PRS Talk Welcome to the Camps.... Don't buy a PRS membership

[Dthomas3523]

I guarantee you that "PRS" club matches will continue. They'll just be outlaw matches.

And you know what? 99.9% of those who enjoy club matches will be just fine with that.

Agreed. I’m just here to shoot. Sure, the points and seeing how you stack up is cool.

Buts let’s be real, except for those that are instructors for a living(and even then) guess what, all the top shooters still have day jobs. With some of the ego’s, you wouldn’t know it.

This is a hobby/game. Ain’t ever gonna be anymore than that as it’s not a spectacular sport.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

For those that haven't seen it, this update was posted a little while ago.

"
SE Shooters,

Thank you for the feedback both in support and in concerns in the recent membership requirement for SE 1 day matches. Many of you get it, understand how the PRS organization supports the community, MDs and the shooters in the end. This is much more then about keeping score. You know that. We appreciate your understanding of the bigger picture and how higher organizations work down to the grass roots level. The substantial majority were going to sign up anyway.

For the detractors that don’t agree with the concept but were respectful in the discussion you are appreciated as well. The illogical and emotional accusations from a few are unfortunate. But as the sport grows so does the diversity of people that make it up. The inopportune injection by some outside the SE is regretful, especially when they only chime in when there is an opportunity to be divisive, then they disappear with little or no ties to our region.

The past leadership with good intentions demonetized the Club/Regional series. He had a good heart and the resources to do so. I voiced concerns that it would be mistake in long run. Someone would have to make the organization viable again when a change over occurred. That someone is the current staff. Once something is free it is very difficult to undo.

Reviewing the proposed shooter fee that was on table when we took the reins, would have only covered ¼ of the costs for the regional series matches. No analysis was done. So, one month ago we decided to make 2019 member based for $40 with little to no issues. You want to be a PRS member, track scores, get the benefits etc. then sign up. If not, then go shoot a match.

MDs want to be part of the PRS. They support it because it supports them and is best for their matches and shooters. Funding must come from somewhere, whether it is hidden from you in match fees or a membership requirement. Or both, like many other shooting sports. Currently the PRS only generates funds through memberships. So many benefit from the organization without any support back to sustain it.

The SE MDs decided that they wanted more from the PRS and that non-members were benefiting from the organization without membership. Implementing full membership is not the wrong thing to do. It helps them help you, which helps all and is a widely accepted practice. Many other shooting sports charge fees per shooter or have membership requirements. The concept is not inappropriate, immoral or misguided. The shooters, MDs and PRS all have common goals here.

When I took over that last thing, I wanted to do was create division. That will come from others, nothing can be done to eliminate that. But we can minimize it with reasonable people that are open to understanding how things work or in this case making the organization viable (note that I didn’t say profitable). The animosity and mistruths about the PRS in that thread are comical and plain disgraceful. Once guys have their mind made up there is nothing we can do change that… and won’t try. We will be respectful and focus on the vast majority that enjoy the PRS/sport and don’t live their lives on Facebook. The sport will continue to grow regardless of the a vocal few sitting on the keyboard.

For 2019 the SE membership will NOT BE REQURIED to shoot 1 day matches as posted yesterday. Instead it will be like the rest of the country (PRO Membership $100, regional membership $40 or combo for $125). THERE ARE NO MEMBERSHIP REQUIREMENTS TO SHOOT ANY MATCHES UNLESS THEY ARE THE REGIONAL OR PRO SERIES FINALES AS THE RULES STATE.

I have to balance out division and creating an organizational structure that is viable. Today I have chosen not to support the veiled detractors’ efforts in dividing this region. We will evaluate the other changes in place during the year and revisit the organization sustainability flaws in the future. The majority of shooters and their MDs recognize that this is lost opportunity to grow and professionalize the sport in the SE. I appreciate their commitment, as little is accomplished without bold ideas. But it also will not stop our efforts to lead from the front. We will ask the MDs to increase efforts in explaining the importance of the PRS organization to their shooters, so they can see the value in what a small $40 membership fee does for all."

 

[Danrobberg]

2) Preferential registration. PRS members get a 2 day advance window for registration. Oh, that match filled up before you could register as a non-member?? Maybe you should sign up for membership...


