Well pump/pressure switch issues - making me crazy! HELP

[Olen_4504]

I need a little help folks...

backstory: bought a house in 2015 - lived in it for 3 years. once or twice during those three years the water would quit working. FIL says "just go out and tap on the pressure switch box and sometimes it'll just start working again - sometimes it's a loose wire or the contact gets stuck" sure - okay. did that and it would work for about a year then happen again. this happened twice.

Last year I started renting this property out - I changed the pressure switch out for a new one so the renters wouldn't have to deal with the issue.

1 full year - no issues.

3 weeks ago - renter calls me and says the water stopped working. he ran the hose for a long time because he caught the grass on fire and after awhile the water wouldn't work. I figured he ran the well low and burnt the pump up. I went over, admittedly did some half-ass troubleshooting - and ended up replacing the pump myself.

1 week later - I get a call - no water. I go over there - the little "auto-start-off" lever on the pressure switch is just floppy. basically the spring/contact was bound up. whatever - I had a backup pressure switch in the house - I changed it out for the new one.

1 week later (this morning) - no water again. I go over - toggle the "auto-start-off" and it builds up pressure and starts working again. (this time the switch was functioning normally - not bound up/loose)


why would the pressure switch keep needing to be reset?

I don't know much about this stuff honestly. I had enough help from my FIL to be able to change it out but we are stumped now.

The other issue is - for whatever reason the switch and tiny ass pressure tank are IN THE WELL - as opposed to outside/under the crawlspace or somewhere easy to access. so whenever we work on it - we have to lean over the well and hang half our body in to be able to reach the switch.

I'm wondering if moisture just keeps building up and making the pressure switch trip out?

so - brand new pump, brand new pressure switch. still problems - any ideas?

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Did/Do you see any ants around the pressure switch?
They can screw up a set of contacts faster than Rosie can down a bucket of oreos.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Olen_4504]

Hi,

Did/Do you see any ants around the pressure switch?
They can screw up a set of contacts faster than Rosie can down a bucket of oreos.

Sincerely,
Theis

lol
no ants.

 

[knuckleballz]

Possible causes, bad motor starting capacitor, power going to pump may be low intermittently due to current limit from bad circuit breaker or bad connection in box or electrical feed. Have you replaced the actual motor starter contacts?

 

[Olen_4504]

Possible causes, bad motor starting capacitor, power going to pump may be low intermittently due to current limit from bad circuit breaker or bad connection in box or electrical feed. Have you replaced the actual motor starter contacts?

I'm not sure what "motor starter contacts" are or motor starting capacitor.

the only items in line - are: breaker box > pressure switch > pump

so - this afternoon i'm going to go over and check the breaker box and make sure there isn't loose wire in the panel that's making it intermittently lose power.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

If someone is in the house and runs the water while you're standing near the pump, can you hear it run or does the pump not turn on at all?

If the pump has a capacitor, there is usually a hump on the motor, like this:

 

[Olen_4504]

when the switch is working properly - everything kicks on and off normally. the pump is working. the pressure switch is just being finicky

it's one of those weird long cylindrical pumps. like this:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Zoeller-0-75-HPStainless-Steel-Submersible-Well-Pump/1000675841

 

[Olen_4504]

another thing i was just told to check:

the pressure inside the bladder in the pressure tank.

I'm being told it should be ~2lbs under the limit of the pressure switch (30-50psi). so it should be around 28psi.


I'm going to take a pressure gauge (there isn't one in-line) and an air tank over there this afternoon and make sure that bladder has enough air pressure.

this guy seems to think the switch is kicking on and off way to frequently causing it to malfunction. (which is really does - when the water is running it literally kicks on and off every couple seconds. the tank is really small - like not much larger than a basketball)

 

[Alpine 338]

I'm having a similar issue, my pressure pump is a 240V, and lately I noticed it's pumping faster, and shutting off sooner than normal. Has been in service since 2005. First problem encountered was when I went to do laundry a couple weeks ago, blew the 7-amp fuses (two fuses on each leg). Happened again next time I did laundry, and this time I noticed it only blew fuses when the washing machine is set to warm (hot/cold mix = max water flow). No issues washing hands, dishes, taking shower, etc. I did clean the relay contacts in the control box that the pressure switch controls, but didn't make a difference. I'm guessing the pressure pump is dying, and hope it can last a couple more months, as it's at the bottom of a buried cistern, that has 3-feet of snow above it.

