Rifle Scopes Wall of Shame

[Tburkes]

Re: Wall of Shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, i suppose if your dumb enough to send out product without it being paid for, then I suppose you will have these problems. Maybe if I get up by Cheney again, I'll try to look Mark up and maybe I can get something for free!</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HotIce</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
+1
They must be really good. All the place where I buy stuff, they force me to spill $$$ before they ship

I honestly do not feel any bad for people shipping stuff without collecting money before, likewise I do not feel bad for people which fall into Nigerian SCAMs.
</div></div>

I've read this whole thread, and the only thing sadder than these scumbags not paying their bill is people somehow throwing blame on Alex for "allowing" it to happen. I've sent lots of TAB GEAR out to customers before payment has been received. So far I've only had a couple of instances of non-payment. The overwhelming majority of our customers appreciate the way we do our business.

I was raised up believing that a hand shake means you'll do what you say, and I try my hardest to do what I say I'll do. I'm well aware how this countries attitude is changing for the worse. It wasn't very long ago that you would never have heard of this type of conduct in the shooting community, but here we are, with members here calling people like Alex and myself dumb asses for treating people the way we want to be treated. Pretty sad state of affairs really.

It looks like I'll have to start my own list of people to be wary of before I send product out without being paid first.

 

[Ted_D]

Re: Wall of Shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tburkes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, i suppose if your dumb enough to send out product without it being paid for, then I suppose you will have these problems. Maybe if I get up by Cheney again, I'll try to look Mark up and maybe I can get something for free!</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HotIce</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
+1
They must be really good. All the place where I buy stuff, they force me to spill $$$ before they ship

I honestly do not feel any bad for people shipping stuff without collecting money before, likewise I do not feel bad for people which fall into Nigerian SCAMs.
</div></div>

I've read this whole thread, and the only thing sadder than these scumbags not paying their bill is people somehow throwing blame on Alex for "allowing" it to happen. I've sent lots of TAB GEAR out to customers before payment has been received. So far I've only had a couple of instances of non-payment. The overwhelming majority of our customers appreciate the way we do our business.

I was raised up believing that a hand shake means you'll do what you say, and I try my hardest to do what I say I'll do. I'm well aware how this countries attitude is changing for the worse. It wasn't very long ago that you would never have heard of this type of conduct in the shooting community, but here we are, with members here calling people like Alex and myself dumb asses for treating people the way we want to be treated. Pretty sad state of affairs really.

It looks like I'll have to start my own list of people to be wary of before I send product out without being paid first. </div></div>

I agree with you 100%. He seems like a great guy and if and when I need something he sell I will deal with him..


We also need a Wall of Shame here but if it was going to happen I guess iot would of been here. Had a man back out of a deal with me and didn't have the balls to speak up and tell me.

Thanks ViperACR! You nutless douche bag! Your no better than these lamers

 

[Mike]

Re: Wall of Shame

Tony,
You and many others here(as vendors and as people) are beyond reproach and last time I checked, you were a grown man and can do what you want. Don't let these asshats get you down. You enjoy incredibly customer loyalty by showing exemplary customer service. Don't alter that recipe as it's shown you great success.

$.02

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Wall of Shame

Id have to agree with Mike on this one in regards to Tony and Alex. I to have been taught that a handshake and a mans word are all you need.

 

[bwanajcj]

Re: Wall of Shame

I bought a pair of Leica trinovids from Alex a couple of years ago, he sent them out to me to make sure they were "as advertised" he is a stand up guy and I would buy from him anytime. These dirt bags on the Wall of shame are looking for people to take advantage of.

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: Wall of Shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tony,
You and many others here(as vendors and as people) are beyond reproach and last time I checked, you were a grown man and can do what you want. <span style="font-weight: bold">Don't let these asshats get you down</span>. You enjoy incredibly customer loyalty by showing exemplary customer service. Don't alter that recipe as it's shown you great success.

$.02 </div></div>

I concur

 

[baypoint]

Re: Wall of Shame

I couldn't decide on a 6-24vm/v or a S&B 5-25 PMII. Alex sent me both to check out (with no payment from me) and said send the one you don't want back and send a check for the one you keep. I try to buy every optic purchase I can from Alex great guy.