I love this idea from Sheldon. Members should absolutely get preference when signing up for a match. Even 2 day matches if they were able to register an hour prior would help. Core sold out in 9 minutes.
If they can collect over 50 grand in membership fees I’m sure they can figure out how to make it so you ha e to have a PRS ID to sign up for a match before non members.

I also think the non members paying 10-20 bucks more for a match makes a whole lot of sense. It gives incentive to purchase a membership but if you only are going to shoot in 1 local match it only costs 10 bucks more. Maybe do 10 dollars more for a one day and 20 dollars more for a two day match along with members getting advanced registration.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Charging $40 upfront isn’t a “bold idea.”

It’s not a lot of money and shouldn’t affect anyone. Upfront fees, no matter what the cost aren’t not popular. Nor are they bold.

This idea didn’t pan out. Hopefully they go back to drawing board and rework something.

Human’s are weird. We don’t respond well to being told we have to do something.

On a positive note, good on him for realizing it wasn’t going over well and changing it. That speaks well for him.

 

[ForgeValley]

This idea didn’t pan out. Hopefully they go back to drawing board and rework something.

They have to, and they will.

People will bitch about whatever that solution is as well.

 

[kengel2]

2) Preferential registration. PRS members get a 2 day advance window for registration. Oh, that match filled up before you could register as a non-member?? Maybe you should sign up for membership...


I love this idea from Sheldon. Members should absolutely get preference when signing up for a match. Even 2 day matches if they were able to register an hour prior would help. Core sold out in 9 minutes.

I hated this back when the prs first started. The series was barely organized and I wasnt going to join to shoot one or two matches.

I think its a horrible idea for local/club matches.

For the national PRS matches and the PRS regional championships, etc. everyone should have to be a member of the PRS.

I just dont think forcing everyone at the club level to join is a good thing.

And im just a guy that hasnt shot a match in 4 years because of all the drama. Got a rifle together again and was looking to get into the club game for fun.

And no $40 isnt much, but making fun of people and oh $40 to keep the lights on comments are just driving people away.

 

[MountainHunter]

I have a hard time understanding why a $40 membership is such a divisive issue.

$40 outright to track your club series scores for the year is a hell of a lot easier on the MD's. It takes away their responsibility to collect money from each shooter and forward that on to the PRS from each match. And different match fees based on whether your a member or not is another admin pain in the ass.

The guys putting on the small 1 day matches don't seem to be making a living from it, it appears to me they do it because they have a passion for long range. I'd prefer to take any admin pain in the ass work off their plate so they don't get burned out and keep running matches for us.

$40 is a drop in the bucket and it may give the PRS the ability to implement their vision which could benefit us all, I'd just like to give them a chance.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I have a hard time understanding why a $40 membership is such a divisive issue.

$40 outright to track your club series scores for the year is a hell of a lot easier on the MD's. It takes away their responsibility to collect money from each shooter and forward that on to the PRS from each match. And different match fees based on whether your a member or not is another admin pain in the ass.

The guys putting on the small 1 day matches don't seem to be making a living from it, it appears to me they do it because they have a passion for long range. I'd prefer to take any admin pain in the ass work off their plate so they don't get burned out and keep running matches for us.

$40 is a drop in the bucket and it may give the PRS the ability to implement their vision which could benefit us all, I'd just like to give them a chance.

It’s just human psychology.

How many guys have you seen at ranges that pay the daily fee a few times a month when they could pay a 6month membership that’s cheaper?

You can(or used to, I dunno anymore) get a Netflix subscription and pay monthly, or you can pay a lump sum and save. Most people went monthly.

The examples of this are endless.

Also, as far as being easier on the MDs, I get it, and I don’t mean any offense in the following statement.

When you’re in the business of managing people, regardless of industry, when you choose the path that is easier for management (in this case, MDs and PRS staff), it is more than likely the wrong decision. Sometimes financially and almost always when it comes to popularity (and this directly influences financials).

That is a lesson I’ve learned through 20 years of dealing with people, lots of training, and countless seminars on the subject.

 

[MountainHunter]

I totally see and agree with your point and there's two other things humans tend to hate whether they admit it or not, that's change and options.

Most people are used to the way things are and will fight the change and if you give them the option they're going to fret about it.

It's new ownership/management so I'd get behind ripping the bandaid off and making the change and don't give anyone the option. In a year if they're doing a good job then anyone in the sport wont care anymore and anyone new to the sport wont know any better.

