We lost.

[zfk55sr]

The Swiss votes are in and counted. The French Cantons and French speaking Swiss have destroyed
the last country of it's kind. Swiss sport shooting and competition is officially dead. No more semi or selective mode rifles
will be allowed or manufactured. The FRIGGIN EU has won.
The details will be available before long.
Please delete if this is off base for the forum.

 

[diverdon]

The Swiss votes are in and counted. The French Cantons and French speaking Swiss have destroyed
the last country of it's kind. Swiss sport shooting and competition is officially dead. No more semi or selective mode rifles
will be allowed or manufactured. The FRIGGIN EU has won.
The details will be available before long.
Please delete if this is off base for the forum.

I'll morne for them.

 

[zfk55sr]

A lot of loose ends to look at before this is all over, but I'm watching and reading this closely.
My man in Brislach is also communicating with me, but at this point it doesn't look good for the riflemen of Switzerland.
Glad I speak and read German at the moment. Some of the finest sniper rifles in the world come from there.

 

[Racer88]

That's what happens when you don't have a Constitutional Right.... Fortunately, our (American) Rights are subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility. Though, that's what they're TRYING to do here. But, that pesky Constitution, eh?

But, if you live in Europe.... Sucks to be you.

 

[Felhammer]

Fucking French!!!! They ruined hats, cheese, pancakes, omelettes, and now Switzerland!? WTF? Were are the Viking hordes when you need them? Resurrect Bjørn “Ironsides” Reginherusson to burn Paris to the ground one more time! Siege of Paris 2020.... “Make The French Mind Their Own Business Again!”

 

[Soulezoo]

Rollo the Viking came down to pillage France. The short of it is the French king gave them what is now Normandy. Those Vikings became the Normans. France swallowed them up as vassals of the King. But not before they went over and conquered England and changed that history.

 

[acudaowner]

'Tis almost morning, I would have thee gone—
And yet no farther than a wan-ton's bird,
That lets it hop a little from his hand,
Like a poor prisoner in his twisted gyves,
And with a silken thread plucks it back again,
So loving-jealous of his liberty.

Romeo:
I would I were thy bird.

Juliet:
Sweet, so would I,
Yet I should kill thee with much cherishing.
Good night, good night! Parting is such sweet sorrow,
That I shall say good night till it be morrow.

 

[Felhammer]

Rollo the Viking came down to pillage France. The short of it is the French king gave them what is now Normandy. Those Vikings became the Normans. France swallowed them up as vassals of the King. But not before they went over and conquered England and changed that history.

Rollo was the third Viking siege of Paris. The first was Reginherus Randolfsson. The second was his son Bjørn.

 

[Soulezoo]

I mentioned Rollo because I know more about him... distantly related.

 

[Felhammer]

I mentioned Rollo because I know more about him... distantly related.

Cool, I am a descendant of Einar Blood Eagle. My father and my maternal grandparents were born north of Tørshavn. On my fathers side we are of the Rændülvur (Charging Wolves) tribe and my mothers side is of the Vedrürhámari (Rams Hammer) tribe.

 

[lonegunman762x51]

Most people would gladly vote themselves into rail cars and ride to the extermination camps with smiles on their faces if they thought it was for their own good. Voluntarily disarming for the prospect of being made "safe" by armed government employees is the absolute height of stupidity.

 

[Brasscow]

That's what happens when you don't have a Constitutional Right.... Fortunately, our (American) Rights are subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility. Though, that's what they're TRYING to do here. But, that pesky Constitution, eh?

But, if you live in Europe.... Sucks to be you.

Don’t be a dick head.

1934
1968
1986
1994

If you think it can’t happen here you’re delusional. We’re Rome circa 400AD.

 

[308pirate]

Holy shit this sucks bad.

 

[pmclaine]

I had hopes Brexit would be the beginning of the end of the EU......looks like the will of the voters is going to be "waited" out.

Hitler went about creating "Europa" all wrong.

Rather than use force to bring about the enslavement of the continent he should have just asked.

wasnt yesterday also the start of some huge Swiss shooting comp? An event that get like 150K participants/spectators?

Remember pedaling my bike around Geneva circa 1989 and the ranges were frequently encountered and typically noisy from good use.

