Was told blue printing/truing isn't all that good?

[Matt_3479]

Was going set some money aside to build a rifle off a defiance action and some to build up a current rifle off a Remington 700 action. The rifle shoots so well now was hoping to get a new barrel with a faster twist, swap triggers, either bed it in current stock or get a new stock and bed it then then of course blueprint it. But was speaking with a real good gunsmith in my neck of the woods and he doesn't recommend blue printing and truing an action like a Remington.

He was saying even blue printing a Remington there is still going be a little slop in everything and that it generally won't be truly square and for the money spent it would be better to just buy a stiller or something like surgeon, defiance, bat action! Now I know a Remington isn't the quality of a custom action. Now you see tons of custom builds done with Remington actions and there's got to be a reason why more people are going that route other then money. Just curious what's everyone's opinion or experience on blue printing a 700 action? Does it make any huge difference. As another thing he mentioned is buying a bat single shot target action or surgeon hunting action with a factory rem barrel will shoot way worse then a rem action with a custom barrel like brux or broughton.

 

[Assault116]

IDK, mine seems to work damn good and it's a LOT cheaper than a custom action. I paid $439+tax for the donor ADL Rifle and after selling all the other parts off it, I had about $150 into it and the truing work was $200 of the build, so for $350 I had a trued up action, which is a hell of a lot cheaper than a custom action. But that was about as best case as it gets and the rifle shoots lights out when I do my part. (My smith also treats me real well) He also told me he'd didn't want to build on another Badger 2013 again after doing one, he wasn't impressed at all. VERY FEW of them (all actions) are going to be perfect out of the box, especially rem700, it's all what your smith can/will do with it.

Long story short, best end result, is probably whatever your smith is most comfortable with, along with your budget guidelines.

 

[dsnipe]

Usually custom actions come down to the buyers budget. If you have the cash to throw down on a custom action then by all means that is a great way to go. I personally dont think you will make any action shoot better than a fully blueprinted remington action. Normally with a custom action people dont just buy them for how true the action is alone. Usually it is purchased because a combination of features. One peice bolt, threaded bolt handle, built in rail and lug, side bolt release etc, etc. All of these feautres if wanted by the purchaser is usaully pretty close to the cost of just a plain ol remington action once all these modifications are made. The way I see it is if a remington action is good enough for some of the top Gunsmiths to do a build on then why not go with it. Case in point, GA precision. How many GaP rifles have you seen on remington 700 actions? A metric shit ton. As well as just cruize the classifieds here, how many custom rifles are there on Remington actions? Another metric shit ton. Your smith saying he does not recommend it, well thats his opinion and he is entitled to that. If I was in your shoes I would send my action out to a well known smith, have her fully blueprinted and roll on with the 700 build. If done right you will not be disappointed and you will notice the difference in before and after. Best of luck brother.

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

Well I just trued up a factory Remington short action the other day. From the factory the lugs were only engaging at around 30% contact. After truing they engage at 100% contact. I'd true the action if I was putting a quality barrel on it. Jmho

 

[Jim B in CO]

Just curious what's everyone's opinion or experience on blue printing a 700 action? Does it make any huge difference. As another thing he mentioned is buying a bat single shot target action or surgeon hunting action with a factory rem barrel will shoot way worse then a rem action with a custom barrel like brux or broughton.

I don't think it makes a "huge" difference, but when you're trying to get it as accurate as possible it's an area for improvement.

I agree with your gunsmith, but who's going to put a factory barrel on a custom action?

One thing I've noticed is that there's a big difference in what gunsmiths charge to true an action. (More than say, chambering/installing a barrel.)

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Find a new gunsmith, he's either an idiot or was trying to sell you an action. What Dsnipe posted above is a good summation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with truing up a rem 700 action.

 

[Jhnmdahl]

Look at the Longrifles Remington action truing group buy in the for sale section - it doesn't cost much to have a Remington action spot-on trued up. The group buy prices for chambering a new barrel are also tough to beat.

John

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Sent you a PM to avoid hurt feelings.

 

[Matt_3479]

He wasn't exactly saying its a bad idea he was just saying that for the money you put into it its almost the same as a going custom action and would be smarter to invest that way. donner action (350-500), fully trued/blueprinted 225 or something along those lines, better installed recoil lug, new extractor, oversize bolt knob, preference of a side bolt stop and a one piece bolt would run you around 550-850 dollars on the high end for everything where he was saying a stiller for 950 (isn't his favorite) would be a slightly better action not by much though for basically the same price. and for that price he was saying you could just through a few extra down to get something thats slightly bit better. He is a very good smith, and he wasn't saying that a trued Remington action wont work as it is extremely popular and tend to be very accurate and didn't want to put him down for that he was just saying if im going to do a full build he would rather see the money spend on something a little nicer (parts will be bought before the build, he doesn't normally get them himself as sometimes you can find them cheaper then he can so he isn't going to be UP selling me on anything for my money basically).