 

[LawnMM]

Hi,

How about IF you are not a member of the PRS and shoot a PRS sanctioned match:

1. Your score and competition placement does not count?
2. You waive your eligibility to receive any item from prize table and/or prize drawings?
3. Your squad will be only non PRS members?

All of those should be easy to adhere to by non PRS members since they are "Only in it to shoot and hangout".

Sincerely,
Theis

That might be great if PRS wasn't charging thousands to be "series sponsors" and all the other horseshit. They literally tally scores and collect money for the stupid giant checks that benefit the same 20 people every year.

Not saying those aren't talented shooters, I'm saying thousandS...with an S...the plural form of thousand going to a single shooter is fucking stupid.

Put that money into growing the sport, getting more people involved, a series insurance policy that could cover venues without the cash to afford insurance for a match, equipment for match directors, maybe lodging and per diem for ROs which we need way more than another stupid giant 4ft wide check.

Currently, this decision doesn't affect me one way or the other. I mean, the SW only has two clubs currently submitting scores to the PRS and those matches aren't anywhere nearly as well attended as the ones in the SE. I already paid my NRL dues including the addition of the BWRS dues and we probably won't have but one BWRS match in the SW in 2019. I'll do the same for the PRS/Regional series dues knowing full well that I can't get into the finale through a regional series. As an MD, I was vehemently opposed to the $2 per score proposal last year because those funds came out of the clubs coffers. I've always understood that the PRS needed to bring in more money. Just like an org on a club level does. I wanted to know where the money was going and what we were getting in return. I don't think I ever got an answer for the $2 score fee. At least with this $40 fee (that is discounted if you purchase an annual membership at the same time as a regional membership just like the NRL/BWRS membership is done), I can see a return on the investment in the way of discounted products that only members can access. At any rate, as a shooter I'll pay the annual fee because just like the main series, I want my scores tracked to see where I stack up nationally and within my region. Also, I might be a little too competitive for my own good.

Billy Idol gets it. More money, more fees, for what? What's it being used for?

Its getting to be like the federal government, we get "taxed" to enjoy a hobby. I can't shoot a match without being a member? Yeah, let's see how that works out. That series is a wounded animal and penalizing non members is another arrow in it's side.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I totally see and agree with your point and there's two other things humans tend to hate whether they admit it or not, that's change and options.

Most people are used to the way things are and will fight the change and if you give them the option they're going to fret about it.

It's new ownership/management so I'd get behind ripping the bandaid off and making the change and don't give anyone the option. In a year if they're doing a good job then anyone in the sport wont care anymore and anyone new to the sport wont know any better.

That’s why I think the incentive program Sheldon, myself, and others have suggested is the way to go.

I agree somewhat on people not liking a ton of options, but we absolutely hate when the only option is upfront.

Option 1: pay $75 per match (or whatever)

Option 2: pay $40 membership fee(or whatever) and you pay $65 per match.

Members get:

Discounted match fee
Free range day at a range (or whatever)
5% off participating ranges or sponsors (it’s only a $40 membership, huge discounts not necessary)
Points race
Etc etc.

 

[Dthomas3523]

They have to, and they will.

People will bitch about whatever that solution is as well.

This is why it’s not always a good idea to be 100% transparent.

What does amazon do with the money you spend on Prime? What does Comcast do with the money you spend on cable or internet? I have no clue, and don’t care as long as I feel like I’m getting something worthwhile.

Up the match fee a little, don’t tell shooters what it’s going to, as long as it’s reasonable, people wouldn’t even know what it was. Offer a little incentive to members to pay lump sum up front.

Sometimes consumers need to be fed shit and kept in the dark for their own good.

Sounds terrible saying, but it’s been proven a 100 times over.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

To compete in most working dog sports, you have to be a member. Ijs.. I get it

 

[MountainHunter]

That’s why I think the incentive program Sheldon, myself, and others have suggested is the way to go.

I agree somewhat on people not liking a ton of options, but we absolutely hate when the only option is upfront.

Option 1: pay $75 per match (or whatever)

Option 2: pay $40 membership fee(or whatever) and you pay $65 per match.

Members get:

Discounted match fee
Free range day at a range (or whatever)
5% off participating ranges or sponsors (it’s only a $40 membership, huge discounts not necessary)
Points race
Etc etc.

I'm not opposed to that idea at all, I'll likely get behind it and pay the membership fee either way.

