What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

[taseal]

In a lot of these threads I see people say you want the bullet just to be "touching" the lands.

I don't know what the lands are, and how will I know when it's just touching the lands? Will I feel something when I put the bullet in? No idea...

Thanks!

 

[notquiteright]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

ANY tutorial from the interwebz to the public library has copious references to barrel internal nomenclature. In the time it took you to come here and ask you would have found the answer.

I was a grunt back in the day, PLEASE try and up your game, you are making the rest of us look bad!

Recon it yourself, dont sit back on your 4th point of contact like some brass hat.

 

[redbullitt]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

Simply where the grooves start in the barrel.

Be sure to work up the loads that way, otherwise you can have pressure issues.

If the bullet is just touching them, then no you should not feel anything. If you are feeling something, then you are jamming into the lands.

An easy way to find out a length that touches them is to use the hornady unit. Another way is to sharpie the bullet and chamber it. Find the length that you see marks on the ink and shorten up gradually on the length till you do not. That would get you pretty close.

That said, closer is not always better. Some rifle/bullet/charge combos like a little jump. Bullets like the SMK are ok with jump, and sometimes even shoot better that way. Some of my best groups have been shot with mag length rounds. VLDs on the other hand do not; they (in my experience) like to be very close to the lands.

 

[taseal]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ANY tutorial from the interwebz to the public library has copious references to barrel internal nomenclature. In the time it took you to come here and ask you would have found the answer.

I was a grunt back in the day, PLEASE try and up your game, you are making the rest of us look bad!

Recon it yourself, dont sit back on your 4th point of contact like some brass hat. </div></div>

Lol! I didnt know they taught anything besides cleaning the damn star chamber and making sure your barrel was clean!

Perhaps back in the day they tight what the lands were, the twist rates and all that fun shit lol.

Not even in DM school did we learn that. Perhaps sniper school?

And I'm on the iPad. So much easier to ask on the forums. Lol

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

i see people saying "i read on this one thread" well whats a thread? I dont get it.


read this my young nasty girl

http://www.6mmbr.com/catalog/item/1433308/977259.htm

P.S. dont take offense

 

[taseal]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

Great link. Thanks.

No offense, as long as I get what I need, it's all good.

 

[taseal]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

With the sharpie method, will it make enough of a mark to see it? And I want the marks on the bullet to be either none (not touching) or barely touching at the front correct?

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the sharpie method, will it make enough of a mark to see it? And I want the marks on the bullet to be either none (not touching) or barely touching at the front correct? </div></div>

If you seat the bullet out long enough (like OAL=3.000) your chamber will push the the bullet into the unpowdered, unprimed case.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the sharpie method, will it make enough of a mark to see it? And I want the marks on the bullet to be either none (not touching) or barely touching at the front correct?</div></div>

what do you mean by "at the front"? the bullet is gonna come in contact with the lands at the Ogive

 

[CardiacKid]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

Don't mean to offend you, but if you're asking what the lands are you're probably shooting a factory gun right? (IE straight off the shelf at whatever store). If it's a run of the mill Remington 700, chances are you're not going to be able to touch the lands because they're pretty far out to err on the side of safety and avoid dangerous pressure possibilities. If you try to load touching the lands, your bullet will be barely seated. My 700P is cut this way anyway. I don't have experience with any other manufacturers but I'm sure they're similar.

 

[taseal]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CardiacKid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't mean to offend you, but if you're asking what the lands are you're probably shooting a factory gun right? (IE straight off the shelf at whatever store). If it's a run of the mill Remington 700, chances are you're not going to be able to touch the lands because they're pretty far out to err on the side of safety and avoid dangerous pressure possibilities. If you try to load touching the lands, your bullet will be barely seated. My 700P is cut this way anyway. I don't have experience with any other manufacturers but I'm sure they're similar. </div></div>

Yes, it is a stock action/barrel. I figured I wear out this barrel before I get that dome

 

[turbo54]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

I like to use the guess/check method, maybe im cheap.

I take a full length sized case, and ensure it will drop into the chamber, and then fall right out if I tip the barrel up. I use my finger to bounce the case off the shoulder in the chamber. Then I begin to seat a bullet, leaving the bullet hanging out. Bunch. I perform a test-fit in the chamber. If you push lightly, and the cartridge (no primer or powder) "sticks" in the chamber, its because the bullet has been slightly jammed into the rifling. Use a plastic rod to pop the cartridge out of the chamber, seat the bullet .010" more, and test fit again. When you get get to the point where the cartridge will bounce off the shoulder of the chamber and not stick, you know you're within .010". Pull the bullet back out a bit, readjust your Seater back out .009", and repeat the test fit. This method will reveal the bullet position needed to be on the lands accurate to .001". If you have a Seater with micrometer, make nite of the setting for that kind of bullet...draw a picture. If you don't have a mic, keep that dummy cartridge as a master, and label it as such.

Make sure you understand that each different kind of bullet will need to be checked this way.

 

[taseal]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

Lots of diff ways of doing this.

So the trick is to have the ogive make contact eh?

 

[Johnny Lately]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

Spend the money and get the Hornady gauge. I bought one and haven't regretted it. It's money well spent.

 

[Johnny Lately]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

Good info here:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1705470&page=1

 

[taseal]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

Johnny, I might. I'm a fan of gauges. I try to stay away from guesswork. An inexpensive tool that will make a diff is something I like. I watched a vid on how it's used and it seems easy.

The the brass in the tool, put a bullet in the brass, stick it in the chamber all the way and push on the plastic rod lightly until the bullet stops going forward, lock the plastic rod in place, and put the bullet with the tool in a comparator and measure oal.