 

[RTH1800]

The socialist get inroads to freedoms by offering free stuff. Once the population is addicted they take the freedoms one at a time. Then you can remove the free stuff by again revoking perks one item at a time.

Centers on healthcare. Or, simply drop the quality to the point no one wants it.
One thing they all have in common is a two tiered system. The elites have a different system of benefits than the idiots who vote them in.

 

[wigwamitus]

... it doesn't look good for the riflemen of Switzerland ...

Is it true that the "anti-rifle" women of Switzerland led the winning vote ?

 

[pmclaine]

The socialist get inroads to freedoms by offering free stuff. Once the population is addicted they take the freedoms one at a time. Then you can remove the free stuff by again revoking perks one item at a time.

Centers on healthcare. Or, simply drop the quality to the point no one wants it.
One thing they all have in common is a two tiered system. The elites have a different system of benefits than the idiots who vote them in.

Or they increase your population of French people until they can control the vote............

Wish those "Yellow Vests" were contagious.

 

[sandwarrior]

Apparently, there were two treaties, the EU twisted their arms with. The first and most important is the Shengen (sp?) area treaty which allows free passage of 26 countries without need of a passport. The EU in Brussels would revoke this if Switzerland, did not bring their gun laws more into compliance with EU gun laws. Who the fuck is the EU to dictate to individual countries what their laws will be??!?!?

The second was an asylum agreement, that somehow Switzerland and Ireland are prominent proponents of. I can't find the article again, but this arm-twisting kind of politics has got to be stopped!

 

[pmclaine]

Who the fuck is the EU to dictate to individual countries what their laws will be??!?!?

Same shit different day.

Something to ponder when we celebrate D-Day plus 75 in june.

 

[zfk55sr]

I subscribe to a Swiss online newspaper. I speak and read German so I try to keep up with it. This deal has more hidden twists, turns and crap in it than Omuzzie's health care. There are apparently still a lot of misunderstood aspects of this deal, but none of it is good. It will probably be another week at least before it's broken down into the simple language that most of us speak and comprehend.
Anyone who can read German......... this is a link to the general take on it all. https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/federal...fb9z5O7XxnEV76b1AXj08_PXp3WY9zxr9QpR4NdmIF0EM

 

[Sooter76]

If they start making K31's again, maybe there's a silver lining...

 

[zfk55sr]

I wish, but........... Haemmerli closed it's doors some years back and my old friend in Bern told me that to retool again would place these rifles at nearly $1,800.oo apiece. They were last made as a private run sometime in the late 50's. Haemmerli made them for Bern during the war years as Bern couldn't keep up with the demand. The tooling for the k31 is long gone from Bern, and the real difficulty in reproducing them today for anything near an economic price is that those barrels and the receiver are a RH factor of 48!! Nearly twice as hard as the Garand was made.

 

[zfk55sr]

Is it true that the "anti-rifle" women of Switzerland led the winning vote ?

Yes, but they were , in the main, French speaking Swiss and in the French leaning Cantons.......... "Women of the EU", or so they call themselves.

 

[wigwamitus]

... Were are the Viking hordes when you need them? ...

Weren't the "FRANKS" part of the viking hordes !!??

(I realize they got somewhat assimilated by the folks who were already there ... )

 

[Sooter76]

Weren't the "FRANKS" part of the viking hordes !!??

(I realize they got somewhat assimilated by the folks who were already there ... )

No... The Franks were Carolingian/Merovingian Germanic peoples that came after the fall of the Western Roman Empire. They’re the people of Charles ‘the Hammer’ Martel who saved Europe from Muslim invasion (and probable conquest) in the 8th Century, and who ruled Frankia (France) when the Vikings came knocking.

 

[zfk55sr]

Ok, Gents. This is how it's seemingly shaking out.

Bloke on the Range
1 hour ago

A quick FAQ:
Yes, unfortunately we lost the referendum. The new law is likely to enter into force on 1 July (people have been saying 1 June, but the
Bericht des Bundesrates says 1 July).

Yes, it could have been far, far worse - initial drafts of the law were jaw-droppingly bad. Small mercies and all that...
No, this will not affect the continued existence of BotR. We will keep calm and carry on.
Yes, this will be a PITA for acquiring semiauto rifles with 11+ round magazines or pistols with 21+ round magazines in the future. Cost mostly. And having to prove you're a sports shooter (club membership or regular private range shooting, no German-style nonsense with "disciplines" though) or collector.