I'm still a very new long range/match shooter so I don't have all the history but I see a lot of unhappy people who have a lot of issues with the former regime. Shannon seems to be trying to address their issues but he's getting a lot of backlash.

I think it would have been worth trying out in the south east as a test for the rest of the country. Unfortunately we won't get to see.

 

[DellaDog]

Anytime money flows “up”, those down below demand to know why. Though we rarely listen.
Just human nature.

 

[lte82]

Its getting to be like the federal government, we get "taxed" to enjoy a hobby. I can't shoot a match without being a member? Yeah, let's see how that works out. That series is a wounded animal and penalizing non members is another arrow in it's side.

Read what Shannon wrote though. If you just want to shoot the 1-day / club matches and enjoy the hobby, you don't have to pay for a membership, your scores will just not be counted in the points race. You can still shoot the matches. If you want to see your name on the leader boards, then pay the $40.

 

[5RWill]

I think noone would bat an eye at $40 if the match fees weren't so expensive relative to other shooting sports. Least i've not heard of a USPSA match or 3-Gun match costing nearly $100 to shoot. Maybe i'm misinformed? Then again i've yet to have anyone tell me what all it cost to put on a match? Honest question does it cost $9500-10000 to put on a one day club level match? I'd exclude K&M in that question because of the magnitude of the facility and Shannon is constantly expanding. I'm not pointing fingers i honestly don't know but have always been curious, because it's a primary reason my USPSA and 3-gun friends don't want to shoot PRS style matches. They find the match fees to be ridiculous.

As i said before for me with what i'm doing currently, (dental school) it would truthfully be a waste of money to pay $40 for the one match i might have time to shoot in the next 3.5 years. So i'm glad they changed it in that regard. Would suck if i got a breather and wanted to shoot at providence or the new DST range here in Jackson and was told no because i wasn't a member.

 

[MountainHunter]

Most matches around here charge $30-60 for a one day match. Typical turnouts have been 25-45 shooters. As I understand a good portion of the money goes to the range or land owner. Then you have target repair/replacement and whatever time the MD has in course of fire/prop design etc.

It's really not much money leftover for them after trophies or having a payout to the top 3-5 guys if they do that.

 

[tikanni]

Read what Shannon wrote though. If you just want to shoot the 1-day / club matches and enjoy the hobby, you don't have to pay for a membership, your scores will just not be counted in the points race. You can still shoot the matches. If you want to see your name on the leader boards, then pay the $40.

I could be wrong, and probably am, but I didn’t think 1-day matches didn’t count towards the points race. They matter just to the club series.

 

[lte82]

I could be wrong, and probably am, but I didn’t think 1-day matches didn’t count towards the points race. They matter just to the club series.

Well, yes. Club series points race, not national/regional. I definitely didn't word that as well as I could have.

 

[lte82]

Honest question does it cost $9500-10000 to put on a one day club level match?

We have one of the best attended club series matches in Texas, and it's not rare to see 50-90 shooters. Match fees are $50, so total of $2500-$4500. The land owner gets a chunk of that, say 1/3-1/2. Then you pay for literally 50 acres worth of steel targets, paint, the equipment to haul it around and maintain it (ranger, tractor, etc), the timers and ipads for scoring, water and hot lunch that is provided at every match, not to mention the time for the MD's to promote it, set it up, keep scores, etc. Even if the MD's walked away with say $500 profit, they took some financial risk to do it and put in hours to pull it off.

I'm all for MD's making money for their effort, they deserve every bit of it.

 

[DellaDog]

We have one of the best attended club series matches in Texas, and it's not rare to see 50-90 shooters....

Where in Texas?

 

[tikanni]

Well, yes. Club series points race, not national/regional. I definitely didn't word that as well as I could have.

That’s what I thought. So if that’s the way it is, what would the $40 membership fee be going towards?

General question for everyone.

 

[5RWill]

We have one of the best attended club series matches in Texas, and it's not rare to see 50-90 shooters. Match fees are $50, so total of $2500-$4500. The land owner gets a chunk of that, say 1/3-1/2. Then you pay for literally 50 acres worth of steel targets, paint, the equipment to haul it around and maintain it (ranger, tractor, etc), the timers and ipads for scoring, water and hot lunch that is provided at every match, not to mention the time for the MD's to promote it, set it up, keep scores, etc. Even if the MD's walked away with say $500 profit, they took some financial risk to do it and put in hours to pull it off.

