwinkey]

I have chrono'd my ammo extensively. At 60f temperature, my ammo shoots at 1081 fps. At 90 degrees, it shoots at 1105. That's a significant dope change at 200y.

What's your vudoo setup?

 

[littlepod]

Vudoo 18" Kukri
MDT ACC Chassis Cut Down

Scope got upgraded to a Tract 4.5-30x56 since this picture.

 

[JaoeyP]

Before you do anything I have to ask, have you contacted Vudoo? They are well known for standing behind their product. They likely will want to check your rifle over.

 

[brentwinkey]

Before you do anything I have to ask, have you contacted Vudoo? They are well known for standing behind their product. They likely will want to check your rifle over.

No I have not...I'm sure it's something im doing and nothing to do with the rifle. Im thinking the can is causing my inconsistency for the most part. It's shot a decent amount of good groups. I'm thinking of rebarreling it to a longer barrel and not running a can anymore unless I'm just plinking

 

[Krob95]

So I shot last night 4 6x5’s at 50 and 100yds indoors with and with out a suppressor. With the suppressor my groups were consistently larger with the can. Still extremely accurate but bigger than unsuppressed. Top two are suppressed and bottom two are unsuppressed

 

[Krob95]

And this is with a 18” proof CF barrel and a 22TD (for the suppressed shots)

 

[brentwinkey]

And this is with a 18” proof CF barrel and a 22TD (for the suppressed shots)

I jealous of the 100yd indoor range. Shooting more of the elr type stuff the consistency is definitely important. Seems like unsuppressed is the way to go. Reading some info about unsuppressed vs suppressed I see guys talking 3-4in groups at 300yds no can and 6-8in groups at 300 with can.

 

[Krob95]

I’m lucky to live close pretty close to it too lol it’s definitely handy when trying to shoot for groups with a 22. Eliminates the weather factor. 2MOA at 300 yds suppressed is still something to write home about considering the fact but moa at 300yds is way cooler.

Needless to say tho, if you’re going to rebarrel, I’d send it back to vudoo. That way if any issues arise it’s in their court and they can get you squared away a lot easier.

 

[brentwinkey]

I’m lucky to live close pretty close to it too lol it’s definitely handy when trying to shoot for groups with a 22. Eliminates the weather factor. 2MOA at 300 yds suppressed is still something to write home about considering the fact but moa at 300yds is way cooler.

Needless to say tho, if you’re going to rebarrel, I’d send it back to vudoo. That way if any issues arise it’s in their court and they can get you squared away a lot easier.

Yeah that would steller for ammo testing. Yeah it would be going back to vudoo...I believe it's $400ish for a barrel change

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I have chrono'd my ammo extensively. At 60f temperature, my ammo shoots at 1081 fps. At 90 degrees, it shoots at 1105. That's a significant dope change at 200y.

That would be an internal ballistic, not external ballistic issue, right? Temp of the gun and ammo versus the air the bullet is traveling?

i assume the ammo is driving that difference the most, followed by the barrel?

 

[littlepod]

From using my Kestrel Elite, I don't see very much change in terms of bullet drop from the varying conditions of heat. But the ammo change as the biggest factor. Not sure about how the barrel is, as it doesn't really get that hot, and my barrel is pretty thick and heavy to not really expand/contract.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

You need to eliminate your scope as a possible culprit. I had consistency issues with my Vudoo wherein it would shoot the normal dime-size-or-better group at 50 yards, I'd make an adjustment, and the next group as often as not was way bigger and away from expected POI. Turned out the scope was bad, and was replaced.

 

[brentwinkey]

You need to eliminate your scope as a possible culprit. I had consistency issues with my Vudoo wherein it would shoot the normal dime-size-or-better group at 50 yards, I'd make an adjustment, and the next group as often as not was way bigger and away from expected POI. Turned out the scope was bad, and was replaced.

I hope it wouldn't be the scope being a pretty much new zcomp in a spuhr mouth but there has been stranger things happen

 

[Krob95]

I hope it wouldn't be the scope being a pretty much new zcomp in a spuhr mouth but there has been stranger things happen

i blame my ZCO for my shitty shooting so you can too On a serious note, is everything torqued properly too between the caps and the mount screws?

 

[brentwinkey]

i blame my ZCO for my shitty shooting so you can too On a serious note, is everything torqued properly too between the caps and the mount screws?

Haha...I'll definitely have to now that I'm thinking about it

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I hope it wouldn't be the scope being a pretty much new zcomp in a spuhr mouth but there has been stranger things happen

I hope not too because I have a ZCO/Spuhr on order.

But nothing manmade is totally beyond suspicion. Back in the '90s, the barrels on my brand-new Kolar skeet gun would rust black over the span of one day shooting in damp or wet weather. Turned out to be a bad batch of barrel steel, undetectable until the gun was out in the wild. Kolar replaced the barrels, no problem since. I ran into the distributor at the Masters shoot in Savannah the following year and told him about it; he said that in three decades of selling tournament-grade shotguns he had seen every single piece of all makes of shotguns rust like my barrels did. Nothing is perfect.

