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What About the People That Recorded the Murder?
- Thread starter DustBun
- Start date
No doubt it's possible some might be crying wolf, but excited delirium is a real condition. It can lead to real or perceived lack of breathe.
Well I don't I'm just n old marine who God saw fit to let live long enuff to retire.by the way that was just the kind. Of statement that makes us all feel so much better about da police.
Against my own judgement, I will reply just to say that I don't deal in what ifs. If your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle.
BTW, I see you got schooled by someone who IS a cop...…
Some days I think it's great to be a human. Other days...like when I see someone start a thread like this....I really get my Ron Pearlman on.
Kinda get that but this is a pritty nice dirt ball for the most part. all good things come with a effort to find ,enjoy responsibly and protect as best we can
Ask yourself how you would feel if some citizen did the same to you till they determined you were actually a police officer and not an impostor after some troublemaker told them you were a impostor cop going around killing people (A very real possibility at least in Canada it seems)
Would you be all like... no problem glad we got that sorted out everyone have a good day? Or would you and your buddies be all about wanting charges, payback, a beat down etc on the person who had a gun held to your face?
Just remember, you point a gun at my face you have just threatened to murder me (at least by the same laws that apply to me). Don't think that will ever be forgotten.
Were any charges filed against the person who made the false complaint? Probably not.
Well thanks bud for the input. If an average homeowner had a burglar pinned down I would not advise them to let the guy up and be comfortable, then hope for the best if the guy starts struggling again.
At the end of the day we are all bullshitters on an internet forum - easy to be the internet judge with a shitty phone cam video as evidence when you weren't the one in the shoes and hindsight is 20/20.
I get the deescalation.
Yes, literally. Literally claiming "I can't breathe" and crying wolf is not unheard of.
I will admit I am probably getting a little wrong playing devil's advocate and justifying the death of a career criminal druggie, but there are long term effects of some of these "Police Reform" demands coming out and incriminating anyone who ever had any correlation to that one incident. No one is going to want to be a cop and everyone is going to want to be a criminal.
And I’ve been pulled over at gunpoint while in a marked unit and in uniform in the exact scenario you mentioned.
It ended exactly with “I get it man. Shit happens, have a good day.”
It ended exactly with “I get it man. Shit happens, have a good day.”
here is the problem with that position. At one point several minutes into floyd on the ground knee to neck, he said I can’t breath.
people around pleaded for the officer toget off his neck. He did not.
Floyd then went quiet and motionless. One of the other officers checked his pulse and said I don’t find one.
the officer still did not get off his neck. Another 2 minutes passed with him on his neck. 2 minutes after an officer saidI can’t find a pulse and the guy who was talking who was complaining of discomfort lay silent and motionless he still had pressure on his neck.
at the very very least that officer checking the pulse finding nothing but a limp body would have forcefully thrown the officer off him to render aid. But that didn’t happen.
I guy kneeled on a piece of meat not a person. So he stayed there.
Average homeowner doesnt have cuffs and if someone decides to come into my home and struggle Im in fear for my life.
Story not too long ago of homeowner that caught a guy in daughters bedroom MA beat the crap out of him and pinned him until police arrival. Had he diedof positional aspyxiation or keeping knee on neck I doubt there would have been trouble.
The guy was found to be a truck driver left his rig in nearby truck stop and came to a random house.
Later discovered he was a serial killer with bodies up/down eastern seaboard.
Hunting Humans: Serial Killer Stalks Homes Along Highways
The FBI now suspects there are hundreds of killers who may have gone on killing sprees, and gone undetected, along the nation's interstates.
abcnews.go.com
If the homeowner did reasonably secure the person to end that "fear for life" situation and than took a sledge hammer to the guy they would be in trouble.
Perhaps I worded it wrong based on my personal biases from reading a bit too much news.
I appreciate your reply and mentioning how things went down in your experience.
Fuck that. It's not a rule, or a law, it's bullshit.
The idea that in the real world every criminal just gives up the moment they have cuffs on is laughably fucking stupid. I've been hurt worse by people in cuffs than those without, which should say something about their level of commitment in resisting arrest.
It's frowned on because it "looks bad" to hit somebody whose restrained. Know what else looks bad? Bleeding bite wounds on a cop.
If they're restrained AND cooperative, it's over, if they're still fighting then it ain't over yet and just because they're in cuffs doesn't mean it's over or you can't be hurt, or worse.
Stop repeating bullshit talking points.
LE have slightly different rules and with good reason. Otherwise, you have what you see in the streets.....chaos.