If you push on the rod too much, you might jam the bullet in the lands, so gotta keep it light. Sounded easy enough. Hope it's easy done as said. Lol

And I do have a stock barrel/action so hopefully I can make it work still

 

[Longguns]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Johnny Lately</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Spend the money and get the Hornady gauge. I bought one and haven't regretted it. It's money well spent. </div></div>
+1 on what he said. Very easy tool to use.

 

[turbo54]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

Johnny, I might. I'm a fan of gauges. I try to stay away from guesswork. An inexpensive tool that will make a diff is something I like. I watched a vid on how it's used and it seems easy.

The the brass in the tool, put a bullet in the brass, stick it in the chamber all the way and push on the plastic rod lightly until the bullet stops going forward, lock the plastic rod in place, and put the bullet with the tool in a comparator and measure oal.

If you push on the rod too much, you might jam the bullet in the lands, so gotta keep it light. Sounded easy enough. Hope it's easy done as said. Lol

And I do have a stock barrel/action so hopefully I can make it work still [/
quote]

Im slightly insulted. There ARE many ways to do it and I don't claim mine is the only OR best way to do it - but it is NOT guesswork in regards to the answer/solution you get.

I've tried methods where you use the rifling to push the bullet into the case, and have never been able to get the same answer multiple times in a row.

 

[taseal]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

Turbo! It wasn't directed at you pal! It's like when people say when a screw is hand tight, it's 10-15 in/lb. I like to be exactly at 12.

Im sure your way works too, remember I didn't even know what lands were until about 5 hours ago! If it works for you, then it is gtg!

Don't get insulted here man. They're making fun of me cuz I'm a nasty girl!

 

[RTO]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

Stick your finger all the way up the chamber towards the muzzle. Now you are touching the lands.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

"What are lands and how do I just "touch" them"

Lands are the rifllng. Seating bullets to just touch them is a vastly over rated Bench Rest loading techinque that mostly applies to specalised custom rifles with very special ammo; it has little value to those of us using common rifles and common ammo.

 

[harleymech]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

great info bros u can increase preasures that u dont want if seated tooo deep touch lands a back off 10 thou, some bullet manufac such-as Barnes they do better with a little bullet jump.

 

[taseal]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

wow guys...

so it's 2330 EST. and it just hit me.

what lands are...

I can't belive it didn't come to me until now.

lands, grooves... polygonal barrels...

I guess I was (as usual) thinking too hard and I was thinking that it's something that's related to the chamber of the barrel. like some part that is just before the rifling starts.

embarassing.

oh well, at least I learned about that hornady OAL gauge from posting this thread.

lol

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

You know you could have more fun at work by putting a retard magnet above the front door of your CP. I expected this thread to be written by a 13 yr old who's never heard of google. Some people have just gotten too nice around here. You should had at least a few more smart ass remarks before your question was answered. I would have explained it like this. Picture the inside of your barrel laid out flat, it would look something like this _--_--_ the tall portions are the lands the low portions are the grooves.

 

[taseal]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know you could have more fun at work by putting a retard magnet above the front door of your CP. I expected this thread to be written by a 13 yr old who's never heard of google. Some people have just gotten too nice around here. You should had at least a few more smart ass remarks before your question was answered. I would have explained it like this. Picture the inside of your barrel laid out flat, it would look something like this _--_--_ the tall portions are the lands the low portions are the grooves. </div></div>

you might need a new barrel if your barrel's inside looks like _--_--_


lol

 

[jack simpson]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like to use the guess/check method, maybe im cheap.

I take a full length sized case, and ensure it will drop into the chamber, and then fall right out if I tip the barrel up. I use my finger to bounce the case off the shoulder in the chamber. Then I begin to seat a bullet, leaving the bullet hanging out. Bunch. I perform a test-fit in the chamber. If you push lightly, and the cartridge (no primer or powder) "sticks" in the chamber, its because the bullet has been slightly jammed into the rifling. Use a plastic rod to pop the cartridge out of the chamber, seat the bullet .010" more, and test fit again. When you get get to the point where the cartridge will bounce off the shoulder of the chamber and not stick, you know you're within .010". Pull the bullet back out a bit, readjust your Seater back out .009", and repeat the test fit. This method will reveal the bullet position needed to be on the lands accurate to .001". If you have a Seater with micrometer, make nite of the setting for that kind of bullet...draw a picture. If you don't have a mic, keep that dummy cartridge as a master, and label it as such.

Make sure you understand that each different kind of bullet will need to be checked this way. </div></div>

I have used something similar to this several times, that is if the magazine length will allow me to seat it out that far, and have gotten sub moa groups from factory rifles, many times 1/2 moa groups.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

you could also look at it like your bullet is playing the "just the tip" game with your barrel "just the tip, just to see how it feels"

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

Turbo I am with you. I used to shoot 1KBR and had some of the finest guages and comparators money could buy. Guess what...I don't own any of that poofery anymore..sold it all. I gave up shooting that requires me to be a lab geek. Oh that doesn't mean I can't shoot or load some damn fine ammo but I can figure my distance to the lands just as easy and accurate using my method.
Here is my method. Take a slitting saw and slit the neck down to the neck shoulder juction on a resized case. A bullet should now slide easily in the neck but still have enough tension to stay put, not enough to be grabbed by the lands though. Put the bullet in the case push into the chamber too the shoulder and pull it out. Measure with a Sinclair comparator and you are there.

 

[patriotoutlaw]

Re: What are lands and how do I just "touch" them

Read your reloading manuals front to back, every one. When you get done, read em over....