 

[eddybo]

Re: Wall of Shame

We all assume that other people will react to a given situation in a manner similar to our own reactions. When someone tells me, "I am sending the product, pay the invoice if you like the product." I know one thing from that reaction. This is an honorable person who if sent a product without prepayment would indeed pay their debt, just as they fully expect you to pay yours.
There are still gentlemen out there doing business this way in the gun subculture because they rarely in the past got screwed. That is probably changing. It is a shame, but this is the entitlement age.

 

[stefan73]

Re: Wall of Shame

Dirt bags!!!
What ever happened to honor, integrity?
I know people make mistakes but fess up to it if you do and make it right!!!!
People are so pathetic these days!!!

 

[Grump]

Re: Wall of Shame

FYI, the federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act applies to debt collectors, not to businesses trying to collect from their own customers.

Truth is a great defense to libel!

 

[stefan73]

Re: Wall of Shame

Tony, sad to say that there are people like this! It used to be that your word was your bond! Not so much anymore for a small but obviously present part of the population. There seems to be a portion who have no shame. Sadly they ruin it for everyone!
I have taken risk sending stuff to people and have in return not recieved payment, but then most of the time I have been paid, of course the stuff was for little amounts of money.

It makes it hard to be the good business man who takes care of his customers in order to earn their trust, loyalty when your customers are screwing you over! Its not like you get this stuff for free either and you have mouths to feed.
Either way what is going on these days sucks!!!
I'll pay first, because I feel that is the correct thing for me to do! If I can't pay right away for a toy then I'll just have to save up for it till I can (or get a loan ).

 

[BobC]

Re: Wall of Shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dirt bags!!!
What ever happened to honor, integrity? </div></div>
They went the same way as taking responsibility for ones actions and working to support ones self. All traded for the ability to call ones self a victim.

 

[3006spokane]

Re: Wall of Shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like the local Spokane boys can now put a face with a name.

</div></div>


HA I live about 1.5 miles away from the listed address for this guy. Might have to go out on a little recon expidition

That listed address is now an apartment complex. Easy enough though.



and shankster and found your source.

probably liquidated his funds through said source.

 

[ChrisF]

Re: Wall of Shame


This spoils it for the rest of US , who pay our bills .

The answer is simple , But a bit inconveint , and you can have to wait longer to get stuff .

Donot accept credit cards

Cash or wait until the bank says the funds are clear .

When I send a wire transfer to the US , it can take mths for it to clear the system , to the Dealer's , I say jsut wait until funds actually , clear , then there is no risk at all involved .

I would say , that all my dealings so far with people in the shooting world have been very good , on the whole the shooters are a very honest brunch .

Later Chris

 

[Derek Myers]

Re: Wall of Shame

Wow what a great place to due business........I'll have to look these guys up and give them a shot at my next scope which will be in a week or so. I love the shake hands and take a man at his word way of doing business.......but I won't do it and that makes me sad.

I am a former operator but now have a family and raise and train horses.....specifically cutting horses. A few years back my wife had a horse and we just bought a new place limited room etc. She "sold" the horse to a family she had known for 20 years. Went to the same church every Sunday etc etc. This lady was to pay same monthly payments(no down payment)my wife did this without my consult.....she hasn't since. 6 months go by no payments received......we send a letter demanding payment. Now at this time the lady repsonds saying she doesn't want the horse because the horse we sold her was not as described.......I guess it took her 6 months to figure this out along with a demand for payment in full letter. She said she had been trying to reach us but didn't know we had moved. Funny because her husband knocked on our door asking if we needed help packing......Ryder truck in the driveway. Wifes parents still lived in same town and went to same church every Sunday never asked them either.

I however in my life missed many Sundays at church by hiding in some 3rd world country observing scum through an optic(mounted on a weapon). I don't do that anymore and still usually miss church.....I have corrupted my wife now so she is home most Sundays too. Anyway my reflex way camo, NV and hi res camera. Tape somebodies life for a week or two and you get leverage. Next step was the baseball bat and front door knock....demand payment plus interest and then whatever they are short invite self into home to begin removing items of value to balance the account.

I realize in America now I would be the one to go to jail..not the criminal.

