Waterproof warm jacket/pant

[Shanerbanner10]

Hey guys, I am starting a new job that requires working at high elevations and in the elements. I’m looking for recommendations for extremely warm and waterproof jackets and pants while still being able to move well (have to often climb a couple hundred feet).
I don’t mind spending decent money on quality gear that will last and is warm. I’m a big ole pussy when it comes to cold. Lol.

 

[usmcmad]

I have always found that warm and waterproof should be two different layers. If you have one jacket doing both you can overheat depending on conditions. Go for warmth and then a shell/waterproof layer and break it out when needed. For warmth, lightweight and easy to maneuver in look at the synthetic down materials. For waterproof just get a shell, gore-tex or something similar.

 

[Luke]

Exactly what USMCMAD said. The best solution is an insulation layer (down, synthetic fill, etc.) and then a hardshell over that for water and wind protection. Depending on the conditions you can wear either layer individually, or both of them together. Cold, calm, and dry = Insulation layer. 20 degrees, snow, and wind = both layers. Mild, but windy = Hardshell.

After years of haphazardly throwing on random layers of clothes on in attempt to stay warm, it finally dawned on me that I should learn from the back country skiers and cold weather expedition people and actually have a cold weather "system" vs. my random approach. I'm really glad I did, because I've been able to thin down my warm clothes to just a few pieces, where as I had a whole pile of sweatshirts and jackets previously.

Also be flexible and ready to adjust your clothing as conditions change and be sure to take a little extra time to control your heat/sweat output. If you're doing strenuous work wear the minimum amount of jackets, etc. so you don't overheat and start to sweat. Staying dry is key. As soon as you stop working, throw on your insulation layers and a warm hat to keep that body heat from dissipating.

I was hiking this past weekend and successfully used this strategy. At the trailhead, getting my gear ready I had my insulation layer on. I started hiking and quickly started building up heat, so I took the insulation layer off, and just hiked in my long sleeve shirt. As I got higher in elevation the wind increased, so I put on the hardshell with the pit zips open to keep from getting sweaty and clammy. At the top of the mountain I stopped and before I sat down and rested I put on the insulation layer under the hardshell and a fleece hat. I was comfortable the entire trip, and didn't end up soaked with sweat or too cold. You really have to stay a step ahead of everything and adjust your clothing before you're cold/hot/sweaty.

In years past I didn't want to take the time to add/remove clothing and always ended up sweaty, or cold, whatever.

For what it's worth I use Arcteryx gear almost exclusively. It's very expensive, but it works extremely well. Buy once, cry once kinda thing.

Edited to add: The specific pieces I use are the Arcteryx Atom Hoody, and the LEAF Alpha hardshell top & bottom. I still need to get an insulation layer pant, but rarely need that much insulation for my legs.

 

[PDXGS]

Agreed on all said above.

For shells I highly recommend Arcteryx....particualrly their LEAF line which is occasionally available at their outlet stores in Tulalip, Wa and Castle Rock , Co.
I use the Alpha jacket and pants.
As for insulation, the Eddie Bauer First Ascent line of down insulated jackets are a great deal for the $$
They have several of their jackets on sale currently including their highest insulated down -overkill if you're using a shell.
I use this one at a barn, daily, under an Arcteryx shell in the fine winter weather of Western Oregon.
It's not the best, but for the price it's a steal and I wont give as much of a damn if a horse bites through it!
http://www.eddiebauer.com/product/me...izetype=&size=

For base layers I almost exclusively use Icebreaker Merino wool. It doesn't stink after multiple wearings, comes in several levels of insulation and is patterned well for humans.

 

[Ironman675]

I use both Arcteryx and kuiu shells and mid layer(loft, down, etc.) and wear merino wool as base layer when its cold, or tech type fabrics when weather is milder. keep in mind shells and such are more 'water resistant " than water proof. if you are going to be in a all day wet environment nothing this side of the Gordon's fisherman or rubberized canvas will keep you dry, but those don't breath so your wet from the inside out.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Thanks guys. I will be looking into your suggestions today.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Opinions- I’m looking at purchasing the Arc’teryx Atom AR, Alpha SL hard shell top and bottom, Rho LT base layer pant?
I will probably end up with a top base layer but figured for the
most part all that should keep me pretty warm. I have insulated/goretex Danners so my feet tend to stay pretty warm.

