Does anyone have any serious methods for how to keep your eyes on the target?
I could use some improvement in this area.
Thanks,
Jeff
I could use some improvement in this area.
Thanks,
Jeff
Advanced Marksmanship Watching bullet impact after your shot
- Thread starter jeffersonv
- Start date
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
sign up for online training, but in a nutshell....straight behind the rifle, correct NPA, and loading the bipod
sign up for online training, but in a nutshell....straight behind the rifle, correct NPA, and loading the bipod
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
Got online training.
Lowlight talks about this in the lesson 5 thread and whether he can translate this technique to online training or not.
He does say he has a serious method for this.
I'm pretty sure I don't, though I would like to!
To me this would likely go beyond what you have kindly (and I do mean that) suggested deadly.
Any other ideas?
Got online training.
Lowlight talks about this in the lesson 5 thread and whether he can translate this technique to online training or not.
He does say he has a serious method for this.
I'm pretty sure I don't, though I would like to!
To me this would likely go beyond what you have kindly (and I do mean that) suggested deadly.
Any other ideas?
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
do a favor, have your wife or someone stand behind you while you are layed out in the prone and post it here. Could be a couple different things, shoulders are cocked more to one side than the other. Not enough load on the bipod.
Couple questions for you:
Which way is the rifle "hopping" or going off target and how much?
What rifle and caliber?
And by "spotting" your shots do you mean being able to see hits on steel per say at 300+ yards? Or paper at 100?
do a favor, have your wife or someone stand behind you while you are layed out in the prone and post it here. Could be a couple different things, shoulders are cocked more to one side than the other. Not enough load on the bipod.
Couple questions for you:
Which way is the rifle "hopping" or going off target and how much?
What rifle and caliber?
And by "spotting" your shots do you mean being able to see hits on steel per say at 300+ yards? Or paper at 100?
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
Good points deadly.
To be honest, I'll have to review to even answer your questions.
I'll try to get to the range this weekend if it isn't still storming.
Even so, are you saying there isn't a "serious method" that hasn't yet been included in the online training that Lowlight still may consider an "advanced skill"?
So far, your suggestions, though good ones, have been covered in the OLT and I've drilled them countless times with a spotter, though theres always room for improvement.
I'm just trying to see if others have specifically addressed this and if there is a technique I can apply in this area to improve.
Thanks again,
Jeff
Good points deadly.
To be honest, I'll have to review to even answer your questions.
I'll try to get to the range this weekend if it isn't still storming.
Even so, are you saying there isn't a "serious method" that hasn't yet been included in the online training that Lowlight still may consider an "advanced skill"?
So far, your suggestions, though good ones, have been covered in the OLT and I've drilled them countless times with a spotter, though theres always room for improvement.
I'm just trying to see if others have specifically addressed this and if there is a technique I can apply in this area to improve.
Thanks again,
Jeff
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
and then there is that acquired skill set of being able to see your bullet trace through the scope.
and then there is that acquired skill set of being able to see your bullet trace through the scope.
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
I guess im uncertain what your asking besides spotting your own impacts. With that said, what are you trying to improve upon? Can you spot your shots as is right now?
I guess im uncertain what your asking besides spotting your own impacts. With that said, what are you trying to improve upon? Can you spot your shots as is right now?
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
What kind of range are we talking about? 100 yards, 300yards, further?
Is your rifle staying on target, but you still can't see the impacts, or is the rifle moving off target upon recoil?
What kind of range are we talking about? 100 yards, 300yards, further?
Is your rifle staying on target, but you still can't see the impacts, or is the rifle moving off target upon recoil?
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
Maybe I'm making something out of nothing?
If you take Botrippers comment about this "skill" and couple that with Lowlights comment in OLT Lesson 5, it seems to me there is something to be picked up on here.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"We do have a serious method for how to keep your eyes on the target, the trick will be whether we can translate it to the online training or not, or if we'll consider it an advanced skill.
But needless to say we have a very unique approach to seeing the shot." -Lowlight
-----------------------------------------------------------------
This sounds to me like a technique in addition to what lessons have already been made available.