I'm all for MD's making money for their effort, they deserve every bit of it.

Gotcha i was just curious. Lowest cost one day i've shot was $75 granted it included lunch which i was thankful for. Most of them are $95 around here though. I do think that's where the negativity of the $40 fee stems from though but i understand if that's going to the match director and not the PRS it makes sense.

 

[Tx_Aggie]

I think noone would bat an eye at $40 if the match fees weren't so expensive relative to other shooting sports. Least i've not heard of a USPSA match or 3-Gun match costing nearly $100 to shoot. Maybe i'm misinformed? Then again i've yet to have anyone tell me what all it cost to put on a match? Honest question does it cost $9500-10000 to put on a one day club level match? I'd exclude K&M in that question because of the magnitude of the facility and Shannon is constantly expanding. I'm not pointing fingers i honestly don't know but have always been curious, because it's a primary reason my USPSA and 3-gun friends don't want to shoot PRS style matches. They find the match fees to be ridiculous.

Agreed. Club matches in this area are $80-90. I've often wondered why, considering you can shoot a 3-gun match (sometime at the same range) for $40.

 

[NateVA]

Two things stood out from the series of posts by the PRS official Facebook page that disseminates this information.

1. Can a MD host an NRL22 event and still host a PRS event now? Or are they not even allowed to host NRL22 even though PRS has no rimfire events?

2. I thought it was a bit comical how they finally admitted that almost all the sponsors are not happy with the current ROI on their donated prizes. Seems like when Frank brought that up, everyone said he's just a disgruntled nobody. Big surprise.

 

[kriller134]

I don’t get why there are 2 memberships. Personally I’d much rather pay one fee that’s higher than two membership fees. Do these regional matches have a prize table or something of the sort? If they do then I would suggest that you have to be a member to be eligible. In uspsa the hosting club pays for all classifier fees to uspsa. That fee is built into the match fee. Why can’t the prs have something like that to host the scores and rankings? What your scores recorded? Join the prs and pay the match fee.

 

[lash]

Two things stood out from the series of posts by the PRS official Facebook page that disseminates this information.

1. Can a MD host an NRL22 event and still host a PRS event now? Or are they not even allowed to host NRL22 even though PRS has no rimfire events?

2. I thought it was a bit comical how they finally admitted that almost all the sponsors are not happy with the current ROI on their donated prizes. Seems like when Frank brought that up, everyone said he's just a disgruntled nobody. Big surprise.

I believe that I can answer question 1.

Many clubs that host one-day PRs series matches also host many other types of matches that are not specifically PRs affiliated. There is no rule that clubs must only host PRs matches. For example if club A decided to allow MD A to run a PRs series one day match, then that MD (not specifically the club itself) is responsible for all PRs associated fees and reporting. Next week MD B might run a local version of a long range precision rifle match that is not affiliated with the PRs series. No PRs involved in any way, just a different match.

 

[308pirate]

I think noone would bat an eye at $40 if the match fees weren't so expensive relative to other shooting sports. Least i've not heard of a USPSA match or 3-Gun match costing nearly $100 to shoot..

I can shoot a 100 target NSCA registered sporting clays tournament for $65 - $75 including lunch. And none of the targets are re-usable.......

 

[5RWill]

I can shoot a 100 target NSCA registered sporting clays tournament for $65 - $75 including lunch. And none of the targets are re-usable.......

That's the point a couple of my friends make, which is why i asked. Though again obviously appropriating land for a PRS match is more difficult in some sense than a 3-gun or USPSA match just because of the nature of the sport.

 

[lte82]

That’s what I thought. So if that’s the way it is, what would the $40 membership fee be going towards?

General question for everyone.

Pay for server / data, someone to input your scores and keep up with it, match promotion, whatever else it costs for PRS to keep the wheels turning.

 

[308pirate]

That's the point a couple of my friends make, which is why i asked. Though again obviously appropriating land for a PRS match is more difficult in some sense than a 3-gun or USPSA match just because of the nature of the sport.

Sporting clays doesn't need as much land as PRS but it needs a lot more than USPSA and probably as much as most 3 gun sites. On top of that, the infrastructure is much more capital intensive. Most clubs have 12 to 15 shooting stations, each one with at least two traps. Most commercial quality traps are $3000 and up, EACH. Yeah you get more shooters through, but still........