No, "collector" is not defined. So each canton will make it up for themselves.
Yes, buying exactly the same firearm with a smaller magazine is unaffected.
Yes, it's whether the firearms is equipped with such a magazine, not whether it's capable of receiving one.
No, what "equipped with" actually means isn't finalised (the rules contained a provision that was clearly unworkable and would have
criminalised 2 people sharing a car to the range if 1 had a 10-round Stgw 90 and the other a 20-round Stgw 90. Hopefully that
definition will go away).

No, affected firearms already acquired before entry into force are unaffected just for the moment.
No, there is no change with respect to full auto or downconversions from full auto, yet.
Yes, there's a variant of an SBR law coming in - semiauto rifles which can be folded or telescoped down to under 60cm OAL without
losing function are affected too. The wording doesn't affect fixed stock carbines that are always below 60cm OAL and doesn't seem to affect folders/telescopers which are already below 60cm OAL with the stock deployed.

Yes, this will probably result in newly-sold short rifles having their stocks fixed or a firing mechanism disconnect built in.
Yes, I have bought ahead pretty much everything affected I think I need for the channel.
No, we won't be doing a video on this until the Implementing Regulations ("Waffenverordnung") are finalised, cos there are too many
loose ends at the moment. I'm planning on doing it with Ines Elena Kessler who did excellent work as a leading light of the No campaign in the media and is part of the Kessler Auktionen family.

Yes, the EU are extremely likely to come back in a few years' time for another bite at the apple.
Yes, if you have a general question not in this list, the answer is likely "we don't know yet" because the Waffenverordnung hasn't been finalized.
Thank you for your attention"

 

[Sooter76]

I wish, but........... Haemmerli closed it's doors some years back and my old friend in Bern told me that to retool again would place these rifles at nearly $1,800.oo apiece. They were last made as a private run sometime in the late 50's. Haemmerli made them for Bern during the war years as Bern couldn't keep up with the demand. The tooling for the k31 is long gone from Bern, and the real difficulty in reproducing them today for anything near an economic price is that those barrels and the receiver are a RH factor of 48!! Nearly twice as hard as the Garand was made.

$1800 isn't cheap, but when you consider the quality of the rifle it's worth it. We've all seen less accurate bolt guns go for a similar price...

I think in a vacuum most shooters would be willing to pay that price for a rifle as accurate and quality as the K31. The problem would be that a lot of shooters would look at the surplus K31's going for $800 and balk at paying $1800 for a new one.

 

[steve123]

Or take the straight pull K31 concept even further.

I keep saying if someone would come out with a 10 round magazine tactical rifle, with assisted opening and or closing, operated by thumb and forefinger, like the 1827 Fortner, for the 6mmBR family of cartridges, these would rule in PRS or NRL.

What were looking for is the speed of a semi with the lock time of a bolt rifle, this would work. How do I know?? I have a Fortner and I've won NRL22 matches at times solely because of the platform. A point or 2 advantage is all you need sometimes!

 

[SD Carpenter]

My dad bought 3 k31's from big 5 about 10 years ago for $200 a pop... And last week he told me one of them was for me! haven't researched them yet, are they any good?

 

[Sooter76]

My dad bought 3 k31's from big 5 about 10 years ago for $200 a pop... And last week he told me one of them was for me! haven't researched them yet, are they any good?

They suck... I’ll give you $200 for it.

 

[zfk55sr]

LOL!
... and SD. I bought my first Swiss rifle in 1959, joined the service in 1960, rotated out in 1964 and been working with Swiss rifles exclusively since then. Co founder of swissrifles.com and owner of Swiss Products USA. Multiple Camp Perry winning rifles and they also hold three Guiness world records for long distance shooting. so..................
Whaddayathink? LOL

 

[SD Carpenter]

LOL!
... and SD. I bought my first Swiss rifle in 1959, joined the service in 1960, rotated out in 1964 and been working with Swiss rifles exclusively since then. Co founder of swissrifles.com and owner of Swiss Products USA. Multiple Camp Perry winning rifles and they also hold three Guiness world records for long distance shooting. so..................
Whaddayathink? LOL

Well I'm glad my dad was thinking of the future when I was 14!

