Warrant? We don’t need no stinking warrant..

[kwityurbeachn]

Not really sure how destroying an employees property fits in the topic......but anywho.....I did watch the video and I propose that in the end, as expected....ASGH....and based upon the direction this thread has taken, I leave members with this brutal confrontation.......I could watch this all day...

Lol. Was trying to tie in that bondsmen have skin in the game. When it comes to my stuff I am the law. Is unbelievable this is an issue here being the things most sh members would travel to protect a big screen tv. Lol

 

[fdkay]

I’ll state it once again.
It was the guys BROTHERS house they were invading.

it’s a flat out law suite against the bounty hunters and charges should be filed. At minimum assault with a deadly weapon.

They had ZERO authority to enter whatever house they feel like.

Brother’s house once again. Not the bail jumpers.

Agreed, I never agued that the entry into the third parties home waas legal.
The only issue is if the dirtbag had used his brothers address as an official residence.
They won't have to make any more mortgage payments that's for sure.

 

[fdkay]

I still think entering someone's home, especially with guns, is presumptively unlawful/unreasonable unless it can be shown what the lawful basis for entry is.

I still have not seen articulation of exactly what the legal basis for entry was in this case, so, in my mind, it is still presumptively unlawful until that happens.

There has been no articulation that there was a good faith basis to believe that the third party's home was the home of the person the bounty hunters were searching. It actually seems like they knew it was not his home which further strains the ways they may try to justify entering the home lawfully.

There apparently wasn't any, so they have hit the lotto.

 

[pmclaine]

A default warrant is not a search warrant..........

 

[BLEE]

In Louisiana, those would be deceased bounty hunters. An entry, without a defined, judge issued warrant, is a death sentence.

 

[Tater Salad]

If everything was on the up and up I highly doubt the officer would have shown up at a later hour and apologized the way he did. Also stating that "Maybe its a lack of training." Just my 2 cents, which is probably worth half that.

 

[Flyingbullseye]

If everything was on the up and up I highly doubt the officer would have shown up at a later hour and apologized the way he did. Also stating that "Maybe its a lack of training." Just my 2 cents, which is probably worth half that.

That officer might was well just showed up with a check stating it the way he did. This whole thing will have the lawyers enjoying a field day.

 

[tseaha]

When an individual signs a bond contract, they sign away their right to”not be kidnapped.” The bond agent can tie the perp up and throw him/her in the trunk of a car and transport him/her back to the jurisdiction from which him/her absconded. The bond agent is not an agent of the state. They are private citizens. Breaking into the brother’s home is at minimum an “unlawful entry” and could be prosecuted. Some countries and states do not allow “kidnapping”. A bond agent tracked a “skip” to Canada and threw a bag over him, threw him in the trunk and drove the skip back to Virginia. Canada issued a kidnapping warrant for the bond agent, extradited the bond agent to Canada and put him on trial. He got 3 years. The bond agents will frequently notify the local cops that they are going to snatch up a skip so there isn’t an inadvertent conflict with the local authorities. Cheers

 

[Marinevet1]

Come to my house at anytime I am asleep, beat on my door and tell me you will be kicking it in..........just look to the left, and up......I will be firing from the top of the stair case.............

 

[7.62willdo]

You cannot sign away your rights, so your good friend wants to know what it’s like to kill someone and you want to die, can you sign a paper saying it’s okay for your friend to kill you, no. And you can’t sign a paper saying it’s ok to kidnap you either.....

 

[tseaha]

No problema. You think what you want to think. Look up the law in your state. You might be surprised.

 

[fdkay]

You cannot sign away your rights, so your good friend wants to know what it’s like to kill someone and you want to die, can you sign a paper saying it’s okay for your friend to kill you, no. And you can’t sign a paper saying it’s ok to kidnap you either.....

Really?
You have no clue.
Here is a bond application, try reading the bond conditions there Perry Mason.
I bring your attention to paragraph 2, let alone the later paragraphs that speak to tracking devices.
I'm guessing you didn't pass the BAR exam.

 

[BullGear]

so, your position is that there are no circumstances where a "bond agent" could be found to have acted as an agent of the state?

Wouldn't they have to be sworn in? If so, then they would not be acting as a bond agent.

 

[theLBC]

it would be funny if some citizens did the same to the fucking scum bounty hunters.

nothing against non-scum bounty hunters.