 

[lash]

That's the point a couple of my friends make, which is why i asked. Though again obviously appropriating land for a PRS match is more difficult in some sense than a 3-gun or USPSA match just because of the nature of the sport.

I know that in our specific case here, almost half of our match fee (per person) goes to the landowner, who is not involved in the sport, but likes money. Then a fee per person is required to be paid to our affiliated gun club. The small amount left has to cover all other costs including; paper target (printing if needed), target boards, target straps and stands, various types of steel targets that include poppers, hangers, movers and reactives, paint (lots of it), posts and bottled water. Plus anything else we find we need. There’s really nothing left over if the $50/person we charge. MDs get nothing, ROs get nothing, and no prizes or prize table.

Honestly, if it weren’t for love of the sport it’s not sustainable for less than $80-90 per person, not on any larger scale than we do, which is 15-25 shooters max.

Now, take that and extrapolate to owning or leasing the land, paying for insurances and legal requirements, paying any staff at all, providing any sort of prizes that are not specifically donated, providing a meal, drinks etc. then tell me how this could even be sustainable for $40-45 match fees.

The biggest difference is the sheer amount of land needed to run a decent rifle match of this sort. It cannot be held in your run of the mill pistol club. Land is not cheap and is ultimately the deciding factor.

How many acres do you think are needed to run a decent rifle match for 50-100 shooters? What do you think the average cost per acre for that land is?

 

[5RWill]

I know that in our specific case here, almost half of our match fee (per person) goes to the landowner, who is not involved in the sport, but likes money. Then a fee per person is required to be paid to our affiliated gun club. The small amount left has to cover all other costs including; paper target (printing if needed), target boards, target straps and stands, various types of steel targets that include poppers, hangers, movers and reactives, paint (lots of it), posts and bottled water. Plus anything else we find we need. There’s really nothing left over if the $50/person we charge. MDs get nothing, ROs get nothing, and no prizes or prize table.

Honestly, if it weren’t for love of the sport it’s not sustainable for less than $80-90 per person, not on any larger scale than we do, which is 15-25 shooters max.

Now, take that and extrapolate to owning or leasing the land, paying for insurances and legal requirements, paying any staff at all, providing any sort of prizes that are not specifically donated, providing a meal, drinks etc. then tell me how this could even be sustainable for $40-45 match fees.

The biggest difference is the sheer amount of land needed to run a decent rifle match of this sort. It cannot be held in your run of the mill pistol club. Land is not cheap and is ultimately the deciding factor.

How many acres do you think are needed to run a decent rifle match for 50-100 shooters? What do you think the average cost per acre for that land is?

Knowing land cost it makes sense, which is why i excluded K&M from that question, i get it. Is what it is, at least i now know it's not just an inflated charge due the expensive nature of the gear/hobby. Which is why i asked because i've never really seen it answered. The usual response i get from prompting that question is pointing to the gear and saying "if you can afford that, then you can afford this." Which i think is an overstatement. It's taken me literally 10 years to assemble the rifles/optics i have now (been at this since 18, still in school). I think from the outside looking in for newcomers it can certainly be intimidating financially. Which the ultimate goal is to bring in outsiders. Thank you for the detailed response Lash.

All in all there is no way around it's expense. From travel, to shooting, to match fees, it's an expensive hobby and weekend at that for a one day. We don't really have any venues though. Providence hosted a couple, and DST has a new range, but i think that's it. Glad i wont be excluded from shooting a one day this year. I do still think David and Sheldon's proposal made the most sense, because it provided incentive for paying for a membership and shooting rather than being penalized $10 or so a match and shooting, in their proposal that is. Ultimately it achieved the same goal.

 

[Cjwise5]

I was witness to a fearful thing tonight by the newest PRS owner. Tonight he probably killed the club matches for new shooters and silenced anyone that voiced an opinion that carried any weight.

Tonight the new owner laid down a ruling that you have to be a member to shoot any 1 day match in the SE region. While some might understand the ramifications of this others might not. This ensures that you will not shoot a PRS match without paying money to an organization that does nothing for you as a shooter, other than charge you money to shoot a match with their banner.

Ryan Castle was in opposition to this and was vocal about it, to which his comments were deleted and muted. In fact anyone who is in opposition to something the current owner says, is banned, muted, or deleted.

