PRS Talk Welcome to the Camps.... Don't buy a PRS membership

[Nightraider]

I was witness to a fearful thing tonight by the newest PRS owner. Tonight he probably killed the club matches for new shooters and silenced anyone that voiced an opinion that carried any weight.

Tonight the new owner laid down a ruling that you have to be a member to shoot any 1 day match in the SE region. While some might understand the ramifications of this others might not. This ensures that you will not shoot a PRS match without paying money to an organization that does nothing for you as a shooter, other than charge you money to shoot a match with their banner.

Ryan Castle was in opposition to this and was vocal about it, to which his comments were deleted and muted. In fact anyone who is in opposition to something the current owner says, is banned, muted, or deleted.

Before the PRS was a "thing" there were still matches, there were still sponsors, there were still shooters. Do not be bullied by this new admin into believing that you have to buy into their club.

The new owner is trying to bully members into a Gestapo type arena where opposing thoughts and comments aren't allowed. I would highly sugguest to by pass all PRS matches this year or until the point is made that you can't dictate a hobby.

NR

 

[CV_Ag]

I started shooting local club matches in mid 2018. Loved it! Really got shooting a lot and even branched out to other club matches and a 1 day larger match. I was an RO at the PRS finale where the shooters were nothing but grateful. By the end of 2018 I became more and more aware of all the drama surrounding the PRS. So as a “new shooter”, I have very little interest in joining or much less supporting. I love to shoot, and ill continue to do so, but I hate drama. It’s got to stop. It’s taking the fun out of it.

 

[PTPATAW]

They probably should have picked someone less popular to fuck will. Ryan has a following about the size of the PRS lol

 

[Dthomas3523]

I made a few comments on how to possibly up revenue by more than the $40 per person, without charging up front fees. Upfront fees turn people off.

I wasn’t met with any hostility, but they definitely did not like any input. Very much a their way or the highway and a if you don’t agree, you’re against us mentality.

Seems like they have disabled commenting on the topic already. Oh well.

Making one of the first things you change is charging an up front fee is not wise marketing.

I totally understand their need to increase revenue, but there are many, many more creative ways to go about it that seem less upfront and would actually generate more revenue.

They should probably seek out some professional marketing or pitch man service. This one isn’t going so well.

 

[Dthomas3523]

My suggestion was along the line of having match directors increase whatever their match fee was by say $10.

If someone has paid for a membership and has their member card, you get a $10 discount per match.

Once you attend say 6 or 7 matches, you automatically become a member.

Or you can purchase membership at $40.

Give people options to shoot a couple and save some money, while also giving them a membership once they almost doubled it. As they were likely a shooter unsure if they would shoot a lot and then got hooked.

And give an incentive to pay for the membership if you are going to shoot more than four matches.

Also, you don’t turn off shooters who happen to be in the area to shoot. They may be less likely to fork over $40 just to be able to attend. They mentioned the MD can waive being a member for new shooters or something like passing through.

Including it in the match fee would ensure you get any travellers still add a little to your pot and you have zero confusion or arguements that an MD let this guy shoot without a card, but not that guy.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Look at the free to play gaming model. It crushes the old pay up front model.

Charge 9.99 for a game on your phone, nope.

Give it away and put in micro payments to get gear faster......people spend hundreds. I’ve been a victim of it myself.

 

[Turner421]

The prs is turning into a rich man club. Full of a bunch of snobs!

 

[GrandpaDeadLegs]

A painful evolutionary step for the classic shooter, hell bent on Scrooge life, never forking over more than wholesale. And for damn sure not paying money for an enjoyable experience outside of the wholesale cost of the actual supplies that they actually consumed themselves.

Pay for a national organization that could potentially increase the flow of money and people into the sport?

Fuck that! Doesn't. Help. Bubba. Immediately.

How's he gonna neckbeard all the ammo and good mags AND pay for events? Not fuckin possible....

Why is PRS drama?

Cuz when you win you get to say you are earths number one sniper lol that's easy

 

[Dthomas3523]

The prs is turning into a rich man club. Full of a bunch of snobs!

I wouldn’t go that far. Though it’s starting to get big fish in small pond syndrome.

