Weight....Throw.....?????

[Chiller]

Do you weight, throw, etc?

I would like to speed the process up and still get "match" .05 grain or less. How do I speed things up? The Prometheus seems too far over the top....

How many changes is reasonable to do in 1 min?

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

Personally for the long range stuff, over 400 yards, I use my Harrell's Premium and throw just under the target weight. Then I dribble up to what I'm looking for.

Anything 300 yards and less I generally find a setting that I can just throw.

Using my Harrell's and a lot of experience, I can generally hold to +/- .1 of a grain. But don't try to do it like that if you're in a hurry. You'll just throw the wrong charge and get frustrated.

Good luck.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

Right now I throw slightly below desired charge, weigh and then trickle to proper charge. Once in a groove it's fairly quick. I do plan on getting one of the new Hornady Auto Charge throwers/scle and see if that speeds it up any.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

I use a BR30, but it throws Varget to +/- 2gr; so I set it up low and trickle back up.

But in order to get 0.5gr accuracy/precision from the scale, you are going to have to clean the fulcrum and other moving bearing surfaces each setup, use the scale at eye level, and take your time.

In order to get maximal accuracy, you are going to need a toothpick and use it to touch the platen on an upstroke (of the toothpick) and see that the scale resettles to the same measurement (as before you moved the platen), then repeat on the downstroke. So each use of the scale you are reverifying that the scale settled without binding frinction on the fulcrum or bearings. When pressed I can get 0.025 gr reliabley. But note: I only do this when verifying the edge of the window when doing OCW tuninig. The rest of the time I find 0.1gr accurate enough.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

I know of no reloading scale accurate/sensitive enough to work to .05 gr. Nor, considering normal variations in cases, would it accomplish anything. IMHO. ??

 

[Armorman]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

I like to weigh my charges. I've been using a Dillon electronic scale for years and it has served me quite well. I'll throw a charge and then trickle the rest on.....usually 0.5 grains or so to top it off. I just bought an Acculab so now I'll see if the extra $$ for the expensive scale will yield me a lower ES. It's a slow process weighing every charge but well worth it in the end if your goal is accuracy. The key is to produce consistent ammunition and by weighing the powder I know that each charge is identical to the next one.

 

[USMCj]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

CM1500

In before boltripper!

 

[Chiller]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CM1500

In before boltripper!

</div></div>

Forgive the ignorance CM1500??

 

[Chiller]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know of no reloading scale accurate/sensitive enough to work to .05 gr. Nor, considering normal variations in cases, would it accomplish anything. IMHO. ?? </div></div>

MXX-123 .02 grain....can just get slow when I am loading...

 

[Chiller]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Right now I throw slightly below desired charge, weigh and then trickle to proper charge. Once in a groove it's fairly quick. I do plan on getting one of the new Hornady Auto Charge throwers/scle and see if that speeds it up any. </div></div>

Want to hear how well this works...have seen on a Chargemaster as much as .2 grain from setpoint.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

My expieriences with PACT electronic scales has been worse in that they were up to a full grain off. That is why I haven't used one in years. I stuck with the old balance beam and it works. After playing with and checking out the Auto Charge at SHOT I was pretty impressed so I'm going to give electronic scales another chance.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My expieriences with PACT electronic scales has been worse in that they were up to a full grain off. That is why I haven't used one in years. I stuck with the old balance beam and it works. After playing with and checking out the Auto Charge at SHOT I was pretty impressed so I'm going to give electronic scales another chance. </div></div>

Would love to hear results.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The Prometheus seems too far over the top....

</div></div>

My newly aquired Gen1 Prometheus is accurite to 1 kernal of Varget, the Gen2 is 1/3 of a kernal, there fast accurite and highly repeatable, not bad for a hand built balance beam scale, I still have my Chargemaster, but I suspect I will sell it or let it collect dust.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The Prometheus seems too far over the top....