Since Lowlight's 'unique approach' has not as yet been made available, I was wondering if anyone else had some input along these lines.
Maybe it's my background in Gracie Jiu Jitsu that has me trying to master as much technique as I can find.
If there's nothing to be learned here so be it. It just appears to me at this point that there is.
Thanks again,
Jeff
Maybe I'm making something out of nothing?
If you take Botrippers comment about this "skill" and couple that with Lowlights comment in OLT Lesson 5, it seems to me there is something to be picked up on here.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"We do have a serious method for how to keep your eyes on the target, the trick will be whether we can translate it to the online training or not, or if we'll consider it an advanced skill.
But needless to say we have a very unique approach to seeing the shot." -Lowlight
-----------------------------------------------------------------
This sounds to me like a technique in addition to what lessons have already been made available.
Since Lowlight's 'unique approach' has not as yet been made available, I was wondering if anyone else had some input along these lines.
Maybe it's my background in Gracie Jiu Jitsu that has me trying to master as much technique as I can find.
If there's nothing to be learned here so be it. It just appears to me at this point that there is.
Thanks again,
Jeff
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
jeff, i think your question is a good one, but my experience with the OLT has been that I "get" the lesson, but results don't just happen until I put it into practice for a while. Then I slowly start to see benefit. Then once I experience a little bit of what the lesson is trying to achieve, I pay attention to how much better my results can get by paying attention to what's going on when they happen. I kinda get these little "Aha!s" as I go and I can capitalize on them and built technique. Sometimes I plateau and see whats going on by trying new stuff. The other day I decided that my muzzle jump had gotten way better, but wasn't getting to where I thought it should be. On a hunch I moved my butt pad up one notch, and things got even better. Sometimes it's just that simple, kinda like what deadly was saying about a shoulder being cocked or something.
I think the trigger school lesson is one of those lessons where the light bulb goes off while you're watching the lesson and results are more immediate, but for the most part I think the majority of lessons require longer practice before they take. If there was another "eureka" lesson though, I wouldn't be complaining, but I'm not holding my breath. The quote from LL may have meant that (and again going back to deadly's suggestion)it's probably kinda hard to teach something through an online lesson that really requires an instructor to watch the student so slight corrections can be made. Otherwise one would be making all sorts of mistakes and not know it, then wonder why the lesson never produced results.
jeff, i think your question is a good one, but my experience with the OLT has been that I "get" the lesson, but results don't just happen until I put it into practice for a while. Then I slowly start to see benefit. Then once I experience a little bit of what the lesson is trying to achieve, I pay attention to how much better my results can get by paying attention to what's going on when they happen. I kinda get these little "Aha!s" as I go and I can capitalize on them and built technique. Sometimes I plateau and see whats going on by trying new stuff. The other day I decided that my muzzle jump had gotten way better, but wasn't getting to where I thought it should be. On a hunch I moved my butt pad up one notch, and things got even better. Sometimes it's just that simple, kinda like what deadly was saying about a shoulder being cocked or something.
I think the trigger school lesson is one of those lessons where the light bulb goes off while you're watching the lesson and results are more immediate, but for the most part I think the majority of lessons require longer practice before they take. If there was another "eureka" lesson though, I wouldn't be complaining, but I'm not holding my breath. The quote from LL may have meant that (and again going back to deadly's suggestion)it's probably kinda hard to teach something through an online lesson that really requires an instructor to watch the student so slight corrections can be made. Otherwise one would be making all sorts of mistakes and not know it, then wonder why the lesson never produced results.
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
Good points ewoaf, and again, I'm fine with that.
It sure would be nice to have your own best-in-the-world instructor by your side for this stuff...
"A serious method" and "a very unique approach" still has me wondering though!
Good points ewoaf, and again, I'm fine with that.
It sure would be nice to have your own best-in-the-world instructor by your side for this stuff...
"A serious method" and "a very unique approach" still has me wondering though!