There’s business models out there already for this kind of thing that are successful. Unfortunately, they are looking to reinvent the wheel and/or go with what seems easiest at this very moment.

I believe they have good intentions, and I agree with them in the fact there are overhead costs that need to be paid.

 

[LH_Gina]

@Dthomas3523 your idea, or the phrasing of it, does sound like a good approach. We used to do something like that at our club a few years ago when the range we used charged more for non-range members.

 

[Dthomas3523]

@Dthomas3523 your idea, or the phrasing of it, does sound like a good approach. We used to do something like that at our club a few years ago when the range we used charged more for non-range members.

It’s a common strategy.

Humans are weird when it comes to things like this.

They balk at paying less because it’s up front, but they spend the same or more over time.

You can charge $10 and then change the price to $9.99 and sell twice the amount you were selling.

The only reason I’m getting from them when I have suggested it is “that’s too hard.”

Ironically, they would likely take in more revenue, whilst receiving less pushback from the community.

 

[GrandpaDeadLegs]

See now if I was MD and wanted to make some real money.... Food and beverage service on site fully staffed and delicious will get literally all of Bubba's money

 

[ForgeValley]

I cannot understand the bitching about giving $40 to an organization that if properly funded can do better things for our sport\hobby. If you want to shoot some kind of match not under the auspices of the PRS then go out and organize it and do it. If there were matches\sponsors\shooters before the PRS was a "thing", then just go back to that, nobody is forcing you to shoot a match that has a PRS banner.

Maybe if the PRS was better funded, they could do something for the sport more than in your words, "charge you money to shoot a match with their banner."

Instead of bypassing PRS matches this year, I will be shooting as many as possible, thanks.

 

[Mormegil87]

Apparently people feel that the MDs, regional series organizers and the PRS leadership should donate their time.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

How about IF you are not a member of the PRS and shoot a PRS sanctioned match:

1. Your score and competition placement does not count?
2. You waive your eligibility to receive any item from prize table and/or prize drawings?
3. Your squad will be only non PRS members?

All of those should be easy to adhere to by non PRS members since they are "Only in it to shoot and hangout".

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[GrandpaDeadLegs]

Oh man it would cost money just to track the different people PRS vs non-member !

 

[ForgeValley]

How about IF you are not a member of the PRS and shoot a PRS sanctioned match:

2. You waive your eligibility to receive any item from prize table and/or prize drawings?

Shit just got real.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I cannot understand the bitching about giving $40 to an organization that if properly funded can do better things for our sport\hobby. If you want to shoot some kind of match not under the auspices of the PRS then go out and organize it and do it. If there were matches\sponsors\shooters before the PRS was a "thing", then just go back to that, nobody is forcing you to shoot a match that has a PRS banner.

Maybe if the PRS was better funded, they could do something for the sport more than in your words, "charge you money to shoot a match with their banner."

Instead of bypassing PRS matches this year, I will be shooting as many as possible, thanks.

That’s why my suggestion was a higher match fee for non members.

There’s a decent amount of one off shooters out there. Having an upfront cost dissuades them.

I’m in complete agreement they need to make sure they produce enough revenue to keep the website up and other things.

I just think there are better and more creative ways to do it than charge upfront.

 

[Tx_Aggie]

I cannot understand the bitching about giving $40 to an organization that if properly funded can do better things for our sport\hobby. If you want to shoot some kind of match not under the auspices of the PRS then go out and organize it and do it. If there were matches\sponsors\shooters before the PRS was a "thing", then just go back to that, nobody is forcing you to shoot a match that has a PRS banner.

Maybe if the PRS was better funded, they could do something for the sport more than in your words, "charge you money to shoot a match with their banner."

Instead of bypassing PRS matches this year, I will be shooting as many as possible, thanks.

I have to agree. 3-gun nation uses a similar model, a required $45 annual membership to register for 3GN sanctioned events, and it doesn't seem to have hurt them at all (though around here a 3GN club match registration fee is about 1/2-1/3 the cost of a PRS Club series match in this area).

The prs is turning into a rich man club. Full of a bunch of snobs!