What we did and what Alex should do is just start filling out paperwork and head to the courthouse with a stack. Since the product came from his town he can file at his county seat. So these lowlifes most of them will have to hop on a plane to show up in court and prove him wrong or send payment prior to hearing to avoid losing by default. They will also have to pay his filing fees and other legal costs. If they choose to no-show they lose by default........in that case Alex can will be granted a judgement. That judgement will allow him to take 50% of offenders gross paychecks until debt is paid. THe amount of judgement will include legal fees and usually interest depending on state laws. If the people don't have jobs or are self employed it gets tougher because then you have to try to attach a lien to their home if one is owned if not chase tax returns etc.

I also think search parties should be arranged to hunt these fools. 50-100 work calls per day. Get up at 3am to use the head...call a number. We should all do it. We don't need to ID ourselves and for legal reasons don't say "we are calling on behalf of......" just say pay up or else.

Also you can do the following.....call and cancel parties utilities, electric, phone, cable etc. Request their car to be towed a number of things. But real names and pics are great....none of these idiots should be allowed to shoot at any range or match ANYWHERE......period.

Derek

 

[Derek Myers]

Re: Wall of Shame

I forgot I don't know if "its legal debt collection" but who cares........if you participate in illegal debt collection you simply get asked to stop on your first or second offense...you don't forfeit your right to collect. Plus in cases like this it's kinda like robbing a drug dealer...........yeah I guess its illegal......but immormal.........no and is the drug dealer going to call the cops?

Happy Hunting-Derek

 

[Short-bus]

Re: Wall of Shame

Derek, I think you have a solid solution for those of us that are a little tighter on funds. Have a new toy you want? Just go out and rob a drug dealer, and you'll have the money you need, and feel good about helping out society as you are doing the deed. lol. Not like they're going to call the police. "The fool over there took my drug money".

Branden

 

[00037]

Re: Wall of Shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dust_Remover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Derek, I think you have a solid solution for those of us that are a little tighter on funds. Have a new toy you want? Just go out and rob a drug dealer, and you'll have the money you need, and feel good about helping out society as you are doing the deed. lol. Not like they're going to call the police. "The fool over there took my drug money".

Branden </div></div>
Problem is, the dealer and everyone above him would want that money back regardless of how insignificant it is to their organization overall. They won't call the police. They'll just take back what's theirs with interest.

 

[Short-bus]

Re: Wall of Shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: modifier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dust_Remover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Derek, I think you have a solid solution for those of us that are a little tighter on funds. Have a new toy you want? Just go out and rob a drug dealer, and you'll have the money you need, and feel good about helping out society as you are doing the deed. lol. Not like they're going to call the police. "The fool over there took my drug money".

Branden </div></div>
Problem is, the dealer and everyone above him would want that money back regardless of how insignificant it is to their organization overall. They won't call the police. They'll just take back what's theirs with interest.

</div></div>

I think you have that backwards (read with sarcasm). They are already taking from society, i'm just talking about stealing it back by taking the only thing they have of any significant value...cash.

Besides that, I always though there should be a drug dealer hunting season.

We're getting a little off topic here...sorry.

Branden

 

[badbot]

Re: Wall of Shame

the sad commentary in this thread is blaming the victim!

IMHO this stems from lawers and goverments 'protecting' the criminal.
calling every moral shortcomming a 'Disease'.
not ever accepting or owning up to your actions.
it has gotten so ingrained that even honest people who will never rip someone off have started moving blame from the evil bastards to the victim by saying he should know better.

NO!
You should know better than to allow this kind of thinking!
Cheating someone is NOT a Disease it is a crime and the responsible party should be HELD responsible.

I apoligise to all the trusting honest hard working businessmen-women for any of the misguided responses to your being robbed, it was uncalled for.

I hope to send busniess your way and I hope that your margins allow you to recover all losses from these dirt bags.

And every time one of us send payment with an order consider it a vote of confidence in your 'way of doing busniess'.

I hope to see the day when trust is honored again.

 

[dbateman]

Re: Wall of Shame

alex sounds like a top bloke I will be buying from him

 

[Blueclawz]

Re: Wall of Shame

Last I heard that dude in KW was headed to a small room with bars far far away.....EYW is the gateway to caribbean and all its activities. My intel may be off - perhaps those in FTL or MIA could update Alex with some insight on the who, what and when...dude certainly had enough money to pay for a $3k scope. Last time I saw him he was buying drinks with bills fresh out of a bank strap.