If me pointing my gun at someone (or for any LE doing so) was the same as non LE pointing their gun, there would be either A a lot of dead LE or B a lot of LE not engaging for fear of prosecution. Which is why qualified immunity is so important. Sure, a few bad cops don’t go to jail, but 99% of the rest of the LE world is taken care of properly.
Which is similar to the presumption of innocence by the courts. Sure, a lot of bad people get away, but there are much less innocent people in jail than guilty who don’t go to jail. Which is the point.
As far as charging for false report, that’s incredibly hard as the person will always say “I guess I was wrong.” Typically false reports need something else to show they had a reason for the false report. And for most LE if they know they can’t prove it, they know their time is better spent moving on and looking for something better.
95% of the people we come into contact with are very good people. 5% are shitbags.
But, the moment I don’t treat 100% like the 5% (within reason, not using excessive force and such), is the day I probably won’t go home. Pointing your weapon at someone (as long as you can articulate why) is the same as pointing your finger at them....legally speaking.
You have no idea wtf you are talking about.
At times, there have been instances of cloned vehicles used for smuggling and such.
Again, you are well out of your depth here. But LE is always hiring......you can probably change the system.
Pointing your weapon is the same as your finger !!!! Are you sure that's what you want to go with.do. you really feel that way !you actually feel it's ok to point a firearm like your finger. Well ok. It's hard to hear a proclaimed officer say shit like you have and keep my or anyone's support .
Legally speaking yes. If a police officer points his weapon at you, it is NOT a use of force.
You need to move on.
Average homeowner doesnt have cuffs and if someone decides to come into my home and struggle Im in fear for my life.
Story not too long ago of homeowner that caught a guy in daughters bedroom MA beat the crap out of him and pinned him until police arrival. Had he diedof positional aspyxiation or keeping knee on neck I doubt there would have been trouble.
The guy was found to be a truck driver left his rig in nearby truck stop and came to a random house.
Later discovered he was a serial killer with bodies up/down eastern seaboard.
Hunting Humans: Serial Killer Stalks Homes Along Highways
The FBI now suspects there are hundreds of killers who may have gone on killing sprees, and gone undetected, along the nation's interstates.
If the homeowner did reasonably secure the person to end that "fear for life" situation and than took a sledge hammer to the guy they would be in trouble.
Interesting story. Is there an expectation for civilians to "ease up" when an intruder appears to "ease up"? Sounds like the safe bet is to not bother securing someone - I would not be comfortable holding an intruder's hand while it is unknown if there are other visitors. Yes, I live in a castle doctrine state.
Appears we have one person who was a fuckup on the job, and another who was a repeat fuckup on drugs. Everyone is siding with the fuckup on drugs and trying to find more blame to dish out. If George had killed Chauvin at any point during the altercation it would be just another day in Minneapolis.
"One dynamic that the typical reasonable person is unequipped for understanding in police encounters is that every confrontation has a firearm involved."
I didn't get this until I was in my early 30's and ended up in Orlando. THEN, it became obvious why. Add to that classes for permit, other shooting classes all taught by either LE or military (off-duty/retired) and it became obvious to me why police are 95% of the time amped-up when they make a traffic stop - especially for people who illegally tint their windows.
You shouldnt be amped up unless there is something else about the stop to cause you to be amped up....and if there is call for backup.
The cop is not talking about concern of "the possibility" someone "may have" a gun.
The cop knows for a fact THEY have a gun.
As well somone with bad intent is pretty sure they know where to get one IF they can win the fight and thing is most cops are not MMA guys.
If two unarmed people get in a fight and one loses consciousness than typically its end of fight, unconscious guy wakes up, life goes on.
If an armed cop gets in a fight and feels he is getting into a situation he may lose the ability to control the weapon you have entered the use of deadly force zone.
The lay person only thinks "Oh well the guy was unarmed, why did you have to shoot him?" the answer is to prevent him from being armed.
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Easy to B/S the fans, the players, not so much. Based upon your own words why are you just on the side lines, go ahead an get into the game then report back on, how the view is from inside.
I think we're on a different wavelength quite by accident.
Amped up is the wrong term. And I wasn't saying I was amped-up by any means (maybe that's what I typed with my poor southern education English). Sorry. I guess my point was to say, I understand ANY car pulled over represents a potential threat and as such LE has to be prepared for the worst situation. Walking up to a stranger's car I would imagine always causes LE to become guarded. I know if somebody I don't know stops on the street beside me and I see the window come down, I go into a different mode since they are strangers. It's not like driving up to your friend and seeing what's up.