If you add up the cost of even an entry level rifle, match fees, and ammo (even if you reload), it is an expensive hobby. There's no way around that that I can see, other than shooting something like NRL22 instead of centerfire matches. Even doing PRS style matches "on the cheap" is pretty damn expensive compared to any other action shooting sport.

Compared to the cost of shooting a couple of club series matches a year, a $40 membership fee is a drop in the bucket. I spend that much in gas driving to and from a match. It's less than a guy starting out will spend on two boxes of commercial match grade ammo...

 

[uncoffeed]

If it's a PRS Regional match, why should folks not be members of PRS? If the local MD doesn't want his/her match to require PRS membership, that MD doesn't have to hold a PRS match. That MD can hold an unsanctioned match.
More members shooting more PRS matches means the organization can provide more benefits. I don't see the problem, unless PRS fails to provide more. Simple economics.

 

[Tx_Aggie]

That’s why my suggestion was a higher match fee for non members.

There’s a decent amount of one off shooters out there. Having an upfront cost dissuades them.

I’m in complete agreement they need to make sure they produce enough revenue to keep the website up and other things.

I just think there are better and more creative ways to do it than charge upfront.

That's a great idea.

Flip it and give the impression that members are getting a discounted match fee compared to non-members. Many of the guys who would have balked at paying the required membership are likely to voluntarily pay it in the hopes of saving a little cash. And anyone who would've registered anyways would still do so.

 

[ForgeValley]

That’s why my suggestion was a higher match fee for non members.

There’s a decent amount of one off shooters out there. Having an upfront cost dissuades them.

I’m in complete agreement they need to make sure they produce enough revenue to keep the website up and other things.

I just think there are better and more creative ways to do it than charge upfront.

Absolutely. If I want to shoot as a non PRS member, charge me $10 more, or $20. Let first time guys shoot for free, squad them up with mentors. This isn't rocket science. Put a stop to the drama and prima donnas.

 

[Dthomas3523]

[QUOTE="Dthomas3523, post: 7448246, member: 119449"
I just think there are better and more creative ways to do it than charge upfront.

Sounds like a PITA, and an unnecessary one. KISS.[/QUOTE]

Most things worth doing or successfull are a pain in the ass unfortunately.

 

[uncoffeed]

Absolutely. If I want to shoot as a non PRS member, charge me $10 more, or $20. Let first time guys shoot for free, squad them up with mentors. This isn't rocket science. Put a stop to the drama and prima donnas.

It's a PITA. Stick to KISS. Why put the extra strain on the PRS and its MDs? If they want simple and "mentory" matches, they can do that without the PRS name. If folks want to shoot PRS, they've got to jump in sometime.

 

[uncoffeed]

Sounds like a PITA, and an unnecessary one. KISS.

Most things worth doing or successfull are a pain in the ass unfortunately.[/QUOTE]

Woops. I deleted that post to address two in one. Ended up making it look stupider. My bad.

 

[lash]

I cannot understand the bitching about giving $40 to an organization that if properly funded can do better things for our sport\hobby. If you want to shoot some kind of match not under the auspices of the PRS then go out and organize it and do it. If there were matches\sponsors\shooters before the PRS was a "thing", then just go back to that, nobody is forcing you to shoot a match that has a PRS banner.

Maybe if the PRS was better funded, they could do something for the sport more than in your words, "charge you money to shoot a match with their banner."

Instead of bypassing PRS matches this year, I will be shooting as many as possible, thanks.

Yeah, but thanks to this ruling our club will likely NOT be hosting the two 1day PRS club matches we had planned. We are not in this to make money and the majority of our shooters are local non-PRs members. It’s not likely that we will make them pay more just that they can shoot matches that they already shoot when they have time.

DThomas’ suggestion:

My suggestion was along the line of having match directors increase whatever their match fee was by say $10.

If someone has paid for a membership and has their member card, you get a $10 discount per match.

Once you attend say 6 or 7 matches, you automatically become a member.

Or you can purchase membership at $40.

Give people options to shoot a couple and save some money, while also giving them a membership once they almost doubled it. As they were likely a shooter unsure if they would shoot a lot and then got hooked.