 

[Dougie308]

I have always found that warm and waterproof should be two different layers. If you have one jacket doing both you can overheat depending on conditions. Go for warmth and then a shell/waterproof layer and break it out when needed. For warmth, lightweight and easy to maneuver in look at the synthetic down materials. For waterproof just get a shell, gore-tex or something similar.

Agreed. Not only does layering tend to work better. You can strip one off if unneeded. I personally use surplus gortex, fleece and UA-like base.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

I know Arc’teryx well and it has done me right in the past.
i figure like most things buy once cry onces probably isn’t a terrible idea here.
this stuff will also get used for Shooting matches (if I have time). I’ll probably pull the trigger on all that tonight unless someone has any better advice.

 

[J!m]

I'll throw Canada Goose into the fray as a brand you might consider.

Depending on all that was mentioned above as it applies to your expected exposure, they may have something for you.

Generally geared toward extreme cold (all countries on station at the south pole use their stuff) but they have now (unfortunately?) branched out in the last ten years to be more fashion oriented. I am seeing a lot of "me too" styles with a round patch on the sleeve... That's a Canada Goose thing that is now copied. A lot.

I have a Snow Mantra parka I can't even put on unless its below freezing as well as down pants and mittens from them. I was in the Artic in February a few years ago and toasty warm. Great stuff.

Anyway, good luck on the new job!

 

[Luke]

Shanerbanner10: That combo would be awesome.

Just be aware of all the different SL, LT, AR, SV acronyms. SL= Super Light, LT= Light, AR=All-Round, SV=Severe. Generally they're all pretty similar but the face fabric towards the SV end tend to be more tough and durable. Not sure what type of work you're doing, but it might make a difference if you expect you'll be bushwacking through branches/limbs, brushing up against sharp metal, etc.

Also the main differences between the Alpha, Beta, and Theta jackets are the cut. Alpha is a pretty average cut for general purpose use. The Beta line is a little shorter in torso length for extra mobility, especially if you're wearing a harness or whatever. The Theta line has a much longer torso that comes well below your waist for the maximum amount of coverage. The fit of these jackets tend to be for average to athletic build, and they are plenty long in the sleeves which I'm very thankful for being 6'4".

I have the Atom LT Hoody and have worn it heavily for the last three winters, and it's still going strong. Whenever it comes time get a new one I'll get the one without a hood, because I rarely use it, and it's not adding extra bulk when I wear it for everyday use.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Shanerbanner10: That combo would be awesome.

Just be aware of all the different SL, LT, AR, SV acronyms. SL= Super Light, LT= Light, AR=All-Round, SV=Severe. Generally they're all pretty similar but the face fabric towards the SV end tend to be more tough and durable. Not sure what type of work you're doing, but it might make a difference if you expect you'll be bushwacking through branches/limbs, brushing up against sharp metal, etc.

Also the main differences between the Alpha, Beta, and Theta jackets are the cut. Alpha is a pretty average cut for general purpose use. The Beta line is a little shorter in torso length for extra mobility, especially if you're wearing a harness or whatever. The Theta line has a much longer torso that comes well below your waist for the maximum amount of coverage. The fit of these jackets tend to be for average to athletic build, and they are plenty long in the sleeves which I'm very thankful for being 6'4".

I have the Atom LT Hoody and have worn it heavily for the last three winters, and it's still going strong. Whenever it comes time get a new one I'll get the one without a hood, because I rarely use it, and it's not adding extra bulk when I wear it for everyday use.

Perfect info! I will look into the beta line. I will be in and out of harnesses. I’m doing emissions testing for power plants.