</div></div>

My newly aquired Gen1 Prometheus is accurite to 1 kernal of Varget, the Gen2 is 1/3 of a kernal, there fast accurite and highly repeatable, not bad for a hand built balance beam scale, I still have my Chargemaster, but I suspect I will sell it or let it collect dust. </div></div>


At a $1000 I would consider it. At the $3000 it is out of my league. Would love to have one…

 

[USMCj]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

CM1500 = Chargemaster 1500.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CM1500 = Chargemaster 1500. </div></div>

I am using one with a MXX-123 shooting it through a 35P I can get SD in the low single digits. Just want to do it faster.

 

[4Rail_Gunner]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you weight, throw, etc?

I would like to speed the process up and still get "match" .05 grain or less. How do I speed things up? The Prometheus seems too far over the top....

How many changes is reasonable to do in 1 min? </div></div>

Well I don't know how you are doing it now, but there is no scale that will be fast and give you .05 other than the Prometheus.

What I currently do is Setup my charge master .1 grain lower than what my desired charge is then trickle to proper charge on an Acculab VIC-123.

This way I do 20 rounds per 15 minutes including press time.

I only have one pan, so I wait on the chargemaster to get done running then set the pan on the Acculab.

I am going to change things up and get 2 metal pans and make them the same weight. So the chargemaster can be running while I'm trickling powder on the previous charge.

Still in the works though.

 

[Jim the Plumber]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

Crap, I'm way out of touch. I just run my match ammo on my Dillon 550 and use Hunter.The benchrest guys are using thrown powder for at least out to 300. What method does Black Hills, Federal etc use to load their match ammo?

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

I throw with a Harrels Premium and verify with a Scale. Goes pretty quick and good to 1k.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I throw with a Harrels Premium and verify with a Scale. Goes pretty quick and good to 1k. </div></div>

Do you throw light and then trickle?

Trying to have one load in that during a comp I will see anything from 200m to 6-700y.

 

[4Rail_Gunner]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

Your just going to 700 yards and your worried about .05 grain accuracy?

.1 grain with an OCW Load should be more than enough for a 700 yard shot.

I weigh all my loads as accurate <.05 as I can since I never know if I'm going to shoot at 100 yards or 1000yards.

I would bet the fastest way is what wnroscoe is doing, taking a very good powder dump, droping it into the pan, then measuring and loading.

 

[Mag 300]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

slow but accurate i am usung a acculab vic 123

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know of no reloading scale accurate/sensitive enough to work to .05 gr. Nor, considering normal variations in cases, would it accomplish anything. IMHO. ?? </div></div>

MXX-123 .02 grain....can just get slow when I am loading... </div></div>

 

[rksimple]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

Dang. I'm slummin' it straight from a Chargemaster and do fine at 1k. Vertical is less than .5 MOA at that distance. Inside 700, you won't tell a difference at all.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

I do not know how far I am going to need to shoot when I load. I weigh them all. Where do you get a promethus scale?

 

[i_Adam_i18]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do not know how far I am going to need to shoot when I load. I weigh them all. Where do you get a promethus scale? </div></div>

Good luck is all I can say. Well that and a bunch of money.

 

[Mag 300]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

Kind of the same thing here use a redding BR thrower to get close with each and trickle to get witin .02 grains
at least this way I can eliminate the powder measure in that I cannot get much more accurate.
concentrate on neck compression, flash hole size and seating depth

Bill

 

[Unsichtbar]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

You can speed up your drop and weigh process by putting a peice of soada straw in the power measure drop tube to allow you to drop charges directly into scale pan. Link below
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/smallprojects.htm scroll down

Improved Sinclair Powder Measure Drop Tube

"Here's how to throw charges directly into a scale pan without spillage. I have my powder measure equipped with a clear drop tube from Sinclair mounted over the bench so the end of the drop tube is about 1 1/2 inches above the scale pan. You must make a small modification to the drop tube to slow the powder down and eliminate spillage. Cut a strip of clear hard plastic from common packaging material (bubble pack) slightly wider than the inside diameter and 3 inches longer than the drop tube. Hold the ends of the strip with pliers and heat it with a hair dryer or heat gun. Just before it melts, but while it is pliable, twist the strip 2 to 3 complete turns and let it cool. Insert the twisted strip in the drop tube and trim to length. Use the small end plug and you will find even long tubular powder no longer bounces out of your pan!"