And give an incentive to pay for the membership if you are going to shoot more than four matches.

Also, you don’t turn off shooters who happen to be in the area to shoot. They may be less likely to fork over $40 just to be able to attend. They mentioned the MD can waive being a member for new shooters or something like passing through.

Including it in the match fee would ensure you get any travellers still add a little to your pot and you have zero confusion or arguements that an MD let this guy shoot without a card, but not that guy.

This would absolutely work. We already do that for club members vs non-club members. In the other hand, if you tell me that I must become a PRs member just so that I can shoot in my local match, then you can pound sand.

Yeah, sure, this will open up registration for PRs members to make sure that the local yokels don’t compete for spots in these matches...can’t have that now, can we?

Shit just got real.

Right. Because the PRs was responsible for providing those prizes? Not bloody likely. Your attitude is exactly what has been the problem with PRs up until this point.

 

[Raufoss]

I don't see the issue with paying 40$ to be member of an organization.

Wtf is wrong with people. We spend thousands of dollars in gear and cry for 40$ or even 120$ a year?

My take is if your not happy with that gtfo and stop complaining.

 

[lash]

It sounds to me like this just opens the door back up for competing leagues for those that cannot see the advantage to being a PRs sponsored match, MDs included.

 

[ForgeValley]

It's a PITA. Stick to KISS. Why put the extra strain on the PRS and its MDs? If they want simple and "mentory" matches, they can do that without the PRS name. If folks want to shoot PRS, they've got to jump in sometime.

Strain? I took an uber the other day and watched on my phone as the guy pulled up in front of the hotel, and voila, there he was. I knew where he was from, what his name was, what his car looked like. I ran a local 10k the other day, put on my a tiny local running club, and they handed me a little tracker doolie that followed me the whole way and recorded my time. It's the 21st century. maybe if the PRS was funded they could leverage a little technology to make things better.

 

[lash]

I don't see the issue with paying 40$ to be member of an organization.

Wtf is wrong with people. We spend thousands of dollars in gear and cry for 40$ or even 120$ a year?

My take is if your not happy with that gtfo and stop complaining.

You don’t get it, do you? It’s not about the money, now is it?

You sound real inclusive with your gtfo attitude. Sounds like I really want to be part of that! (Sarcasm)

 

[Dthomas3523]

@lash

Yep, humans are like lobsters. Throw us in boiling water and we jump out and take our $40, slowly turn up the heat and we’ll spend $80 instead of $40

 

[LH_Gina]

Currently, this decision doesn't affect me one way or the other. I mean, the SW only has two clubs currently submitting scores to the PRS and those matches aren't anywhere nearly as well attended as the ones in the SE. I already paid my NRL dues including the addition of the BWRS dues and we probably won't have but one BWRS match in the SW in 2019. I'll do the same for the PRS/Regional series dues knowing full well that I can't get into the finale through a regional series. As an MD, I was vehemently opposed to the $2 per score proposal last year because those funds came out of the clubs coffers. I've always understood that the PRS needed to bring in more money. Just like an org on a club level does. I wanted to know where the money was going and what we were getting in return. I don't think I ever got an answer for the $2 score fee. At least with this $40 fee (that is discounted if you purchase an annual membership at the same time as a regional membership just like the NRL/BWRS membership is done), I can see a return on the investment in the way of discounted products that only members can access. At any rate, as a shooter I'll pay the annual fee because just like the main series, I want my scores tracked to see where I stack up nationally and within my region. Also, I might be a little too competitive for my own good.

 

[ForgeValley]

Right. Because the PRs was responsible for providing those prizes? Not bloody likely. Your attitude is exactly what has been the problem with PRs up until this point.

I doubt my attitude has anything to do with the problems of the PRS. My point was that there is to much focus on the prize table. I've never taken anything from a prize table. I shoot for the love of shooting and I'd support getting rid of the whole damn concept of 'prizes'.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

For those of us already active with the PRS, the money isn't going to be an issue - an extra $20 on top of the $100 PRS membership is a TINY drop in the bucket compared to match fees, travel expenses, etc.