 

[Pre-64]

another thing i was just told to check:

the pressure inside the bladder in the pressure tank.

I'm being told it should be ~2lbs under the limit of the pressure switch (30-50psi). so it should be around 28psi.


I'm going to take a pressure gauge (there isn't one in-line) and an air tank over there this afternoon and make sure that bladder has enough air pressure.

this guy seems to think the switch is kicking on and off way to frequently causing it to malfunction. (which is really does - when the water is running it literally kicks on and off every couple seconds. the tank is really small - like not much larger than a basketball)

Sounds like your pump is short cycling, when you check the pressure be sure to turn of your pump and drain the pipes, then check your pressure in the bladder.

 

[Olen_4504]

Sounds like your pump is short cycling, when you check the pressure be sure to turn of your pump and drain the pipes, then check your pressure in the bladder.

good to know - thanks

 

[Alpine 338]

Sounds like your pump is short cycling, when you check the pressure be sure to turn of your pump and drain the pipes, then check your pressure in the bladder.

So your saying the pressure tank may be failing?

 

[Pre-64]

So your saying the pressure tank may be failing?

Might have a slow leak in the bladder, once you check the pressure and get it to where it needs to be you might go 4-5 months before needing to put more air in it, if by the next couple days it's short cycling again, yep you likely be needing a new one. They aren't very expensive, $125- $150.

 

[mahlv]

If your pump is any larger than 2hp, a standard switch is not rated for that load. It’s pretty common for a psi switch like you describe is used in these instances, and they will wear pre-maturely. The short cycling is pretty indicative of a pressure tank problem. On a standard pump system like this I would not recommend any tank less than 50gallon, 80 would be more in line with a typical household with a lawn.

 

[Olen_4504]

It’s 1/2 HP pump

im not sure the size of the tank. It’s really small though

 

[mahlv]

It’s 1/2 HP pump

im not sure the size of the tank. It’s really small though

Ya can’t really have too much tank, provided you have space for it. Those switches with the trip lever on the side are garbage too btw.

 

[Olen_4504]

Ya can’t really have too much tank, provided you have space for it. Those switches with the trip lever on the side are garbage too btw.

What’s the alternative?

 

[mahlv]

There are square D switches that don’t have the lever. I’ll see if I can find one on amazon....

 

[mahlv]

I can look at the shop in a bit and get you a part number if ya want.

 

[Olen_4504]

I can look at the shop in a bit and get you a part number if ya want.

Sure thanks.
However - if it’s a pressure tank issue - a different kind of switch isn’t gonna help me right ?

 

[hollowoutadime]

You should have something like a 30 gallon pressure tank. Bigger is fine, too small and the pump cycles on and off alot - this isn't good for the pump. If there is room indoors (mine is under basement stairs), everything stays dry and clean - no dirt or corrosion). A typical switch is rated at something like 30/50psi or 40/60psi - turns on pump when the system drops below 40psi and turns off when system gets pressurized to 60 psi. The larger the tank, the less cycling of the pump.

If you have a tiny tank, those are for city water systems in homes where backflow preventers have been installed. They aren't for well systems. They allow expansion in your system caused by the water heating up in the hot water tank. If you don't have one, your T&P will pop off. You also risk plumbing damage as the PSI without one can reach 120 in your system.

Finally, if you have filters and still smelly well water, try putting 8 oz of Hydrogen Peroxide in the system and let it get into the hot water tank, that will cure the system by killing the contaminants in the plumbing and in the tank. Let it sit for 4 or 5 hours, it's harmless.

 

[mahlv]

No, it won’t fix the issue, but you’ll be replacing it again I’m betting. This is a 40-60, but you could adjust it down to 30-50 or see if there’s a similar part number.