 

[Sooter76]

Well I'm glad my dad was thinking of the future when I was 14!

My offer stands... ;-p

 

[YF12A]

Going through a safe yesterday and found, all wrapped up under a Garand, my K31 I bought at the Nations Gun Show, near Dulles Airport, in 2007 with the price tag still attached. End of the show day on Sunday and the dealer let me have the pick of his litter for $124.95! Also picked up a couple of 60 round bricks of the Swiss ammo for $20.00 each. The Good Old Days weren't really that long ago...

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

The Sauer 200 rifles seem to rule the speed shooting competitions in Europe and they aint straight pull FWIW.
@zfk55sr - any chance you own any of the higher end Swiss stuff - Bleiker, Grunig & Elmiger, Tanner?? I'd give one a my lungs for a Bleiker.

 

[zfk55sr]

Haemmerli, yes.......... Greunig & Elmiger also but not the other two. Those are really more collector items. Greunig & Elimiger are still in business and make both rifles and stocks for Olympic competition. Incredible stocks and incredible $$$$s

 

[zfk55sr]

BTW...... The Blaser wins about as much and they ARE straight pull. You'd never know it to look at them. The look like rotator bolt action.......... but they're not.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Nice, any chance you could post some pics of the Hammerli and G&E? G&E's Racer series smallbore rifles are super cool as well, though it looks like the Walther KK500 is what most of the top shooters are using.

http://www.gruenel.ch/sportwaffen/x-racer/

^^^This is what zfk55sr and I are talking about for those unfamiliar. Some of the finest target rifles in the entire world. In Olympic level 300M centerfire(I know it ain't in the Olympics anymore) and Smallbore, those are some of the rifles that rule the podium. Anschutz are certainly nice, but they ain't quite up to snuff with Bleiker, Walther, G&E, Hammerli, and Tanner IMO. Suppose Keppeler belongs in there as well..

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2017/01/bodacious-black-bleikers-20k-worth-of-swiss-perfection/

If theres a Formula 1 car equivalent in rifles, you're lookin at it^^^. Wish there were more of em here in the states.


On the topic of the thread, its a damn shame. Switzerland makes top notch stuff. What will happen with the Swiss Arms SG 550-series and SG 751, Brugger & Thomet's rifles/SMG's, etc? Will they keep making them?

 

[Blue Sky Country]

The only good thing that can come out of this is that hopefully, some of the statist fucks will cheer themselves so hard that their hearts give out and they drop dead right there in the middle of their celebrations.

I'll have a Coke to that. May all fucks be upon the leftist parasites.

 

[Nebulous]

The Swiss votes are in and counted. The French Cantons and French speaking Swiss have destroyed
the last country of it's kind. Swiss sport shooting and competition is officially dead. No more semi or selective mode rifles
will be allowed or manufactured. The FRIGGIN EU has won.
The details will be available before long.
Please delete if this is off base for the forum.

I just saw this today and am really glad its not nearly as bad as you are saying. I grew up in Züri and went to Knabenschiessen a number of times, would have been sad to see a shooting event with such an old history take a hit.
ill be curious as to what what my sister has to say since she still lives there and we were just talking about taking her out shooting for the first time in September when she is state side.

 

[zfk55sr]

Nice, any chance you could post some pics of the Hammerli and G&E? G&E's Racer series smallbore rifles are super cool as well, though it looks like the Walther KK500 is what most of the top shooters are using.

http://www.gruenel.ch/sportwaffen/x-racer/

^^^This is what zfk55sr and I are talking about for those unfamiliar. Some of the finest target rifles in the entire world. In Olympic level 300M centerfire(I know it ain't in the Olympics anymore) and Smallbore, those are some of the rifles that rule the podium. Anschutz are certainly nice, but they ain't quite up to snuff with Bleiker, Walther, G&E, Hammerli, and Tanner IMO. Suppose Keppeler belongs in there as well..

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2017/01/bodacious-black-bleikers-20k-worth-of-swiss-perfection/

If theres a Formula 1 car equivalent in rifles, you're lookin at it^^^. Wish there were more of em here in the states.