 

[Luke]

Where abouts are you located? I subcontracted for a company in the Denver area doing that same thing a few years ago. We were doing mercury emissions testing out in Evansville, IN. For as dirty as power plants are I'd throw out everything I already recommended and get something cheap that I wouldn't mind getting filthy, LOL! But I totally understand the position you're in. I was burning up walking around inside, and then freezing my tail off 20 stories up in the snow and wind.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Where abouts are you located? I subcontracted for a company in the Denver area doing that same thing a few years ago. We were doing mercury emissions testing out in Evansville, IN. For as dirty as power plants are I'd throw out everything I already recommended and get something cheap that I wouldn't mind getting filthy, LOL! But I totally understand the position you're in. I was burning up walking around inside, and then freezing my tail off 20 stories up in the snow and wind.

Headquarters is in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. Im in Maryland this week. We do mostly start ups so brand new stuff.

 

[Strykervet]

Whatever you get, let me tell you from experience, LAYER! The LAST thing you want at high elevation is sweat. You should be a little chilly at all times IMO. You need to layer properly too, you can't just throw shit on. Different layers need to breathe differently, but you don't want anything that doesn't breathe. Cheap cold weather gear is useless. Only use insulated pants if you absolutely have to, warm feet, torso, hands and head allows your legs, which mine don't usually "feel cold" to dissipate extra heat via the femoral artery. This helps prevent sweat tremendously. When you move, you heat up, when you stop, you cool down, but it's more pronounced up there. If your legs are so cold they don't move well, then try thinner stuff first. That's my advice from my experience. Layer on, layer off.

In the army, I used the usual gear. But typically goretex and different thickness of polypro. That was good enough down to freezing. If it's REALLY cold, there was the ECWS.

For something better than issue gear, the absolute best appears to be Arcteryx. VERY expensive, but you said price wasn't a problem. It's very light and I think their top of the line system has seven layers. With all seven layers it still looks very comfortable. It's military grade shit, so there's that. You can get it in non-military colors though. My buddy asked me this question a few years back, he got one and it's all he uses now.

REI is another that comes to mind, it'd be nice but I don't think their stuff is suited to working in. I could be wrong. I know the Arcteryx shit is.

Just be careful up there, don't sweat, don't wear too much, carry an extra pair of socks and an underarmor shirt at all times if you can. You need more calories up there too, so don't be surprised if you lose a bit of weight. Energy bars were nice to have.

If you are gonna be in a place where you can get stuck in a blizzard, you may wanna consider a survival pack too. I've been caught in one just a few hundred yards from home and had to crawl there using the curb. Totally snowblind. Happened INSTANTLY too. Just be careful, that's all. You'll learn, but you wanna be in a position to learn from your mistakes, yeah? Good luck!

 

[nexusfire]

+1 arcteryx leaf

 

[Shanerbanner10]

I ended up purchasing Arc'Teryx Beta SL Hybrid jacket, Atom AR midlayer, Rho LT Base pants, and will be purchasing a base top and Beta SL pants here in the next week or so.
I spent a bit of time today in 10 degree (- windchill) temps. I only had the Beta SL Hybrid with me (the rest was Amazon'ed to my house half way across the US) and I will say the Beta SL with 2 fleeces and a tee shirt kept me fairly warm. I think one fleece and the Atom AR will keep me nice and cozy. Tomorrow morning I will be much higher and the wind will probably be quite a bit stronger with similar temps so that will be the real test.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

What is the arcteryx warranty? Because patagonia has one that is lifetime for any reason. Doesn't get better than that.
Same with darn tough socks.

It's not buy once and cry once if you have to buy it again later

Love buying this type of gear from REI. Use it and don't like it? take it back for a year with no questions asked.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

What is the arcteryx warranty? Because patagonia has one that is lifetime for any reason. Doesn't get better than that.
Same with darn tough socks.

It's not buy once and cry once if you have to buy it again later

Love buying this type of gear from REI. Use it and don't like it? take it back for a year with no questions asked.

i believe Arc’teryx has a lifetime warranty as well. I actually ripped the jacket I bought from REI already so I will be contacting Arc’teryx soon. I expected it to be a bit stronger/more resilient. It’s what it is though.