For the new guy that wants to bring out his RPR with a $600 scope on it to his first match, hearing that he now has to pay $40 to a national organization just to be able to sign up for a $75-100 one day match... suddenly that new shooter is a lot less inclined to sign up for a match just to try things out. What does that brand-spankin'-new competitive shooter gain from paying $40 for an annual membership, especially if he's not even sure he's going to do this more than once?

You're also putting MDs in a tough spot - they're being forced to turn away new shooters that aren't willing to pay the extra $40 just to try out a match, or drop their matches from the regional series (and risking alienating the existing shooters that want regional points) to be more welcoming of new shooters.

Edit: Also, what about the casual match shooters that don't care one jot about regional standings, tracked scores, etc. and show up to shoot one day matches for fun? How many of them will shell out $40 a year just to shoot a couple matches? Some of them may look at the discount deals you get and see getting their money's worth.... but some may not care about those discounts, and decide it's no longer worth it.

 

[5RWill]

My thing is for me right now, it’s a waste i rarely have time anymore to shoot matches. So the occasional one i might get in a year isn’t worth a continual $40 annual membership to me at the moment, especially considering interest. I like Dthomas’ idea it might be the same principle ultimately and either way they get their money but there are no commitments. Which truthfully is more accommodating to newcomers. $40 isn’t that much in the grand scheme of things but i think it comes across as an another expense on a mountain of what is already a hobby teetering on being more expensive than golf. Which is absurdly expensive.

I’ve often wondered the cost required to put on a PRS match. I don’t honestly know but i have 3-gun guys that think it’s not as much as 3-gun because of expendebles and that makes sense to me. Of course there is the appropriation of land required for PRS type matches.

I see both sides but the way it’s being announced is rather rough as far as the PRS’ perception is concerned. I mean in the light of opposing opinions being silenced.

 

[lash]

I doubt my attitude has anything to do with the problems of the PRS. My point was that there is to much focus on the prize table. I've never taken anything from a prize table. I shoot for the love of shooting and I'd support getting rid of the whole damn concept of 'prizes'.

I agree. While I have attended some large matches where there were large prize tables, and have even walked them to take home something, all the other matches that I shoot are for the fun and competition only.

On the other hand, I do know that the concept of prizes/stuff being available at a match does draw people. Otherwise we would not have seen so much contention and anger over methods of handling those prize tables. For some it is a very big deal and one that cannot and should not be ignored, however difficult it can be at times.

 

[ForgeValley]

Here is the announcement in it's entirety. Gestapo tactics? Bullying? Killed the matches?

Red highlighting is mine.



SE Shooters,

For the past few years the SE region as lead the way and been the example for the country for Precision Rifle Competition. We are bigger, undivided, and have a large shooting base because of these factors. The growth because of organization/MD leadership has led to the rise of the best venues/matches to travel and compete at.

Each year at the SE finale the MDs get together to discuss the way ahead for the SE. We want to continue to lead from the front and had a small void last year without a SE director. A topic that came up as I assumed leadership of the PRS was requiring PRS regional membership ($25-$40) to better support the MDs/Matches/PRS SE Region. While I think is the right thing to do, I also had some reservations. I didn’t want to come in with too many changes, just updates that were needed for 2019. We also wanted things to be the same across the nation. I was convinced otherwise due to our great MDs and strength as a region.

As many of you have heard, for the 2019 Season the SE Region will pilot a program of required Regional Series PRS Membership to compete in all SE PRS 1-day matches (does not apply to the 2 day matches in SE). All MDs have agreed to the program. Almost all have ideas to offset the cost to the shooters for an easy transition. I for one will have a free open range day on Friday, before our first SSC match at K&M. We will also host a free informal movers’ clinic on Friday from 2-4pm for those attending the match.

Other discounts and improvements for PRS members we have been advertising will assist too for any that find the principle difficult. No one will get turned away, MDs will encourage those at matches to sign up if they forget to before the next match etc. This our region, our series and we are supporting ourselves.

As the support grows so does the return. Only SE clubs will have some features that we are putting into the website. It will allow MDs to track just their club scores and internal series in addition to the PRS regional series points. The finale in VA will be better supported etc. Please let me know if you have questions. PRS memberships will be open on the 15th of this month. Thank you for the understanding and keeping the SE region as the example and leader for the rest of the nation. Shannon

 

[missed]

Your issue is over $40 ? Really?