 

[Derek Myers]

Re: Wall of Shame

Amen to what badbot says. And like Blueclawz we all should do some intel work on these lowlifes and help with the collection process.

On the robbing drug dealers thing.......I have never done it(in the US) to make it clear. If and when I ever did/would it would not be for my personal gain but to replenish the victims in their community who had lived in fear for years in their homes, had their food and medication stolen, children abused......homes burned down etc etc.

The other thing.......is the guys you rob aren't more afraid of you than you are of them.......don't do. Plus don't leave business cards on the coffee table or a map to your home where you wife and children sleep. I recommend having 50 miles from your home to robbery site and if all else fails and you don't leave the folks at the scene with the proper impression and they get sober and brave enough to find you........just plan you being the one collecting interest.

It doesn't matter what corner of the world you are operating in...drug dealers don't train........they can't shoot and they are at their root weak, stupid spineless idiots with no morale code. THATS WHY THEY ARE DRUG DEALERS. They only survive by moving into areas where the native population is poor and hungry and easily intimidated. This is way off topic.

We should however all help Europtics recover what they can. I had no clue anyone still had the fiber to do business on a mans word. Now the only place that I know of has been robbed....no other way to put.

Best Wishes-Derek

 

[dan46n2]

Re: Wall of Shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ceylonc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe he should stop sending out scopes without payment and then he wont be in the hole for a bunch of money?!

Does he not think its easy to change your phone number and move from that address he lists?

A little common sense would save money. He might be a nice guy but he is going to keep taking a beating when assholes abuse his good nature. I think if your dumb enough to go by the policy of " oh everyone is straight laced they will send me my money AFTER they get my products" you are not intelligent and need to stop doing business. You will be broke quick. </div></div>

I think his success in a very competitive business kind of blows your theory to shit.

</div></div>

BIG +1

Alex is a class guy & you make him sound "naive" for trying to run his business using an honor system for conducting transactions. I agree that there are scumbags out there who can and will rip off a vendor who chooses to actually TRUST his clientelle to deal honestly & professionally. However, the vast majority of those passionate about optics & shooting would never dream of being dishonest with an online vendor. Alex's payment policy & outstanding servicing have brought a lot of new shooters to our sport/passion. Instead of calling his business practices stupid or a one way ticket to bankruptcy, maybe you should just thank him for being an honest guy who gives an average guy like me the opportunity to use the best equipment avaliable... He's a huge asset to the shooting community & a great guy as well. </div></div>

I never attacked him to say he is a bad person. I said his business method is just not a smart one. I would never do a construction job and say "hey, you pay me when you decide you like it, or I will just come rip it up for you".

That is not the way to do it. Does SWFA send out product without getting paid? No, and they seem to be doing very well.

It blows my theory to shit huh? Seems like others are agreeing that its not a smart move on his part.... for his business. He might be a top notch guy but in the business realm its not good practice. If you owned your own company you would see that very clearly. Again, not degrading him as a person. Just dont see eye to eye on why he is sending out product before collecting what is owed to him. Thats a red flag for shitbags to come and take advantage of your good nature. Not everyone in this world is trust worthy.

But I still think it would be funny to call all these dirt bags and give them hell. </div></div>

I agree, I don't see how sending out scopes before securing payment is a good business practice. Nice, yeah, but not the best way to do business IMO.

 

[Fx1]

Re: Wall of Shame

Im not trying to bad mouth anyone here but there is a pretty simple fact you are missing out here.

In one hand Eurooptics have been ripped off by a few customers and thats a shame. i have never heard of anyone sending an item before payment without a credit agreement here in the UK. it amounts to stupidity imo.

But there is one simple fact you guys are missing here.

S&B PMII 5-25x Costs $3500 from Euro optics.

S&B PMII from York Guns in UK costs £2075

This is a £225 premium, Also our price includes 17.5% VAT which is £310 to the Tax man. this is a total of £535 above the UK price. York Guns is NOT a cheap shop either!

Am i correct in thinking there is no Sales TAX in the USA in most states or 8% in some?

the USD is strong and the GBP is weak which makes things worse for the UK.

Now in one hand people are ripping off Euro optics.

and in the other Eurooptics are possibly ripping off everyone else.

For something to be more expensive in the USA than the UK this is normally VERY rare indeed.

