Wet tumbling brass color change after annealing brass?

[MarkJordanKaden]

I annealed 4 243 brass cases and threw them in with about 150 pieces of 40 cal brass. Now the whole batch is a dull camo brownish color. Anyone know how to fix this?....
Wet tumbled with stainless steel media, dawn dish soap, lemishine, and water for about 3 hours.

 

[240nmc]

Deionized H2O? If you used regular water, you will the discoloration. Doesn't hurt the brass just cosmetic.

 

[918v]

You forgot the soap. Lemishine alone will turn the brass to dark earth color. Soap alone will turn the brass purple. You need a balance of the two.

 

[MarkJordanKaden]

I used dawn dish soap....is there anyway of bringing it back?

This is not my first batch of wet tumbling.... it is however my first time annealing brass and making the mistake of just tossing it with other brass. Can it be reversed?

 

[lancetkenyon]

Never had annealed brass turn an entire batch brown.

Try dry tumbling them and see if that brings them back some.

 

[918v]

Nope. It's acid etched.

Are using the Thumler's tumbler?

 

[bigedp51]

Question, were there any nickel pistol cases in the tumbler at the same time?

Was the water soapy when you were done tumbling, the soap holds the dirt in suspension, if the soap is overloaded you get "ground in dirt".

A little not enough soap humor!

Ring around the Collar! 70's commercial - YouTube

 

[918v]

I tumble nickel and brass together without any adverse effect.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

You forgot the soap. Lemishine alone will turn the brass to dark earth color. Soap alone will turn the brass purple. You need a balance of the two.

Soap alone will not turn the brass purple, I've tumbled many times without lemishine as have others with no adverse affects. What will create purple spots or pink brass is too much lemishine.


*To the OP, let me take a wild guess that you are tumbling Speer 40 cal cases. Is this correct?

Your annealing is not the issue either FYI, I will anneal brass, resize it, trim, then it gets a second cleaning in the tumbler. I've annealed a shit ton of cases on my Bench Source annealer and I've never had annealing cause this.

 

[918v]

Yes it will, if you tumble long enough. I tumble overnight, and my municipal water with two tablespoons of Palmolive will turn the brass purple.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

God damn, that's some serious tumbling. Why over night? I tumble in palmolive for usually an 1.5 hours at most. I find there's really not much to be gained past that. Just curious as I will admit I've never tried for that long. I would think the lemishine would be the issue even in lower concentrations only because the acid has a longer time to work at etching the brass. Just curious.

Lemishine will turn brass purple/pink really fast if you use a lot, I had an accident once and spilled some extra and figured it wouldn't be a big deal, ran the tumbler for 4 hours and came back and was shocked at what I saw. Lesson learned.

 

[918v]

I played with the proportions for about a month. I noticed that sometimes the city adds something to the water that throws the pH off. I settled on a Lee .6cc dipper full of Lemishine along with 2 flat tablespoons (the kind you eat with) of Palmolive. The goal was to get the insides pristine. I initially tumbled for 4 hours per SSM's instructions, but found 6-7hrs better, but I don't want to get up early, so it's like 8-9hrs. Sometimes I go to work and let it run all day. No problems.

 

[bigedp51]

I annealed 4 243 brass cases and threw them in with about 150 pieces of 40 cal brass. Now the whole batch is a dull camo brownish color. Anyone know how to fix this?....
Wet tumbled with stainless steel media, dawn dish soap, lemishine, and water for about 3 hours.

How did we get from "a dull camo brownish color" to purple? Do you guys live in Colorado and use medicinal herbs or are you in a special ed reading class?

Deep Purple - Smoke on the Water - YouTube

 

[918v]

The purple color is kinda nice. It's like that black stuff Hornady puts on their TAP ammo.

 

[bigedp51]

Good God this thread is on a purple acid trip.

Jimi Hendrix Purple Haze - YouTube

 

[918v]

Tactical Purple is cool.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

I'm still curious as to what brand of cases exhibited this issue. I've had this issue with Speer 40 S&W cases, they do exactly as the OP has stated and will do it in the same cleaning batch that I have other brands of 40 cases that do not exhibit this issue. Only time I have seen the cases turn a camo brown and it does it every time I tumble the brass even after screwing with the ratios of soap and lemishine.

 

[918v]

Never had issues with Speer brass, new or old. Maybe it's your water. Have you tried tumbling Speer all by itself?

 

[MarkJordanKaden]

Yes there were some (5-8) nickle cases, they did not change color but were very clean. The brass cases in the entire tumbler turned color. Yes it was a thumbler tumbler. I do clean it out very well after each use so the water was not dirty. I will try to "dry tumble" and report back in a few hours. Thanks for all the responses.

 

[MarkCO]

It is dezincification of the brass. There are a lot of factors, and frankly I am not in the mood to argue with idiots who say it can't happen today. There are a few threads about it on BEnos. Suffice it to say, if you see the pink to brown coloration, yes you can remove that layer, but the brass now has been weakened. Pistol brass, usually not a big deal. In rifle brass, you might gets cracks and chamber damage, but rarely a casehead separation. There are several internet sources related to dezincification of brass.'

If you would like more info, please send me a PM as I have seen how these threads end up in the past.

 

[mforsch]

I annealed 4 243 brass cases and threw them in with about 150 pieces of 40 cal brass. Now the whole batch is a dull camo brownish color. Anyone know how to fix this?....
Wet tumbled with stainless steel media, dawn dish soap, lemishine, and water for about 3 hours.

Most of the "dish soaps" have high alkalinity types of "degreasers", i.e. ammonia (notorious for darkening brass)----I don't recognize "lemishine", but I assume that it's a citrus based cleaner; as such the citrus acids may act to transport brass between components of different alloy make ups (a plating effect in a slightly acidic bath), leaving some discoloration, especially in the presence of the ammonia from the Dawn detergent. If you are concerned about coloration or tarnishing, try a singular rinsing with a straight citrus based cleaner in the tumbling process, as opposed to a mixed "homebrew". Phosphoric acid (found in driveway cleaners--and in Hornady's ultra sonic case cleaner solution) does a marvelous job in a short (10 to 20 mins) time. Anything that chemically cleans brass, actually etches slightly and will promote rapid tarnishing in the future; whereas, regular dry tumbling with non-aggressive media, i.e. corncob or walnut, imparts a burnishing and polishing effect, thus somewhat closing the pores of the brass and promoting a longer lasting resistance to tarnish and discoloration. I've gotten older, I'm in a hurry to clean nowadays--I use the Hornady's heated to 140* F and aggitate for 15 minutes and I'm done.----The longer brass sits after shooting and before cleaning, the more the tarnish and burning adhere to the brass. Some cases I've not cleaned for a year take 2-3 cycles to clean---while cases I shot yesterday clean in 10 mins or less (chemically). I still tumble to keep cases "smoothed" a bit if it's not something with a high turnover rate. Hope this helps.

 

[mtang45]

It is dezincification of the brass. There are a lot of factors, and frankly I am not in the mood to argue with idiots who say it can't happen today. There are a few threads about it on BEnos. Suffice it to say, if you see the pink to brown coloration, yes you can remove that layer, but the brass now has been weakened. Pistol brass, usually not a big deal. In rifle brass, you might gets cracks and chamber damage, but rarely a casehead separation. There are several internet sources related to dezincification of brass.'

If you would like more info, please send me a PM as I have seen how these threads end up in the past.

If what you state is true, then in the interest of safety to your fellow shooters, please post some links to additional information.

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