Before the PRS was a "thing" there were still matches, there were still sponsors, there were still shooters. Do not be bullied by this new admin into believing that you have to buy into their club.

The new owner is trying to bully members into a Gestapo type arena where opposing thoughts and comments aren't allowed. I would highly sugguest to by pass all PRS matches this year or until the point is made that you can't dictate a hobby.

NRView attachment 6999749

Personally I think this thread should never have been posted or at least been worded differently. Nightraider, you are a new member. Was this your first post? Did you not get the traction you wanted on the Facebook page and so you came over here to try and rally people to your side? I watched the whole thing when that post dropped and read every comment. ALL of the SE region match directors agreed on this change. Why come on here talking trash about Shannon Kay? Unless it's personal for you? This thread maybe should be deleted. Your post is borderline defamatory. You are intentionally questioning a man's character and trying to hurt his business simply because you disagree with a decision that boils down to $40! Childish and sad.

 

[Triple D]

ALL of the SE region match directors agreed on this change.

Although that was stated by a governing body social media account, I believe that has been disproven as many MD’s have said they didn’t vote on this. Had they heard that it was a possibility, yes. Did they all agree to it, no.

 

[LawnMM]

I know that in our specific case here, almost half of our match fee (per person) goes to the landowner, who is not involved in the sport, but likes money. Then a fee per person is required to be paid to our affiliated gun club. The small amount left has to cover all other costs including; paper target (printing if needed), target boards, target straps and stands, various types of steel targets that include poppers, hangers, movers and reactives, paint (lots of it), posts and bottled water. Plus anything else we find we need. There’s really nothing left over if the $50/person we charge. MDs get nothing, ROs get nothing, and no prizes or prize table.

Honestly, if it weren’t for love of the sport it’s not sustainable for less than $80-90 per person, not on any larger scale than we do, which is 15-25 shooters max.

Now, take that and extrapolate to owning or leasing the land, paying for insurances and legal requirements, paying any staff at all, providing any sort of prizes that are not specifically donated, providing a meal, drinks etc. then tell me how this could even be sustainable for $40-45 match fees.

The biggest difference is the sheer amount of land needed to run a decent rifle match of this sort. It cannot be held in your run of the mill pistol club. Land is not cheap and is ultimately the deciding factor.

How many acres do you think are needed to run a decent rifle match for 50-100 shooters? What do you think the average cost per acre for that land is?

I agree, wholeheartedly. It's why I think the sillyass giant checks at season end or otherwise are stupid. Put that advertising and member dues money towards the stuff you guys are doing. Grow it that way.

Should they be rewarded for winning? Absolutely. $10k?! Uhh no.

 

[308pirate]

Personally I think this thread should never have been posted or at least been worded differently. Nightraider, you are a new member. Was this your first post? Did you not get the traction you wanted on the Facebook page and so you came over here to try and rally people to your side? I watched the whole thing when that post dropped and read every comment. ALL of the SE region match directors agreed on this change. Why come on here talking trash about Shannon Kay? Unless it's personal for you? This thread maybe should be deleted. Your post is borderline defamatory. You are intentionally questioning a man's character and trying to hurt his business simply because you disagree with a decision that boils down to $40! Childish and sad.

Wow............

 

[NateVA]

ALL of the SE region match directors agreed on this change.

I don't think that's accurate. I know one who knew this stuff was being talked about but was never asked his opinion.

 

[tikanni]

Personally I think this thread should never have been posted or at least been worded differently. Nightraider, you are a new member. Was this your first post? Did you not get the traction you wanted on the Facebook page and so you came over here to try and rally people to your side? I watched the whole thing when that post dropped and read every comment. ALL of the SE region match directors agreed on this change. Why come on here talking trash about Shannon Kay? Unless it's personal for you? This thread maybe should be deleted. Your post is borderline defamatory. You are intentionally questioning a man's character and trying to hurt his business simply because you disagree with a decision that boils down to $40! Childish and sad.

But what does the $40 go towards? That's what I wondering. The other day, I checked Altus Shooting Solutions (Core) and they raised the 1 day match fee to $100 from $75. And I'm good with that. If I want to shoot one of their matches, I know it's $100. That is how they are covering other expenses/inflation that they had for THEIR club series. But before I can sign up for a 1 day match, I have to get a membership, that in no way seems to help the club series whatsoever.