Accuracy International Sniper rifles are cheaper in the USA than the UK and they are made here!!!!

Heck you could import S&B scope from the UK and get the VAT taken off for international sale and own one for $2701 + shipping!!!!

he is making a killing on these scopes and the margin his getting he can afford to lose a few.

 

[Arevalosocom]

Re: Wall of Shame

Wow.

 

[dan46n2]

Re: Wall of Shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fx1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im not trying to bad mouth anyone here but there is a pretty simple fact you are missing out here.

In one hand Eurooptics have been ripped off by a few customers and thats a shame. i have never heard of anyone sending an item before payment without a credit agreement here in the UK. it amounts to stupidity imo.

But there is one simple fact you guys are missing here.

S&B PMII 5-25x Costs $3500 from Euro optics.

S&B PMII from York Guns in UK costs £2075

This is a £225 premium, Also our price includes 17.5% VAT which is £310 to the Tax man. this is a total of £535 above the UK price. York Guns is NOT a cheap shop either!

Am i correct in thinking there is no Sales TAX in the USA in most states or 8% in some?

the USD is strong and the GBP is weak which makes things worse for the UK.

Now in one hand people are ripping off Euro optics.

and in the other Eurooptics are possibly ripping off everyone else.

For something to be more expensive in the USA than the UK this is normally VERY rare indeed.

Accuracy International Sniper rifles are cheaper in the USA than the UK and they are made here!!!!

Heck you could import S&B scope from the UK and get the VAT taken off for international sale and own one for $2701 + shipping!!!!

he is making a killing on these scopes and the margin his getting he can afford to lose a few.

</div></div>

Are you sure they charge $3500, I bought my PMII around $2850 here in the States new from a dealer about 2 years ago. I just got a quote for another one a few months ago for about the same price (actually a few hundred more). If they are charging that much I doubt they'd sell that many unless no one shops around anymore.

 

[Fx1]

Re: Wall of Shame

$3300 to $3500 i found on their website.

2 years ago the currency was in a different place the euro is strong now

 

[jasonk]

Re: Wall of Shame

Don't confuse the MAP (minimum advertised price) that is set by S&B and what you can actually buy them for if you call Alex. I know NO ONE that has ever paid $3500 for an S&B scope.

 

[sawhornsoff]

Re: Wall of Shame

+1 JasonK
The current US S&B price lists the 5-25 for $3200. That is what he has it listed for.

The dealers are required by S&B to list at this minimum advertised price.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Wall of Shame

FX1 - Sorry to pick up a fellow Brit....but I think you're a little off track on this one

A S&B PMII 4-16x50 will set you back around £1.5K - £2K in the UK right now depending on spec including UK VAT. You need to be sure you are comparing like with like.

Do a straight conversion on today's £/$ exchange rate and that gives you a US$ price between $2,285 and $3,045

Using UK VAT as part of your calculation to say Euro Optics would have extra "wiggle room" on their price is irrelevant.

OK, UK dealers do not pay VAT on stock purchases from the German manufacturer (EU companies, B2B trading) but have to charge 17.5% VAT to customers as opposed to possible lower US Sales Taxes BUT it seems fair to expect that US dealers will also have incurred additional shipping costs over movement inside Europe plus possibly import duties?

It also seems reasonable to assume US dealers transactions with S&B would be based on Euro, not £. I'd expect any business trading cross-currency (if they are sensible) to include an exchange rate buffer in their price calcs (the $ has fluctuated against the € around €0.14/18.66% in the period since Jan '09).

I am sure that the end user price of any stock is directly correlated to the original buy price.

Also many companies require distributors/dealers to abide by MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) policies on advertised prices.

My local dealer ALWAYS gives a bit extra off for good customers.

Euro Optics prices don't seem excessive to me.

I recently bought an NXS off Alex and, even after transport costs and UK Customs/VAT, it was still cheaper (and quicker) than buying in the UK.

It's just a case of "some you win, some you lose" and in this case it may just be cheap (and quicker) to buy S&B in Europe right now?

It's about shopping around......and don't be too surprised if the best deals are just down your street!

And in closing...as Tony says:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tburkes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the only thing sadder than these scumbags not paying their bill is people somehow throwing blame on Alex .</div></div>

 

[slg888]

Re: Wall of Shame

Euro optics gave me the best price anywhere.