The new group is trying to turn things around to make it better for the shooters. Do you think this all happens for nothing? It cost money to fix things. The local matches here would let you shoot a couple matches before paying for a membership to make sure you like it before paying up. 2018 I paid my membership and never got time to make a match. I have wasted more money than that on stupid shit.
If someone has an issue with this they need to have an adult conversation about it with the management. The public screaming matches, finger pointing, name calling solves nothing.

 

[lte82]

If I owned a range where club matches were held, unless PRS wants to buy it and pay me to operate it, they have exactly *zero* say in who I let pay match fees and shoot. I would imagine all other MD's and range owners feel the same way. Sorry. My land, my range, my rules. Non-members won't get their scores submitted, but outside of that come one come all.

 

[morganlamprecht]

the issue with Castle's comments are most likely due to him being in charge last year, not with what he had to say...if you just took something over would you enjoy the guy you took over from throwing comments back into the pool of people youre trying to address? doubtful...

but sure, lets get all the peanut gallery riled up...

the beauty of all this is, its Shannon's project now...he can run it as he see's fit and whether its successful or not will be on him...people dont like it, it wont succeed, its his problem to deal with...hes been pretty successful at his ventures in the past tho, so just maybe he has a plan that might work

everyone always has a better way, start your own and do it...its easy, just take all the conflicting advice from every shooter out there and cater to it all

funny thing i always see mentioned...no one ever cares about points being tracked and ranking...unless youre the guy doin the points/rankings, then you get all the questions...make a mistake on someone's percentage when they finished 50th/60 shooters, youll get calls lol

 

[lash]

Here is the announcement in it's entirety. Gestapo tactics? Bullying? Killed the matches?



SE Shooters,

For the past few years the SE region as lead the way and been the example for the country for Precision Rifle Competition. We are bigger, undivided, and have a large shooting base because of these factors. The growth because of organization/MD leadership has led to the rise of the best venues/matches to travel and compete at.

Each year at the SE finale the MDs get together to discuss the way ahead for the SE. We want to continue to lead from the front and had a small void last year without a SE director. A topic that came up as I assumed leadership of the PRS was requiring PRS regional membership ($25-$40) to better support the MDs/Matches/PRS SE Region. While I think is the right thing to do, I also had some reservations. I didn’t want to come in with too many changes, just updates that were needed for 2019. We also wanted things to be the same across the nation. I was convinced otherwise due to our great MDs and strength as a region.

As many of you have heard, for the 2019 Season the SE Region will pilot a program of required Regional Series PRS Membership to compete in all SE PRS 1-day matches (does not apply to the 2 day matches in SE). All MDs have agreed to the program. Almost all have ideas to offset the cost to the shooters for an easy transition. I for one will have a free open range day on Friday, before our first SSC match at K&M. We will also host a free informal movers’ clinic on Friday from 2-4pm for those attending the match.

Other discounts and improvements for PRS members we have been advertising will assist too for any that find the principle difficult. No one will get turned away, MDs will encourage those at matches to sign up if they forget to before the next match etc. This our region, our series and we are supporting ourselves.

As the support grows so does the return. Only SE clubs will have some features that we are putting into the website. It will allow MDs to track just their club scores and internal series in addition to the PRS regional series points. The finale in VA will be better supported etc. Please let me know if you have questions. PRS memberships will be open on the 15th of this month. Thank you for the understanding and keeping the SE region as the example and leader for the rest of the nation. Shannon

Thanks for posting this to help clear the air. For the record, I have always felt that Shannon does things right and has a good focus on how things work.

However...

Your issue is over $40 ? Really?

The new group is trying to turn things around to make it better for the shooters. Do you think this all happens for nothing? It cost money to fix things. The local matches here would let you shoot a couple matches before paying for a membership to make sure you like it before paying up. 2018 I paid my membership and never got time to make a match. I have wasted more money than that on stupid shit.
If someone has an issue with this they need to have an adult conversation about it with the management. The public screaming matches, finger pointing, name calling solves nothing.