 

[super_poot]

Anyone have any experience with TAD (Tripple Aught Design)? I just came across them searching for the same thing as the OP.

 

[plong]

I've always preferred Wild Things Gear over dead bird (not that I think there's anything wrong with Arc, I've just always preferred Wild Things materials specs and felt their execution was a little bit better). I can't, however, speak to what they've done, good or bad, since Marie "retired" and the VCs took over.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

i believe Arc’teryx has a lifetime warranty as well. I actually ripped the jacket I bought from REI already so I will be contacting Arc’teryx soon. I expected it to be a bit stronger/more resilient. It’s what it is though.

There is a difference between "lifetime warranty" because they will fix a defect. And a lifetime warranty where you can return it for any reason at any time for a full refund.

You ripped a jacket you bought at REI. what jacket? how long ago?

 

[Shanerbanner10]

There is a difference between "lifetime warranty" because they will fix a defect. And a lifetime warranty where you can return it for any reason at any time for a full refund.

You ripped a jacket you bought at REI. what jacket? how long ago?

I purchased the jacket on Friday, it tore on Sunday.

 

[WATERWALKER]

You may want to consider BEYOND Apparel. If you’ve got the cash to burn BEYOND is the shizzle. I wore this stuff in northern Maine for a couple winters & if it’ll stand up to rough work in that environment it’ll work anywhere. I’ve worn it for hours in -25*F & never once got cold. I had some badass ice sickles in my eyebrows though!

BEYOND is comparable to Arc’Teryx. It’s a seven layer system w/ a badass warranty & should provide years worth of use.

As for the DANNER boots be sure to go over the specs thoroughly. I was issued a pair of Danner’s that we’re supposed to be “winter boots.” There was only 400 gr of Thinsulate & they were woefully inadequate for negative temps.

Outdoor Research makes nice hats & gloves for cold temps as well. If you’ve got any questions feel free to shoot me a PM. I’ve got lots of experience working in cold ass temps, riding sleds, snowshoeing, etc.

 

[DP425]

Allow me to jump in on this and inquire a bit. So I can get mil discounts on Outdoor Research, Wild Things, and Arc’Teryx. I'm not going to list specific pricing, but I'll break it down by the jackets (I'll be getting the matching model pants) I'm looking at and how they price out compared to each other; I'd appreciate input on which would be the route to go for value.

Models I'm looking at in order of most expensive to least:
Arc’Teryx LEAF- Alpha Gen 2
Outdoor Research- Infiltrator Jacket ($10 less than Alpha Gen 2)
Wild Things- Hard Shell Jacket SO 1.0V ($315 less than Alpha Gen 2)

Now, the biggest issue right up front is availability of the Alpha Gen 2; Arc’Teryx LEAF discount site shows their stuff as out of stock far more often than in-stock. Right now, that jacket is out of stock in every color, in my size (actually, it's only showing in stock for Black, XXL; every other color and size are out of stock). So actually getting my hands on one at the approprate pricing will be difficult (and it is a significant discount, so I wouldn't just buy full price)

Best I can tell off the cuff, the only real downsides to the OR and WT are in color selection... However, I really have no idea on construction and materials quality; none of these have I ever seen in person. OR color options are Grey and Coyote, WT has Coyote and Multcam... and I'm not getting multicam. Arc’Teryx seems to offer Multicam, Black, Grey, Ranger Green, and Crocodile (sort of coyote color with a hint of green to it). I already have a couple Arc’Teryx items in Crocodile (base layer and gloves), and had intended to get the Alpha Gen 2 in Ranger Green for the top, Crocodile for the bottoms. That would make the top more usable out and about in day to day life, without looking like I haven't come to terms with my military retirement.

So, what's ya'll's thoughts on this? Spend the most on Arc’Teryx and hold out for a color that's a bit less "military"? Step down a slight (fairly insignificant actually) bit in cost to OR and roll with the semi-boring Grey color? Or save a bunch of $$$ with WT, and just deal with the Coyote color?