I'll allude to a previous statement I made on another thread. I was pulled over about a year ago now, for 77 in a 70. I pulled immediately over, put the SUV in the grass, way off shoulder, rolled window down and had hands on wheel before the trooper even managed to get on the highway or about the time was getting to the grass. I could not have been 1/8 of a mile past where he was parked by the time I stopped. I kept my head looking forward, no movement, nothing until I couldn't figure out where he was (having seen him get out). Then he knocked on my passenger window. All good. No incident. I doubt he was on super high alert.
Now, had I led him on a mile long pursuit in a car with blacked out windows, I'm sure that would be different. That's what I was trying to impart - sorry if it got misconstrued. I just know I would not want to do that job of walking up to a car that one cannot see into (especially at night) and have utmost respect for those that do.
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Heard a story about an incident where a woman called 911 saying someone had just kidnapped their child while she was at the court house and she was following and needed police.
Party stayed on the line giving location of vehicle, everything in radio area responding with a hard on.
Motor vehicle stop is made and cop recognizes this vehicle looks like an unmarked.
Party still claiming child was kidnapped.
How do you approach that car? Put total trust in your belief "Its just a cop".
I heard the cop approached very carefully with gun at side while ordering occupants to keep their hands on the dash.
Once at the door a near in tears ICE agent explained they just served a deportation warrant before the party could get into the court house because that particular state has a tendency to sneak such people out back doors and such to prevent ICE doing their job.
The "child" ended up being an adult fiance of the caller.
But you would have figured that out beforehand.
I am on the sidelines because this thread went someplace else. I stated what I did in the initial post. After some feedback I made the post here. There was no response to it because the thread had already gone down a different path talking about LE techniques. That wasn't my point, I have no knowledge in LE methods so I had no input. I wasn't trying to B/S anyone. In fact I apologized for even bringing this up.
Any cop that approaches each and every stop at high alert would be a basket case in short order.
Any cop that approaches every stop nonchalantly is going to get his ass handed to him.
They should have balance.
One of my own life stories now......
When I ws in high school I worked stocking shelves in a grocery store. Bunch of us bought some realistic cap guns and would hunt each other in the aisles and have cap gun fights.
I kept my cap gun in the glove box of my inline 6, baby blue 1976 Plymouth Volare kind of like this one.....
except mine had silver tape covering the top of the front fenders where rust had chewed holes.
While at a USMC poolee meeting earlier in the week I got my sweet ride stuck on an icy incline and the Recruiter SSGT towed me out with his Southern Man full size 4WD pickup. In setting the chain hook he bent my license plate obscuring the registration sticker.
Later in the week Im driving and the blue lights come on. Two man car so I have an officer at the drivers side and passenger side. Drivers side asks for license and registration. License provided reach over to glove box to get registration and cap gun slides on to glove box door.
"GUN!" and I hear a bang on my side window expecting it to explode but looking over all I see is the barrel of a service revolver.
I yell its a cap gun. Guy at passenger confirms its a cap gun.
Stop ends I am told not to have the cap gun in the car anymore and we all go change our underwear.
I hold no Ill will or bad feelings toward those cops.
Yeah, I would NOT get physical in that situation... That is stupid to even think about. Either way it is a lose lose situation. Jump in like an idiot and you will get your ass handed to you. Even if you and a couple of friends decide that the boog has begun, deploy "overwhelming force" and manage to stop these officers, a nationwide manhunt will be launched for you and you WILL be facing some serious charges, depending on what injuries you inflicted on the officers. No bueno. Physical force is stupid to even consider.
HOWEVER, if I was the guy recording, I would not have called Chauvin a bum over and over again like a broken record. I would have told him "sir, you know that you are being recorded to the fullest, and for what you are doing right now, you WILL be fired and face criminal charges, and you WILL lose your pension, your right to own firearms, your dental and medical insurance, and possibly get doxxed too because your big stupid smilie face is all over YouTube right this minute"...
I think THAT will put more fear into him than anything else anyone can do...
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I dont know, I feel like if you said that it would make a guy like chauvin stay on even longer. Either way we'll never know.
One of my coworkers in the past was about to get into a physical fight with another truck driver team over some really stupid shit... He actually whipped out a case cutter and was flexing at the other guys. I had a hard time holding him back, I mean this kid was REALLY itching to go at them, until I yelled in his face "DO YOU WANT TO FUCKING LOSE YOUR JOB? THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING RIGHT NOW! IS IT WORTH IT?" That got him to calm the fuck down good. His fiance had just given birth to their son and he needed the job more than ever. It paid good and the hours were good. Those words switched off whatever devil that was gearing him up and go forward with the retardation...
Of course, you are correct, it really depends on various factors. For all we know, Chauvin may be a fucking serial killer and in another two weeks we may be watching them rip his house apart and bring out long decomposed bodies like they did in the John Wayne Gacy case... Who knows?
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