On the topic of the thread, its a damn shame. Switzerland makes top notch stuff. What will happen with the Swiss Arms SG 550-series and SG 751, Brugger & Thomet's rifles/SMG's, etc? Will they keep making them?

====================================================================================================


Forgetful Coyote, I have a lot of photos but none of those three rifles we have. I'll have to wait for my son to come out and take some shots for me. I have no idea how to operate that camera of his he left here, and no idea how to put them from the camera to the computer. I'm not only old school;........ I'm really old school LOL I think the last camera I operated was called Kodak Brownie?

 

[zfk55sr]

I just saw this today and am really glad its not nearly as bad as you are saying. I grew up in Züri and went to Knabenschiessen a number of times, would have been sad to see a shooting event with such an old history take a hit.
ill be curious as to what she has to say since she still lives there and we were just talking about taking her out shooting for the first time in September when she is state side.

My Distributor in Brislach CH is still sorting through it. It's complex with reams of as yet not understood subject matter. Typical EU crap. Fingers crossed that CH hasn't been Double Crossed.

 

[buffalowinter]

Nice, any chance you could post some pics of the Hammerli and G&E? G&E's Racer series smallbore rifles are super cool as well, though it looks like the Walther KK500 is what most of the top shooters are using.

Pics of my G&E, Hammerli, Tanner, et.c

Me with myGrunig and Elmiger 300m Free Rifle, .308, Internationale Matchwoche, Zurich Switzerland 1981

Tanner .22 with rare factory Electronic trigger

Tanner 7.5x55

Sauer CISM

Tanner 300m

Hammerli/Tanner straight pull

French Unique CISM

Vapenspecialisten .308

 

[Nebulous]

My Distributor in Brislach CH is still sorting through it. It's complex with reams of as yet not understood subject matter. Typical EU crap. Fingers crossed that CH hasn't been Double Crossed.

I realized I brain farted on that post she=sister. Trotez drück ich minie daumen.

 

[zfk55sr]

Tja.... Wie die Omichin immer sagt......... "Diogenes sass in Seinem Fass un sprach....." Ja ja.. Dass kommt von dass" LOL
Ausserdem........... Woher Weiss Du das Ich Deutsch spreche?

 

[Nebulous]

Tja.... Wie die Omichin immer sagt......... "Diogenes sass in Seinem Fass un sprach....." Ja ja.. Dass kommt von dass" LOL
Ausserdem........... Woher Weiss Du das Ich Deutsch spreche?

Lol
Ich glaube es war grade danach...

The French Cantons and French speaking Swiss have destroyed
the last country of it's kind...

?
Order Birslach

 

[zfk55sr]

Sag mal...........Wo lebst Du jetzt? Und wir sprechen lieber Englisch , gell?
Sorry Gents We'll speak English from this point on.......... I just asked him where he lives now.

And, Nebulous. Do you still shoot Swiss rifle competitions here in the US?

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Pics of my G&E, Hammerli, Tanner, et.c

Me with myGrunig and Elmiger 300m Free Rifle, .308, Internationale Matchwoche, Zurich Switzerland 1981

View attachment 7088994

Tanner .22 with rare factory Electronic triggerView attachment 7088995

Tanner 7.5x55View attachment 7088996

Sauer CISM
View attachment 7088998

Tanner 300m
View attachment 7089004

Hammerli/Tanner straight pull
View attachment 7089006

French Unique CISM
View attachment 7089007

Vapenspecialisten .308
View attachment 7089009

Wow, perfection. Always a treat to see your pics @buffalowinter , thank ya sir.


Unique ain't around no more is it?
Also, where is the Vapenspecialisten from? Sweden?

One more thing, which ones your favorite and/or best shooting centerfire?

 

[Nebulous]

Ich whone jetz in Florida und meine geschriebenes Deutsch ist echt schlecht geworden also English ist einfacher.
Straingly enough I'm only just getting into shooting now many years after leaving Zruich. My father-in-law wanted to take me hunting and that opended up a bag of worms. 2 years later I now almost have my first custom finished.
For now I'm still working on the fundamentals and want to maybe try out a match. Maybe at some point I'll get more specific but I still have to see where this sport takes me.

 

[zfk55sr]

Tell me about your custom.