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bronco</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A muzzle brake or suppressor helps a lot!</div></div>I disagree. I've heard that before and I've come to the conclusion that it's a myth. It only helps if you have a poor initial position behind the rifle. Muzzle 'jump' doesn't prevent the shooter from spotting the shot. I don't use a brake and I can spot bullet impact from 100 to 1000.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bronco</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A muzzle brake or suppressor helps a lot!</div></div>I disagree. I've heard that before and I've come to the conclusion that it's a myth. It only helps if you have a poor initial position behind the rifle. Muzzle 'jump' doesn't prevent the shooter from spotting the shot. I don't use a brake and I can spot bullet impact from 100 to 1000.
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
I find that I tend to blink as the shot is fired the vast majority of the time unless I'm shooting the 10/22, but with my other rifles I tend to be unable to spot my hits unless I'm shooting about 300 yards or further.
Yesterday I was shooting steel out to 600 yards with my AR and found that at 200 yards I recovered from my blink to see the splash but not the actual impact, like a milisecond after it. However further out I had no problem seeing the rounds impact.
The only exception to this is doing reflexive fire, then I see all my impacts, its pretty cool going into a live shoot house and seeing your impacts at targets that are like 7 feet from you. For me everything seems to go slow motion as soon as the door gets breached.
I find that I tend to blink as the shot is fired the vast majority of the time unless I'm shooting the 10/22, but with my other rifles I tend to be unable to spot my hits unless I'm shooting about 300 yards or further.
Yesterday I was shooting steel out to 600 yards with my AR and found that at 200 yards I recovered from my blink to see the splash but not the actual impact, like a milisecond after it. However further out I had no problem seeing the rounds impact.
The only exception to this is doing reflexive fire, then I see all my impacts, its pretty cool going into a live shoot house and seeing your impacts at targets that are like 7 feet from you. For me everything seems to go slow motion as soon as the door gets breached.
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
It doesn't happen often enough for me yet, but when I see the round explode on the steel it is SWEET! I see it happening more with practice but it does seem to take a lot of trial and error with small changes to body position, pressure on the rifle and follow-through to get it right.
It doesn't happen often enough for me yet, but when I see the round explode on the steel it is SWEET! I see it happening more with practice but it does seem to take a lot of trial and error with small changes to body position, pressure on the rifle and follow-through to get it right.
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bronco</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A muzzle brake or suppressor helps a lot!</div></div>I disagree. I've heard that before and I've come to the conclusion that it's a myth. It only helps if you have a poor initial position behind the rifle. Muzzle 'jump' doesn't prevent the shooter from spotting the shot. I don't use a brake and I can spot bullet impact from 100 to 1000. </div></div>
I have to agree with Graham on this. You should be able to see your hits at any distance. Postion will tell you if your body and rifle are in a line. The online training goes over this. Bipod pressure is another thing cover inthe online training.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bronco</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A muzzle brake or suppressor helps a lot!</div></div>I disagree. I've heard that before and I've come to the conclusion that it's a myth. It only helps if you have a poor initial position behind the rifle. Muzzle 'jump' doesn't prevent the shooter from spotting the shot. I don't use a brake and I can spot bullet impact from 100 to 1000. </div></div>
I have to agree with Graham on this. You should be able to see your hits at any distance. Postion will tell you if your body and rifle are in a line. The online training goes over this. Bipod pressure is another thing cover inthe online training.
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
This is one area of my shooting that I have practiced over and over but have not been able to master. My rifle always jumps to the left upon firing and I can never see my hits. I make a conscious effort to be as straight behind the rifle as possible, pulling the rifle as close to the centerline of my body as I can. I load my bipod (Harris) as much as possible without slipping, which really isnt all that much because it slips easily.
This is one area of my shooting that I have practiced over and over but have not been able to master. My rifle always jumps to the left upon firing and I can never see my hits. I make a conscious effort to be as straight behind the rifle as possible, pulling the rifle as close to the centerline of my body as I can. I load my bipod (Harris) as much as possible without slipping, which really isnt all that much because it slips easily.
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
There are several things going on when it comes time to spot your own shots, and its almost all shooter dependent.
First you have to straight behind the rifle. The angle in your shoulder, spine and with the rifle will greatly effect the movement of the rifle.