 

[tseaha]

fdkay,
You are correct and I passed the bar exam too many years ago. I Worked for Harlon Carter at the largest Civil Rights organization in the USA... The NRA. No Marcus. I’m not saying that. The bond agent’s authority stems from state law and the civil contract with the perp. I don’t know every state law in the US. There might be a state law that makes the bond agent an agent of the state as well as an agent of the insurance company. Cheers

 

[fdkay]

fdkay,
You are correct and I passed the bar exam too many years ago. I Worked for Harlon Carter at the largest Civil Rights organization in the USA... The NRA. No Marcus. I’m not saying that. The bond agent’s authority stems from state law and the civil contract with the perp. I don’t know every state law in the US. There might be a state law that makes the bond agent an agent of the state as well as an agent of the insurance company. Cheers

My BAR exam comment was for the internet lawyers that have made definitive statements such as "you can't sign away your rights" etc...
They are less informed than jailhouse lawyers.
At least those have experience

 

[tseaha]

The “scum bounty hunters” used to provide a valuable service to the justice system. Rather than have the accused rot in jail while awaiting trial, a bond guaranteeing the accused’s appearance at trial would be set. If the accused couldn’t come up with the required bond, the accused contacted with an insurance company to post his bond. Usually for a 10% nonrefundable fee. But the accused had to sign a contract that if he didn’t appear as required by the court, the insurance company could send out its agents to find him and return him to the jurisdiction of the court to protect the money put up guaranteeing the accused’s appearance. The system worked pretty well. Now the Soros backed District Attorneys want to do away with the bail system. Just release the accused criminals with no guaranteeing they’d ever come back. Think revolving door at the jail. Most law enforcement agencies have their hands full chasing criminals committing current crimes. If they had to chase every accused who failed to appear at the appointed time for court, the law enforcement agencies wouldn’t have time to respond to perps climbing through your window. Enter the bond agent, who is tracking down the skips. In a way the bond agents are “agents of the state” empowered the the civil contract and state law, but they don’t wear uniforms and aren’t paid with tax dollars. Cheers

 

[tseaha]

empowered by the civil contract and state law

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

If the bail jumper punches Dogg the bounty hunter in the face and runs off is he going to be charged with resisting arrest?

 

[Unknown]

He had an active warrant, the issue here are several. It was a Pa warrant in NY. The folks attempting to execute the arrest warrant were bounty hunters.
The local PD was standing by, not directly involved.

Interstate warrants are even more difficult to confirm than local ones where dispatch can usually confirm with just a phone call. On the interstate warrants, we even needed to find out if the state issuing the warrant would even extradite if we did snag their guy.

I know local PD didn't enter the house, that they just stood by outside. I feel badly for the officers that got dispatched to stand by by their dispatch center, as they will get dragged through the muck just as if they took it upon their own initiative to participate.

 

[fdkay]

Interstate warrants are even more difficult to confirm than local ones where dispatch can usually confirm with just a phone call. On the interstate warrants, we even needed to find out if the state issuing the warrant would even extradite if we did snag their guy.

I know local PD didn't enter the house, that they just stood by outside. I feel badly for the officers that got dispatched to stand by by their dispatch center, as they will get dragged through the muck just as if they took it upon their own initiative to participate.

I know how it works.
However, the bounty hunters would have had him in custody and transported. (Extradited)

 

[tseaha]

Darn,
He’s not being arrested by a law enforcement office. The bond agent works for the insurance company. But usually under the terms of the bond agreement the bond agent is entitled to use”reasonable force” to return the accused/skip to the jurisdiction from whence he fled. If the skip offers violence to the bond agent to avoid capture, the bond agent can defend himself with reasonable force. Cheers.

 

[myronman3]

Well, my brother wouldn't, but for arguments sake, if he DID have a warrant, I would invite them in to pick him up.

not what i asked you.

i asked you, if your brother had a warrent, and they came to your house and did the same shit to you and your wife/gf...would you still be cool with it? it’s a simple question...and so far, you are dodging it.

we all know the answer.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

So he's not going to be charged with resisting arrest?

Darn,
He’s not being arrested by a law enforcement office. The bond agent works for the insurance company. But usually under the terms of the bond agreement the bond agent is entitled to use”reasonable force” to return the accused/skip to the jurisdiction from whence he fled. If the skip offers violence to the bond agent to avoid capture, the bond agent can defend himself with reasonable force. Cheers.