 

[mahlv]

Is there a “pump panel”? It will have your start/run capacitors and relay all built in. I think a 1/2 hp can operate without one, but longevity of the system would improve with one. Just throwin ideas

 

[Olen_4504]

Is there a “pump panel”? It will have your start/run capacitors and relay all built in. I think a 1/2 hp can operate without one, but longevity of the system would improve with one. Just throwin ideas

i don’t think so

 

[mahlv]

 

[mahlv]

Be sure to get the correct voltage if you add one in your setup

 

[Alpine 338]

So, can a pressure tank loose air pressure over time (15-years)? If so, just repressurize it? I believe mine is a 40/60, as I recall the pressure stopping at 60-psi? The pressure switch (Square D) is not labelled. My tank says it should have a charge of 38-psi if using a 40/60 system.

 

[mahlv]

So, can a pressure tank loose air pressure over time (15-years)? If so, just repressurize it? I believe mine is a 40/60, as I recall the pressure stopping at 60-psi? The pressure switch (Square D) is not labelled. My tank says it should have a charge of 38-psi if using a 40/60 system.

Yes they can and do lose pressure. If you have a reliable guage on your system, you can confirm the cut in pressure and cut out pressure and use those to determine what psi your tank is aired up to. You can either adjust the switch to the tank, or the tank to the switch. Always 2psi less than cut-in pressure, and take the reading of the tank with system shut off and all water pressure relieved.

 

[Olen_4504]

That’s my question and hope -

can I just re pressurize it and it will be good to go for a while longer.
And if it craps out again relatively soon then I’ll know I need a new tank

 

[hollowoutadime]

They are like car tires, they loose pressure over time. Careful filling it with a compressor as if it is small, you don't want to overpressurize it. it has a sharader valve on it, probably under a small plastic cap/dust cover

 

[mahlv]

That’s my question and hope -

can I just re pressurize it and it will be good to go for a while longer.
And if it craps out again relatively soon then I’ll know I need a new tank

yes, its probably something that should be done yearly, check operation and air up the tank as needed. Yours being in the well makes it a real bitch, There is literally no advantage to that style beyond aesthetics

 

[Olen_4504]

yes, its probably something that should be done yearly, check operation and air up the tank as needed. Yours being in the well makes it a real bitch, There is literally no advantage to that style beyond aesthetics

yeah it’s stupid.

but thanks for all the help. I’ll report back tonight after I go over there

 

[Sixfivesavage]

Is this a submersible pump or a regular old open well pump? I assume just regular old pump since you say the pressure tank is in the well.

 

[Olen_4504]

Is this a submersible pump or a regular old open well pump? I assume just regular old pump since you say the pressure tank is in the well.

it’s a submersible pump - I posted a link to it a few posts back.

 

[101stinfantry]

If the bladder in the tank busts or leaks, it will essentially become a "conventional" style tank. Those will occasionally get "water logged", and need to be recharged, you won't have to replace the tank, but it will need to do that at least once per year. If you think that is what it is PM me and I'll give you the procedure for it. It's not hard.

 

[Alpine 338]

Hookedonbrass, thanks for posting this thread, and thanks to those who have responded. It has helped me out. I checked the air pressure in my tank, and it was at 5-psi. Repressurized the tank, and hopefully no more problems. The real test will be when I do laundry, but need to ensure I have spare fuses on hand, as they have to be special ordered through the local electrical supply. Not even Home Depot stocks the 7-amp fuses, only 5, 10, 15, 20, etc.

 

[Alpine 338]

Have a different type of situation here where I live. The well guys install all the pressure pumps, pressure tanks, control boxes, etc. They are licensed through the State, so the County Building Dept (Plumbing and Electical) don't get involved. The guys who installed my system, the Owner passed away, and the Tech moved to Idaho. The other well outfits are useless, unreliable, and can't give you a straight answer. The local Plumbers don't want to deal with it, and pass you back to the Well guys. Very frustrating to say the least.

 

[105gr]

Those will occasionally get "water logged", and need to be recharged, you won't have to replace the tank, but it will need to do that at least once per year.