Next you have to have to good edge to edge sight picture, not to mention a scope that is bit forgiving on the eye relief. if your sight picture goes black because your eye relief is critical, see about adjusting it better. Don't strain to gain that sight picture your head should fall in place naturally.
Finally, trigger control and follow through. If your off on the trigger you're not only going to adversely affect the shot, you're going to cause the rifle to move unnaturally.
Here is the video I did on shooting a rifle on concrete with no hop... notice how little the rifle actually moves. If you do it all right, it will recoil in a straight line so you shouldn't lose sight picture or be that far off the shot. Some people are off about a 1 mil or so and honestly, depending on the situation that is not bad, I wouldn't sweat being a mil off especially on hard surface. If you are a mil off on software ground, then consider adjusting your positions, but on concrete, hey it happens.
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There are several things going on when it comes time to spot your own shots, and its almost all shooter dependent.
First you have to straight behind the rifle. The angle in your shoulder, spine and with the rifle will greatly effect the movement of the rifle.
Next you have to have to good edge to edge sight picture, not to mention a scope that is bit forgiving on the eye relief. if your sight picture goes black because your eye relief is critical, see about adjusting it better. Don't strain to gain that sight picture your head should fall in place naturally.
Finally, trigger control and follow through. If your off on the trigger you're not only going to adversely affect the shot, you're going to cause the rifle to move unnaturally.
Here is the video I did on shooting a rifle on concrete with no hop... notice how little the rifle actually moves. If you do it all right, it will recoil in a straight line so you shouldn't lose sight picture or be that far off the shot. Some people are off about a 1 mil or so and honestly, depending on the situation that is not bad, I wouldn't sweat being a mil off especially on hard surface. If you are a mil off on software ground, then consider adjusting your positions, but on concrete, hey it happens.
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Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are several things going on when it comes time to spot your own shots, and its almost all shooter dependent.
First you have to straight behind the rifle. The angle in your shoulder, spine and with the rifle will greatly effect the movement of the rifle.
Next you have to have to good edge to edge sight picture, not to mention a scope that is bit forgiving on the eye relief. if your sight picture goes black because your eye relief is critical, see about adjusting it better. Don't strain to gain that sight picture your head should fall in place naturally.
Finally, trigger control and follow through. If your off on the trigger you're not only going to adversely affect the shot, you're going to cause the rifle to move unnaturally.
Here is the video I did on shooting a rifle on concrete with no hop... notice how little the rifle actually moves. If you do it all right, it will recoil in a straight line so you shouldn't lose sight picture or be that far off the shot. Some people are off about a 1 mil or so and honestly, depending on the situation that is not bad, I wouldn't sweat being a mil off especially on hard surface. If you are a mil off on software ground, then consider adjusting your positions, but on concrete, hey it happens.
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Thanks for the help. One thing I see differing opinions on is the grip of the trigger hand. Some say to apply a firm reward pressure while I've seen others shoot with almost no grip at all. Any comments?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are several things going on when it comes time to spot your own shots, and its almost all shooter dependent.
First you have to straight behind the rifle. The angle in your shoulder, spine and with the rifle will greatly effect the movement of the rifle.
Next you have to have to good edge to edge sight picture, not to mention a scope that is bit forgiving on the eye relief. if your sight picture goes black because your eye relief is critical, see about adjusting it better. Don't strain to gain that sight picture your head should fall in place naturally.
Finally, trigger control and follow through. If your off on the trigger you're not only going to adversely affect the shot, you're going to cause the rifle to move unnaturally.
Here is the video I did on shooting a rifle on concrete with no hop... notice how little the rifle actually moves. If you do it all right, it will recoil in a straight line so you shouldn't lose sight picture or be that far off the shot. Some people are off about a 1 mil or so and honestly, depending on the situation that is not bad, I wouldn't sweat being a mil off especially on hard surface. If you are a mil off on software ground, then consider adjusting your positions, but on concrete, hey it happens.
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Thanks for the help. One thing I see differing opinions on is the grip of the trigger hand. Some say to apply a firm reward pressure while I've seen others shoot with almost no grip at all. Any comments?