 

[littlepod]

I hope it wouldn't be the scope being a pretty much new zcomp in a spuhr mouth but there has been stranger things happen

Parallax and high zoom. Just because it's clear doesn't mean it's parallax free. Make sure you're parallax is perfect.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Check you can for end strikes.

 

[DrainTheSwamp]

If you’re running suppressed have you checked to see how dirty your crown is? Carbon ring? I’ve had bad first round fliers on my 18 inch vudoo that were fixed after scrubbing the chamber area.

 

[brentwinkey]

If you’re running suppressed have you checked to see how dirty your crown is? Carbon ring? I’ve had bad first round fliers on my 18 inch vudoo that were fixed after scrubbing the chamber area.

Yeah I've cleaned it...I'm pretty much running it without a can now...much more consistent now without a can. I'll wait to see if I go back to suppressed once my other 22 can come out of jail.

 

[Rlb40x]

Hey guys just looking for some insight/advise. I have a 16.5 in kurki in a krg bravo chassis. I'm looking to possibly go up to a 20-22in barrel. I'm pretty frustrated with how it shoots... it'll shoot great basically one hole at 50yds for then shots then maybe a group the size of a half dollar the next 10 shots and back and forth. In shooting what I believe is a good lot of center x. Good sd's/es ect. I'm just curious what the opinion is on going to a 2 or 3 groove benchmark barrel in a 20 or 22in length...maybe that'll help settles things down. My one concern is that from reading benchrest type information is that the 2groove benchmark barrels only shoot good in the warm weather. Being from MN that concerns me. Let me know you guys think. Thanks Brent

If your not shooting over wind flags it's possible for the best barrels and ammo to open up that much from a mid range wind shift. I've had 1 out of six flags suddenly turn and that's sometimes enough to take it out that far.
As far as the Benchmark 2 grooves, they used to be very good barrels. I won two ARA outdoor nationals with a 17 3/4" twist 2 groove. Mine was a early version with larger inside dimensions. After a couple years they tightened them up a bit. In the same time frame, the Eley Bullets were made a touch longer. That with cooler weather the longer bullets and tighter bores of the newer barrels would sometimes not completely stabilize. I mainly shot Lapua Midas M in mine and didn't have issues, but it would shoot Eley just as good some days.
The last new one I had chambered was a 16 1/2 twist and it felt very tight. It shot good, but I knew it wouldn't be good enough to win in a large crowd.
I'm now using a Broughton 5C in a 17" twist. But for an all around use barrel, I'd say go with a Muller, Lilja or Shilen in a 16" twist, especially for your location. I also had a very good Pac nor barrel several years ago but sold the gun.
Two grooves can be great, but they can also be a fight.
My opinion isnt Science based, it's just an observation of 20 years of BR shooting.

 

[Sgeorge]

What action is the Broughton 5C on now?

 

[Rlb40x]

What action is the Broughton 5C on now?

A Stiller Trident, FF trigger.

 

[Sgeorge]

Thank you

 

[brentwinkey]

If your not shooting over wind flags it's possible for the best barrels and ammo to open up that much from a mid range wind shift. I've had 1 out of six flags suddenly turn and that's sometimes enough to take it out that far.
As far as the Benchmark 2 grooves, they used to be very good barrels. I won two ARA outdoor nationals with a 17 3/4" twist 2 groove. Mine was a early version with larger inside dimensions. After a couple years they tightened them up a bit. In the same time frame, the Eley Bullets were made a touch longer. That with cooler weather the longer bullets and tighter bores of the newer barrels would sometimes not completely stabilize. I mainly shot Lapua Midas M in mine and didn't have issues, but it would shoot Eley just as good some days.
The last new one I had chambered was a 16 1/2 twist and it felt very tight. It shot good, but I knew it wouldn't be good enough to win in a large crowd.
I'm now using a Broughton 5C in a 17" twist. But for an all around use barrel, I'd say go with a Muller, Lilja or Shilen in a 16" twist, especially for your location. I also had a very good Pac nor barrel several years ago but sold the gun.
Two grooves can be great, but they can also be a fight.
My opinion isnt Science based, it's just an observation of 20 years of BR shooting.

Thank you for your input. What's your opinion on 3 groove benchmark barrels. Also what's your opinion on the shilen ratchet barrels? Thanks Brent

 

[Travelor]

If it really won't shoot well contact Vudoo. I do not believe you have a bad barrel, but it is possible and if so Vudoo should be able to help.


My suspicion is that it is ammo, not the barrel. Get some "high end" ammunition such as Eley 10X or Match, RWS R50, or the expensive Lapua and see if that helps.

 

[squishee]

Mike ( Mr Vudoo) will also tell you they dont shoot suppressed for groups. In fact i think i heard him say they never use suppressors .