I didn’t see much screaming or name calling, but I did see good healthy public discussion. Or maybe that’s not acceptable in a forum about long range shooting? Maybe you should take a minute to recall that it’s that same healthy discourse, sometimes including screaming and name calling, that has been considered as Shannon tries to navigate a way forward. I do not have to be in lock step agreement with something in order to participate or move forward, but I sure as hell will not be shut down by someone who thinks that public discussion is not necessary in order to move things forward in a positive direction. This means you, not Shannon.

 

[lukejr985]

I don't think the majority of shooters shoot club matches to see where or how they place in the region. At least not from my experience shooting club matches. I understand about generating revenue and paying fees Im good with that ( as i already pay for a PRS membership annually) but, no one i know is participating in the "regional series" per-say, they are committed to that particular club AL precision, KM, MPA and not worried about their placement in the region. The huge question that I would like seen answered is, what is this extra money going to? To my knowledge each MD is responsible for marketing, setting up, catering, registration of their match, with zero outside influence or help from the PRS, so what will my 40 dollar membership be used for?

 

[morganlamprecht]

I don't think the majority of shooters shoot club matches to see where or how they place in the region. At least not from my experience shooting club matches.

in my experience (as the guy who does the scores for a club region)...people care all the way up to the level they are competitive at

the middle pack club guy who isnt competitive at 2 day pro series matches and wont make the pro series finale, will say he doesnt care about pro series prs points...but he does about his club match points

the guys who arent competitive at the club level, will say they dont care about club points...but their tune usually changes when they start getting better and being competitive

"i dont care about points/ranking" sounds better than "i dont place as high as id like"...maybe not for EVERYONE...but for most, its a safety net

i get calls about points and rankings every year, all year, from all levels of shooters

ive lost count of the number of times ive heard "who cares about the prs points/ranking...just keep our regions points and call it good..."

they care, they just dont care above a level they can compete with...and i know it just isnt in our region, because i know other MDs who have mentioned the same exact thing

 

[lukejr985]

in my experience (as the guy who does the scores for a club region)...people care all the way up to the level they are competitive at

the middle pack club guy who isnt competitive at 2 day pro series matches and wont make the pro series finale, will say he doesnt care about pro series prs points...but he does about his club match points

the guys who arent competitive at the club level, will say they dont care about club points...but their tune usually changes when they start getting better and being competitive

"i dont care about points/ranking" sounds better than "i dont place as high as id like"...maybe not for EVERYONE...but for most, its a safety net

i get calls about points and rankings every year, all year, from all levels of shooters

ive lost count of the number of times ive heard "who cares about the prs points/ranking...just keep our regions points and call it good..."

they care, they just dont care above a level they can compete with...and i know it just isnt in our region, because i know other MDs who have mentioned the same exact thing

I agree with that as well, because even though things are said, sometimes in their hearts they mean differently. With that being said I know the club matches that I shoot, and I know u guys do it as well, track the members scores of their particular series. Honestly I couldn't tell you if being tracked regionally moves the needle for some people, I know for me it doesn't as all I'm worried about is my placement in matches(whichever match that may be), and then that particular club series second.

All of the above is my opinion which isn't worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on, I appreciate the input it helps formulate a more well rounded opinion.

 

[morganlamprecht]

I agree with that as well, because even though things are said, sometimes in their hearts they mean differently. With that being said I know the club matches that I shoot, and I know u guys do it as well, track the members scores of their particular series. Honestly I couldn't tell you if being tracked regionally moves the needle for some people, I know for me it doesn't as all I'm worried about is my placement in matches(whichever match that may be), and then that particular club series second.

All of the above is my opinion which isn't worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on, I appreciate the input it helps formulate a more well rounded opinion.

im in the same boat as you...im there for THAT match...im not even sure ill be joining PRS or NRL this year, because matches are changing sides and splitting up and im not sure ill shoot 3 on either side...im likely just going to shoot whichever matches i want to shoot

 

[lukejr985]

I might be doing the same as well

 

[Diver160651]

I think there are a lot of ways to skin the Cat.

lash Dthomas3523 LH_Gina all brought up good points, as did a bunch of you.