This is false. If the bladder is ruptured the tank needs replaced. The top section of the tank above the bladder should have no water in it. Theres vids all over youtube. Watch them.

 

[Olen_4504]

This is false. If the bladder is ruptured the tank needs replaced. The top section of the tank above the bladder should have no water in it. Theres vids all over youtube. Watch them.

i would have done that anyway honestly. and probably at the same time - got a larger/more appropriate tank and relocate the whole set up

 

[105gr]

I looked and looked for the video series I watched a couple years ago and cant find it. You probably don't need a bigger tank. If I find a good video series on tanks/pressure switches Ill post a link.

 

[hollowoutadime]

i would have done that anyway honestly. and probably at the same time - got a larger/more appropriate tank and relocate the whole set up

Good move, your pump will last a lot longer. A good properly setup pump may last 20 years. My last one was running 17 years before I moved. It was used for irrigation and would run continuously for 6-10 hours a night in the summer and fall.

 

[mahlv]

I've replaced a lot of pumps around here that are around 20yrs old. Design, setup, and a little maintenance go a long ways. The death of any motor is startup and shutdown, and every motor has a finite number of starts/stops in its life. An expansion tank will reduce the number of these starts/stops by storing a certain amount of water under pressure. You absolutely would benefit from a larger tank than one designed to be around 10 gallons(?) and fit inside your well casing. The only other way to improve on this type of system is to go to a constant pressure/variable speed pump setup, they are very reliable and affordable compared to 10-15 years ago. With the crap steel pipe these days, we will not even install standard hard start pumps like these since we are forced to go with plastic pipe. Plastic pipe will torque and twist with the hard start/stop of conventional pumps.

 

[magtech]

I moved into an old farmhouse a couple years ago. Every 3-6 months I had to put air in the old tank (old gal tank from eons ago). Prior to this the previous owner had issues and swapped the motor and switch, like you did. After I put in a new bladder style tank and updated the piping I don't have any of those issues.

At our rental house we have a bladder tank there. When it failed last time ( before we noticed it) we went through switches/caps left and right trying to understand it. Once we realized that the air we were putting in the tank was a waste of time ( ruptured bladder) did we solve all our water problems.

We have a we'll pit too(. Good place for storing food). Just be glad you don't have a buried well... Eeew

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Move pressure tank and switch outside of well casing. Replace pressure tank with a normal size pressure tank.
The tiny tank is most likely your problem. Get a 15-20 gallon pressure tank.

 

[Olen_4504]

Update:

Turned the switch off, drained the Lines.
0psi reading off the tank

Filled to 28psi - turned switch back on.
Seems to be back to normal.

time will tell.

thanks everyone - not sure I would have figured that out myself

 

[Zeroit]

Update:

Turned the switch off, drained the Lines.
0psi reading off the tank

Filled to 28psi - turned switch back on.
Seems to be back to normal.

time will tell.

thanks everyone - not sure I would have figured that out myself

As usual sometimes you get solid advice and some questionable that goes for anything on the web.
I have some questions on your system? And some information on well pumps not a expert, but I sold them and installed some.
First how did you determine the kick on pressure?
If you pull off the lid and look underneath it should tell you if it's a 30/50 or a 40/60 as long as nobody has adjusted it, as far as checking the
Pressure tank yes the info was good
No pressure in the system 2 psi below the kick on. If you get water out of the valve =pressure tank is bad.
You indicated the pressure switch has a lever that is a low pressure switch
Typically ment for wells that could run out of water so you don't burn the pump up.
And the bigger the pressure tank the better as stated above good advice.
It's a system like guns everything is a factor.
You have different types,
Shallow and deep well, submersible two wire pumps actually has three wires, and one that is a three wire and actually has four wires.
One has a control box with the capacitor usually mounted on the wall
The other is built into the the motor.
Glad to see you are back and running
Didn't see your post until now.

 

[packratt]

You could also have a leak in the line to house causing pump to frequently cycle. If there is a shutoff at the tank close it. Watch the pump if it doesn't cycle you have a leak somewhere. Could be as simple as a bad valve in the toilet.