 

[Fx1]

Re: Wall of Shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FX1 - Sorry to pick up a fellow Brit....but I think you're a little off track on this one

A S&B PMII 4-16x50 will set you back around £1.5K - £2K in the UK right now depending on spec including UK VAT. You need to be sure you are comparing like with like.

Do a straight conversion on today's £/$ exchange rate and that gives you a US$ price between $2,285 and $3,045

Using UK VAT as part of your calculation to say Euro Optics would have extra "wiggle room" on their price is irrelevant.

OK, UK dealers do not pay VAT on stock purchases from the German manufacturer (EU companies, B2B trading) but have to charge 17.5% VAT to customers as opposed to possible lower US Sales Taxes BUT it seems fair to expect that US dealers will also have incurred additional shipping costs over movement inside Europe plus possibly import duties?

It also seems reasonable to assume US dealers transactions with S&B would be based on Euro, not £. I'd expect any business trading cross-currency (if they are sensible) to include an exchange rate buffer in their price calcs (the $ has fluctuated against the € around €0.14/18.66% in the period since Jan '09).

I am sure that the end user price of any stock is directly correlated to the original buy price.

Also many companies require distributors/dealers to abide by MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) policies on advertised prices.

My local dealer ALWAYS gives a bit extra off for good customers.

Euro Optics prices don't seem excessive to me.

I recently bought an NXS off Alex and, even after transport costs and UK Customs/VAT, it was still cheaper (and quicker) than buying in the UK.

It's just a case of "some you win, some you lose" and in this case it may just be cheap (and quicker) to buy S&B in Europe right now?

It's about shopping around......and don't be too surprised if the best deals are just down your street!

And in closing...as Tony says:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tburkes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the only thing sadder than these scumbags not paying their bill is people somehow throwing blame on Alex .</div></div> </div></div>

Well im sorry but your wrong. There is no VAT on international sales. only domestic. There is no VAT in USA this is why everything is cheaper in America. America would pay a VAT free price from Germany.

Also there is no legal way to force pricing on any item for sale in the UK, they can only recommend called RRP.

Now it costs nothing to ship in bulk to America. since S&B ship tons of scopes to the US for the Army its hardly going to be a huge increase.

Not sure on US import costs.

 

[asbestosglove]

Re: Wall of Shame

Have made nearly 10K in purchases from Alex and consider him the "go to guy" on NF and Sako products. His trust in me as a customer means I don't feel the need to look anywhere else for an item he carries. I don't consider the loyalty his business practices generate to be naivete. Twenty-one names out of the hundreds of customers Alex deals with is, while still significant, a small number as a percentage of his trade. To paraphrase what many have expressed earlier in this thread, "One expects high-end integrity from purchasers of high-end optics". AG

 

[stefan73]

Re: Wall of Shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BadBot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the sad commentary in this thread is blaming the victim!

IMHO this stems from lawers and goverments 'protecting' the criminal.
calling every moral shortcomming a 'Disease'.
not ever accepting or owning up to your actions.
it has gotten so ingrained that even honest people who will never rip someone off have started moving blame from the evil bastards to the victim by saying he should know better.

NO!
You should know better than to allow this kind of thinking!
Cheating someone is NOT a Disease it is a crime and the responsible party should be HELD responsible.

I apoligise to all the trusting honest hard working businessmen-women for any of the misguided responses to your being robbed, it was uncalled for.

I hope to send busniess your way and I hope that your margins allow you to recover all losses from these dirt bags.

And every time one of us send payment with an order consider it a vote of confidence in your 'way of doing busniess'.

I hope to see the day when trust is honored again. </div></div>

With the way children are being raised today in the "entitlement" society I believe things will just get worse!!!
People have forgotten that they are only entitled to what they earn/work for.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Wall of Shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fx1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FX1 - Sorry to pick up a fellow Brit....but I think you're a little off track on this one

A S&B PMII 4-16x50 will set you back around £1.5K - £2K in the UK right now depending on spec including UK VAT. You need to be sure you are comparing like with like.

Do a straight conversion on today's £/$ exchange rate and that gives you a US$ price between $2,285 and $3,045

Using UK VAT as part of your calculation to say Euro Optics would have extra "wiggle room" on their price is irrelevant.