 

[steve123]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you weight, throw, etc?

I would like to speed the process up and still get "match" .05 grain or less. How do I speed things up? The Prometheus seems too far over the top....

How many changes is reasonable to do in 1 min? </div></div>

I use the "throw low" method and use my fingers to put the rest of the powder into the balance beams pan.I've found it quicker to ditch the trickler!!!

After a while you instinctively know how much powder to grab without even thinking about it.You know...just like the recurve bow shooters do "instictive muscle memory".Then just sprinkle the rest by moving your fingers back and forth dropping the few granules needed.I don't worry about "one" granule/kernel of powder anymore.That really speeds the process up and I usually get it within a few anyways.

Also for some reason this method works better with a balance beam.There's just something about seeing how far away you are from the pointer lines being lined up.

Try it and you'll see.

Steve

 

[308sako]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

deleted in protest!

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

Chiller,

You didn't mention the caliber or powder but if you havent done an OCW test, you should. I think you'll find that a tolerance like .05gr is a PITA to obtain and completely useless. You will never see that on target or through your chrono. Things like neck tension and primers will swallow any error you might have seen from the charge weights.

I shoot a .260 mostly and throw H4350 straight from a Harrell's in to a pan to be weighed. 3 of four charges are usually right on, and i shoot for a .3gr window(.1 on either side). Having a load that is not ultra sensitive will allow a tolerance in charge weight. That will allow you to throw straight from the measure and save you a ton of time.

I recently ran out of H4350 so I did an OCW test using R17. These were fired round robin at 535 yards. Should be easy to stay inside either node because they are big.
http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n68/Supersubes/?action=view&current=ladderimage.jpg

 

[68GT]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do not know how far I am going to need to shoot when I load. I weigh them all. Where do you get a promethus scale? </div></div>

If you are serious about the Prometheus, I know of a Gen I that may be available...

 

[Enios]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

Well I haven't tested our scales in a long, long time. I ran up 150 loads for the 243 and 50 for the 308 in the last couple of days. I double checked each load against my 10-10's and the most variance I saw the white line on the arm might be just above or just below the 0 line but still touching. Can't be much better than that. When we first got these year before last we calibrated on about every load session and double checked loads all the time. Can't even remember the last time I did that and unless something strange happens doubt I will ever do it again! I just wanted to be sure they are as good as I think they are because of the questions I've seen on them lately. Go to midway and see what everyday people have to say on them. Think there is way over a 100 reviews and most all of them are 4 or 5 stars....

I think it's fair to tell what powders they were since they all meter pretty well.....IMR-4831, AA2520, and H100V. Long stick powders have a habit of overdraws because a lot of powder will bunch up in the tube....Somewhere we found a tip about using a piece of a Micky Dee's straw in the tube and that helps a lot, clip off about 3/8" and stick in the end of the dribbler. A little scoop to dip some works well but I've found after a long time of using these things I can pinch what I need to take out with out much problem at all.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Weight....Throw.....?????

I use the Dillon measure and set it up to throw consistently heavy.

I then pinch some out of the scale pan and hand-trickle some back slowly enough to catch it just as it rolls over to the proper tenth grain.

There's only the one source of powder to deal with, and after some time and practice, you can get pretty accurate and quick at making the proper weight.

Excess goes into a small container, like a plastic tartar sauce cup. Fastest method I've found to get it within a half a tenth.

I check my work by accumulating ten charges and dividing the total weight by one decimal. Average charges work out according to this to within .02-.03gr.

Greg