I paid for a NRL22 membership only to find out after being the top shooter at our club all year, almost all the matches were not submitted. Hell while it effects me, it also effects the NRL22 guys.. I am not even a bit upset, it is just what happened. I feel that the COF and the chance to play was worth my donation.

Anyway, this does have to make economic sense. Maybe this spins back to the entire price table thing. If the Match Directors and league spent less resources trying to secure so many prices, maybe the entry could include the some of the membership fee for the first time shooter. Kinda like the new cell phone user plans.

 

[Sheldon N]

I shoot the PRS club series pretty seriously and put in effort to attend as many club matches as I can make in addition to shooting the national PRS matches. I'm not in the SE, but given that it is a pilot program that might one day make it to our neck of the woods (PNW) I do have some thoughts on it.

I worry that it could harm our local match directors, given that so many of our shooters are local guys who just want access to the nearest match where they can come have fun. They don't look at aggregate scores, many don't even bother to go set up a shooter profile on the PRS website even when it was free last year. You could lose a percentage of those guys whose entry fees help make the MD's time worth while. Many of our MD's around here are darn near volunteers even with current match fees so hurting match attendance would not be good.

I would lean towards the approach of providing incentives, rather than forcing a mandatory membership. If you could get match directors to agree, requiring two simple things comes to mind...

1) Differential pricing. PRS members get a "discount" of $5 or $10 per match compared to non-members. MD sets the match fee amounts, and would likely just raise prices for non-members, but they'd be in control of where they set those two prices. Ultimately the MD likely sees more revenue so would not be harmed by the change.

2) Preferential registration. PRS members get a 2 day advance window for registration. Oh, that match filled up before you could register as a non-member?? Maybe you should sign up for membership...

Combine this with the value add of the PRS discounts from sponsors plus any other positive plans that might be in the works (tiered classification systems with a goal for lower level shooters to achieve?) and I bet you would see a strong uptick in membership registration. The system would also likely be beneficial for the national 2 day matches. And you would avoid any potential ill will of using the leverage of the PRS organization against the MD's or shooters (perceived or otherwise).

@S.Kay

 

[Dthomas3523]

I shoot the PRS club series pretty seriously and put in effort to attend as many club matches as I can make in addition to shooting the national PRS matches. I'm not in the SE, but given that it is a pilot program that might one day make it to our neck of the woods (PNW) I do have some thoughts on it.

I worry that it could harm our local match directors, given that so many of our shooters are local guys who just want access to the nearest match where they can come have fun. They don't look at aggregate scores, many don't even bother to go set up a shooter profile on the PRS website even when it was free last year. You could lose a percentage of those guys whose entry fees help make the MD's time worth while. Many of our MD's around here are darn near volunteers even with current match fees so hurting match attendance would not be good.

I would lean towards the approach of providing incentives, rather than forcing a mandatory membership. If you could get match directors to agree, requiring two simple things comes to mind...

1) Differential pricing. PRS members get a "discount" of $5 or $10 per match compared to non-members. MD sets the match fee amounts, and would likely just raise prices for non-members, but they'd be in control of where they set those two prices. Ultimately the MD likely sees more revenue so would not be harmed by the change.

2) Preferential registration. PRS members get a 2 day advance window for registration. Oh, that match filled up before you could register as a non-member?? Maybe you should sign up for membership...

Combine this with the value add of the PRS discounts from sponsors plus any other positive plans that might be in the works (tiered classification systems with a goal for lower level shooters to achieve?) and I bet you would see a strong uptick in membership registration. The system would also likely be beneficial for the national 2 day matches. And you would avoid any potential ill will of using the leverage of the PRS organization against the MD's or shooters (perceived or otherwise).

@S.Kay

Much of this was my suggestion on their FB page.

Buck Holly took it upon himself to claim all of it is logistically impossible.

He also insenuated that the powers that be have spoken and this is how it is. I left the conversation and the group once he started throwing subtle jab insults.

 

[308pirate]

I guarantee you that "PRS" club matches will continue. They'll just be outlaw matches.

And you know what? 99.9% of those who enjoy club matches will be just fine with that.