OK, <span style="color: #FF0000">UK dealers do not pay VAT on stock purchases from the German manufacturer (EU companies, B2B trading) but have to charge 17.5% VAT to customers as opposed to possible lower US Sales </span>Taxes BUT it seems fair to expect that US dealers will also have incurred additional shipping costs over movement inside Europe plus possibly import duties?

It also seems reasonable to assume US dealers transactions with S&B would be based on Euro, not £. I'd expect any business trading cross-currency (if they are sensible) to include an exchange rate buffer in their price calcs (the $ has fluctuated against the € around €0.14/18.66% in the period since Jan '09).

I am sure that the end user price of any stock is directly correlated to the original buy price.

Also many companies require distributors/dealers to abide by MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) policies on advertised prices.

My local dealer ALWAYS gives a bit extra off for good customers.

Euro Optics prices don't seem excessive to me.

I recently bought an NXS off Alex and, even after transport costs and UK Customs/VAT, it was still cheaper (and quicker) than buying in the UK.

It's just a case of "some you win, some you lose" and in this case it may just be cheap (and quicker) to buy S&B in Europe right now?

It's about shopping around......and don't be too surprised if the best deals are just down your street!

And in closing...as Tony says:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tburkes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the only thing sadder than these scumbags not paying their bill is people somehow throwing blame on Alex .</div></div> </div></div>

Well im sorry but your wrong. There is no VAT on international sales. only domestic. There is no VAT in USA this is why everything is cheaper in America. America would pay a VAT free price from Germany.

Also there is no legal way to force pricing on any item for sale in the UK, they can only recommend called RRP.

Now it costs nothing to ship in bulk to America. since S&B ship tons of scopes to the US for the Army its hardly going to be a huge increase.

Not sure on US import costs. </div></div>

Read the bit highlighted in red......

Private customers buying retail in the EU pay VAT. The VAT can be recalimed if you can prove you are a non-EU resident and the goods are for export. Within the EU only B2B sales are VAT exempt (on proof of a VAT registration number).

If you've ever bought anything from companies like Brownells you will know that local US Sales Tax is NOT applied to export shipments (or, I believe, to out-of-state US domestic shipments?).

Did you ever call Alex and ask about pricing....or are you just working on the advertised online pricing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fx1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Now it costs nothing to ship in bulk to America. since S&B ship tons of scopes to the US for the Army its hardly going to be a huge increase.</div></div>

I don't know how or if S&B in Germany ship either their civilian dealer, LE or military stocks or contract fulfilment consignments to their subsidiary in the US - do you?

Air freight is paid for by volume, not weight. I'm not sure anyone would send optics by sea - if you've ever send anything electrical or optical by sea you'd understand why not! I can't see the US Dept of Defense or military happily subsidising the costs of dealer/civilian imports?

And do some homework on the realities of manufacturer/distributor/dealer contracts, the use of MAP's and various other aspects of controlling international distribution and pricing that are still within EU competition law.

 

[Sespe]

Re: Wall of Shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
With the way children are being raised today in the "entitlement" society I believe things will just get worse!!!
People have forgotten that they are only entitled to what they earn/work for. </div></div>

Saw a neat bumper sticker recently: "You are not entitled to what I have earned"

I don't need a high-end optic right now, but when I do, I know where to go...

 

[stefan73]

Re: Wall of Shame

Ventura. They used to have some nice gunshows here when I was a kid!
I grew up in Ojai.

 

[KYS]

Re: Wall of Shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe he should stop sending out scopes without payment and then he wont be in the hole for a bunch of money?!

Does he not think its easy to change your phone number and move from that address he lists?

A little common sense would save money. He might be a nice guy but he is going to keep taking a beating when assholes abuse his good nature. I think if your dumb enough to go by the policy of " oh everyone is straight laced they will send me my money AFTER they get my products" you are not intelligent and need to stop doing business. You will be broke quick. </div></div>

I think his success in a very competitive business kind of blows your theory to shit.

</div></div>

If it blows my theory to shit then why does he need a wall of shame to help track down the people who have burned him? Would you sell your rifle on here, send me the rifle BEFORE I sent you payment? I dont think so....

You have to know when to say enough is enough and require payment before sending out product.

I never said he was a bad person, I just dont agree with his business practices. Thats all.