 

[Kevin1]

If you’re not happy with the accuracy, call Vudoo…Don’t rebarrel.

Once you get your Vudoo to shoot to your expectations, and you want a longer barrel; sell your Vudoo, buy a new Vudoo with the barrel length you like…..Don’t rebarrel.



BTW have you tried single loading? I say that because my mag was out of spec (Vudoo replaced it) and would cause FTF as well as some bullet deformation. BTW did I mention……Don’t rebarrel?

 

[brentwinkey]

If it really won't shoot well contact Vudoo. I do not believe you have a bad barrel, but it is possible and if so Vudoo should be able to help.


My suspicion is that it is ammo, not the barrel. Get some "high end" ammunition such as Eley 10X or Match, RWS R50, or the expensive Lapua and see if that helps.

I've only ever really ran center-x thru it.

 

[Mistert]

I’m also having the same issues, I did clean out carbon ring and did get rid of fliers, however I’m still not able to shoot unlimited ARA target very well 1500 to 1700 on a good day. Going to hopefully drop my gun off at lapua this spring, and see if ammo could make a difference.

 

[nakoa01]

Vudoo 18" Kukri
MDT ACC Chassis Cut Down

Scope got upgraded to a Tract 4.5-30x56 since this picture.

View attachment 7361041

Love that paint job on the chassis. Let me know if that ever needs a home.

 

[nakoa01]

My best shooting vudoo is a 16.5 kukri. That being said the others are not far behind it. Suppressed or unsuppressed it's been super consistent. Might give vudoo a call. If there is an issue they will find it and correct it. I had a 360 that was uper consistent but not small as I wanted the groups. I cut the tuner off, recrowned, and bedded it. It's a kreiger, hammers now. But it didnt come from vudoo. From now on my vudoo would come from vudoo.

 

[flatland1]

I stopped shooting suppressed last year, after testing two different suppressors on several custom barreled repeaters, with bbls from 22" to 26" in length. I've never had the desire to go with a 16" bbl, so have no experience with anything shorter than 20". But recently read of guys using tuners in combination with suppressors and being able to tune for very good accuracy. For me, it's six of one, half-dozen of the other - there are things I don't like about suppressors, even if I could find a suppressor/tuner combination that shoots as well as un-suppressed. And since the Pro-X tuners on V-22S single shot & V-22 repeater rifles with 22"-25" bbls are nearly as quiet (to the shooter) as shooting suppressed, why bother? For plinking, no real downside to using a suppressor. For match use, hanging a suppressor off the muzzle is just another variable that I don't want to deal with.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I quit shooting suppressed purely due to all the shit falling down in the action when racking my rifle after a stage at matches.

 

[accurate obsession]

Have you ever cleaned your barrel? Get rid of the carbon ring? After about 1500-2000 rounds I started getting flyers, and then I did a cleaning and got rid of the carbon ring. Flyers went away.

This was my experience as well, wish I kept closer round count but got the Vudoo in March and have at least 3 to 4 bricks through it. Started getting first round flyers, not just cold bore, even after rifle would sit between stages. Finally had to do what I consider a more aggressive cleaning and it's back to normal.
What kind of routine cleaning, if any, do you do in between the times you have to remove a carbon ring?
This doesn't really fit the senerio the OP is having with decent groups and bad from whole magazines but it probably fits most of us who shoot a lot of RF.

 

[accurate obsession]

I quit shooting suppressed purely due to all the shit falling down in the action when racking my rifle after a stage at matches.

Exactly! I see people running their suppressor at matches and I get it, you spent the best part of a grand and 10 months to get the damn thing(that's another rant) and it's quiet cool. But RF ammo is nasty and builds up shit in the can fast and with all the variables in the RF game already why add another. I use my can when I have to, too many squirrels and chipmunks in the subdivision.

 

[AirGunShawn]

I'm sure there is a simple answer to this, why aren't you racking your guns muzzle down??
Every gun I own that has a rubber butt plate gets stored muzzle down to prevent dog ears.
You likely don't see it but I do. The top of this NJR is dog eared because it was stored butt down
prior to me saving it. Before you laugh too hard.... it's ammunition is under $15.00 / 500 for top
quality stuff. 0.03 per round and not the .44 cents that Center X costs me. And we put cans on them
with no Govt supervision or cost. This on is .177 but they go up to .50 cal.

 

[littlepod]

I'm sure there is a simple answer to this, why aren't you racking your guns muzzle down??
Every gun I own that has a rubber butt plate gets stored muzzle down to prevent dog ears.
You likely don't see it but I do. The top of this NJR is dog eared because it was stored butt down
prior to me saving it. Before you laugh too hard.... it's ammunition is under $15.00 / 500 for top
quality stuff. 0.03 per round and not the .44 cents that Center X costs me. And we put cans on them
with no Govt supervision or cost. This on is .177 but they go up to .50 cal.

Muzzle down? Photo of how this is done? I wouldn't want to be resting the weight of my rifle on the crown of my muzzle.