His work is fantastic, his guns always shoot lights out and is one of the most meticulous smiths i know and if it isn't perfect it doesn't leave his shop. I dont mean to be putting him down at all, was just curious if people agreed as i know certain smiths have certain opinions on going Remington fully done up vs stiller basically same price or stepping up to something a little nicer for a couple hundred more. Like i said, i will be supplying the parts except the barrel since he regularly stocks them so he isn't trying to take my money on it. He asked me if id be going timney or Jewel trigger. And i don't know about you but i much prefer the jewel trigger to the timney and feel its a nicer trigger not saying the timney still isn't fantastic and would run one for sure but feel the jewel is a hair nicer even though its basically twice the price. Now he said its the same as the Remington, its a good action, strong and reliable and with it done its great but for almost the same/little more money you can get (in his opinion) a nicer action. The reason for my post is cause im looking to have 2 rifles done one with a doner action since i already have one and one will be a custom action, is it smarter to just sell the doner action and go both custom or doing one of each. But from the response so far i might as well do one of each and get an opinion of my own i have shot and played with blueprinted 700 actions and yes they have all shot fine but the quality of the (bat, defiance, surgeon) seemed a little nicer where the stiller felt a hair smother but not much nicer in quality

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Did you read the message I sent you?

 

[USP45]

He might be correct, but only some of the time. I had one Rem 700 action done and my smith told me it really did not need to be done, but he did not know that until the work was done. When he went to face it the lathe took off the same amount all the way around, it was already true, Lugs were already at 80% + contact. Bolt face hardly had to be touched and was pretty smooth from firing over the years, so in this case the action was already good. But on another 700 the action had to be trued, when he put it on the lathe it was not faced true at all until he cut it. One lug was near 90% contact, the other about 10%. I think the bolt face was pretty true, just rough.

Point being, you may have a good one, or you may not. Until the smith puts the action on the lathe and mics it you really won't know. You can normally tell if the lugs are getting contact using a bright marker or looking at the existing polishing marks from repeated opening and closing of the bolt. If you already have 75% or better contact on both lugs then I really do not know that you will gain much by truing the lugs, you have plenty of good contact to be solid already in my opinion. I personally would not re-barrel a rifle without truing because it would always be in the back of my mind that it might not be right, I would rather know it is right then to question myself in the future.

With that being said my next build will be from scratch and it will probably be on a custom action with a 20 moa rail built on to it. This way I would already have a very good true action to start with, rail would not have to be bedded and would never back out etc. I will already have the bells and whistles and only need stock, barrel, trigger and brake to form the rifle itself. But if I already had a Rem 700 action to start with, I would just true it and use it.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Looking at what the factory puts out such as off recoil lugs, one bolt lug that barely touches and the other not at all, crooked chambers and all on a untrued action... yet they shoot .5-.75 CTC groups at 100 and farther on out... It certainly gives one pause at times How and Why they can and do.

Knowing your sh*t is straight though adds confidence... and can make YOU a better shooter.

 

[Bill Larson]

I would recommend it.I have found rem.700 actions to be up to .013" out of concentric.... with respect to bolt raceway and barrel threads.... and the recoil surface to be hand sanded and out of square with barrel/bolt raceway.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

He wasn't exactly saying its a bad idea he was just saying that for the money you put into it its almost the same as a going custom action and would be smarter to invest that way. donner action (350-500), fully trued/blueprinted 225 or something along those lines, better installed recoil lug, new extractor, oversize bolt knob, preference of a side bolt stop and a one piece bolt would run you around 550-850 dollars on the high end for everything where he was saying a stiller for 950 (isn't his favorite) would be a slightly better action not by much though for basically the same price. and for that price he was saying you could just through a few extra down to get something thats slightly bit better. He is a very good smith, and he wasn't saying that a trued Remington action wont work as it is extremely popular and tend to be very accurate and didn't want to put him down for that he was just saying if im going to do a full build he would rather see the money spend on something a little nicer (parts will be bought before the build, he doesn't normally get them himself as sometimes you can find them cheaper then he can so he isn't going to be UP selling me on anything for my money basically).

His work is fantastic, his guns always shoot lights out and is one of the most meticulous smiths i know and if it isn't perfect it doesn't leave his shop. I dont mean to be putting him down at all, was just curious if people agreed as i know certain smiths have certain opinions on going Remington fully done up vs stiller basically same price or stepping up to something a little nicer for a couple hundred more. Like i said, i will be supplying the parts except the barrel since he regularly stocks them so he isn't trying to take my money on it. He asked me if id be going timney or Jewel trigger. And i don't know about you but i much prefer the jewel trigger to the timney and feel its a nicer trigger not saying the timney still isn't fantastic and would run one for sure but feel the jewel is a hair nicer even though its basically twice the price. Now he said its the same as the Remington, its a good action, strong and reliable and with it done its great but for almost the same/little more money you can get (in his opinion) a nicer action. The reason for my post is cause im looking to have 2 rifles done one with a doner action since i already have one and one will be a custom action, is it smarter to just sell the doner action and go both custom or doing one of each. But from the response so far i might as well do one of each and get an opinion of my own i have shot and played with blueprinted 700 actions and yes they have all shot fine but the quality of the (bat, defiance, surgeon) seemed a little nicer where the stiller felt a hair smother but not much nicer in quality

ok, thats a little bit different statement than your initial post. I now see what your smith was telling you and would agree that when you go full deal feature wise as you stated, then yes, it can cost almost or close to what a custom action out the gate would cost you. Not exact, but close in dollar for dollar with everything added up.

As for triggers, if you plan shooting from the prone on the ground or shooting in the dirt/field conditions, a Timney is your best/wise trigger to use. If all you do is plink off of a bench and dont plan on using the gun in comps or field/dusty conditions, a jewel trigger will work fine.

 

[my human host]

A guy could true up a Remington, weld on a good handle in the right location and have a straight and reliable action for a reasonable amount of money.

Things get a little more complicated when you start adding things like bolt fluting, side bolt releases, and aftermarket knobs.

Resale value goes in favor of the custom action as well, but if you build the right gun in the first place it shouldn't be an issue. Actions are family...... barrels come and go.