I will assume that what you wrote is the same for any altercation between two people.
Punch a cop in the face and run away. He will be charged with resisting arrest. What's the difference? One has the authority to arrest and one does not.

 

[tseaha]

Punching someone in the face absent the right of self defense is what’s known as common law simple assault. Usually a misdemeanor punishable by less than one year in jail.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

I totally agree. But punch the cop trying to arrest and the charge is added.
Punch the bounty hunter and you get the assault charge if that bounty hunter can provide evidence that it happened and the DA decides to charge the jumper.

Punching someone in the face absent the right of self defense is what’s known as common law simple assault. Usually a misdemeanor punishable by less than one year in jail.

 

[tseaha]

True.

 

[tseaha]

Most bond agents I know wouldn’t press charges against a skip if the skip punched them in the face. The bond agent would just kick the crap out of the skip and call it even. Then they don’t have to go to court without being paid. Very practical, really.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

So they don't have the authority to arrest. You may use that term but that's not what it is.
The bounty hunter can detain the jumper because they have a contract.

 

[tseaha]

Yep. It’s all in the contract. Usually the skip’s family has had to pledge the family home or farm as collateral to indemnify the insurance company in the event that the accused didn’t show up in court. So when the bond agent captures the skip, the agent is actually helping the skip’s family by saving the family’s home from forfeiture. The skip knows that his selfish failure to appear jeopardizes his family’s home but doesn’t care.

 

[fdkay]

not what i asked you.

i asked you, if your brother had a warrent, and they came to your house and did the same shit to you and your wife/gf...would you still be cool with it? it’s a simple question...and so far, you are dodging it.

we all know the answer.

Not fucking dodging it. I answered it.
When they knocked on the door, I would let them in to arrest him. The real answer is I wouldn't be harboring a fucking fugitive in the first place.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

And a law enforcement officer can "arrest" anyone with an outstanding warrant. A bail bondsman can't.
What say you @fdkay ?

 

[fdkay]

And a law enforcement officer can "arrest" anyone with an outstanding warrant. A bail bondsman can't.
What say you @fdkay ?

A bond agent can typically only arrest on a warrant they are contracted for.
Some states are more lenient than others.

Can A Bail Agent Legally Make An Arrest

If a defendant fails to appear in court, the bail bondsman is allowed to bring the fugitive to the courthouse. Not only may they bring them to the proper authorities, but they have the right to pursue the fugitive into any dwelling to make the arrest.

www.aboutbail.com

In regards to peace officers, they will not arrest on a warrant from another state if there is no extradition authorized.
For example, new York would not extradite someone from California for a simple theft of property. They likely wouldn't even extradite from a neighboring state unless the value was quite high.

 

[fdkay]

So they don't have the authority to arrest. You may use that term but that's not what it is.
The bounty hunter can detain the jumper because they have a contract.

A detention is an arrest. Your freedom to move at will is hindered.
While you can say it is not arrest, and you can technically be correct, detention and arrest are ALMOST interchangeable. Also there is no time limit associated with a bond agent taking you before a magistrate and you are typically authorized to cross state lines.

 

[fdkay]

Can Recovery Agents Arrest People? - All-Pro Bail Bonds

Can Recovery Agents Arrest People? Yes What Recovery Agents Do If someone skips bail and misses a court date, the defendant and the bail agency may face what’s called a summary judgment which means a warrant may be placed by the court for the defendant and if not returned to court or jail the...

www.allprobailbond.com

 

[myronman3]

Not fucking dodging it. I answered it.
When they knocked on the door, I would let them in to arrest him. The real answer is I wouldn't be harboring a fucking fugitive in the first place.

no, no you didnt.

was the brother there? seems to me like you are changing the scenario to suit your prior statement. you’ve been eating onions, and everyone knows it.

 

[fdkay]

no, no you didnt.

was the brother there? seems to me like you are changing the scenario to suit your prior statement. you’ve been eating onions, and everyone knows it.

Again. You lie.
You asked if my brother had a warrant, what would I do if they showed up.
That implies my brother was in my home, which he wouldn't have been, because I wouldn't harbor a fugitive.
You lie by insinuating that I condone the behavior of the bond agents. On multiple posts, I have plainly said I do not.
I originally only pointed out that the object of the search DID in fact have a warrant.
The story was misleading and the title of the thread is misleading.
I made no statement regarding the way they conducted their business and I attempted to educate on how bounty hunters may operate.
Take your faux "I'm offended" bullshit elsewhere.