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
The issue with the grip is, most people build the hand position from the grip forward, where they should build it from the trigger back. Secondly, they try to "load" the bipod and then when they grip the rifle they pull the rifle back, "unloading" it and then wonder why it goes wrong.
The primary function of that hand is to press the trigger, the secondary purpose is to control the rifle, or grip it. If you are doing more of second which causes you to do the primary wrong, you have problems.
We did a test, changing nothing more than adjusting my trigger finger from the pad of the finger to the first joint and while we saw no difference at 100 yards, we had a 1/2" loss in accuracy at 300 yards with all things being equal.
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There is a lot more in the Online Training section but needless to saw, a lot of what we do affects the shots while the bullet is still in the bore. How you manipulate the rifle from grip, to trigger, to body position will determine the outcome of your efforts.
The issue with the grip is, most people build the hand position from the grip forward, where they should build it from the trigger back. Secondly, they try to "load" the bipod and then when they grip the rifle they pull the rifle back, "unloading" it and then wonder why it goes wrong.
The primary function of that hand is to press the trigger, the secondary purpose is to control the rifle, or grip it. If you are doing more of second which causes you to do the primary wrong, you have problems.
We did a test, changing nothing more than adjusting my trigger finger from the pad of the finger to the first joint and while we saw no difference at 100 yards, we had a 1/2" loss in accuracy at 300 yards with all things being equal.
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There is a lot more in the Online Training section but needless to saw, a lot of what we do affects the shots while the bullet is still in the bore. How you manipulate the rifle from grip, to trigger, to body position will determine the outcome of your efforts.
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
I better sign up for training also in that I have never watched my own trace?
Bill
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and then there is that acquired skill set of being able to see your bullet trace through the scope. </div></div>
I better sign up for training also in that I have never watched my own trace?
Bill
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and then there is that acquired skill set of being able to see your bullet trace through the scope. </div></div>
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
as always great info by lowlight and it is taken into consideration and practiced always by me and by others im sure thanks lowlight! i too have had some problems in this area but am getting much better by listening to the vets and lots of time behind a .22 and 223 rifle working on fundamentals
as always great info by lowlight and it is taken into consideration and practiced always by me and by others im sure thanks lowlight! i too have had some problems in this area but am getting much better by listening to the vets and lots of time behind a .22 and 223 rifle working on fundamentals
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
That's the $#!+ right there.
Thanks LL.
Where else to you get that just for asking?!
Seems max eye relief/forgiveness in a scope would go a long way here. Not to overlook proper technique of course.
That's the $#!+ right there.
Thanks LL.
Where else to you get that just for asking?!
Seems max eye relief/forgiveness in a scope would go a long way here. Not to overlook proper technique of course.
Re: Watching bullet impact after your shot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bronco</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A muzzle brake or suppressor helps a lot!</div></div>I disagree. I've heard that before and I've come to the conclusion that it's a myth. It only helps if you have a poor initial position behind the rifle. Muzzle 'jump' doesn't prevent the shooter from spotting the shot. I don't use a brake and I can spot bullet impact from 100 to 1000. </div></div>
I have to agree with Graham on this. You should be able to see your hits at any distance. Postion will tell you if your body and rifle are in a line. The online training goes over this. Bipod pressure is another thing cover inthe online training. </div></div>
Offhand slap at my shooting form, which you have never seen aside, I did say helps not solves the problem. If the rifle has less recoil impulse it will be easier to control.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bronco</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A muzzle brake or suppressor helps a lot!</div></div>I disagree. I've heard that before and I've come to the conclusion that it's a myth. It only helps if you have a poor initial position behind the rifle. Muzzle 'jump' doesn't prevent the shooter from spotting the shot. I don't use a brake and I can spot bullet impact from 100 to 1000. </div></div>
I have to agree with Graham on this. You should be able to see your hits at any distance. Postion will tell you if your body and rifle are in a line. The online training goes over this. Bipod pressure is another thing cover inthe online training. </div></div>
Offhand slap at my shooting form, which you have never seen aside, I did say helps not solves the problem. If the rifle has less recoil impulse it will be easier to control.
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