 

[THEIS]

Personally I think this thread should never have been posted or at least been worded differently. Nightraider, you are a new member. Was this your first post? Did you not get the traction you wanted on the Facebook page and so you came over here to try and rally people to your side? .

Hi,

What in the world does him being a "new member" here or not have anything to do with him being allowed to post his thoughts?
That mindset lends itself EXACTLY to his thread title don't you think??

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Kentucreed6]

Same people crying in this thread that cry in other ones. Same shit different day

 

[Dthomas3523]

Personally I think this thread should never have been posted or at least been worded differently. Nightraider, you are a new member. Was this your first post? Did you not get the traction you wanted on the Facebook page and so you came over here to try and rally people to your side? I watched the whole thing when that post dropped and read every comment. ALL of the SE region match directors agreed on this change. Why come on here talking trash about Shannon Kay? Unless it's personal for you? This thread maybe should be deleted. Your post is borderline defamatory. You are intentionally questioning a man's character and trying to hurt his business simply because you disagree with a decision that boils down to $40! Childish and sad.

Gonna pose the same question I posed on the FB thread when it was mentioned that the MDs votes on it.......

Do you agree with everything Congress does? They take years and 500+ people who vote on it.

(And this isn’t a political question, it’s pointing out the arguement of “but it was voted on by this group” is an invalid arguement if whether it’s the right thing)

 

[Dthomas3523]

While I’m all for MDs making enough for it to be worthwhile and understand it’s a ton of work......

PRS is a busnines, and typically when you make a decision which makes things easier for a very small group (in this case MDs), over a much larger group (shooters), it’s typically not the best decision.

 

[mkollman74]

Personally I think this thread should never have been posted or at least been worded differently. Nightraider, you are a new member. Was this your first post? Did you not get the traction you wanted on the Facebook page and so you came over here to try and rally people to your side? I watched the whole thing when that post dropped and read every comment. ALL of the SE region match directors agreed on this change. Why come on here talking trash about Shannon Kay? Unless it's personal for you? This thread maybe should be deleted. Your post is borderline defamatory. You are intentionally questioning a man's character and trying to hurt his business simply because you disagree with a decision that boils down to $40! Childish and sad.

Censor much?

 

[RidiculousMetacarpus]

Personally I think this thread should never have been posted or at least been worded differently. Nightraider, you are a new member. Was this your first post? Did you not get the traction you wanted on the Facebook page and so you came over here to try and rally people to your side? I watched the whole thing when that post dropped and read every comment. ALL of the SE region match directors agreed on this change. Why come on here talking trash about Shannon Kay? Unless it's personal for you? This thread maybe should be deleted. Your post is borderline defamatory. You are intentionally questioning a man's character and trying to hurt his business simply because you disagree with a decision that boils down to $40! Childish and sad.

The group think with this one is strong.

The social desirability effect is also there.

"questioning a man's character"

Go fuck yourself, ill question anyone. Move to the fucking UK if you hate America that much.

 

[Krazy Korean]

I would like to see a maximum cost put on matches. I know people have complained about the lower costing matches being a negative for the spread of the sport, but it seems like $30 is good for the growth as opposed to $90 in the NorthEast. I understand some are private ranges and some are people shooting on others, but 3 times the price seems a bit extreme hearing about some of the others that are under $60. What is everyone else paying for match fees for a 1 day regional (club) match? Do you guys have prize tables or anything?

 

[Dthomas3523]

$50/60 is average in South Texas area. Typically includes a mulligan.

Anything lower than that is not worth it for the rangeowner or match director.

Setting up props and steel, as well as upkeep takes a bit of time

 

[_Windrider_]

I would like to see a maximum cost put on matches. I know people have complained about the lower costing matches being a negative for the spread of the sport, but it seems like $30 is good for the growth as opposed to $90 in the NorthEast. I understand some are private ranges and some are people shooting on others, but 3 times the price seems a bit extreme hearing about some of the others that are under $60. What is everyone else paying for match fees for a 1 day regional (club) match? Do you guys have prize tables or anything?

If you put a maximum cost on a match guess how much the matches will cost? Yep you guessed it they will always be the max.

 

[Dthomas3523]

No need for a maximum costs. Basic economics will take care of it.

When it becomes too expensive, the numbers will drop and so will prices.

Also, PRS it any governing league would have to do much, much more for MDs and landowners before anyone could be dictating a price cap.