 

[myronman3]

i lie? no. any 3rd grader can comprehend what i typed. you either refuse to, or cant.

either way, i say that makes you a waste of anyone’s time.

so let’s say, just for fun, that YOUR brother has a warrent out. and bounty hunters come to YOUR house, and pull this shit on YOU.

you still cool with it?

not what i asked you.

i asked you, if your brother had a warrent, and they came to your house and did the same shit to you and your wife/gf...would you still be cool with it? it’s a simple question...and so far, you are dodging it.

we all know the answer.

no, no you didnt.

was the brother there? seems to me like you are changing the scenario to suit your prior statement. you’ve been eating onions, and everyone knows it.

and you’re the liar. attempting to put words in my mouth that were never there. there are all 3 of my responses...and yet you are trying to twist and wiggle. you’ve painted yourself into a corner with your bullshit.

 

[BullGear]

This has got to be one of those threads. No one can read and all they want is their point to be the valid reason in the discussion.

 

[myronman3]

 

[fdkay]

View attachment 7573507

Living rent free in your piss ant head

 

[Unknown]

I know how it works.
However, the bounty hunters would have had him in custody and transported. (Extradited)

I haven't worked much with bounty hunters so I really aren't in a position to discuss the manner in which they are allowed to arrest, detain, transport people out on bail. I'm fine with what you are saying about bail bondsmen. My experience is only on the LE side of things.

If a bail bondsman snags a bail jumper in one state, can they transport the bail jumper across state lines back to the state in which their charges originate without any further court appearances, or are there other legal hurdles the bail bondsmen need to take before transporting the bail jumper between states?

 

[myronman3]

Living rent free in your piss ant head

you’ve dodged, twisted, evaded. and have been quite ugly whilst doing so. you aint living rent free, what you’’ve done is exposed yourself as a potato head and a disrespectful turd. ifn you want to call that living rent free, you go right on ahead.

it was a simple question, and you are afraid to answer it without changing the scenario. your responses hurt your reputation, not mine.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

A detention is an arrest. Your freedom to move at will is hindered.
While you can say it is not arrest, and you can technically be correct, detention and arrest are ALMOST interchangeable. Also there is no time limit associated with a bond agent taking you before a magistrate and you are typically authorized to cross state lines.

Are you in law enforcement? "A detention is an arrest"? Surely you jest?
Although I like how you tap dance the line with the "technically" and "almost".
They do Not have authority to arrest. You just can't get the words out that you're wrong.
As stated... Beat the shit out of bail bondsman and can't be charged with resisting...... Wait for it..... ARREST. Bondsman can't arrest anyone with an outstanding warrant like a law enforcement officer can. Bail bondsman can only deal with the person contracted with.

 

[Anb618]

One of the only positive attributes of living and working in Illinois LE: no bounty-hunters. Not only that, but out-of-state bounty hunters have no authority or legal shielding. Even if they had legal justification to enter the brother’s home (which they clearly didn’t) this would be a straight up Home Invasion, and they’d get to enjoy some Bubba-time of their own.

Not for long though. Remember, it’s still Illinois...so they’d parole in ~6 months.

 

[myronman3]

^ a home invasion, sanctioned by the police, no less. i mean when they are standing there, watching, lending their presence to the folks committing the crime, i call that sanctioning.

the bounty hunters should go to jail for this. and the folks responsible at the PD needs to pay with their job. whoever is responsible for this shit show, their head needs to roll. and the pd needs to be sued so they are movitivated to ensure this doesnt happen again.

 

[fdkay]

Are you in law enforcement? "A detention is an arrest"? Surely you jest?
Although I like how you tap dance the line with the "technically" and "almost".
They do Not have authority to arrest. You just can't get the words out that you're wrong.
As stated... Beat the shit out of bail bondsman and can't be charged with resisting...... Wait for it..... ARREST. Bondsman can't arrest anyone with an outstanding warrant like a law enforcement officer can. Bail bondsman can only deal with the person contracted with.

Any citizen can make an arrest for a felony or breach of peace committed in their view. It is called a citizens arrest. So Yes a bond enforcement agent CAN arrest.
If someone "detains" and you do not believe you are free to leave, you are arrested. You can be temporarily detained during an investigation, it is not an arrest as long as it is temporary. There is a fine line, as a uniformed officer has an air of authority.