 

[plong]

IMHO if you can purchase Wild Things priced below Arc it’s a no brainer, go for it! As I said in my post above I strongly prefer their gear outright. I need to quality that statement, however, to add that I’m assuming you’re talking about their US made Berry compliant gear. They do have a line they sell through the WalMart of shooting sports, among others (can you hear me Larry P...?) that is made overseas, Jordan if I’m remembering correctly, that line is not of the same quality of execution as their US made gear. One further qualifier, since you said you’re looking for a hard shell. Wild Things recently changed their selection of hard shell fabric from eVent to Gore Military. I’ve always preferred eVent for a hard shell as I feel it breathes better, which is vital to keeping warm and dry. I have no experience with the new Gore “Military” fabrics so I can’t speak to their performance.

 

[TheOE800]

I have no experience with the new Gore “Military” fabrics so I can’t speak to their performance.

Less breathable, but more durable than Gore Pro was what I got out of Arcteryx when I asked them a similar question when their line migrated to the newest Gore Military fabrics.

 

[plong]

Less breathable, but more durable than Gore Pro was what I got out of Arcteryx when I asked them a similar question when their line migrated to the newest Gore Military fabrics.

Ouch... if less breathable than Pro that would be a non- starter for me as I’ve not been satisfied with Gore’s breathabily versus eVent. One further thought, though, with Arc you’re getting Gore as well so if choosing between WT and Arc, fabric selection won’t be the differentiator.

 

[DP425]

IMHO if you can purchase Wild Things priced below Arc it’s a no brainer, go for it! As I said in my post above I strongly prefer their gear outright. I need to quality that statement, however, to add that I’m assuming you’re talking about their US made Berry compliant gear. They do have a line they sell through the WalMart of shooting sports, among others (can you hear me Larry P...?) that is made overseas, Jordan if I’m remembering correctly, that line is not of the same quality of execution as their US made gear. One further qualifier, since you said you’re looking for a hard shell. Wild Things recently changed their selection of hard shell fabric from eVent to Gore Military. I’ve always preferred eVent for a hard shell as I feel it breathes better, which is vital to keeping warm and dry. I have no experience with the new Gore “Military” fabrics so I can’t speak to their performance.

The WT hard shell is $330 less than the Alpha Gen 2 at retail pricing, so I would presume, it would always be less than the Arc. This seems to be the case with just about all of their tactical line offerings compared to roughly equivalent Arc LEAF products.

That said, you believe it's at least an equal product? It sounds like they use the same materials.

 

[J!m]

Here's some Canada Goose links. Note the Snow Mantra is sold out at the moment, but some retailers may have one (if it's not too warm for you). It's a good fitting coat that gets better as it breaks in, like a good leather jacket does. Also, sinching up the waist cord gives a better fit and good mobility. Features that may be usefull to you include the inside radio pocket, exterior "window" for I.D because when the snorkel is closed, you can't tell who's who!

https://www.canadagoose.com/us/en/s...ice-high-to-low&sz=137&start=1&cgid=shop-mens

The oil rig coverall I was thinking of earlier (also for extreme cold):

https://www.canadagoose.com/us/en/a...=shop-mens-pants#start=1&cgid=shop-mens-pants

This might be a good top layer if it's not as cold:

https://www.canadagoose.com/us/en/s...ightweight#start=1&cgid=shop-mens-lightweight

 

[plong]

The WT hard shell is $330 less than the Alpha Gen 2 at retail pricing, so I would presume, it would always be less than the Arc. This seems to be the case with just about all of their tactical line offerings compared to roughly equivalent Arc LEAF products.

That said, you believe it's at least an equal product? It sounds like they use the same materials.

I do believe WT to be "at least" an equal product. As I've said: at = $$ I'd choose Wild Things (US made) over Arc every time. I'm just a guy but there used to be a member here that guided expeditions in AK (went by .45.308, I believe) who's life often depended on the reliability of his gear. He absolutely swore by WT.

 

[SND]

Carhartt if you’re doing anything physical. Their waterproof line is also pretty durable but not suited for hot work associated with pipe-fitting, welding etc.