This is a more complicated than would seem.
A detention is technically not an arrest. If you put cuffs on someone and put them in the back of a car, is that a detention? Most would say that is an arrest, but it depends on the circumstances.
When a bond agent puts cuffs on someone and places them in the back of a car for transport to jail, is that a detention? According to you it is and you are technically correct. However, they are not temporarily detained, they are going to jail. remember, they may not be turning that person over to local authorities, they are going to transport them to the county jail where the bond was set, which could be hours away. Of course, it could be in the same town, but they are going to take them to the county jail, not turn them over to the municipal police (likely).

So, you can call it a detention if it makes you feel like you've won. By all means. But ask most people this: if someone places you in handcuffs on an outstanding warrant and takes you to jail, have you been arrested?

 

[nexusfire]

Yeah my rules if you want to use my stuff. Obviously you have no idea what its like to work in the hoods. Im looking out for those guys too. If my stuff is stolen the tech is out of work till it is replaced. If it is a contractor he might lose 5k+ per week. Plus he has to pay for the stuff stolen. A fusion splicer is 10k, ribbon splicer is 15k and the otdr is 10 to 20k. One tech can have carry all of that and then some with hand tools that always run 1k a piece. Im sorry if you are offended but that is no easy pill to swallow. Staying in business is more important than a 200 dollar window. Imagine an ammo manufacturer employee has an expensive part stolen out of his pov that shuts the whole plant down for a month. You'd definately wished he had a boss keeping up with their shit.

We also do not allow equipment to be left in trucks over night. We have company trucks but we are also self insured for the first million dollars. Insurance is no excuse for being irresponsible.

 

[fdkay]

you’ve dodged, twisted, evaded. and have been quite ugly whilst doing so. you aint living rent free, what you’’ve done is exposed yourself as a potato head and a disrespectful turd. ifn you want to call that living rent free, you go right on ahead.

it was a simple question, and you are afraid to answer it without changing the scenario. your responses hurt your reputation, not mine.

No. I answered your question several times, which was hypothetical and would never happen. I've answered it several times and you choose to fabricate and twist what I said.
My responses to you were a direct reflection of the way you addressed me.
I'll take it a bit slower, as you seem to have trouble keeping up.
1. I would not harbor a fugitive, so it wouldn't happen.
2. My brother would never commit a crime other than an occasional moving violation.
3. If someone happened to be in my house and bail enforcement agents showed up andvtha person did have an outstanding warrant, I would let them in.
4. You are assuming that the video shown in the report is the entire video.
5. They likely DID NOT have authority to enter the home. I say likely because we do not know if that was in fact a residence listed by the bail jumper or not, and I have no idea what NY state law is in regards to bond enforcement.
6. I have stated several times that I do not condone behaviour and that the victims here are going to find favorable results in civil court.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Talk about bullshit and double talking.
I sure hope that you are not in law enforcement. If you can't answer this simple question without double talking bullshit skirting the truth God help the people that have to deal with you.

Any citizen can make an arrest for a felony or breach of peace committed in their view. It is called a citizens arrest. So Yes a bond enforcement agent CAN arrest.
If someone "detains" and you do not believe you are free to leave, you are arrested. You can be temporarily detained during an investigation, it is not an arrest as long as it is temporary. There is a fine line, as a uniformed officer has an air of authority.

This is a more complicated than would seem.
A detention is technically not an arrest. If you put cuffs on someone and put them in the back of a car, is that a detention? Most would say that is an arrest, but it depends on the circumstances.
When a bond agent puts cuffs on someone and places them in the back of a car for transport to jail, is that a detention? According to you it is and you are technically correct. However, they are not temporarily detained, they are going to jail. remember, they may not be turning that person over to local authorities, they are going to transport them to the county jail where the bond was set, which could be hours away. Of course, it could be in the same town, but they are going to take them to the county jail, not turn them over to the municipal police (likely).

So, you can call it a detention if it makes you feel like you've won. By all means. But ask most people this: if someone places you in handcuffs on an outstanding warrant and takes you to jail, have you been arrested?

Citizens arrest is just you acting stoopid. You know that is not what we're discussing.
Awe nevermind, you must be the alter ego of chode.

Please do give the answer to the question of whether you are in LE though.